Ebay pricing not reflective of true resale value

MOXJO7282 · Jun 9, 2011

There has always been a notion that ebay reflects the true resale costs of a timeshare. I've argued against the notion but it was easy for the others to challenge me because they had plenty of examples from ebay to promote their position and those that beleived otherwise don't so it was a very one-sided argument.

Well I can say in my recent ebay is clearly a buyer's market and doesn't come close to reflecting true resale value. MY cases in point, involved the Marriott Grande Ocean Gold OF weeks I bought on ebay for $7500. After purchasing, for a test I listed on Redweek.com the same unit at $9250, then $11,250, then $12500, then $13250. I received almost immediate offers at each price point and from ifferent people and just recently agreed to sell at the $13,250 price point.

So in a matter of a few months I flipped a ebay purchase for a few dollars. Actually to avoid tax implications I'm officially selling the unit I bought in 2007 for $13,800 and keeping the 2 OF Gold units recently purchased on ebay.

timeos2 · Jun 9, 2011

MOXJO7282 said:
Well I can say in my recent ebay is clearly a buyer's market and doesn't come close to reflecting true resale value.

TRUE market value is the lowest price you can purchase an item for. The fact that other stores/sites/locations may sell it for more doesn't make it go away nor does it give the higher priced units the crown. The market price, by definition, is the lowest price a willing seller agrees to with a willing buyer. Thus an eBay price - if it is the lowest out there - IS the true market value. Doesn't mean you can't ask for more and hope your buyer doesn't know to look at eBay or other sites but that doesn't mean your higher price is the market value but that a buyer was willing to pay you MORE than market value for whatever reason. I can buy the same shirt at Macy's for $40 or Marshall's for $29 - what is the "true market price"? The Target one - $24! The other two have more overhead, more brand recognition, offer credit, whatever that makes a buyer there willing to pay a premium. That doesn't raise the true market price or value.

Ridewithme38 · Jun 9, 2011

MOXJO7282 said:
There has always been a notion that ebay reflects the true resale costs of a timeshare. I've argued against the notion but it was easy for the others to challenge me because they had plenty of examples from ebay to promote their position and those that beleived otherwise don't so it was a very one-sided argument.

Well I can say in my recent ebay is clearly a buyer's market and doesn't come close to reflecting true resale value. MY cases in point, involved the Marriott Grande Ocean Gold OF weeks I bought on ebay for $7500. After purchasing, for a test I listed on Redweek.com the same unit at $9250, then $11,250, then $12500, then $13250. I received almost immediate offers at each price point and from ifferent people and just recently agreed to sell at the $13,250 price point.

So in a matter of a few months I flipped a ebay purchase for a few dollars. Actually to avoid tax implications I'm officially selling the unit I bought in 2007 for $13,800 and keeping the 2 OF Gold units recently purchased on ebay.

I once bought a car for $1,500 within a week i had it back in my local classifeds for $3500 and sold in in less then a month after that...it was a 1989 Honda CRX..Now i knew because of the construction of the car, the miles on the odometer and had checked the vehicle history report and known it had been in a flood...it was only worth $1500-$2000 at most...But the kid i sold it too...saw a cool little yellow car...and was a very uninformed buyer...So he handed over the money and thought he got a deal

I have recent become involved with the new movement of electronic cigarettes, i don't sell them but have talked to some major distributors and understand what the cost and value are for them...You can buy XX product for $65 online(i can actual get the factory direct price of $38.99...but when you go to a Mall kiosk to buy that Kit, it is in the $150 range

Market prices fluctuate alot...but nothing compares to how much money an uninformed buyer is willing to pay

rrazzorr · Jun 9, 2011

MOXJO7282 said:
After purchasing, for a test I listed on Redweek.com the same unit at $9250, then $11,250, then $12500, then $13250. I received almost immediate offers at each price point and from different people and just recently agreed to sell at the $13,250 price point.

Just so I am clear, did you create multiple listings at various prices or kept bumping up the price in one listing?

BocaBum99 · Jun 9, 2011

timeos2 said:
TRUE market value is the lowest price you can purchase an item for. The fact that other stores/sites/locations may sell it for more doesn't make it go away nor does it give the higher priced units the crown. The market price, by definition, is the lowest price a willing seller agrees to with a willing buyer. Thus an eBay price - if it is the lowest out there - IS the true market value. Doesn't mean you can't ask for more and hope your buyer doesn't know to look at eBay or other sites but that doesn't mean your higher price is the market value but that a buyer was willing to pay you MORE than market value for whatever reason. I can buy the same shirt at Macy's for $40 or Marshall's for $29 - what is the "true market price"? The Target one - $24! The other two have more overhead, more brand recognition, offer credit, whatever that makes a buyer there willing to pay a premium. That doesn't raise the true market price or value.

That's not the definition of market value. The definition of market value is the price point at which supply = demand for a given market and time frame.

The problem is that there isn't really a large market for timeshares meaning that some times, those markets have only 2 players in them, the buyer and the seller. This is as compared to a market that has 10000 active buyers and 10000 active sellers each of whom have a price point at which they would buy. When those people are brought together, a true market value, in the traditional sense of the term, can be established.

There are distinct markets in timesharing each of which do not necessarily know about each other which accounts for the disparity in pricing. If all such small markets knew about each other, then the pricing would settle around a value that changes slowly over time. However, since the timeshare market is so inefficient, you see a wide range of transaction pricing. This is what creates the profit potential in timeshare resales.

bnoble · Jun 9, 2011

There are distinct markets in timesharing each of which do not necessarily know about each other which accounts for the disparity in pricing.

This is exactly so. There is no "one market value", because there is no one market. After all, Wyndham continues to sell at developer pricing, even though the very same thing (minus any VIP/PlusPartner trappings) can be had for less than pennies on the dollar. Timeshares, as a market, are extraordinarily inefficient in the sense of markets, because so few people know enough about the entire landscape.

That's good news for those of us who *do*, though. When buying, look for the buyer's market. When selling, look elsewhere.

MOXJO7282 · Jun 9, 2011

rrazzorr said:
Just so I am clear, did you create multiple listings at various prices or kept bumping up the price in one listing?

Kept bumping it up.

jbcoug · Jun 9, 2011

Joe,

Could you explain to me why if you offered your unit at a price and received offers for it at each price, that you didn't sell to one of these buyers. Honest buyers would like to know.

John

ampaholic · Jun 9, 2011

jbcoug said:
Joe,

Could you explain to me why if you offered your unit at a price and received offers for it at each price, that you didn't sell to one of these buyers. Honest buyers would like to know.

John

Well, he didn't want to brag about how moxie he was at flipping - so by dissing on eBay he could turn it into a sort of reverse brag.

Of course if the buyer who is in negotiations to pay him 13 large reads this thread, the hay may hit the fan.

ampaholic · Jun 9, 2011

Ridewithme38 said:
I once bought a car for $1,500 within a week i had it back in my local classifeds for $3500 and sold in in less then a month after that...it was a 1989 Honda CRX..Now i knew because of the construction of the car, the miles on the odometer and had checked the vehicle history report and known it had been in a flood...it was only worth $1500-$2000 at most...But the kid i sold it too...saw a cool little yellow car...and was a very uninformed buyer...So he handed over the money and thought he got a deal
-snip-

If I had done that: sold a "flood" car for a "non-flood" car - I don't know if I would brag about it. Remind me to scoot over a few feet from you (to avoid the lighting bolt) just in case you get your reward.

Ridewithme38 · Jun 9, 2011

ampaholic said:
If I had done that: sold a "flood" car for a "non-flood" car - I don't know if I would brag about it. Remind me to scoot over a few feet from you (to avoid the lighting bolt) just in case you get your reward.

was completely stripped and repaired after the flood, i had checked the vehicle history and gave the seller the 3rd degree about it...it was a good car for 1500...but i didn't realize how uncomfortable it is to be 6'3 and sit in a sub-compact car

MOXJO7282 · Jun 9, 2011

jbcoug said:
Joe,

Could you explain to me why if you offered your unit at a price and received offers for it at each price, that you didn't sell to one of these buyers. Honest buyers would like to know.

John

What's to explain I was testing the market. I told them I had just sold and I was leaving up the ad to test the market.

What is your concern if you don't mind me asking since you didn't come right out and say it.

Bee · Jun 9, 2011

Market Value is defined as the amount a willing buyer will pay and a willing seller will accept.

ondeadlin · Jun 9, 2011

Seems kinda rude, Joe. Maybe not outright dishonest, but certainly on the borderline.

Overall true market value is neither the lowest price you can buy something for nor the highest price you can sell something for.

It's something in between.

But the folks who argue against eBay overlook the fact that eBay is a huge, huge part of setting what the true market value is. The more "bargain" sales there are on eBay, the lower the true market value is.

Nothing has done more to lower median or average selling price - or true market value - than eBay.

california-bighorn · Jun 9, 2011

MOXJO7282 said:
What's to explain I was testing the market. I told them I had just sold and I was leaving up the ad to test the market.

What is your concern if you don't mind me asking since you didn't come right out and say it.

Not sure what John was thinking, but it may be the same thing I was thinking. Recently I saw a listing on Redweek I was very interested in. Having let my membership lapse, I had to join again and pay the fee just to contact the lister only to find out the listing was not really available. When I contacted Redweek about listers posting units that are not available, Redweek told me to report those listers to them for removal. People can list for what they want, but listings should be accurate and available. Anything else is not ethical.

kaio · Jun 9, 2011

jbcoug said:
Joe,

Could you explain to me why if you offered your unit at a price and received offers for it at each price, that you didn't sell to one of these buyers. Honest buyers would like to know.

John

They are referred to as Feeler threads... to understand potential interest if parted with.

Edit: not sure how a feeler thread would be applicable in a paid marketplace like Redweek, but in such like a forum, it would make sense.

ampaholic · Jun 9, 2011

ondeadlin said:
Seems kinda rude, Joe. Maybe not outright dishonest, but certainly on the borderline.

Overall true market value is neither the lowest price you can buy something for nor the highest price you can sell something for.

It's something in between.

But the folks who argue against eBay overlook the fact that eBay is a huge, huge part of setting what the true market value is. The more "bargain" sales there are on eBay, the lower the true market value is.

Nothing has done more to lower median or average selling price - or true market value - than eBay.

Well said

Joe and ride's comments about their "sharp" practices have me concerned if some TUG members are really good persons to do business with.

I think I would buy from eBay before I bought from Joe - nothing personal, just business.

MOXJO7282 · Jun 9, 2011

ampaholic said:
Well, he didn't want to brag about how moxie he was at flipping - so by dissing on eBay he could turn it into a sort of reverse brag.

Of course if the buyer who is in negotiations to pay him 13 large reads this thread, the hay may hit the fan.

I actually didn't flip anything because I'm technically selling a week I bought in 2005 for $13800, so I'm technically selling at a loss.

Also please point out to me how I diss eBay in my comments. I was just stating facts. I in fact love Ebay to buy TSs.

As for bragging, you can call it what you want, makes no difference to me, but my thought were about perhaps helping someone who is comtemplating selling.

I would love to think someone was going to use ebay to sell a similar TS because they heard on TUG "Ebay is market value" and they read my post and thought better and received $1000s more selling it through a better channel.

That's my mentality, not bragging or dissing. Perhaps you're looking at a reflection?

MOXJO7282 · Jun 9, 2011

california-bighorn said:
Not sure what John was thinking, but it may be the same thing I was thinking. Recently I saw a listing on Redweek I was very interested in. Having let my membership lapse, I had to join again and pay the fee just to contact the lister only to find out the listing was not really available. When I contacted Redweek about listers posting units that are not available, Redweek told me to report those listers to them for removal. People can list for what they want, but listings should be accurate and available. Anything else is not ethical.

C'MON RUDE AND UNETHICAL, THAT IS RIDCULOUS.

Seriously don't you have anything else to do but stir up controversy.

I was polite and professional in my actions and I offended no one.

I had sold 2 OS weeks and had the ad time to use, and I was testing the market on the OFs. Don't be so self righteous.

california-bighorn · Jun 9, 2011

MOXJO7282 said:
C'MON RUDE AND UNETHICAL, THAT IS RIDCULOUS.

Seriously don't you have anything else to do but stir up controversy.

I was polite and professional in my actions and I offended no one.

I had sold 2 OS weeks and had the ad time to use, and I was testing the market on the OFs. Don't be so self righteous.

I stand by my previous statements.

timeos2 · Jun 9, 2011

ampaholic said:
If I had done that: sold a "flood" car for a "non-flood" car - I don't know if I would brag about it. Remind me to scoot over a few feet from you (to avoid the lighting bolt) just in case you get your reward.

Selling a known flood vehicle that has been paid for and declared junk by an insurance settlement (which most are) is a Federal crime! I wouldn't be on any public BBS (or anywhere else) saying (bragging?) I did it (and made money to boot!), If I did it it would be because I didn't know ihad been duped into buying such a car & was selling it thinking it was OK - if I had actual knowledge that it was a flood vehicle I'd assume I'd been had & at best could go after whoever sold it to me not trying to pawn it off on the next unsuspecting victim. Again, it's a crime to do so (besides being of questionable ethics or worse).

jbcoug · Jun 9, 2011

Joe,

After your explanation that you weren't actually "technically" doing anything unsavory, I'll have to view your actions in a different light. You were merely wasting peoples time. Nothing wrong with that.

Oh, and Kaio, he wasn't doing this on a forum, he was doing it in a market place (e-bay). People checking that out probably think they are dealing with people that actually want to sell what they have at the price they have posted.

John

ps: Joe, you wondered what it was to me. I just think that I have enough crap to deal with. I wouldn't want to be jerked around when trying to make a simple purchase.

bdh · Jun 10, 2011

timeos2 said:
Selling a known flood vehicle that has been paid for and declared junk by an insurance settlement (which most are) is a Federal crime! I wouldn't be on any public BBS (or anywhere else) saying (bragging?) I did it (and made money to boot!), If I did it it would be because I didn't know ihad been duped into buying such a car & was selling it thinking it was OK - if I had actual knowledge that it was a flood vehicle I'd assume I'd been had & at best could go after whoever sold it to me not trying to pawn it off on the next unsuspecting victim. Again, it's a crime to do so (besides being of questionable ethics or worse).

WHAT??

When an insurance company totals/junks a vehicle the vehicle is titled as such and can not be driven on the road as no BMV will plate the vehicle. However, the vehicle can be repaired and made road worthy, once inspected by the AHJ (authority having jurisdiction) the BMV will issue a new title for the vehicle - that title will be a "Salvage Title". IE: the car has been in some type of previous incident (wreck, flood, stolen and stripped, etc) however it has been repaired and is deemed safe and legal to drive and sell. Salvage titled vehicles occur all across the US and are common and legal. Since the title clearly says "SALVAGE" on it, the only way you would be duped is if you can't read.

NWL · Jun 10, 2011

jbcoug said:
Joe,

After your explanation that you weren't actually "technically" doing anything unsavory, I'll have to view your actions in a different light. You were merely wasting peoples time. Nothing wrong with that.

Oh, and Kaio, he wasn't doing this on a forum, he was doing it in a market place (e-bay). People checking that out probably think they are dealing with people that actually want to sell what they have at the price they have posted.

John

ps: Joe, you wondered what it was to me. I just think that I have enough crap to deal with. I wouldn't want to be jerked around when trying to make a simple purchase.

As I read the first post, the OP bought the TS on eBay but tested the selling waters on Redweek.

Cheers!

MOXJO7282 · Jun 10, 2011

jbcoug said:
Joe,

After your explanation that you weren't actually "technically" doing anything unsavory, I'll have to view your actions in a different light. You were merely wasting peoples time. Nothing wrong with that.

Oh, and Kaio, he wasn't doing this on a forum, he was doing it in a market place (e-bay). People checking that out probably think they are dealing with people that actually want to sell what they have at the price they have posted.

John

ps: Joe, you wondered what it was to me. I just think that I have enough crap to deal with. I wouldn't want to be jerked around when trying to make a simple purchase.

Honestly you shouldn't let things bother you so easily.

So if you were interested in my week and contacted me and I told you "sorry its sold and by the way so you know I'm leaving the ad up to test the market to see if I sold to low" that would annoy you?

Anyone who would get annoyed or think thats unethical or rude needs to lighten up and enjoy looking at the postive side of life.

Ebay pricing not reflective of true resale value

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