Honor deal or accept higher offer?

[VegasBella]

I don't see anything dishonorable about acting legally in a business transaction. Unless he outright lied or mislead someone I don't think there's anything wrong with accepting a better offer.

I also think that whichever potential buyer signs fastest is the one most likely to follow through with payment.

That said, I think a different strategy might work better if you're selling or renting frequently. Repeat customers would probably require being a bit more lenient about what constitutes an "accepted offer."

 

[Egret1986]

"What would most do if you were in my shoes?"

What would most do if you were in my shoes?

This is the opinion that he asked for in his first post.

Many gave opinions, on both sides. However, there were a couple that gave opinions, or should I say, judgements on character. So to "rationalize" it, you say "he asked for opinions." I did go back and re-read Joe's first post to be fair to those that seemed to be going in "personal attack mode". You, too, may wish to re-read what opinion he was asking for.

Your posts went way past 'how you would handle it.' Everyone can respect a differing opinion on how you would personally handle it. But to overstep and offer your judgement on his integrity; well, that's on you. He didn't ask what you thought of him as a businessman. You chose to offer that up on a platter all by yourself, and; yes, you have rationalized why you were justified in doing this.

I'm not a personal cheerleader for Joe. I'm not a Marriott person, so most times our TUG paths do not cross. I am aware of him and his posts about his Marriott business, and his family. Some posts in this thread just seemed to take it to a personal level.

I do believe that including his financial and family situations in his initial and subsequent posts could have given the impression that he handled the offers/sale based on the "money" and was rationalizing it and looking for support.

That was my initial impression and I posted my opinion. But to me, when he said that he stated to the first buyer that he would still be accepting offers, that's when his actions were legitimized for me. He followed through on his word; he accepted another offer. Yes, Joe accepted an offer, but the other person had not accepted. Maybe the guy was serious, maybe not. That really has no bearing on it. Who can say?

I am also under the opinion that until it is agreed to in writing by both parties, then either one can walk away, the offer can be withdrawn, etc. The parties should also communicate with one another; not just disappear leaving things open-ended and the other party wondering "what's going on?" Joe communicated the situation.

Agree to disagree, and give the requested opinion without adding personal insults or judgements. Be nicer than you have to be.

 

[czar]

This seems to me to be the oddest set of circumstances in regard to the accepted offer. Typically one party makes an offer and the other either accepts or counters.

If someone posts an ad for sale at $X, and a buyer is willing to pay that price, then they would contact the seller and say, I'll take it. That typically works unless the seller gets greedy (or to be fair, didn't due their due diligence and listed it too low), right?

But if a buyer offer a different price, it's the sellers role
to accept (or decline). Why would there be double acceptance?

Buyer: I'll offer you $X for your week.
Seller: I accept. Wait, do you accept?

The last line just doesnt fit - unless there are some terms that the buyer might not be comfortable with accepting. But otherwise of course the buyer accepts - he made the offer!

So my guess is this is less about accepting a dollar amount and more about terms. Joe, was the buyer uncomfortable with the terms you were requesting?

From a moral and ethical standpoint, I feel that once you accept an offer you've commitetd yourself to it. Sure, terms can get in the way (maybe even on purpose), and that's ok. But if both parties greed on price and terms, one of them backing out, while certainly legal if nothing had been signed, would be, in my opinion, shady.

 

[MOXJO7282]

But if a buyer offer a different price, it's the sellers role
to accept (or decline). Why would there be double acceptance?

Buyer: I'll offer you $X for your week.
Seller: I accept. Wait, do you accept?

This what makes me laugh. Taking selective elements of the story and calling me shady. I really don't take it personally because I don't know you so I don't care if you think I'm shady. And I mean that in the nicest possible way but your comments are just inaccurate.

With all due respect there is a lot more to a deal than price. He indicated my price was very good. I said thank you did you want to buy? I told him the I accept rules.

We then discussed closing and escrow and deposits among other things. We got close to agreeing on everything and probably would've with another phone call but he never got to a final point where he ever accepted on my terms. The purchase agreement was meant to have him to do so but he left the door open and the 2nd buyer came in.

Here is some ammunition for my detractors, if it was only $500 I would have went with 1st buyer because I really like to be altruistic as much as I can be but my need to take care of my family is the most important thing I do in life so I did what I needed to do.

So maybe I didn't do what Jesus would have done but I did do what I believe most family providers would have done and can sleep well at night as a result.

 

[SueDonJ]

This is the opinion that he asked for in his first post.

Many gave opinions, on both sides. However, there were a couple that gave opinions, or should I say, judgements on character. So to "rationalize" it, you say "he asked for opinions." I did go back and re-read Joe's first post to be fair to those that seemed to be going in "personal attack mode". You, too, may wish to re-read what opinion he was asking for.

Your posts went way past 'how you would handle it.' Everyone can respect a differing opinion on how you would personally handle it. But to overstep and offer your judgement on his integrity; well, that's on you. He didn't ask what you thought of him as a businessman. You chose to offer that up on a platter all by yourself, and; yes, you have rationalized why you were justified in doing this.

I'm not a personal cheerleader for Joe. I'm not a Marriott person, so most times our TUG paths do not cross. I am aware of him and his posts about his Marriott business, and his family. Some posts in this thread just seemed to take it to a personal level.

I do believe that including his financial and family situations in his initial and subsequent posts could have given the impression that he handled the offers/sale based on the "money" and was rationalizing it and looking for support.

That was my initial impression and I posted my opinion. But to me, when he said that he stated to the first buyer that he would still be accepting offers, that's when his actions were legitimized for me. He followed through on his word; he accepted another offer. Yes, Joe accepted an offer, but the other person had not accepted. Maybe the guy was serious, maybe not. That really has no bearing on it. Who can say?

I am also under the opinion that until it is agreed to in writing by both parties, then either one can walk away, the offer can be withdrawn, etc. The parties should also communicate with one another; not just disappear leaving things open-ended and the other party wondering "what's going on?" Joe communicated the situation.

Agree to disagree, and give the requested opinion without adding personal insults or judgements. Be nicer than you have to be.

Good gravy.

He posed the dilemma as a question of "honor" (then later recanted the phrase,) said he was "struggling with the decision" (then later said he'd come to terms with it,) introduced his family situation as a qualifier (though hasn't answered yet if he is willing to consider similar qualifiers from the folks he deals with,) and, "sent a note to the first buyer apologizing" for reneging on the deal they'd struck (again later recanting it by saying he feels he's done nothing wrong.)

If he wanted a straightforward answer he should have asked the question in a straightforward manner. "I negotiated a deal and sent a contract to one buyer, then a few hours later got a higher offer from another buyer so told the first buyer I wouldn't go through with the deal we'd negotiated. What would you have done?" But instead of that he introduced all kinds of justifications and validations meant to tug at emotions and then appeared wounded when folks responded in kind.

But as long as you want to get technical about what was and wasn't introduced or invited in this thread, Egret, you might want to also include in your remonstrations to the rest of us that the OP didn't ask for opinions on whether his actions were legal or not, either. Despite that, you and others sure don't have a problem sharing your opinions of the legalities in order to shore up your support for his actions.

I thought I was done here but it's ridiculous that those who would not act as the OP had acted, are now being castigated by you because you think we're personally attacking the OP. I'm not. I said his actions here don't reflect favorably on him. That's not a personal attack; it's the opinion I have of his actions as he related them in this thread.

 

[MOXJO7282]

by you because you think we're personally attacking the OP. I'm not. I said his actions here don't reflect favorably on him. That's not a personal attack; it's the opinion I have of his actions as he related them in this thread.

Here why to me your comments and others like shady are personal, because I asked what would most do? You could have said "I would never do that and I would honor the 1st buyer". Or I strongly disagree with your approach. But instead you wrote "it doesn't look favorably on YOU" If that is not personal I don't know what is. You added that editorial which makes it personal. And you were the nicest of the detractors.

Anyway no sweat I always like a good debate even if I take a few hits.

 

[czar]

Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus

Here why to me your comments and others like shady are personal, because I asked what would most do? You could have said "I would never do that and I would honor the 1st buyer". Or I strongly disagree with your approach. But instead you wrote "it doesn't look favorably on YOU" If that is not personal I don't know what is. You added that editorial which makes it personal. And you were the nicest of the detractors.

Anyway no sweat I always like a good debate even if I take a few hits.

You know what? I was trying I help you out here. I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt in spite of the fact that this thread rang a bell with me http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148879

As I stated, I thought that this might be boiled down to terms. And in fact, although you took umbrage with my post, you agreed with exactly what I was stating: terms create issues with accepted offers.

But, Joe, this isn't your first time at the rodeo, is it? You clearly think that morals are paintings and scruples are money in Russia

Anyway, no sweat, I know I'd do the right thing as a buyer or a seller.

 

[SueDonJ]

You know what? I was trying I help you out here. I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt in spite of the fact that this thread rang a bell with me http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148879 ...

Well lookie there. Very interesting.

 

[csxjohn]

You know what? I was trying I help you out here. I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt in spite of the fact that this thread rang a bell with me http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148879

As I stated, I thought that this might be boiled down to terms. And in fact, although you took umbrage with my post, you agreed with exactly what I was stating: terms create issues with accepted offers.

But, Joe, this isn't your first time at the rodeo, is it? You clearly think that morals are paintings and scruples are money in Russia

Anyway, no sweat, I know I'd do the right thing as a buyer or a seller.

From the above referenced thread.

"Joe,

Could you explain to me why if you offered your unit at a price and received offers for it at each price, that you didn't sell to one of these buyers. Honest buyers would like to know.

John"


" What's to explain I was testing the market. I told them I had just sold and I was leaving up the ad to test the market.

What is your concern if you don't mind me asking since you didn't come right out and say it."

The red is mine.

That thread explains a lot. The OP is an admitted liar. As Sue said earlier, this does not reflect well on him.

 

[Renny30]

You have a lovely family. I'll say a prayer for your wife.

 

[comicbookman]

I welcome other opinions but that doesn't mean I have to agree with them. And you I definitely don't agree with.

Clearly you do not welcome other opinions. You consistently alter your story to avoid them.

 

[Pat H]

I understand that Joe has been banned from TUG.

 

[LisaH]

I understand that Joe has been banned from TUG.

Too bad. This one just got a lot more interesting after czar brought the old thread to life. Wish he could post to respond.

 

[SueDonJ]

I understand that Joe has been banned from TUG.

?

As a TUG moderator I don't see any evidence of that, but will look into it.

 

[presley]

You know what? I was trying I help you out here. I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt in spite of the fact that this thread rang a bell with me http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148879

After viewing that thread, and because of some other things unrelated, I have to say I am not trusting to doing private transactions even here on Tug. I've had great experiences with a lot of resellers on Ebay and also other private brokers. There's no BS. I say what I want to pay and they say yes or no and it's a done deal. I know others enjoy haggling. I just want to pay for my item and walk out the door.

 

[presley]

I understand that Joe has been banned from TUG.

?

As a TUG moderator I don't see any evidence of that, but will look into it.

He says he was banished, not banned. I'm sure its only a matter of time before he posts he never said he was banned and that people are twisting his words.

 

[Tia]

was just reading this whole thing this am.......

 

[Egret1986]

Yum, I didn't taste it.

Good gravy.

How did we get so off-topic that we're discussing gravy now?

I did take some of this personally since I buy and resell timeshares and could see the same thing potentially happening to me on TUG. I don't post asking for opinions on how I "do" my business though.

I am a "low key" seller. I list stuff. If you want it at my listed price or a negotiated price; great. I don't chase folks down after I've sent a purchase agreement or a rental agreement. Either you want it at the terms we discussed and will proceed or you change your mind and either notify me or not. I figure if you're really serious, the transaction will proceed. If you're not, what is the good in trying to chase you down? And that's all I'm going to share about that.

I took a TUG break for a day and came back and read the subsequent posts. As recently as yesterday, Joe was posting " ....but my need to take care of my family is the most important thing I do in life so I did what I needed to do."

"....I did what I needed to do." That statement is very telling.

I guess some of you latched on to this earlier in the debate or previously. Obviously, there is a history here with posting about business dealings that influenced your "opinions." The thread link that czar posted was eye-opening, to say the least.

 

[MOXJO7282]

I've been a contributor on TUG for almost 10 years and always tried to be courteous and helpful to anyone that had a question of me. I certain value the kindness from the majority of the people that have treated me the same way on TUG.

I remember taking a lot of heat early on from anti-Marriott folks that hated my pro-Marriott stance.

Then others hated that I have a commercial aspect to my posts and some didn't like I was in the habit of securing prime weeks only to rent.

In 2011 I bought a Marriott unit and to test the market I put up an ad test. Mislead a few strangers perhaps who weren't harmed in anyway but a few took major exception. I think I was accused of a felony by someone.

Now this where I followed real estate protocol and even had a guilty conscience about it because I didn't want the 1st buyer to feel bad and I am lambast by a few as if I beat my wife.

And through it all 99% I took the high road. And I'll continue to do that.



Not sure what happened with my account this morning but I was locked out so I couldn't respond. Reset my password and it was still locked. Finally a 3 PW reset worked after my status was questioned.

 

[ace2000]

deleted...

 

[TUGBrian]

Not sure what happened with my account this morning but I was locked out so I couldn't respond. Reset my password and it was still locked. Finally a 3 PW reset worked after my status was questioned.

being locked out has nothing to do with a banning of a forum account, in fact even if your account were banned, you would still have to successfully type in your correct username and password to the forums to then be notified that your account had been banned =)

Folks get locked out of the forums when they type in an incorrect username and password 5 times in the span of a few minutes. the lockout period lasts for 15 minutes (if im not mistaken) and wont reset even if you reset your password.

you would need to wait till the lockout period passed, and only then would you be able to log in again using the correct username and password...this of course would also again be subject to the same lockout period should you incorrectly type your username/pw in again 5 consecutive times.

Note this is a security feature of the Vbulletin forum software, and exists on tens of thousands of forums running vbulletin...not just TUG.

Hope this helps.

 

[MOXJO7282]

deleted another personal attack...

That is it. This last personal attack has made me seen the light and I've turned myself in to the Morality Police.

I've professed my sins and thrown myself at their mercy. A verdict has already been rendered.

Joe's crimes;
In 2011 he placed a Redweek ad to test the value of his week and blatantly lied to 4 people by telling them it was sold when it was in fact it wasn't.

MP ruling- This is especially heinous because these unsuspecting people never recovered from Joe's act of deceit even though they were never aware of it. One turned to a life of hotels because he never could buy the TS he wanted.

crime#2 even though Joe followed common real estate law Joe was evil to not give buyer#1 the deal even though he never accepted the full terms before another offer came in.

MP - even though RE law is clear Joe should have given the 1st buyer as much time as he needed no matter what.

These prove that he is as he has been so named to be a liar, disingenuous and possibly a felon and for these heinous crimes against humanity he is sentenced to a life without TUG.

Joe's final comment- There you have it. The MP have spoken. By order of the MP this will be my last post on TUG. I'm to logoff and cancel my subscription. I will ask for a refund but I doubt they would give one to such a bad, bad man.

For those that have been so kind to me over the years in spite of my dark side thank you and if I can ever be of any assistance you can find me at my family website.

I will miss TUG it was a great resource but I'm not worthy to be amongst such noble and honest people.

Farewell.

 

[mauitraveler]

After viewing that thread, and because of some other things unrelated, I have to say I am not trusting to doing private transactions even here on Tug. I've had great experiences with a lot of resellers on Ebay and also other private brokers. There's no BS. I say what I want to pay and they say yes or no and it's a done deal. I know others enjoy haggling. I just want to pay for my item and walk out the door.

Even though you may be hesitant about "doing private transactions" even here on TUG, I hope you don't give up on us entirely. There certainly are other sites that have good deals, and TUG also offers some great deals. We purchased two TSs through TUG, and luckily, the transactions went through very smoothly.

I have learned much from this thread these past few days. For the sake of continuing the learning process, have any of you been on the "receiving end" of your offer being declined after another buyer offered a higher amount for the purchase? How did your seller handle the situation, and would you have liked the seller to handle it any differently?

For example, once, we told a seller that we wanted to purchase the TS that he was offering at the price that he was asking. We corresponded about a possible closing company, and he said that he would have them send us the appropriate documents. Two days later, he e-mailed to tell me that someone else had offered him a higher price and asked if we wanted to up our offer. As we did not, we declined his request to up our offer. We were disappointed, but as they say, "Life goes on".

TIA for any insights or experiences you might like to share regarding having your offer declined in this manner. There might be more lessons out there for us, if we ever are in the position of being the seller.

 

[Phill12]

Who said the 2nd buyer knew the 1st bidders price? He had bid previously which i rejected and then came back with the higher offer that exceeded the 1st by $2k.

Alright if I have this straight this first offer is from someone who made a offer you then rejected and now up his offer by $2000 after you excepted another offer from the person you agreed to sell too and now want to find someway to get out of it so you can take the new offer for $2000 more.

I might have missed your posting but did you list a sales price on Tug or is this something being bid on some place like E-BAY?

The way timeshares today are selling I can not see anyone raising their offer $2000 or more on second offer!
Like my first post said HONOR which really doesn't seem to be part of your thinking here. Greed should replace honor.

PHILL12

 

[Egret1986]

Stated that it was a listing on Redweek

Alright if I have this straight this first offer is from someone who made a offer you then rejected and now up his offer by $2000 after you excepted another offer from the person you agreed to sell too and now want to find someway to get out of it so you can take the new offer for $2000 more.

I might have missed your posting but did you list a sales price on Tug or is this something being bid on some place like E-BAY?

The way timeshares today are selling I can not see anyone raising their offer $2000 or more on second offer!
Like my first post said HONOR which really doesn't seem to be part of your thinking here. Greed should replace honor.

PHILL12

The show's over, folks; you may disperse now.