Hilarious sales presentation experience at Residences / Hilton Midtown New York

[GT75]

that is true so maybe it won't be quite the same as buying resale in the US...but those are still considered resale, do not qualify you for Max, are not upgradable, and really seem to confuse the sale's folks....that is why they focus on the Blvds for trade in.

I agree but I think the salesperson is just trying the figure out the best approach to upsell you. The first approach will use one of your ownerships to trade back in, thereby reducing the cost. After that, they must sell you at full price.

 

[HuskerATL]

Before our August 2021 trip to Elara, we got a call from their sales manager. He asked us about our trips. He told us he saw that we didn’t take any trips from when we “bought” our deed in 1994 (when the original owners purchased) and our 1st trip with our ownership in 2019. He flat out asked us if we were resale.

When we purchased in 2018, there was a small issue getting our account set up. The CSR manually set it up and never asked us if we are resale. Since Flamingo dies not have ROFR and they aren’t actively selling their deeds, I always wondered if there was issue with how our account was created.

That tells me that the "system" didn't tell him but he figured it out because of the reservations.... Or, knew something was up.

 

[frank808]

I don't know. Again, I think you are giving them too much credit. That can be created but I don't buy that it is that specific/in-depth. The reason that I say this is that every time they come out for an offer, they present our resale as retail, with the original amount the first owner paid, and still do not seem to know it isn't retail until we tell them. I have had this happen multiple times. Even in our Hawaii offer that we accepted but later rescinded, the finance person didn't even seem to be aware that the Blvd weeks were resale. I think their systems aren't as robust as you think a multi-billion dollar company should be. I actually think they are a mess with the various ownership types, owned/managed/affiliate properties and now toss in DRI/Embarc. I just look at how poorly their club rules are released with tons of typos/errors, how many conflicts in the system they have like folks buying resale and getting into Max, etc.

At Hilton Hawaiian Village, body snatchers know I am resale only now when looking at screen.

The body snatcher at The Residences did not know (we are resale only)when giving us a very good offer which we accepted. Then within 5 minutes he called my phone and said we did not qualify.

In my experience, I have been found out as resale only, as late as the next day. And as quick when they try to schedule me for a tour.

Only once (in the past 12 years) I have made it to a presentation.

Unfortunately I like attending them. If HGVC was like MVC they still invite resale only owners. I upgraded retail twice with MVC, so it is possible. HGVC just seems to want the low bearing fruit and not want to work for it. Of course there is nothing in the Elite levels besides no charge reservation fees that I would like. But that is why I bought a BHC unit to pay the AI fee.

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[HuskerATL]

At Hilton Hawaiian Village, body snatchers know I am resale only now when looking at screen.

The body snatcher at The Residences did not know (we are resale only)when giving us a very good offer which we accepted. Then within 5 minutes he called my phone and said we did not qualify.

In my experience, I have been found out as resale only, as late as the next day. And as quick when they try to schedule me for a tour.

Only once (in the past 12 years) I have made it to a presentation.

Unfortunately I like attending them. If HGVC was like MVC they still invite resale only owners. I upgraded retail twice with MVC, so it is possible. HGVC just seems to want the low bearing fruit and not want to work for it. Of course there is nothing in the Elite levels besides no charge reservation fees that I would like. But that is why I bought a BHC unit to pay the AI fee.

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Our last trip to Orlando, they offered us the half day water sports with unlimited food and drinks. The date that worked was before the presentation, same for the Luau on the Big Island, so that could be a way to force one, if you want it. You go to the event before the owner meeting and then I am sure you will have one.

 

[muscae]

HGVC has some awesome customer relationship management software. Some of you don't want to believe it, but they do.

First, the Concierge really only needs to know if you are eligible to attend an update and what they can offer. They also know when your last tour was and if you have future stays booked. The rules for eligibility can be fluid. For example, it is not uncommon for Hawaii resorts to have a one tour every three months rule, sometimes more frequent. Orlando and Vegas are often once per month but at times every stay can generate a tour. I've checked out of seaworld and into tuscany and have been on two tours within a span of five days in the past.

Second, the sales rep usually starts with a piece of paper containing your ownership history. Where you own, date purchased, equity, if you have a loan and current balance, interest owed if traded in on current date, points, type of unit. The paper includes any contracts that you rescinded. It also includes if you have a current unused VIP.

Third, the iPad has comprehensive data about you. It includes the number of sales tours you've been on, their dates, the sales rep.and closer for each tour, what you were offered, and other general notes about every tour. It also contains your HGVC reservation history, so they can tell you that your current stay is your xxx stay with HGVC. Of course, it includes detailed data about every purchase.

They know more about you than you think.

 

[muscae]

Our last trip to Orlando, they offered us the half day water sports with unlimited food and drinks. The date that worked was before the presentation, same for the Luau on the Big Island, so that could be a way to force one, if you want it. You go to the event before the owner meeting and then I am sure you will have one.

The water sports and luau are some of the HGVC Ultimate Access events. You are required to attend a sales presentation on the day after attending an Ultimate Access event. Some events are free, others have a copay. For example, swimming with the dolphins at discovery cove.in orlando.has a copay. If you don't attend the sales presentation, you will be charged the retail price for the event. HGVC had to create this program because Diamond had events for their members.

 

[HuskerATL]

Where you own, date purchased, equity, if you have a loan and current balance, interest owed if traded in on current date, points, type of unit.

but, from what I have noticed on this that it shows the date the original deed was bought, not when you bought it, if you bought resale. Just like in the HGV portal, your resale deed shows the original date. For our Blvds, it shows 05/13/2010...but we bought it years later. For our resale Craig Lodges, the date is correct but I think it is because they are Certificate of Holiday. Our retail Tuscany is correct in 2003 though.

The info is probably all there but I am not sure they have an algorithm guiding it. Of course, AI could do wonders with it.

 

[yodaDaenerys]

the guy i've bought from in NYC can get pretty creative. he's a pretty straight shooter too. he can do the deal remote, no sales presentation required. he found us a $15K upgrade in 2022, getting us into Max. i regret doing it now, even though it did lower our MF/pt. this was before i was aware of the resale market. if you want his contact details, let me know.

 

[muscae]

the guy i've bought from in NYC can get pretty creative. he's a pretty straight shooter too. he can do the deal remote, no sales presentation required. he found us a $15K upgrade in 2022, getting us into Max. i regret doing it now, even though it did lower our MF/pt. this was before i was aware of the resale market. if you want his contact details, let me know.

Any sales representative that you have ever sat with can do a remote deal with you regardless of whether you bought with them or declined.

 

[davidvel]

HGVC has some awesome customer relationship management software. Some of you don't want to believe it, but they do.

First, the Concierge really only needs to know if you are eligible to attend an update and what they can offer. They also know when your last tour was and if you have future stays booked. The rules for eligibility can be fluid. For example, it is not uncommon for Hawaii resorts to have a one tour every three months rule, sometimes more frequent. Orlando and Vegas are often once per month but at times every stay can generate a tour. I've checked out of seaworld and into tuscany and have been on two tours within a span of five days in the past.

Second, the sales rep usually starts with a piece of paper containing your ownership history. Where you own, date purchased, equity, if you have a loan and current balance, interest owed if traded in on current date, points, type of unit. The paper includes any contracts that you rescinded. It also includes if you have a current unused VIP.

Third, the iPad has comprehensive data about you. It includes the number of sales tours you've been on, their dates, the sales rep.and closer for each tour, what you were offered, and other general notes about every tour. It also contains your HGVC reservation history, so they can tell you that your current stay is your xxx stay with HGVC. Of course, it includes detailed data about every purchase.

They know more about you than you think.

We own Marriott, who has a similar sheet. I find it very surprising/suspect that privacy laws allow the distribution of that type of detailed financial information, especially with a resale owner.

 

[SmithOp]

They know more about you than you think.

That may be true but I've had experience where they clearly don't read it. A closer offered me a VIP package of points because "your point balance is 0". I told him, it's always close to zero, look how many reservations I have. I'm always borrowing ahead, travel now, pay later.

 

[Nowaker]

Second, the sales rep usually starts with a piece of paper containing your ownership history. Where you own, date purchased, equity, if you have a loan and current balance, interest owed if traded in on current date, points, type of unit.

Like I said previously, this printout is crap. Little information and wrong information. They have to decipher many things from it. But I won't repeat myself.

 

[Nowaker]

the guy i've bought from in NYC can get pretty creative. he's a pretty straight shooter too. he can do the deal remote, no sales presentation required. he found us a $15K upgrade in 2022, getting us into Max. i regret doing it now, even though it did lower our MF/pt. this was before i was aware of the resale market. if you want his contact details, let me know.

I'm interested! Wonder if someone can finally get me a $10K-$12K new money upgrade.

 

[HuskerATL]

I'm interested! Wonder if someone can finally get me a $10K-$12K new money upgrade.

go to Orlando, offer your 2 Blvd for an upgrade for $7k...and Max. That is what they offered us. Of course, it was downgrade for less points than the two Blvd...but it was in Max. We passed.

 

[muscae]

We own Marriott, who has a similar sheet. I find it very surprising/suspect that privacy laws allow the distribution of that type of detailed financial information, especially with a resale owner.

The loan information on the sheet is for a retail purchased financed with HGVC. A resale owner would not have a loan with HGVC financing. For resale owners, the equity amount is the original purchasers price since it is not financed.

 

[muscae]

I'm hesitant to post this but here goes. First, some caveats 1. I heard this from a sales representative and 2. I do not know the legal terms or requirements. This is just to give you the gist of what happened.

When HGVC developed a resort and wanted to sell deed in it, they had to license or register every location where they wanted to sell the deed. The license or registration included pricing for the deed. When HGVC accepts a trade-in or exercises ROFR, they have a choice to resell within the terms of that license or registration including the pricing details OR they can apply for a new license or registration to increase the pricing. Apparently, it is cost and time prohibitive to apply for the license to raise the price, so they sell it at the original purchasers price or just allow the resale. My gut feeling is this is why they tend to not exercise ROFR and why your sheets have the original purchase date and price even though there may have been multiple resales of the deed since that time. There is a legal requirement for them to maintain the information.

I could be wrong, but for me this seems like the most plausible reason you see original sales data on your sheet and why your ROFR passes. Peace.

 

[HuskerATL]

Their prices do change though. A 2 bed Tuscany Village gold, 8k pts, isn't $15k any longer... That we paid in 2003. They will take it for that price as trade in and then turn around and sell it for retail at the current price so their price isn't locked. Also, there are properties owned by HGV, others managed, and then the affiliates. HGV sells the deeds for managed properties but the developer decides about ROFR, such as the SC. Strand decides whether to exercise ROFR or not at all the SC properties, not HGV but then HGV will resale them and their prices have changed over time.

 

[yodaDaenerys]

I'm interested! Wonder if someone can finally get me a $10K-$12K new money upgrade.

not sure if there is a way to private message here? also , probably nothing with me sharing his details here publicly, right? anyone contacts him for business is just a bonus for him.

 

[HuskerATL]

not sure if there is a way to private message here? also , probably nothing with me sharing his details here publicly, right? anyone contacts him for business is just a bonus for him.

You can click on a person in this group and send them a private message

 

[GT75]

not sure if there is a way to private message here?

yes, you can PM a person

 

[yodaDaenerys]

yes, you can PM a person

thanks, that's the 'conversation' action, right? i didn't realize that was a thing. i've forwarded the NYC sales rep's details to the interested party.

 

[Nowaker]

go to Orlando, offer your 2 Blvd for an upgrade for $7k...and Max. That is what they offered us. Of course, it was downgrade for less points than the two Blvd...but it was in Max. We passed.

Reminder: it didn't work https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/t...rovals-going-all-the-way-to-corporate.353118/ - but that was a 3 deeds trade-in (Blvd 8000, Blvd 5440 EOY, Trump 8400). Anyway, could you recap what your trade-in was exactly, and what your purchase deed was exactly?

 

[Nowaker]

When HGVC developed a resort and wanted to sell deed in it, they had to license or register every location where they wanted to sell the deed. The license or registration included pricing for the deed. When HGVC accepts a trade-in or exercises ROFR, they have a choice to resell within the terms of that license or registration including the pricing details OR they can apply for a new license or registration to increase the pricing. Apparently, it is cost and time prohibitive to apply for the license to raise the price, so they sell it at the original purchasers price or just allow the resale. My gut feeling is this is why they tend to not exercise ROFR and why your sheets have the original purchase date and price even though there may have been multiple resales of the deed since that time. There is a legal requirement for them to maintain the information.

That's interesting and it actually may be true for some states. I'll dig into it if I have time. Thanks for sharing.

 

[HuskerATL]

Reminder: it didn't work https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/t...rovals-going-all-the-way-to-corporate.353118/ - but that was a 3 deeds trade-in (Blvd 8000, Blvd 5440 EOY, Trump 8400). Anyway, could you recap what your trade-in was exactly, and what your purchase deed was exactly?

Well, we didn't do it but they made a couple pitches and then I brought up the $7k cash option that was in the club rules and in the email from Mark Wang. They looked at the email on my phone and said that they could work out a deal for the same price. They suggested trading in our two 2 bed gold season, 8k pts, deeds for one deed that was lower points but I don't remember the amount and where. It was summer before last. The email was what triggered the offer. I know their, that they offered, deed was not good, maybe an EOY, but I don't remember what it was. We just declined and left.

 

[zjhasan1976]

How did they know that? Most of the time, they don't know that unless you tell them. They figure it out later but it seems to take more effort and that doesn't happen until they have reason to dig more. They always think that we bought retail and it isn't until we either tell them or they did more when trying to make an offer, that they figure it out.

Not sure. She had approached us, asked for our names, checked her print out and said: 'Oh, you bought through a third party. Enjoy your stay' and moved on.