Hi, I am a Timeshare salesman who cant read the rules!

[TimeShareProfessional]

Yes I sell timeshare. Yes I've done it for years. Yes it works. (Let's get that out of the way first)

So, the majority of this forum that I've seen (granted I haven't gone over it with a fine toothed comb) is mainly fluff. The views and ideas of timeshare here are soooooo far from accurate (as a whole) it makes me wonder where the bulk of this info actually comes from.

Now, to make the playing field as level as possible, let me lay a quick foundation.

1. Timeshare is not for everyone!!!!! (RESORTS are in high demand, high traffic areas thus the price tag associated)

2. YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR (pardon the caps but we all know this holds true for any product you purchase)

3. Like any business not all companies are going to be reputable. (I don't know about you guys, but I wouldn't go to ebay and buy a cheap Chinese knock off just to say I had an Iphone.)

4. As far as the whole resale market is concerned, good luck. For those of you who have had success with it, congrats! Just know you are the minority. (Also I love the fact that the community here drags timeshare through the mud, yet most people here are either actively traveling or trying to travel this way!)

I would love to hear the communities feedback on why it is a "scam" (I'm so excited to argue with tours who are not actually tours!!! Selling 101 Right or Rich?) So let's have some fun with this.

 

[silentg]

Have you ever heard of buying something on sale?

 

[TimeShareProfessional]

Of course I have. What does "on sale" actually mean though??

 

[tschwa2]

Where do you sell? If it really is a top end place, many here have probably stayed there possibly in the highest season possible, in the nicest unit available, either in a resale at your resort or trading in with our cheap-y timeshares.

Some here have bought retail and are happy with that. Some bought retail even after knowing about resales and about TUG and are still happy with that.
Most know that there are perks available that aren't available resale but resale owners are staying in the exact same resort not in the Chinese knockoff resort.

 

[silentg]

I agree with you! OP sounds confrontational, trying to do a sales presentation on this forum. We are happy with our timeshares, as you can see we have a diverse inventory. Only bought one week from Developer and that too was a resale, actually an upgrade. Been Timesharing since 1981 and love it!
Good luck with your timeshare career, you need to soften your approach, we are not 98% fluff! More like 98% know our stuff and we give and take advice from each other without any monetary gain.
Have a nice evening!
silentg

 

[TimeShareProfessional]

Where I sell has nothing to do with this conversation so I choose not to disclose that information.

There is no doubt in my mind many probably have. That's not the point I'm trying to make. What I'm attempting to do, is clear up what the topic of the post was. Fluff. Again I'm curious why people feel the way that they do about timeshare as whole, especially in a place where most people are actively using the very timeshares they talk about. It's such a big contradiction to the ideology that is spread around this board.

 

[TimeShareProfessional]

Silentg I love your gusto! Thanks for the input. And on the contrary. I do presentations 5 days a week, that's plenty for me! Actually, my aim is to change the long standing misconception of our industry. Especially, on the internet. Personally timeshare has changed my life tremendously. Not only in a successful career, but also in my home and family life. As timeshare owners and travelers, surely you can identify with at least the second half of that statement.

 

[tschwa2]

Most of the regulars here, I would say average 4 or more timeshares. We don't hate them. We know timeshares aren't for everyone and recommend that people don't jump into something they don't understand completely or overpay for what they are getting. We want people to buy something that will work for them and if buying doesn't work then to enjoy them by renting from other owners.

I asked for location not location and company because I was hoping you would say something like Maui and not something like Orlando as an example of high price resort area with high priced resorts.

I would love to compare Oranges to Oranges but without disclosing some specifics how can we dispute that lower resales are available at the exact same locations. Someone tonight was asking about the Hyatt in Maui. There probably aren't any lower priced alternatives at this time. If you want a high floor ocean front 2 br in February, you will have to buy from the developer. Give it a few years. It's still going to have value and will still be higher than I what I could afford even on the resale market but it is going to be substantially lower than the $100,000 for one week that is being sold today.

 

[slip]

You probably should start with an example of the fluff. Most of us here like
Timeshares and what they offer but we by resale. Show us a thread that has
The fluff.

 

[TimeShareProfessional]

Ah. I misunderstood your question, even though it was very vague (where do you sell?) Again it still remains a here nor there scenario because what's expensive for some is reasonable or cheap for others. (Don't get me wrong I'm no bill gates! But I've seen owners stroke checks for $100k+ without batting a lash.)

As far as fluff goes, I mean just the common misconceptions of the industry. The cries of scams, rip-offs, over pricing etc... The bulk of what I've seen (again limited as it may be) pertains to these topics. Did I pay enough attention to link you to every thread? No. On the other hand I think any vets here would agree those topics are far too familiar here.

 

[DaveNV]

I think you're missing a strong element of what TUG is all about. It is not a place to denigrate timeshares, timesharing, or timeshare owners. It is a knowledge-sharing forum to help owners and potential owners to get the best bang for their timeshare buck, regardless of how they acquired the timeshares they may have. The vast majority of opinions expressed here are from people who have very real experience in timesharing, and who choose to share their experience for the benefit of others. Nobody here is paid for their services, but everyone is paid a tremendous dividend by understanding the reality of what timesharing is, and how it works. I would venture that the majority of TUG members think of timesharing as a positive thing in their lives, because they are educated about how best to use it.

In timesharing, knowledge can be a powerful thing. Knowing how best to use what they own goes a long way toward helping that owner get the most from their ownership. And knowledgeable owners aren't as likely to fall for the lies being told by slick salespeople of those same timeshares who prey on emotion and unsuspecting people.

Tricking people into boiler room high-pressure sales experiences indicates pretty loudly that the industry is not being honest with what they sell. If it was such a straightforward product, available for a fair market price, the buying public would be much more willing to buy in, and would have much more positive things to say. The negative attitude generally held about timesharing did not come from TUG - it came from bitter people who feel they were taken advantage of by fast-talking salespeople, and who did not receive the things they believe they were promised.

TUG is a huge site, with a tremendous amount of very free information. Spend some time and study the place. It may help you to better understand the people you want to sell to.

Dave

 

[tschwa2]

Without any specifics, I think you have more misconceptions about what this site is about than we have about timeshares and timeshare sales.


I could probably count on one hand the places where you can not buy resale for much less than retail while enjoying 90% or more of the same benefits enjoyed by retail owners and those benefits that don't transfer being worth about 1% in the difference in pricing. Even the ones that you can not buy resale something that has most of the original benefits, the only reason to buy at those places are to go to that resort most of the time and any reason other than that really doesn't work if you look at the numbers carefully.

 

[TimeShareProfessional]

Thanks for the input Dave. I have seen the site only a handful of times and I was very upfront with that information. Every time I have happened upon the site it has been linked from google for things I mentioned earlier. While the title may seem a little rash, I meant for it to grab users attention.

As far as the industry goes, It's far from perfect I will agree. But for the same reason you speak your opinion about my ideas, I do the same. For example; the "boiler room" scenario in timeshare presentations is all but dead. That is an idea that has lingered from the 80/90's when timeshare was in its wild west phase. That's where things like rescission came from. Also imho the classic "sleeze bag" sales tag that is attached to anybody in the sales industry is crap. I have never twisted, turned, pressured etc... anybody that I have sold in my career. I have owners to this day who call and thank me and send post cards etc. for help them.

 

[bastroum]

I love timeshares. I own 20 weeks. Some I bought from developers. Most resale. I have been on dozens of presentations and I can tell you this. NOT ONE TIMESHARE PRESENTATION EVER DISCUSSES THE DOWNSIDE OF OWNING THESE WEEKS. You gloss over how easy it is to trade and go anywhere. You lie by omitting the truth regarding it's value. It takes years to understand how to use timeshares properly. They are not for everyone. This forum teaches people how to use them properly and avoid the pitfalls that are never explained at the sales presentations. One could NEVER explain how to properly purchase and utilize a timeshare in 90 minutes. I manage a sales force for a living and I've never have seen a group of people more dishonest in their presentations than timeshare salespeople.

 

[TimeShareProfessional]

tschwa2 resale is a very shaky side of timeshare. Can it work? Absolutely! You guys are proof that it can. Realistically speaking though: if you see a retail price of say $20k and a resale on ebay for $1 why is the retail automatically a scam?

 

[TimeShareProfessional]

bastroum These are some of the things I wanted to talk about. First and foremost, how much do you pay your clients to come and look at you product?

 

[ronparise]

Very few here drag timeshares through the mud For the most part we are happy owners. What I object to is the way they are sold And contrary to what you say; In the timeshare world you don't get what you pay for. And while you may sell in high demand areas there is no demand for what you sell. The demand has to be created.! That marketing costs and commissions are over 50 percent of the purchase price is proof of that. Timeshares are sold. Not bought. Wyndhams costs of goods sold is at about 16%. Clearly someone that pays $100 for $16 worth of product is not getting value for his dollar

What I bought on eBay for $7000 last week is worth exactly $7000 and it is the very same thing Wyndham is selling for $100000. From where I sit, Timeshares aren't a scam but tell that to the guy sleeping in the room next to mine after he learns what I paid.

 

[TimeShareProfessional]

ronparise Thanks for your input. Have you ever stayed at a hotel before?

 

[tschwa2]

The boiler room is alive and well in hundreds of resorts in the US and Mexico everyday. So right there I think you are the one with the misconceptions because you haven't experienced as much as those here. When updates or presentations are informative and low pressure, members love to give kudos and shout outs. These are the exceptions.

I have been to probably about 7 updates in my lifetime. I have probably been asked to about 40 in person during vacation stays and at least 20 every year over the phone. I've been to only one that didn't have at least one typical "sleazebag" on one layer or another that you meet with before saying good bye for the day.

 

[ronparise]

tschwa2 resale is a very shaky side of timeshare. Can it work? Absolutely! You guys are proof that it can. Realistically speaking though: if you see a retail price of say $20k and a resale on ebay for $1 why is the retail automatically a scam?

It's a scam because if I can buy it for a dollar it is worth a dollar not $20000
if you are able to get $20000 it is thievery

 

[slip]

I guess what I don't like about the original post is that it says 98% of the site
Is fluff but later on you say you have only seen some posts through Google and
A little looking around. If your going to say the site is 98% fluff, it should be
Very easy to provide an example.

As to some of your follow ups. Would you pay $20,000 for something you can
Get for $1.00? Some people would call that a scam alone.

 

[TimeShareProfessional]

tschwa2 Sales reps feel the same way about tours, as tours feel about sales reps. I can't tell you all the terms there are for people that take timeshare tours but "moochers" is one of the more popular.

A lot of sales people in general get frustrated with not selling etc.. so they can be high strung. Consumers on the other hand take money and gifts to take sells presentations and then act appalled when they are asked to buy something. At a sales presentation!!!! I can't tell you how many times I've heard people cry wolf "Oh high pressure" because they are asked to purchase. I can't speak for everyone but there is a big difference in high pressure and asking someone to buy. Also, after the first "owner update" why go back if you don't want anymore? Reps get paid to sell. So to accept monetary gain is subjecting yourself to that environment.

 

[bastroum]

How about adding a disclosure form in your sales packet. It should state "I understand that I am able to purchase this same timeshare interval on the secondary market for a discount of 80% off the price I am paying. I voluntarily chose to purchase from the developer at the higher price." If the purchaser had to sign that truthful disclosure of value, how many weeks do you think you could sell?

 

[DaveNV]

Thanks for the input Dave. I have seen the site only a handful of times and I was very upfront with that information. Every time I have happened upon the site it has been linked from google for things I mentioned earlier. While the title may seem a little rash, I meant for it to grab users attention.

As far as the industry goes, It's far from perfect I will agree. But for the same reason you speak your opinion about my ideas, I do the same. For example; the "boiler room" scenario in timeshare presentations is all but dead. That is an idea that has lingered from the 80/90's when timeshare was in its wild west phase. That's where things like rescission came from. Also imho the classic "sleeze bag" sales tag that is attached to anybody in the sales industry is crap. I have never twisted, turned, pressured etc... anybody that I have sold in my career. I have owners to this day who call and thank me and send post cards etc. for help them.

Visiting TUG based on a Google link has more to do with the spiders and bots that read the site to create keywords for that link, than it does for the vast majority of the threads and forums on the site. TUG is huge, and most of the content never makes it outside of the TUG website. So you need to weigh those links with a certain amount of skepticism. TUG is much more than that. I learn something new every time I come here, and while much of what is posted doesn't apply to me, there have been many invaluable tips and tricks to things that I've learned here, that has helped educate me about the timesharing industry, traveling to and from resorts, the resorts themselves, air travel, car rental, and a bunch of other stuff. It's collectively very helpful.

The sales attitude you reference may be the new trend, but it is not the historical experience of many current timeshare owners. Based on the horror stories told by those who had no idea what they were walking into, I'd say your experience in the industry is pretty rare. There are countless people who signed on the dotted line only to get out the door - rescission was never mentioned, and they didn't find out about it till too late to rescind.

Many others will tell stories of attending a "friendly 90 minute informational meeting" (or whatever it was called) in exchange for receiving a gift of some sort, only to be made to feel like they were being held hostage, for a period of time much greater than the 90 minutes they were promised. They are the ones who speak the loudest about how badly they were treated, and not just on TUG.

If the timeshare sales industry as a whole is changing, the experience needs to change for the average person on the street, and it needs to start with the people who are doing the selling. As long as people feel they have to run away from the experience, the industry will continue to have a black eye.

I have no axe to grind with you, or with the industry as a whole. But my eyes are wide open to the pitfalls of the situation, and I don't attend sales presentations. Any industry that sells on commission, as timeshare sales generally are, and that has to misrepresent the product of the sales experience, is going to be a breeding ground for disreputable liars who will say anything to make a sale. It's the nature of the beast.

If you were to create a poll thread and ask TUG visitors how they'd rate each timeshare sales experience they've ever attended, my strong feeling is the vast majority would rate it in a negative way. That's a lot of baggage to overcome, if your goal is to convince people that timeshare sales is a positive thing.

Dave

 

[TimeShareProfessional]

It's a scam because if I can buy it for a dollar it is worth a dollar not $20000
if you are able to get $20000 it is thievery

Most times in that scenario it's the classic too good to be true scenario. In my experience those listings are either back logged with years of unpaid maintenance fees, or the people that bought it either couldn't afford it in the first place or have run into a situation where now it is no longer affordable.

Another good portion are the you get what you pay for scenario I introduced earlier. A lot of those timeshares were bought very inexpensively to begin with, sold with the thought they could buy the off season 1 bedroom in the middle of nowhere and exchange it for the (insert dream trip here.) The reality is they were definitely shown the top of the line first. Once it was established that they wanted it but it wasn't affordable they bought what they were comfortable with. Most times leading to utter disappointment when it "wasn't what they were sold/told on presentation."

Its like cell phones. I can buy a $700 smart phone attached to no company and I have an expensive paper weight/ facebook device or I can buy one on ebay AS IS with no guarantees other than whats in the ad. Or I can sign a 2yr contract, get the phone much cheaper and have SERVICE attached to it. How did you buy your phone?