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How to Help Neighbors Whose Son Was Arrested?

pjrose

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Lots of adrenaline at the time of the incident, but punching someone you don't know cause they yell at you for stealing... don't understand but have never been in such a spot.

The adoption question could be a part of what is throwing the young man off balance emotionally.

I can understand the anger in a fight or flight situation. He's terrified, being screamed at, and is beyond thinking rationally.

No idea if he's off balance emotionally - sounds like the current situation is the only issue - but factors such as genetic background and prenatal care, generally unknown in an adoption, do come into play.

Maybe they can get him probation with anger management classes. They do need a good lawyer.
Liz

The courts and jails are overloaded, and plea bargaining is very common. A good lawyer could try to get this down to Liz's suggestion, perhaps guilty to petty theft and drop the other charges, with the probation and classes, and perhaps a fine and community service as well, as the sentence. It would help if he were contrite, wrote serious letters of apology, and so forth.
 

e.bram

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The only way to keeo society safe is to keep this guy(and others like him) in jail or a mental institution. Break someones nose because he yelled at you for stealing from them is provocation? I do not understand?
 

bogey21

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.....drop the other charges, with the probation and classes, and perhaps a fine and community service as well, as the sentence. It would help if he were contrite, wrote serious letters of apology, and so forth.

For his own good he needs a little jail time, maybe 30 days. It will do him wonders. Take it from one who has walked the walk. Probation, classes, a fine (parent's pay?), and/or community service just don't send the right message.

George
 

pjrose

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For his own good he needs a little jail time, maybe 30 days. It will do him wonders. Take it from one who has walked the walk. Probation, classes, a fine (parent's pay?), and/or community service just don't send the right message.

George

I disagree - if this is a first time offense and there has been no other trouble, I can't see jail time for panicking and losing his temper. Not only can jail backfire (as a scared straight kind of thing), having that on his permanent record seems too much for a stupid impulsive mistake. Far worse actions have gotten far less punishment - just think of all the habitual criminals with probation after probation after probation.

Of course HE should pay the fine - and not from his allowance, either.

I hope the OP will keep us posted with what happens!
 

e.bram

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pjrose: Maybe he will break your nose(or worse) next time! This person is a menace that BELONGS OFF THE STREET.
 

Liz Wolf-Spada

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Well, he certainly won't be "off the streets" forever, so to my mind, even if he does have a short jail time, he still needs anger management mandated by the court, evaluation for impulse control problems and possibly counseling as well as restitution and community service.
Liz
 

nightnurse613

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I resisted the temptation previously to respond but some of the most recent comments have rankled my ire. POLICE have the authority and responsibility to arrest people (yes, I know about citizen's arrest). I would feel very defensive if someone in civilian clothes started grabbing and restraining me-especially if I were being compliant. Of course, I have seen 220 pound police officers tackle people who are just standing there, shove their face into the ground with their knee in their back and charge them with resisting arrest when they wipe their bloody nose instead of putting their hands behind their back. I have been the subject of automobile hit and runs by teenagers. While I am now too old and fat doesn't mean that, in a moment of panic when the blood is flowing to the legs and adrenaline is pumping, I wouldn't want to escape by whatever means. We practice fire drills at work in an effort to train ourselves what to do during an actual fire instead of just panicking and trampling each other. I doubt this kid thought about what he would do if caught. I am sure ALL of us have done things that we would do differently if given the chance to do it over. :shrug:
 

krissydee

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Have we thought about the people who were punched in the face for doing their job? Also the good Samaritan got hit as well? (It hasn't been specified if this was a man or a woman yet)

What if that was your mom or wife trying to help and got punched in the face by the kid? Just think about it... What if your wife/sister/mom/daughter came home with a broken nose because of this, how would you feel then?

Also for the people who got hit, it could be a traumatic experience in their lives. Some people can just shrug it off but some can't and it affects them deeply. What if they suffer anxiety because of this incident? What if they can't walk alone at night anymore or become nervous because of this? This type of incident can affect peoples lives. What if that good Samaritan see's another crime being committed and wants to step in but this incident made them afraid to.

To the OP, you can only be there for them... they're probably sick of hearing about it, tired of talking and thinking about it... so I would try to not bring it up and do normal things to take their minds off it. If they want to talk, they will talk to you... if not, they might just want some normalcy.
 

Phill12

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I would say the best action is stay out of it!

If your good friends then don't get in their way and maybe cause them more problems.

If good friends just let them know your there for them if they want and leave it at that!

Sometimes less said is better! :rolleyes:


PHIL
 

Big Matt

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I think that you are missing the series of events.

Goes into a store to steal merchandise.

Get's caught.

Flees the scene.

Assaults the people trying to detain him and get the goods back.

None of this sounds like something done in a panic situation. It does sound like stupidity, or arrogance, or maybe it was drug/alcohol induced.

If I were the judge, I wouldn't let him slide at all.

I disagree - if this is a first time offense and there has been no other trouble, I can't see jail time for panicking and losing his temper. Not only can jail backfire (as a scared straight kind of thing), having that on his permanent record seems too much for a stupid impulsive mistake. Far worse actions have gotten far less punishment - just think of all the habitual criminals with probation after probation after probation.

Of course HE should pay the fine - and not from his allowance, either.

I hope the OP will keep us posted with what happens!
 

nightnurse613

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Of course, you may be right Big Matt! We only have the side of the story that the OP had. We don't KNOW ANYTHING about this young man. I have three sons and they are the apple of my eye. COULD they do anything like this? YES! I thank God everyday that they haven't and pray every day that they might have the sense God gave a mule. What if this happened to YOUR 19 year old today? What if it happened to mine? Heaven forbid. Just how much punishment is appropriate for someone who steals some T-Shirts? Too bad the store security didn't just shoot him in the back, eh?:shrug:
 

Big Matt

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I have a teenage son, and if he robbed a store, and assaulted the clerk and a bystander, I would certainly expect him to be prosecuted. What if it was a gang banger? Would you have the same reaction? I didn't think so.

Now having said that, I would also fight as hard as I could to get him off with as little punishment as possible if it were my son. That's how the legal system works, and that's what I would expect the OP to do.

I think your post about the security shooting him is way out of line.

What if this happened to YOUR 19 year old today? What if it happened to mine? Heaven forbid. Just how much punishment is appropriate for someone who steals some T-Shirts? Too bad the store security didn't just shoot him in the back, eh?:shrug:
 

Liz Wolf-Spada

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People who get out of jail don't necessarily have the skills to keep impulses in check. And one hardly goes to jail for life for hitting someone or shoplifting. So, he won't be off the streets forever even if he does go to jail. I still think that anger management, probation, restitution and community service would be a better choice here, plus much cheaper for the taxpayers.
Liz
 

Darlene

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:ignore: First, the bystander that helped was a man. He did not punch a women or girl. There was another bystander that offered to pay for the t-shirts. The store employee was enraged, and screaming even at this person, and said he would not allow him to pay for the shirts because this kid had ruined his life, and was going to jail. If you have a teenager, you realize that most don't plan beyond the next 5 minutes. I think he did a completely stupid thing. He went into the store, saw the shirts, didn't have any money, and decided to try something stupid. Once he was caught, he became extremely upset, realizing what he had done. I don's think he thought at all about the possible consequences of his actions if he was caught. When the store employee was so out of control, yelling and screaming at him, telling him he had ruined his life...his panic took him, and he punched him. From what I heard, the employee was a little out of control, too. In a situation like this, I think it is important for everyone to stay level headed and calm. The young man knew he would be kicked out of school (honor code violation), and since he had been alienating his parents who adopted him, he probably wondered what would happen to him. There were no drugs or alcohol involved. To my knowledge, he has never done anything like this or been involved with drugs and alcohol. Most kids here have a sort of reverse peer pressure. There is a pressure to be perfect all the time. I hate to say it, but we have one of the highest suicide rates in the nation here in SLC for males 18-24. When the police found this young man, he was so upset, he could not talk, and was shaking uncontrollable. I do not know if he contacted his biological mom, but I do know that his biological father was contacted when he was in jail. His biological father did not come. His parents who adopted him did come. They came the night he was arrested, but did not have the money to bail him out. They came back the next morning with a bondsman and did. He is back in school temporarily until the hearing in December. No matter what happens, he will not be allowed back to college next semester. I would hope that this young man, first off, gets counseling. I think that he has some unresolved issues about being adopted that he has not addressed (probably because the focus has always been on his autistic sister). I think he needs anger management classes, too. I hope he will be able to come home, be under his parent’s supervision, and get a job to pay of the debt. And lastly, I think community service would be appropriate. If this had been only about shoplifting he would have to pay a fine of $500, and do community service. I think the whole situation escalated because it was handled poorly. I really don't think punching the employee means this young man is a threat to society, and that jail time would be the lesson you would want him to learn. There are other ways of helping him learn from a bad decision that are more instructive. Of course, this is not up to me to decide, and I trust the court system (and judges) to make the appropriate decision in this case.
As a side story, this summer some younger kids (11, 13, and 16) in the neighborhood rode their golf cart down to the grocery store, and shoplifted some candy. The store called the police, and not only did they get caught for stealing the candy, but sited for riding their golf cart on the sidewalk. These kids totally got off with little or no consequence because of who their parents are, and more importantly who there grandfather is. There may have even been some BASKETBALL tickets involved. There have been numerous problems with these kids in the neighborhood for years and complaining to their parents has little or no consequence. They have stolen things out of my yard, which I have gone over to their house and retrieved. My son caught them climbing on our roof. We think they thought no one was home, and they were going to climb in an upstairs window. I have caught the youngest one out with steak knives playing, and shooting his own dog with his air soft gun. I tried to explain that he was hurting the dog. He told me the dog didn't have any feelings. When he was 8, he jumped on the little girl across the street, and started choking her. He was at the community pool with a man's wallet stuffed full of money ($100 +++) that he said "his grandfather gave him". If you say anything to him, you can be sure he will do something to you. I even found my windshield broken, but I could not prove he did it. There were numerous homes vandalized in the neighborhood that these kid where seen "playing". His parents merely respond, "boys will be boys". They are too busy to keep track of him, and he is unsupervised most of the time. I have told his parent’s unequivocally that I do not want him in my yard anymore. I will not tolerate anymore of his "pranks". I will pursue legal action if necessary. I tell you this because this is the kid that worries and scares me. He will most likely grow up, and because there has never been a consequence to his actions, he will continue to make bad choices and reek havoc on other people. There will probably be lots of out of court settlements to hide his malicious behavior. This is in sharp contrast to the young man above who has never done anything like this before, has been a good student, has continually been involved in service projects, and has parents there to love and discipline him. I know which young men will turn out to be the real menace.
In my own defense, I am not a mean or strict person either. I am actually quite tenderhearted when it comes to kids. In the summer, I keep pop sickles in my garage freezer all the time, which I give to the neighborhood kids. I make sure I know all the kids in the neighborhood by name, and something that is important to them. When I pick up my daughter, I am quick to offer a ride home to the other kids. I always buy lemonade at the kid’s stands (I don't always drink it.) I tell you this not to make myself look good, but because I don't want you to think I am quick to judge a kid to be good or bad. :rolleyes:
 

stmartinfan

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What researchers are realizing now is that many kids' brains don't mature until well into their 20s. That means that often the "emotional" part of the brain, rather than the rational part, will control how they act. And that's especially true in times of impluse and stress. What kicks in is the "flight or fight" part of the brain that means they react almost instinctively to the situation when they feel under attack, rather than the part the allows them to think rationally about the appropriate way to react, not to fight back, etc.

Of course, lots of kids do mature more early and act responsibly. But not all. I expect that court decisions that allow kids to have a more lenient punishment the first time, and then get some additional help, rather than jail time, can help them grow up to be responsible adults not saddled with a record that permanently damages their future.

As an adoptive parent, I also see often the additional stress that kids who are struggling with feelings of loss and abandonment have. And these are emotions that can happen at any age, but are often strongest during teen years, and occur regardless of how good their adoptive home may be.

Are there teens who are hardened criminals who need to be locked up for everyone's protection? Of course. But it hardly seems that the person in this situation fits that description.

To the question about what a neighbor can do. If I were in that situation, I'd appreciate kind words and offers of help, but not someone who was too persistent if I declined. Concrete help, like a referral to a lawyer who was an expect in these situations, would be greatly appreciated.
 

Big Matt

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Stmartinfan,
I totally agree with your first paragraph. I think back to some of the really stupid things I did at age 23-25 and I wonder where my head was. I think another thing to remember is that you generally don't learn from success. You learn from mistakes and failures. Kids and young adults usually haven't had to deal with a lot of these situations.
 

Nancy

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Outcome

Darlene,

Please let us know the outcome of all of this. People often post things on Tug and then we never know the results.

Thanks
Nancy
 

Darlene

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A few days after it happen, my neighbor talked to me in detail about the situation, the money, the lawyers, and how he and his wife were doing. They are dealing with it the best they can, but seem to have a handle on it. They are surprised, and of course dissapointed. I emphasized how lucky this young man was to have them in his life to stand by him, and that we all have disappointments, and struggles. They joked that I should just keep the lemon bars coming. I have not talked to them about now for about a week. I really don't need a weekly update. I thought that I would wait till next week, and maybe just drop of a card/more lemon bars (just because they will think it funny) to let them know that we are thinking of them.
I do appreciate all the variety of comments that have been made. I have given this a great deal of thought, and it has helped not in suggestions of what I should do, but helped me a great deal in putting this in perspective. I thiink we can learn not just from our own sitution, but the things that have been shared have helped me learn a great deal about myself and my attitudes.
 

JoeWilly

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Darlene,

You sound like a great friend and neighbor. I think you are sincerely trying to help. However, if they have a lawyer, I've heard one of the best things for a family to do while an action is pending, is not discuss it with anyone except their lawyer. I realize and appreciate that you have not shared their names. In the best interest of the family and this boy, perhaps you should consider not posting about this incident until it is resolved.
 

Darlene

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Most of the details of the case that I know are from the police report which is posted online. My main concern was supporting them without offending or hurting their feelings. They really haven't told me anything except they have lawyers and who they are. They are lucky that the court date is in December, and he'll be allowed to stay in school until then. I appreciate all the great advice, and I will let you know the results of the case.
 

Darlene

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I just wanted to give you a quick update on this story. The boys adoptive parents stood by him through all this, bailed him out of jail, and paid for all the court cost and lawyers fees. They got the charges reduced since it was a first offense to a misdeamenor, paid restitution, and he got probation. He then turned around and told his adoptive parents that "it was all their fault in the first place" that he was shoplifting, and that he was tired of "living his life for them." Since then, he has dropped out of college, now lives with his biological aunt (father's sister), and has no contact with his adoptive family, including 4 sisters. He is not working, and basically sits around playing video games. He wants to spend time with his biological father, who has never shown any interest in him. We are all dazed and confused by his behavior. His adoptive parents, who have been there for him since he was a toddler, are very hurt. They keep hoping that he will have a change of heart, and come home.
 

UWSurfer

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This sounds like a young man with some issues he needs to resolve.

Good for the adoptive parents to standby him, even though it may fall under the heading no good deed goes unpunished.

Hopefully the young man will seek counseling or otherwise find the help he needs to deal with his life and issues in his life, as well as those close to him.
 

EAM

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How sad for the adoptive parents.

IMHO, the young man is displaying some of the "stinking thinking" patterns that are often associated with substance abuse, i.e. acting impulsively without considering the consequences, avoiding taking responsibility for one's actions, being self-centered, blaming others, finding someone who will enable him to do as he pleases, etc.

At this point, since the adoptive parents have no contact with him and he is an adult, there is not much that they can do for him. However, there may be things they can do for themselves, such as learning to detach while continuing to love. If substance abuse is or has been a problem, they might benefit from Al-Anon or reading books by Melody Beattie.
 

Autoeng

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This young man suffers from a "sacred wound" of his biological father not being there for him. An adoptive father, for whatever reason, wasn't able to provide him with the male leadership he needed. Perhaps it is because he was a toddler when adopted or perhaps the "love" that the adopted father gave to him was different than the love a biological father would have given him (whether his biological father would have given him that love is beside the point). A child is hardwired to expect that love and nurturing from a biological parent and when they don't receive it they can be wounded forever.

I have this same wound (fatherless since a baby) although I had a step father who loved me (in his own way) and whom I loved very much as well. I did not come to realize that not having a relationship with my father had so many effects on my life until I was ready to admit it to myself that I needed this man. What he couldn't give me I had to forgive him for so that I could forgive myself. It was too late for us to have a relationship (he committed suicide before I came to the realization) but I have forgiven him and myself and work every day to become a better man by exploring and completing the things I feel that we missed out on together.

Men need this relationship with their fathers and fathers need to strive to give it to their sons. We stand on the shoulders of our ancestors and our sons will stand on ours. If we are not there, what foundation do we expect them to have?
 
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