Hilton Grand Vacations Club Sandestin - Coming in Q4 2022

[Eric B]

Yep, that's the name of the page on the web site; most likely made up by some IT person while programming the site because it was never specified in the design. But clearly in the content of the page, there is never a mention of "HGV Max Properties" as a collection, only "Properties Available During the HGV Max Reservation Window" (emphasis mine). To me, that is a pretty big difference, especially since HGV has come out and said there are going to be three collections of properties going forward: Hilton Grand Vacations Club, Hilton Club and Hilton Vacation Club. Never a mention of a HGV Max Properties collection. So I'll stick w/ my nit-pick.

Kurt

We can agree to disagree. I was describing the list using their name for it and not asserting that any are HGV Max properties per se or in a collection titled that. IMHO, it’s a distinction without a difference - my belief remains that the former Embarc resorts renamed HGVC will not be bookable by HGVC members without Max based on the indication that HGVC Palm Desert will only be available in the HGVC Max reservation window. Things may change when the final rules come out, of course, but if you take into account the profit motivation for HGV it seems unlikely they’ll just give away access for free.

 

[dayooper]

But, according to the HGV marketing, the couple being discussed in this forum are supposed to be available Q4.....Q4 starts in a couple weeks.

If you put it in the portal but don’t put any inventory in the system, Max members can’t book it. Makes it look like there are some really nice properties available when they really aren’t.

HGVC promoted the SW Florida affiliates to prospective clients when they knew it was nearly impossible to reserve. Why wouldn’t they do that with Max?

 

[HuskerATL]

I get that some Hilton members are anxious to visit Embarc locations

I am not sure how anxious we are but this group definitely likes to discuss ad nauseam topics that we have no control over ... But still fun to speculate.

 

[Eric B]

If you put it in the portal but don’t put any inventory in the system, Max members can’t book it. Makes it look like there are some really nice properties available when they really aren’t.

HGVC promoted the SW Florida affiliates to prospective clients when they knew it was nearly impossible to reserve. Why wouldn’t they do that with Max?

Perhaps someone can book them for $$ through Hilton but not book via HGVC or HGVC Max yet. The same situation exists currently for the penthouse units at The Quin - they show up available to rent through Hilton but don’t show up in HGVC.

 

[HuskerATL]

HGVC Palm Desert will only be available in the HGVC Max reservation window

We should know in 10 days when the HGV Max portal is live. I suspect that an announcement will come out on the 1st or whatever day things actually go live to pitch the system "going live", send emails out to the folks who bought new or upgraded between January 14th and April 4th with the ability to "Opt In", and then offer the HGVClub Legacy owners who didn't upgrade or buy new between those dates, the $7k ala carte fee option. Once the system is live, then someone who has access to Max can let us know if they see Palm Desert in there.

 

[Eric B]

The disappointing thing is that we managed to get 100s of pages of speculation in the threads in the Vistana forum about Marriott Abound, but only a shadow of that here. Is HGV going too quickly?

 

[HuskerATL]

Is HGV going too quickly?

Well, nothing is live yet.....we have watched the "live" dates get pushed back so we will see when it is actually live. I have heard others say that sales folks told them it would be January 2023.

 

[cd5]

Embarc members have just received a first email concerning the rebranding and "future" transition efforts.

Dear Member,​ With Embarc’s first resort rebranding at Hilton Grand Vacations Club Palm Desert completed, we’re excited to report that efforts are now underway at several additional Embarc properties to transition them to Hilton Grand Vacations Club.​ In October and November, we expect four additional Embarc properties to be rebranded, after which their new property names will be: Hilton Grand Vacations Club Whistler Tremblant, a Hilton Grand Vacations Club Blue Mountain, a Hilton Grand Vacations Club Hilton Grand Vacations Club Sandestin Access, Reservations and Governance Please rest assured that your membership rights and access will not be changed once the properties are rebranded. Your membership and contract will remain the same, and you will continue to make reservations as you do now. The name of your Embarc Members Association and your board of directors will also stay the same.​ Next Steps We will continue to provide updates as additional rebranding efforts take place through various channels, including the Embarc Member website and your quarterly Club Traveler newsletter. If you have any questions, please contact Member Services at​ We are excited for the changes that lie ahead and hope to see you soon!​ Best Regards, Embarc Members Association​

We respect your privacy. For a full description of our privacy policy, please click here. Please do not reply to this email. Mail sent to this address cannot be answered. Hilton Grand Vacations® is a registered trademark of Hilton Worldwide Holdings Inc. or its subsidiaries and licensed to Hilton Grand Vacations Inc. Hilton Grand Vacations and its properties and programs operate under the Hilton Grand Vacations name pursuant to a license agreement with Hilton Worldwide Holdings Inc. © 2022 Hilton Grand Vacations Inc.​

 

[dayooper]

Perhaps someone can book them for $$ through Hilton but not book via HGVC or HGVC Max yet. The same situation exists currently for the penthouse units at The Quin - they show up available to rent through Hilton but don’t show up in HGVC.

We booked our big next summer trip at Tuscany in Orlando next year. We booked a 3 bedroom. I went and checked my Hilton Honors app for the Hilton rack rate (I always do). While my timeframe wasn't there, I did check in May. Tuscany was ~$500 a night, Seaworld was ~$400 and Parc Soleil was ~$475. HVC Mystic Dunes was listed as $132 for a 3 bedroom. I thought they would be much closer in rates as Mystic Dunes I thought it's supposed to be one of the top properties in the DRI/HVC system. Could it be branded HGVC so Hilton can charge more per night?

 

[cd5]

We booked our big next summer trip at Tuscany in Orlando next year. We booked a 3 bedroom. I went and checked my Hilton Honors app for the Hilton rack rate (I always do). While my timeframe wasn't there, I did check in May. Tuscany was ~$500 a night, Seaworld was ~$400 and Parc Soleil was ~$475. HVC Mystic Dunes was listed as $132 for a 3 bedroom. I thought they would be much closer in rates as Mystic Dunes I thought it's supposed to be one of the top properties in the DRI/HVC system. Could it be branded HGVC so Hilton can charge more per night?

No, it was confirmed that only the Embarc resorts would be branded HGVC. None of the Diamond ones will be. That said, I guess they could change their mind someday...

 

[dayooper]

No, it was confirmed that only the Embarc resorts would be branded HGVC. None of the Diamond ones will be. That said, I guess they could change their mind someday...

Sorry, I meant could Embarc be rebranded HGVC so Hilton can charge more per night.

 

[Talent312]

[C]ould Embarc be rebranded HGVC so Hilton can charge more per night?

I think the HGVC officers (with corner offices at MetroWest) just like seeing the big "H" on the walls of their trophies.

 

[PigsDad]

Sorry, I meant could Embarc be rebranded HGVC so Hilton can charge more per night.

In general, the Embarc properties are nicer and match more w/ the existing HGVC properties vs. the Diamond properties. It makes sense to me that the rack rate for the Embarc properties would be higher than the HVC / Diamond properties.

Kurt

 

[dayooper]

In general, the Embarc properties are nicer and match more w/ the existing HGVC properties vs. the Diamond properties. It makes sense to me that the rack rate for the Embarc properties would be higher than the HVC / Diamond properties.

Kurt

I completely agree. The discussion was why Embarc was rebranded as HGVC if we HGVC members can't book it without Max. It all comes down to anything in the timeshare world; money.

 

[Eric B]

They should have included an asterisk in the brand, HGVC*.

 

[Sandy VDH]

I'm just hanging tight to see how it all shakes out. I would love for the Embarc to be included in HGVC.

It would give me access back to a resort in Ontario again, since the Wyndham properties sold out of the timeshare. Embarc resorts I am more interested in. Yet there are a few Diamond in locations that would be a nice alternate once in a while.

Not spending any money until I see what really is available. I own wyndham and there is club pass access to worldmark, but I obtained a worldmark because it was a cheaper play than trying to use via Wyndham.

 

[cd5]

I completely agree. The discussion was why Embarc was rebranded as HGVC if we HGVC members can't book it without Max. It all comes down to anything in the timeshare world; money.

You can't book without Max because of the governance/incorporation document. They can't be changed. An "outside" program like Embarc's Extraordinary Escapes, Diamond's Destination Xchange or Hilton's HGV Max are "add-ons" belonging to the developer that don't affect the governance and policies for the Embarc Members Association (the properties in the trust or those for current HGVC owners) nor the usage terms for legacy members who own points without the "add-on". These programs can be easily modified (even cancelled) as the developer chooses and sold on whatever terms the developer chooses - fixed amount (some have heard a possibility of $7000 for HGV Max) or an additional or new points purchase at one of the resorts. The developer decides how to "bundle" it and the conditions under which they are sold and used - as long as it respects the terms of the governance documents.
That is why even though the name changes (because it belongs to Hilton now, after all) not much else does other than the "add-ons".

 

[HuskerATL]

The developer decides how to "bundle" it

I am not sure the developer will have any say in this. If it is available in the Max exchange, then it is available to the HGV Max members regardless of how people got into Max. Now whether it will be made available as an exchange property in HGVC, like many others currently are in HGVC is another discussion.

 

[cd5]

I don't understand what you mean by
I am not sure the developer will have any say in this. If it is available in the Max exchange, then it is available to the HGV Max members regardless of how people got into Max. Now whether it will be made available as an exchange property in HGVC, like many others currently are in HGVC is another discussion.

I don't understand what you mean by "I'm not sure the developer will have a say" - of course they do - it's a developer add-on that is not needed to be an owner of current or resale points (only new purchases).
I agree for the rest but that is not what I meant, really. They build whatever program they launch in whatever way that they think will give them maximum returns on every membership purchased. For Embarc EE, for existing Embarc members, it was a minimum 60 point (at $250 or more per point or whatever they could get) purchase and then an added cost for the annual fees - per point for ALL points (even those owned prior to the new 60 point purchase) plus an annual $199 renewal fee and you can no longer opt out. For new members, minimum 120 point purchase with the added cost per point on annual fees, plus the renewal fees and you can never get out (of the EE add-on). That's what I meant by "bundle" - a bundle of conditions for joining - which are not necessary nor available when buying resale.

 

[pedro47]

I feel exchanging into this resort is going to be very limited,

Let's wait and see what happen?

 

[HuskerATL]

Message below

 

[HuskerATL]

bundle

Gotcha. So, someone who buys a cheap HGVC resale, pays $7k or so to "upgrade" to a retail deed that then gets them in Max would have much less investment to use Embarc properties.

 

[cd5]

Gotcha. So, someone who buys a cheap HGVC resale, pays $7k or so to "upgrade" to a retail deed that then gets them in Max would have much less investment to use Embarc properties.

There's no deed involved for Max it's just a "membership", but yes. Or just buy Embarc resale (probably cheaper than Hilton). The $7000 would be to get into Max without buying more points/another deed, say for someone who already has lots and doesn't want more. Don't know if it's a possibility but have heard that there's been some talk about a fixed price for those who don't want higher annual fees.

 

[HuskerATL]

There's no deed involved for Max

I know. It is just an exchange program but there are three ways for HGVC folks to get in; buy a new HGVC deed, upgrade an existing HGVC deed, or pay the $7k ala carte fee, when it is announced. If you have a resale deed already, you can "upgrade" it and with that upgrade, it gets you access to Max. They tried pitching that to us in July. They offered to "upgrade" our resale annual Blvd to an EOY for $7K and with that upgrade, we would be in Max and all 9 of our weeks would count for Max tiers. We are currently elite premier so they said we would be Premier+. I don't think they actually had any idea if all our resale would count in Max but that was the pitch and we turned it down.

My point though is that if the only requirement is to be in Max, then there are relatively cheap ways to do that without buying another retail deed or upgrading an expensive deed. There are stories where they are pitching these for tens of thousands of dollars just up get in Max which doesn't make a lot of sense.

 

[dioxide45]

Not sure what you mean by "signing an affiliation agreement". Embarc is now fully owned by Hilton - they don't need one. What they have to do is figure out schemes that don't contravert the master declaration but which allow them to make "changes" - which because of the Master Declaration, make it extremely difficult do what they may really prefer.

What I mean is, HGVC (Club) is an external program. HGVC has each individual resort and each resort is part of the club and follow the club rules. Embarc could simply affiliate with HGVC in the way the HGVC affiliate resorts in SW Florida do. That doesn't require a change to anything with Embarc except for members agreeing to participate in HGVC. I suspect HGV doesn't think this will bring in enough volume of inventory to be bothered with and there will be constant complaints of no Embarc inventory.

The problem with rebranding the Embarc resorts to Hilton Grand Vacations is that it causes a lot of confusion with the customer/owner. Unless they have a better long term plan to incorporate some kind of cross booking, it seems sloppy and ill contrived. Even if they incorporate it into HGV Max, it is still sloppy and ill contrived and still causes consumer/owner confusion.

Owner - You mean to say there are some resorts I can't book with club points at 9 months even though it is a Hilton Grand Vacations resort?
Owner Services - That is correct
Owner - Why?
Owner Services - Well that is a big long story about this company called Diamond that we bought that owned Embarc that was actually called Club Intrawest at one time. We gave them the same brand name as your resort, but we aren't going to let you book there.