How are the maintenance fees going to be impacted?

[rickandcindy23]

Vistana=Marriott. Same thing, and Marriott increases fees every single year, no skipped years at Willow Ridge. I am selling my Willow Ridge Platinum units. There is no reason to keep them with my SBP and SDO units pulling all of the Marriott exchanges via II and at reduced fees.

 

[controller1]

I would like to see the fees go down a bit based on reduced costs. Also let the landscaping get a little rough instead of daily manicuring.

I disagree on the landscaping. My timeshare stays are my escapes from the rest of the world. I want the landscaping to look like it's Masters week at Augusta National. That is one of the things I enjoy about Vistana's Westin timeshares.

 

[Sea Six]

I disagree on the landscaping. My timeshare stays are my escapes from the rest of the world. I want the landscaping to look like it's Masters week at Augusta National. That is one of the things I enjoy about Vistana's Westin timeshares.

Why does it matter when nobody's there?

 

[pedro47]

This should be an excellent time for resorts to preform their preventive maintain and to refurbish their units. IMO.

I do not feel mf will decrease next year. They will find some reasons to tell TS owners why.. IMO.

 

[pedro47]

Why does it matter when nobody's there?

Have you every heard of first impression.? LOL

 

[DannyTS]

I have looked at the budget of the resorts I own. Unfortunately too many items are bundled together so it is very hard to make any decent estimate for any resort.

 

[controller1]

Why does it matter when nobody's there?

If @pedro47 was only talking about when the resorts are closed I agree but it's unclear that was his intent.

 

[komosatp]

Harborside may be due some sort of rebate from Atlantis for Atlantis' closure. HRA owners pay an annual access fee to Atlantis for the use of Atlantis' amenities, collected as part of their annual dues. Sections 4.2 and 9.2 of the Use and Access agreement says that if Atlantis amenities become unavailable, Atlantis' owners and HRA timeshare association 'shall agree to a proportionate reduction of the Atlantis Facilities Assessment'.

Now there could be another force majure clause (section 9.2 is titled force majure) elsewhere in the governing documents, but I would hope that the lawyers that drafted this agreement considered the easily foreseeable possibility that Atlantis could be closed for an extended period due to hurricanes, and that HRA shouldn't have to pay for Atlantis access during that closure period.

 

[Sea Six]

Have you every heard of first impression.? LOL

Again, what does it matter when nobody's there? Just get it looking perfect again before guests start coming back. No need for daily manicuring when there's nobody there to see it.

 

[Sea Six]

If @pedro47 was only talking about when the resorts are closed I agree but it's unclear that was his intent.

Did you happen to notice the original post in this thread was about maintenance fees being impacted by employee furloughs and resort closures? That was the whole point. His thought was that fees should be reduced because operating expenses are DOWN.

 

[controller1]

Again, what does it matter when nobody's there? Just get it looking perfect again before guests start coming back. No need for daily manicuring when there's nobody there to see it.

Apparently you missed the LOL and the laughing/waving emoji! Take a very deep breath, count to ten and exhale slowly.

 

[LisaRex]

It's hard to predict how hard this pandemic is going to impact the average timeshare owner, but we have to keep in mind that during the last financial crisis (the housing crisis of 2008), timeshare developers soon realized that they were walking a tightrope. With so many distressed owners walking away from their timeshares, and the HOAs' remedy to simply pass along those missing fees to loyal owners, they exposed an economic reality of their system: MFs can never exceed the current rental rate of the lowest season (and the lowest view ), or the whole system risks collapsing.

Why? Because consumer protection laws mandate that MFs are based on square footage, and not season or view. HOAs cannot charge a high season owner more than a low season owner of the same unit. You cannot charge a 1200 sf ocean front owner more than a 1200 sf island view owner. And if they try to raise MFs above the current rental rates of the lowest season/lowest view, those low season owners will walk away. And that risks setting off a vicious cycle of delinquencies = higher MFs = more delinquencies. They even acknowledged this risk in one of their filings.

Since then, they've tried to mitigate this risk by switching to points systems, which allows them to essentially charge higher season and higher view owners more than their fair share. However, a majority of owners are still deeded owners, so IMO, deeded owners are still protected by that economic reality.

Long way to say that my guess is it will not go above low season rental rates. Hawaii owners may see a jump in MFs because rental rates have gone up on the islands, but if your MFs are already at low season rental rates, you'll be fine. Points owners? I imagine they'll be seeing a slight jump as they test the waters to see what they can get away with.

 

[CarlosRobayo23]

Vistana=Marriott. Same thing, and Marriott increases fees every single year, no skipped years at Willow Ridge. I am selling my Willow Ridge Platinum units. There is no reason to keep them with my SBP and SDO units pulling all of the Marriott exchanges via II and at reduced fees.

Hey Cindy. I'm on the market for Willow Ridge Platinum units. If you want send me a PM

 

[ocdb8r]

MFs can never exceed the current rental rate of the lowest season (and the lowest view ), or the whole system risks collapsing.

There were many examples of this during the last financial crisis, and plenty of examples of this today (pre-COVID crisis). Several low-season Harborside weeks don't rent for their current maintenance fees and most of the Vistana mountain resort mud weeks also don't rent for enough to cover maintenance fees. I took a quick look at Redweek and there are also a few Westin Mission Hills weeks renting for less that 2020 MFs.

Long way to say that my guess is it will not go above low season rental rates.

I don't think we can count on this.

 

[LisaRex]

There were many examples of this during the last financial crisis, and plenty of examples of this today (pre-COVID crisis). Several low-season Harborside weeks don't rent for their current maintenance fees and most of the Vistana mountain resort mud weeks also don't rent for enough to cover maintenance fees. I took a quick look at Redweek and there are also a few Westin Mission Hills weeks renting for less that 2020 MFs.

For rental rates, I mean what the average Joe could go onto Vistana.com or Expedia and rent the unit for, not what an owner could get on Redweek. Most people don't know about timeshare resale sites.

 

[needvaca]

They will never lower maintenance fees. If they have lower costs this year, they will just use the extra cash to beef up “reserves”

 

[bobpark56]

Our maintenance fees at Westin St John went down significantly after the resort was closed due to hurricane damage.

 

[krj9999]

Yeah, not thrilled by the Willow Ridge increases either. But it still pulls good Marriott trades for me. Stayed at Ko Olina 2BR unit in January using a studio, and have an upcoming late June check-in at OceanWatch Villas (fingers crossed situation better by then) using a 1BR.

Usually easier for me to use the Willow Ridge deposits than my SDO deposits (in terms of getting value from). But I wouldn't be buying more of either resort at this point.

Vistana=Marriott. Same thing, and Marriott increases fees every single year, no skipped years at Willow Ridge. I am selling my Willow Ridge Platinum units. There is no reason to keep them with my SBP and SDO units pulling all of the Marriott exchanges via II and at reduced fees.

 

[JudyS]

Our maintenance fees at Westin St John went down significantly after the resort was closed due to hurricane damage.

Thanks for posting; that is good to know. How long was the resort closed, and how much did fees go down?

I should note, though, that the Westin St John was no doubt carrying hurricane insurance. As far as I know, no hotel insurance pays on pandemics.