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Hi, I am a Timeshare salesman who cant read the rules!

TimeShareProfessional said:
Most times in that scenario it's the classic too good to be true scenario. In my experience those listings are either back logged with years of unpaid maintenance fees, or the people that bought it either couldn't afford it in the first place or have run into a situation where now it is no longer affordable.

Another good portion are the you get what you pay for scenario I introduced earlier. A lot of those timeshares were bought very inexpensively to begin with, sold with the thought they could buy the off season 1 bedroom in the middle of nowhere and exchange it for the (insert dream trip here.) The reality is they were definitely shown the top of the line first. Once it was established that they wanted it but it wasn't affordable they bought what they were comfortable with. Most times leading to utter disappointment when it "wasn't what they were sold/told on presentation."

Its like cell phones. I can buy a $700 smart phone attached to no company and I have an expensive paper weight/ facebook device or I can buy one on ebay AS IS with no guarantees other than whats in the ad. Or I can sign a 2yr contract, get the phone much cheaper and have SERVICE attached to it. How did you buy your phone?
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If I buy real estate worth $500,000 and find out I cannot afford it, I can sell it for $500,000 (assuming I paid the proper value). If I buy a timeshare from a reputable developer for $50,000 and find out I cannot afford it I can sell it for $10,000 less the brokers 25% fee (another rip-off).

You cannot compare timeshares with cellphones.
 
Another good portion are the you get what you pay for scenario I introduced earlier. A lot of those timeshares were bought very inexpensively to begin with, sold with the thought they could buy the off season 1 bedroom in the middle of nowhere and exchange it for the (insert dream trip here.) The reality is they were definitely shown the top of the line first. Once it was established that they wanted it but it wasn't affordable they bought what they were comfortable with. Most times leading to utter disappointment when it "wasn't what they were sold/told on presentation."
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TUG is just as much about warning against buying cheap off season timeshares as well. That's why many times the recommendation is just to rent. Knowing that the customer wants the the filet after selling them on all the benefits, and then selling them the hot dog because that is what they can comfortably afford is not servicing your customer when you don't make it clear that what they are buying is a hot dog and will never be a filet.

TUG is about finding the filet (at the best price) if you want filet and finding the T bone if that is what you want and explaining that you can get 20 hotdogs by trading in your Tbone but you will probably never get the T bone or filet by trading in your hotdog.
 
Dave I'm on the same page as you there is no axe to grind. This is mainly for personal information, as a thread in a forum is hardly a crusade for or against any real change.

As for presentations, people as a whole are not dumb. To act or be as naive to think that a company will give them $100 to give their opinion on any particular resort is the first lie ever told on a sales presentation. On top of the fact that every family presents valid ids, proof of marriage and confirms that they are aware it is a 90 min sales presentation before they ever take the tour, there is a wealth of knowledge in every pocket on every smart phone about what they are coming to do.

Most want to take advantage of the opportunity to profit and then act like the victim when they realize it makes sense to own but they game planned on all the reasons they weren't going to buy.

As far as the time goes, in that same confirmation it is clearly stated 90min based on your level of interest and it is signed by anyone that takes said tour.
 
tschwa2 I like your analogy. The big problem with that idea is that there is pretty extensive paper work outlining exactly what a customer bought. Usually including things like the week, unit, location, points value etc... that they are buying. All signed by all parties involved with what ever rescission period is available.

Most smaller purchases are sold with an intent for the owner to upgrade or buy more points in the future when finances allow and the smaller package is a way to start experiencing ownership to see if it should be further pursued.
 
TimeShareProfessional said:
Most times in that scenario it's the classic too good to be true scenario. In my experience those listings are either back logged with years of unpaid maintenance fees, or the people that bought it either couldn't afford it in the first place or have run into a situation where now it is no longer affordable.
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My experience buying on eBay has been very different. I have bought and sold a number of timeshares over the years, and I bought every one of them on eBay. By requesting an estoppel before completing the purchase, I knew exactly what I was getting. None had outstanding maintenance fees, taxes, or assessments owing. They were exactly as described in the ad, and there have been no surprises. None of my purchases were off-season junk weeks. All were nice weeks in nice resorts, a number of them in Hawaii.

None of it for me was a "too good to be true" situation. (And Developers sell to people who can't afford it all the time, so that's an invalid point.) Circumstances do change for owners, but that also doesn't change the fact that the timeshare was being offered for pennies on the original sales dollar. If the value was truly there, the resale price would be comparable to what it sold for new. The price only dropped like it did, and eBay became the sales venue of choice, because there was no resale value to the timeshare being sold.

It is difficult to speak in generalities about timeshare resales, but I can say that in my experience, it has been very direct and easy for me. The reason is because I educated myself before buying anything. I knew what to look for, what to look out for, and how to conduct a proper resale purchase. And I am pleased to say the bulk of that knowledge came from TUG.

My lone remaining timeshare is an oceanfront EOY unit in a well-run, mid-level resort on Kauai that is managed by Wyndham. Developer sales at this resort were in excess of $10K, but the place was sold out before I found it. My eBay resale purchase price was less than $100. No matter how you slice it, that is less than 1% of the original selling price, for exactly the same thing. There would be no reason for me to spend that other 99%.

I took advantage of nobody, and nobody lied to me about what I was buying. In my mind, that makes it a win-win.

Dave
 
TimeShareProfessional said:
Dave I'm on the same page as you there is no axe to grind. This is mainly for personal information, as a thread in a forum is hardly a crusade for or against any real change.

As for presentations, people as a whole are not dumb. To act or be as naive to think that a company will give them $100 to give their opinion on any particular resort is the first lie ever told on a sales presentation. On top of the fact that every family presents valid ids, proof of marriage and confirms that they are aware it is a 90 min sales presentation before they ever take the tour, there is a wealth of knowledge in every pocket on every smart phone about what they are coming to do.

Most want to take advantage of the opportunity to profit and then act like the victim when they realize it makes sense to own but they game planned on all the reasons they weren't going to buy.

As far as the time goes, in that same confirmation it is clearly stated 90min based on your level of interest and it is signed by anyone that takes said tour.
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Few people I know of would go looking for timeshare presentations to attend. But many I know of are enticed into attending by people who offer them a gift of some sort if they'll go. They assure them it's a no pressure thing, and they won't be forced to buy anything. The sales pressure portion doesn't come until well into the presentation, and when the person says "No thanks," it doesn't stop there. They are often put through the wringer, made to feel like they're freeloaders and cheapskates, "moochers" as you called them, because they WON'T buy something. It doesn't matter if they were vetted beforehand - it's the nature of how the sales pitch process is managed. You know this sort of thing happens all the time.

If buying a timeshare was such a great thing to do, there shouldn't be any reason to offer a person any sort of incentive to attend. People should be knocking on doors asking to attend, rather than being figuratively dragged in off the street, and bribed into submitting to things. It shouldn't be that hard for the sales people to sell their wonderful product. But it is. And that is the baggage part of things you'll have to overcome if you want people to think differently about the process.

Dave
 
The presentation is mostly about the sizzle and not the steak. The paperwork is all about the steak. Even if a customer reads the paperwork there is nothing about how the sizzle works and after hearing 60+ minutes about the sizzle they assume their hotdog is going to work the same way.

A lot of those timeshares were bought very inexpensively to begin with, sold with the thought they could buy the off season 1 bedroom in the middle of nowhere and exchange it for the (insert dream trip here.) The reality is they were definitely shown the top of the line first. Once it was established that they wanted it but it wasn't affordable they bought what they were comfortable with. Most times leading to utter disappointment when it "wasn't what they were sold/told on presentation."
Click to expand...

As a salesperson (who wants happy customers) even if you are selling the lesser package, you need to make sure the buyer understands what they are getting and not fall back on "it was all in the paperwork."

And very inexpensively is even more of a misnomer than expensive in the timeshare retail world. $6000-$10,000 is pretty cheap on the retail market but it isn't a non substantial amount. Ron's example of someone paying $100,000 for what he bought for $7000 isn't as bad as someone paying $10,000 for something that they can't even give away when $10,000 plus MF's was really stretching the limits of what they could afford and then a small change like an illness or layoff happens and they owe $8000 for something that they can't get rid of without taking a hit on their credit. How about a disclosure both verbally and in the paperwork when you sell them the very inexpensive packages that you could probably find someone to pay you to take this from them and there are 100's of similar packages available for under $50 and this will only have value if you want to trade it in for another more expensive retail package that will likely also have very little value until you get to the $30,000 or more range in the retail packages.

As you and I both know there are plenty of people out there who won't bat an eye at paying $30,000, $50,000 or $100,000 for something. Marketing and offering gifts to those who make under $100,000 and really $200,000 is going to result in unhappy salespeople who are going to have to make some unhappy customers because 90% of the presentation is about selling the "dream" of the $50,000+ ownerships. If Timeshare companies, your included continue to market to those with lower incomes, you need to be straight forward the entire sales presentation and then go up if they want something more than what is shown not go down if they can't afford the top of the line.
 
Oh lord this has derailed into I love my site hooray for TUG. That is all well and good but the fact remains that the resale market is what it is today based off of the same ideas that the thread was originally started on. Why is that $10k+ timeshare only worth $1 on ebay when they sell at the resort for more money?

Among many reasons, one big one comes back to a familiar theme of this discussion. You get what you pay for. (keep in mind there is no such thing as absolute in this environment) Most resale owners aren't treated the same as retail owners. Most resale owners don't have the same priority etc.. as people that bought from the company. It's the same with many products.

You can buy a BMW with a rebuilt title that was in a flood, but BMW won't honor any of the warranties or give the same service as if you bought it off the lot would they?

As far as harmless goes, timeshare owners suffer in resale because consumers control 2nd hand deeds or points. Years of public disdain for timeshare is ultimately the reason the resale market is so cheap. If the overall view was different so would the price. That's why a 10 year old BMW that was in a flood still goes for a decent price. Someone is willing to pay the pinto price for the beamer forgoing the best of that product to settle on whats affordable or cost convenient to the buyer.

So maybe I could spin your site and say TUG is in fact the scammer. Users here act like advocates for timeshare companies with little or no knowledge of company policies etc. then encourage users to RENT their weeks or points rather than own, undercutting the resort companies for your own personal gains. Resale buyers COULD pay more to owners for their timeshares, but ultimately resale buyers are in it for themselves. Taking $20k vacations for $100 purchase prices benefits resale buyers not families looking to sale their timeshares. That sounds pretty scammy to me. Yet again, everyone is ultimately in it for their own personal gain with bottom lines being the goal at the end of the day.

But thats a discussion for another day. :cool:
 
Personally, I think developers are missing the boat. If they did more demographic research on their customer base, they could set up discount sales centers away from resorts and sell resale timeshares at outlet malls or such and make a return as a broker for resales. The model is wrong. Don't take away benefits on resales, make a commission selling them is a different market. Happy customers buy in... Relieved customers exit. Timeshares from the developer start to get a better image as a better value. Two tiers of customers. Focus on truly educating the customer how to use the product with realistic expectations.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
BMWguynw I had to clarify this as well. Sales psychology as a whole rests on the fact that the first no is a smoke screen just to test the water. Sometimes to see if there is a better price. Sometimes to see if the sales rep would still treat a customer the same even after rejecting the product or simply as a "no thanks." Even people who have already decided they wanted to buy something often still say no for the reasons stated above.

As far as "bribery marketing" goes it is a necessary evil in our industry. If you saw a sign that said "free sales presentation that way" would you go? If you decided to go how many people would you see there? That's why resorts are marketed the way they are. Most families feel like they can't approach the sites because of $$$ but throw in a gift and people are happy to have someone tell them it isn't affordable.

As far as sales go, most "sales people" are store guides talking to people who came in with a specific purchase in mind or an idea of what they want or need. Real sales involves turning a couple who made a blood pact to deceive their sales rep by any means necessary (many I saw outlined here on the site. Classic.) to new owners by showing them how the product would benefit them.

Most of you travel this way so is there a benefit?
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155341
 
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things are always going well when you rile up the salesfolk =)

Says alot when you call out tens of thousands of folks on a website, then act surprised when they respond pointing out your ignorance.

(in before the obligatory "oh im not mad/I dont care about any of you...despite taking the time to post countless paragraphs arguing instead" post)

...troll level 10/10...someone needs attention!

ps. Ive edited your title, since clearly you cant read the very TUG posting guidelines you agreed to upon registering here (the irony eh?).
 
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Ha, ha, ha,. I'm going to work now. Thanks for the great laugh. I'll sign off with my favorite advice given to almost everyone who comes on TUG.... Welcome to TUG, learn how to use and enjoy your timeshare. If that's fluff, then give me more!. Chuckle.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
tis your second violation of the posting guidelines you agreed to upon joining, you make a 3rd and you are gone.

although it doesnt surprise me that you either failed to read the rules, or dont think they apply to you given your stated profession.
 
The people that are most unhappy with the timeshare industry are the people who borrowed money to buy retail without doing any research. When their budget gets tight and they can't afford to travel, pay the mortgage, and pay the increasing fees, they are shocked to find out they can't sell it for anything close to the original price. They can't give it away unless they pay off the entire balance of the mortgage and any unpaid fees.

If resales are such a bad deal, developers are scammers for not disclosing how hard it is to get rid of a timeshare when you don't want it anymore.
 
I am not inclined to engage any trolling timeshare sales weasel or his / her lame logic and twisted justifications. Instead, I'll just summarize my own experience, observations and opinions after 30+ years of timeshare ownership (all of it having been acquired in the resale market) and my ongoing and very satisfied use.
Maybe my input is (as our intrepid sales weasel has characterized TUG's collective forum content) "fluff". If you believe that, just ignore accordingly. :rolleyes:

1. Paying grossly inflated developer prices to buy into interval ownership is simply an unnecessary waste of money today, when the exact same product is almost always available in the resale market for just a very tiny fraction of that figure. No amount of creative sales weasel razzamatazz can ever refute or alter that indisputable fact.

2. See item number 1 above. Rinse, lather and repeat. May all developer sales weasels starve and / or seek legitimate work elsewhere. Enough said. :)

P.S. Typing the above took more time than I would ever give any deceitful sales weasel in a "presentation", regardless of the "gift" to attend. YMMV.
 
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I have the following questions:

1. What is your compensation model and what percentage of your compensation is based on commission and what percent of the sales price gets paid to you as comission when you make a sale?

2. There are many resales available through licensed real estate agents, why would those not be acceptable, especially given that prices are so far below the prices offered during sales presentations?

3. How many clients who want to buy have you steared away because they obviously couldn't afford the comittment you were trying to sell them? (e.g. through your discussions with them, you found out that they were facing fincancial difficulties, had low credit scored, etc...)

4. How much emphasis have you made to people about the fact that the process to resell a timeshare is difficult and that when buying, some resorts will make you PAY THEM to take back the dead (if they are even willing to take them back at all). Some resort groups are so consummer unfriendly that they actually create significant hardships that devalue the resale product so much, that the units are near worthless on the resale market through all kinds of rules that disallow resale owners the same reservation windows and benefits that they have on their deed and high transfer fees that are not disclosed during the sales presenation. This makes it hard for people 5-10-20 years down the line who can no longer use their product sell it and get their "investment" back.

5. How often have you advised customers that they should have their attorney read over the paperwork before they sign?

6. Have you ever helped one of your customers create a budget to confirm that they could afford making the payments on the property, and discouraged a customer from putting the payments on a credit card if they carry a balance, discouraged customers who can obviously not afford to buy (don't have enough in savings, are living pay check to pay check etc) from buying??

As an aside, I actually believe that the timeshare model can and does work where the purchase price is a true investment for exactly one resort group (as I have seen with hard numbers). That group is DVC which surprisingly doesn't have all the hidden fees and all the things that make it hard to sell. I know someone who bought at $50 a point in 1991 at OKW and they can now get at least $75 a point (on top of that he got 10 years of Disney tickets as part of his purchase). Ironically, DVC isn't even a real estate investment since it is RTU.
 
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TimeShareProfessional said:
BMWguynw I had to clarify this as well. Sales psychology as a whole rests on the fact that the first no is a smoke screen just to test the water. Sometimes to see if there is a better price. Sometimes to see if the sales rep would still treat a customer the same even after rejecting the product or simply as a "no thanks." Even people who have already decided they wanted to buy something often still say no for the reasons stated above.

As far as "bribery marketing" goes it is a necessary evil in our industry. If you saw a sign that said "free sales presentation that way" would you go? If you decided to go how many people would you see there? That's why resorts are marketed the way they are. Most families feel like they can't approach the sites because of $$$ but throw in a gift and people are happy to have someone tell them it isn't affordable.

As far as sales go, most "sales people" are store guides talking to people who came in with a specific purchase in mind or an idea of what they want or need. Real sales involves turning a couple who made a blood pact to deceive their sales rep by any means necessary (many I saw outlined here on the site. Classic.) to new owners by showing them how the product would benefit them.

Most of you travel this way so is there a benefit?
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155341
Click to expand...

If someone offered you $500 to sit in a chair for 3 hours, would you? Most people don't make more than $150 an hour.

These people aren't there to deceive you, they are at the table for the same reason as you. To make money. They walk in telling you that they have no intention or means to buy, and are only there for the money they were promised. That seems to be the very definition of honesty.
 
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TimeShareProfessional said:
Personally timeshare has changed my life tremendously. Not only in a successful career, but also in my home and family life.
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This tells me all I need to know about your goals here. You claim to be successful in your career selling timeshares. If true, then you have very little benefit by truly understanding why many of us believe the perks/fluff developers add to direct sales vs resale sales are beneficial. While I can appreciate the success you feel in earning a livable wage, it is likely due mostly to uninformed buyers. You may believe your buyers understand what they purchase, but I would bet the vast majority have no concept of the resale market nor the actual differences between them. This site would not exist if developers offered a nice product at a reasonable price (nor the many independent sales organizations and agents who specialize in resale sales).

It is in your interest to create perceived differences between resale and developer purchased weeks, yet the best the industry appears to have done (in large part) is unit view and location, reservation timing, potential upgrade or other minor benefits, conversion to hotel points (if the resort is managed by a large hotel provider), etc. I'm sure your sales presentation emphasizes these benefits and the associated ease of use, though we know better.

You compare resale weeks to a rebuilt BMW with a salvage title, which certainly says a lot about how you approach the distinction between resale and developer purchased weeks. When we stay at a resort the unit we receive likely was occupied by a developer purchaser the week prior and after us. There is no fundamental difference between their stay and mine, with the same access rights at the resort, the same ability to use amenities and services, and the same experience throughout. In most cases the staff at the resort have no idea we are resale purchasers and don't care at all (only the sales office would care...).

We need developer purchasers to keep resorts in business. Keep doing your job, enjoy it, and understand your market (which supposedly is why you are here, based on your first post). Resale purchasers will most likely not buy from you since we do not recognize the benefit that comes from developer perks as being worth the cost.

I also find if fitting that a timeshare salesperson would not spend time reading TUG before posting. You are impatient, and it seems true to your industry not to read the details. That's unfortunate.


Sent from my iPad
 
OP:
Will your company sell and accept financing from a single member LLC, w/o a personal guarantee?
 
Reality warp??

Edited to clarify: Sounds to me like there is a strong reality distortion field surrounding the OP. Getting any real dialog through that field unscathed could be mostly impossible.
 
Timeshares don't hold their value in resale. If I buy it for $20K, then I should be able to pass along all benefits I got to someone else for $20K, but it doesn't work that way. That is why buying developer is a waste of money. It's worse than buying a car new for $20K, and then finding out you could have bought one with 100 miles on it for $500.

But that doesn't happen with cars; it does happen with timeshare.

Of course, Marriott is a little better, as is Hilton and a few others. Very few timeshares pass the same benefits to resale buyers.
 
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Every time I read anti-developer scammer tirades on TUG, it usually irritates me. Don't get me wrong, I would suggest an inquiring TUGger or anyone I know to rescind and buy resale. It makes zero financial sense to me to buy at full retail what I can buy for 0-10% on the dollar. But I don't excoriate all sales weasels for doing what they do. Sales and marketing in any industry is a necessary "evil" to create demand and move product. People do not snub RC Cola because Pepsi tastes better, they buy Pepsi because Pepsico invests billions to create demand for their flavored corn syrup.

Many on TUG are a conflicted bunch. Rant against developers and sales folk while touting the fantastic variety and quality of resorts they stay at. Do you not understand that the variety and quality would absolutely not exist to the extent it does without the very healthy financial incentives of developers to do so? I am all in favor of levels of decency in sales tactics, but I also recognize that "pressure" of some sort is a necessary component to getting people to buy, be it timeshares or cars or whatever.

To OP, you are way off about the fluff and way way off with your analogies. I routinely stay in 4 star 2BR accommodations for under $100 per night all in including acquisition costs. I may not get preferred views or some other retail perks, but my incremental savings over retail exponentially compensate me for those lack of perks. More power to you good sir in your career. The skills of you and your colleagues will allow me to continue to enjoy the immense travel experiences my family has enjoyed over the last 3+ years for many more to come. But just understand that I will encourage my friends and family to always purchase resale.
 
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