Hi, I am a Timeshare salesman who cant read the rules!

[Jason245]

1. *6 -15% depending on doen payment, tour source etc. 25% would be crazy money!!!!

2. read bottom half of page 1

3. Was explained pretty well. How do you vacation??

4. Do you pay for those rooms out of pocket or does your company?

5. Closings are handled by deeders. I would say 15-25 pages with all info. That's the purchase proposal, all fees laid out for each portion of the time share (maintenance, taxes, exchange program...) 12 I would assume. this isn't 1980 no one hides small print anymore...

6. I'm speaking solely about vacationing dollars. No one goes on vacation with the light bill... if they do they most likely realize from the jump they can't afford a timeshare. When families vacation they know what their budget allows. Once that travel is established, the budget doesn't change that much because what can be spent comfortably has been established. Again, what are your vacation habits??

2. I bought it on EBAY from a reputable reviewed source via PAypal. Saved $150 dollars and ATT gave me another $100 credit on my service. They are now giving me $25/month discount on phone service which will cover the full cost of the phone in less than 2 years.

3. I use hotel points ( I now have a ton thanks to credit card points using tips and tricks I have picked up over the years to maximize rewards). I also picked up two Timeshares (EOY even and ODD) that were on ebay. I got one for $1 and another for $60. Same resort (Hilton), Highest points level for a 1BR. We have begun using the product and love it and can't believe that we are getting a premium experience at such a discounted price all thanks to me doing about 6 months of research on the product and asking a ton of questions about the advantages and disadvantages of resale and the risks I should be on the look out for. .

I go somewhere every month with my wife and my toddler.

4. Sometimes I pay, sometimes my company, depending on if I am staying for the weekend. I usually made arrangements with the hotel when I was paying for deeply discounted rates for weekends, and of course having the highest level of status at their chain helped.

5. They don't hide small print, the instead create text in all CAPS (See warranty documentation), put paragraphs with key provisions in the middle of the page, etc. I spent years looking over contracts for work, trust me, just because the print isn't too small to read, doesn't mean that it is written in a way that a common person can understand or detect. This is why trained professionals are hired to do the work.

6. You are dead wrong about people knowing how much money they have to spend. most people do not know, that is why consumer debt is so high and savings is so low. You haven't answerd my question about how deep you probe? Have you ever asked yourself how a family with 3 children earning $50k a year can afford the product you are selling? The purpetual MF and assessments that they can not get out from under? Have you ever helped even one of these people out of the situation that you took part in creating? I encourage you to look through the past posts of people who are in that situation and can't get out 3-10 years after the purchase.

 

[davidvel]

The reality of the situation is what I said earlier. You care as much about that person as you say the developers do. The full scope is this. If sou spend $2500 a year RENTING vacations for the next 10 years you will spend $25000 correct?

If you spend $20k on a timeshare, use it for 10 years and then sell it for $100 did you not get a better return on your vacation dollar and have more quality vacations for the same money?? I know most of you have heard the example in same shape, form or fashion yet it's true. Renters don't sell receipts, owners have an opportunity to recoup at least some of the dollars they traveled on. :deadhorse:
*Mic drop*

Putting aside the MF issue, what timeshare are you describing that you can buy from a developer for only $20K, that would cost $2500/week ($360/night) to rent? [crickets]

 

[Jason245]

Tante read a few more books then rejoin the conversation

Jason A for effort. maint on 20k timeshare usually in the 7-900 range.

Timeshare vacation comes with way more space (something all hotels have and one of the biggest gripes I hear everyday) a full kitchen that can cut food cost tremendously (we don't talk about food cost too often because you have to eat regardless but most families at home don't eat out 3 times a day.) Free activities that can easily cut entertainment cost in half or more (free water parks, mini golf, ziplines, rockwall climbing swimming pools etc..) and conveniences like 24hr security, free transportaion restaurants and groceries on property etc... that will never be included in a hotel cost.

Most families find the most amount of stars for the least amount of money within their vacation budget (usually around $100 a night) to figure out how much money they will spend to be away from their "nice" expensive hotel room. You can actually relax in a resort setting and there are plenty of things to do at the property you are staying on. Making area attractions an option not an absolute.

So push your 1700 to 3-4000 if not more.

Now you are pushing it a little. All things being equal, people traveling with kids arn't traveling to stay on property, they are traveling to places like Orlando to see the mouse.

Lets even use $900 Vs 1700, what is the pay back on a $20k buy in for $800/year in savings on lodging.

As for the whole they will eat on property to save money. Many hotels offer FREE BREAKFAST (heck when I go, because of status, they give me all kinds of free stuff including access to executive longes for snacks etc..). I usually get a fridge and a microwave in the room at no additional charge and housekeeping EVERY day. As for cooking on site vs Restaurants, I suggest you take a hard look at recent food consumption statistics, last time I looked, Home cooked meals are on the decline while restaurant meals and prepared foods are on the heavy upswing.

The reality is that the ammenities are nice, but when you are on vacation you are generally disinclined to cook and have to clean dishes etc. We just came back from a few nights at a timeshare stay and cooked breakfast one of our 3 days there and used the dinner plates and cuttlary to eat some take away food (although they gave us some utincels) simply because it was a temper tantrum kinda day for my son.

 

[TimeShareProfessional]

As for cell phones you enter a contract to connect the phone so you are "committed" (not really because it meets a need to communicate) If its month to month you still have to pay for the service or it is cut off.

The same holds true for vacationing. For families that can afford it, they go every year (because it meets a need; stress relief, quality time, new experience etc) the contract is to ensure they go every year because it is important to said family.

Other families don't put the same emphasis on vacation (the month to month plan) either because its not important enough (that's a shame there are so many benefits to vacations) or they can't afford to do it regularly (also a shame but we wont go there...)

Timeshare is still viable in both situations. Families buy a time to met different needs. To ensure they have a nice place every year. To force them to go or have a plan to ensure they can go etc.

Your major problems arise for instance when a family gets a inexpensive 3/2 on property to come see a presentation. For a family that normally couldn't afford a vacation to travel like the Jones's makes them realize what their family is missing out on. If people want something bad enough they will find a way to afford. unfortunately this doesn't always work out.

A classic case of stay in your lane

 

[e.bram]

OP:
Why buy when you can get minvacs(along with freebies) from the developers to do the tour at low cost? Keep touring for the best deal!

 

[Jason245]

Hotels are a one time rental if I find out I cold have gotten the same space at half the price I'll learn from that and do better next time. Timeshares are forever
If I make a mistake it's tough to recover Comparing the purchase of a time share, a lifetime of memories, with a hotel, no more than a one night stand just doesn't work. (Although I do have fond memories of a few one night stands)

I think you started this telling us that most of what you see here is fluff and that most of us don't know much about timeshares. I hope you are learning that we know more than you think. I would bet that some some of us own more timeshares than you have sold in your career. And I am in awe of the experience and knowledge that so many bring to this forum

I can't figure out your angle here. You had to know you weren't going to make a sale. Or change any minds. That's the downside of all our knowledge and experience; we are pretty set in our ways

Perhaps if you had come to us with a little humility and respect. And ask for our help. I know I've referred several people to a certain Wyndham salesman and i will again when I think it's the right thing for the person I'm advising. And I've made purchases myself from the same salesman. You see we respect one another.
Sorry to talk to you like a child but at my age I suspect I could be your grandfather and you sound so damned immature

How many million wyndham points do you own now Ron? I keep waiting for them to name you as a perm member of the Board of Directors, or rename one of their resorts after you.

 

[davidvel]

Putting aside the MF issue, what timeshare are you describing that you can buy from a developer for only $20K, that would cost $2500/week ($360/night) to rent? [crickets]

And adding, with MF in the "7-900 range"?
[More crickets.]

 

[tante]

Okay i gotta admit i was pushing your buttons to see how you would respond. I am not surprised you went straight for the insult.

But seriously stop comparing cell phones to timeshares. People need too communicate, they don't need vacations. They don't file for bankruptcy due to their cell phone purchase. If people could get a timeshare for under a $1000 with a $350 termination fee, this site would not exist and be full of people asking for help.

 

[Jason245]

As for cell phones you enter a contract to connect the phone so you are "committed" (not really because it meets a need to communicate) If its month to month you still have to pay for the service or it is cut off.

The same holds true for vacationing. For families that can afford it, they go every year (because it meets a need; stress relief, quality time, new experience etc) the contract is to ensure they go every year because it is important to said family.

Other families don't put the same emphasis on vacation (the month to month plan) either because its not important enough (that's a shame there are so many benefits to vacations) or they can't afford to do it regularly (also a shame but we wont go there...)

Timeshare is still viable in both situations. Families buy a time to met different needs. To ensure they have a nice place every year. To force them to go or have a plan to ensure they can go etc.

Your major problems arise for instance when a family gets a inexpensive 3/2 on property to come see a presentation. For a family that normally couldn't afford a vacation to travel like the Jones's makes them realize what their family is missing out on. If people want something bad enough they will find a way to afford. unfortunately this doesn't always work out.

A classic case of stay in your lane

Umm.. My cell phone has no contract mostly because they subsidize me not to have one (ATT). In fact, most of the carriers are pushing away from the contract model because it has so utterly failed given the new competitive landscape.

All that being said, What advise do you provide to your clients when they find themselves unable to pay for the product you sold them? IT happens all the time, people come here almost every day to tell their story of how they are in trouble and the developers arn't willing to work with them.

What initiatives are you or your employer implementing to help these people out? Do you even care? Do you care enough to do anything about it? Did you care enough to tell them to "Stay in their lane" when you were selling or more about how much commission you were going to get once the recision period ended?

The contract has nothing to do with forcing them to go every year. The contract has to do with an obligation to pay for a vacation every year no matter what.

 

[TimeShareProfessional]

Without digging through all the numbers (too late for that) you can't cut out the property because it is a huge part of the resort experience. If it was the room alone you would have a leg to stand on but it never will be. once a time share is paid off all you have is MF. Your next 10 yrs on your figures would be 9000 compared to another 17000 plus inflation. Throw in 1 or 2 dream trips (Hawaii, Europe, Australia etc.) As an owner its MF plus air. as a renter add 3-5k per trip to your 1700 base. I could go on but you get the point. rental is constant and guaranteed to go up a MF may move but would a 910 MF be worth not paying 3-5K for the same room...

 

[billymach4]

Why buy a timeshare at all. Rent from Redweek, or II, RCI... Even Better. Rent from TUG!

 

[e.bram]

OP:
You are not responding to the questions I ask the weasels when I do a moocher tour? Try to sharpen your skills here!

 

[billymach4]

Oh let him peddle his wares. We need more supply on the resale market. I need people to give me their used Timeshares

 

[TimeShareProfessional]

Umm.. My cell phone has no contract mostly because they subsidize me not to have one (ATT). In fact, most of the carriers are pushing away from the contract model because it has so utterly failed given the new competitive landscape.

All that being said, What advise do you provide to your clients when they find themselves unable to pay for the product you sold them? IT happens all the time, people come here almost every day to tell their story of how they are in trouble and the developers arn't willing to work with them.

What initiatives are you or your employer implementing to help these people out? Do you even care? Do you care enough to do anything about it? Did you care enough to tell them to "Stay in their lane" when you were selling or more about how much commission you were going to get once the recision period ended?

The contract has nothing to do with forcing them to go every year. The contract has to do with an obligation to pay for a vacation every year no matter what.

You're grasping at straws now. If I don't pay my car note does the dealership baby me along the road to financial security or do they tow my car???? Get real. :hysterical:

 

[e.bram]

OP:
Time for you to call the TO man(closer)in to post, like you do in a tour!

 

[Jason245]

Without digging through all the numbers (too late for that) you can't cut out the property because it is a huge part of the resort experience. If it was the room alone you would have a leg to stand on but it never will be. once a time share is paid off all you have is MF. Your next 10 yrs on your figures would be 9000 compared to another 17000 plus inflation. Throw in 1 or 2 dream trips (Hawaii, Europe, Australia etc.) As an owner its MF plus air. as a renter add 3-5k per trip to your 1700 base. I could go on but you get the point. rental is constant and guaranteed to go up a MF may move but would a 910 MF be worth not paying 3-5K for the same room...

I have rented amazing apartments in top European cities (that don't have timeshares) for under $2k/week so I would like some support for where your numbers are comming from. I am talking about Paris, Rome, London.

 

[davidvel]

I could go on but you get the point. rental is constant and guaranteed to go up a MF may move but would a 910 MF be worth not paying 3-5K for the same room...

900MF for a $5,000.00/week unit? (Your claim was outrageous enough at $3,500.) An example of such a mythical place?
[Crickets, mike drop, etc.]

 

[TimeShareProfessional]

If you have no problem repeating timeshare tours over and over again to take vacations that you otherwise couldn't afford to go on, taking time out of said vacations because you have to tour and drag your significant other (who is most likely embarrassed and/or tired of going on them) enjoy.

Vacation probably shouldn't be your main focus at this point though. I would look more along the lines of career advancement seminars or classes for that same time to achieve the financial stability required for that vacation lifestyle.

 

[Jason245]

You're grasping at straws now. If I don't pay my car note does the dealership baby me along the road to financial security or do they tow my car???? Get real. :hysterical:

Car note? I buy cars for Cash. If I decide I no longer want it I (at my option) sell it back to the dealer or another private party For some reason My Honda is worth about half of what I bought it for 10 years ago..go figure.

What recourse do you give to people who buy the product you sold (maybe even for CASH) and can no longer afford the purpetual financial obligation?

Lets assume that I did finance a car for 100% financing, and after 2 years I owed 80% and I realized I couldn't afford it any longer and brought it to the dealer who offered me 70% for the car leaving me liable for 10% (this is a common practice). I would then pay the 10%

What is offered to the customer of a TS they bought from you? time and time again, the developer is not willing to take it back. This is the story that we hear on TUG every day. What do you have to say to these people? What does your employer have to say? What programs do you have in place to address this issue?

Or is your answer: "POUND SAND, IT AINT MY PROBLEM YOU MADE A BAD FINANCIAL CHOICE"

A car always has some value even to the person that sold it to the customer initiatlly 2,3,5,10 years after the fact. For some Reason, Developers are telling their customers that the Timeshare has NO value because if it did, they would be willing to take the property back or have a program in place to Buy them back. The only programs in place are ROFR and of the developers that allow deedbacks, there is usually a CHARGE associated with it. Yes you read me right, developers taking back fully paid for deeds with MF up to date for a Charge (meaning that it is less than worthless in the eyes of the developer).

 

[persia]

Except you've paid $20K for the timeshare and another $20-30K in Maintenance fees! Let's get this straight you don't get to vacation free with a timeshare purchase....

In the end it's the law of supply and demand, if there are more timeshares for sale than buyers then it's a buyers market.

I've owned Wyndham and currently own Worldmark South Pacific. The Wyndham were mostly free and I paid about 20% of developer for WSP. I get treated exactly the same as any other owner,

And finally, if resale is such a great value and you all seem to be against the weasel developers, why not pay more for the resale? Why not help the very people you attempt to "defend" with your TUG jobs (sorry too good to pass up moderators) by simply saying something along the lines of:

"You know what, that awful company over charged you for that timeshare. I feel your pain. Wow! You paid $20k for that timeshare yet your listing it for $100. Rather than rip you off, why don't I pay you $6k" Thats 1/3 the retail price. Seems pretty fair for both sides.

The reality of the situation is what I said earlier. You care as much about that person as you say the developers do. The full scope is this. If sou spend $2500 a year RENTING vacations for the next 10 years you will spend $25000 correct?

If you spend $20k on a timeshare, use it for 10 years and then sell it for $100 did you not get a better return on your vacation dollar and have more quality vacations for the same money?? I know most of you have heard the example in same shape, form or fashion yet it's true. Renters don't sell receipts, owners have an opportunity to recoup at least some of the dollars they traveled on. :deadhorse:

*Mic drop*

 

[billymach4]

Except you've paid $20K for the timeshare and another $20-30K in Maintenance fees! Let's get this straight you don't get to vacation free with a timeshare purchase....

In the end it's the law of supply and demand, if there are more timeshares for sale than buyers then it's a buyers market.

I've owned Wyndham and currently own Worldmark South Pacific. The Wyndham were mostly free and I paid about 20% of developer for WSP. I get treated exactly the same as any other owner,

like box check

 

[Jason245]

If you have no problem repeating timeshare tours over and over again to take vacations that you otherwise couldn't afford to go on, taking time out of said vacations because you have to tour and drag your significant other (who is most likely embarrassed and/or tired of going on them) enjoy.

Vacation probably shouldn't be your main focus at this point though. I would look more along the lines of career advancement seminars or classes for that same time to achieve the financial stability required for that vacation lifestyle.

If someone offered you $150 an hour to sit in a chair for 3 hours with no other obligation or requirement other than following the law and listening to someone talk at you would you?

There are not that many who make that much per hour, so it is a pretty good deal for some.

 

[Jason245]

What would you tell the following person if they were your customer?
How would you or your company help them?

This is the actual true story we deal with every day on TUG.

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=226756

 

[tante]

Has anyone everyone done a comparison of MF increases compared to hotel rate increases or even point redemption increases?

 

[Jason245]

Has anyone everyone done a comparison of MF increases compared to hotel rate increases or even point redemption increases?

Interestingly enough, from 2008 to 2013 hotel rates actually remained steady or declined. I have yet to hear of any MF decreasing. As for point redemption increases, there were a number of significant ones with the major chains last year, that being said, before last year they had been steady for a number (I mean 5+ years)

I have mostly detemined this from my own personal experiences (and it was primarily driven by lower occupancies due to the poor economy). Rates are back on the uptick.