Hi, I am a Timeshare salesman who cant read the rules!

[taterhed]

Can't you just smell the bait?.


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[Jason245]

And finally, if resale is such a great value and you all seem to be against the weasel developers, why not pay more for the resale? Why not help the very people you attempt to "defend" with your TUG jobs (sorry too good to pass up moderators) by simply saying something along the lines of:

"You know what, that awful company over charged you for that timeshare. I feel your pain. Wow! You paid $20k for that timeshare yet your listing it for $100. Rather than rip you off, why don't I pay you $6k" Thats 1/3 the retail price. Seems pretty fair for both sides.

The reality of the situation is what I said earlier. You care as much about that person as you say the developers do. The full scope is this. If sou spend $2500 a year RENTING vacations for the next 10 years you will spend $25000 correct?

If you spend $20k on a timeshare, use it for 10 years and then sell it for $100 did you not get a better return on your vacation dollar and have more quality vacations for the same money?? I know most of you have heard the example in same shape, form or fashion yet it's true. Renters don't sell receipts, owners have an opportunity to recoup at least some of the dollars they traveled on. :deadhorse:

*Mic drop*

How many of your former clients who have found themselves in hard financial straights have you helped when they can no longer afford the product you sold them?

Tug on average (based on my review of the message board ) seems to help at least one person a week who finds themselves in these situations by giving advise to prevent these people falling for scammers and others trying to take advantage and providing a resale market where timeshares Are listed as low as free to as high as thousands to tens of thousands of dollars. All that for nothing or next to nothing.

 

[TJC]

If you spend $20k on a timeshare, use it for 10 years and then sell it for $100 did you not get a better return on your vacation dollar and have more quality vacations for the same money??*

I can appreciate the point that you are trying to make, however, like many of your fellow salesman, you forget that there are maintenance fees every year. So $20k + ($2k * 10) = $40k for 10 years of the same vacations.

 

[Jason245]

Also I'm pretty disappointed no one even attempted to answer the fine example I posted earlier in the thread. Ultimately the answer would have been both timeshares and BMW are known for luxury. While BMW has enjoyed praise, timeshare is essentially thrown under the bus. Keep in mind both are indeed LUXURY items.

I am confused about this BMW comparison. When I walk into a BMW shop and buy one, there is a sales man who sells me the car. 3,5,10 years later, when I walk back into the same shop (and see the same sales guy), he will Buy my car (without me buying a car from him or spending a penny out of pocket) from me for cash.

If during year 2 of my ownership, I lose my job and can no longer afford to make payments, The dealer is usually more then happy to buy my car back for a FMV as valued by a third party (kelly blue book, edmunds, etc).

To the best of my knowledge this is not the case with a timeshare (although I am confident you or someone else can chime in).

 

[tante]

This sales guy is making some of the dumbest analogies i have ever heard.

 

[ronparise]

Also I'm pretty disappointed no one even attempted to answer the fine example I posted earlier in the thread. Ultimately the answer would have been both timeshares and BMW are known for luxury. While BMW has enjoyed praise, timeshare is essentially thrown under the bus. Keep in mind both are indeed LUXURY items.

Ronpraise? Hotels are simply a product. If you pay attention to them, 1 in 3 or 4 tv commercials is a hotel advertisement ie Priceline, Expedia etc... If you were to book a room at your favorite hotel, you would most likely use one of these sites to do so. If you knocked on 10 doors on the same floor, do you think everyone paid the same rate??

Lets say it costs $10mil to build a new Hilton hotel with 120 rooms. Each room goes for an avg. of $119. Do that math for a day, then a week, then a month and then finally a year.

Yet hotels are not a scam Have you ever lost sleep at said hotel wondering what your neighbor paid? Personally it has never crossed my mind.

Hotels are a one time rental if I find out I could have gotten the same space at half the price I'll learn from that and do better next time. Timeshares are forever
If I make a mistake it's tough to recover Comparing the purchase of a time share, a lifetime of memories, with a hotel, no more than a one night stand just doesn't work. (Although I do have fond memories of a few one night stands)

I think you started this telling us that most of what you see here is fluff and that most of us don't know much about timeshares. I hope you are learning that we know more than you think. I would bet that some some of us own more timeshares than you have sold in your career. And I am in awe of the experience and knowledge that so many bring to this forum

I can't figure out your angle here. You had to know you weren't going to make a sale. Or change any minds. That's the downside of all our knowledge and experience; we are pretty set in our ways

Perhaps if you had come to us with a little humility and respect. And ask for our help. I know I've referred several people to a certain Wyndham salesman and i will again when I think it's the right thing for the person I'm advising. And I've made purchases myself from the same salesman. You see we respect one another.
Sorry to talk to you like a child but at my age I suspect I could be your grandfather and you sound so damned immature

 

[TimeShareProfessional]

1. Depends on the size of the sell. Bank! (Not going to divulge but it pays well... 6 figures if you are good)

2. See cell phone analogy

3. 100% of the families on timeshare presentations are on vacation spending money to travel. Most already have a yearly commitment to travel 1,2 or 3 times a year. Regardless of a timeshare, they chose those travel habits (hence everyone on presentation is from somewhere else) that they have based on their families wants, needs or interest in vacationing.

Whether they buy a timeshare or not, the vacation will always be there for the reasons they travel. The investment and the commitment are both made to the family, not the timeshare. The reality of the situation is they are committed to spending the money if they choose to travel. Vacation is never free.

As a whole, families in bad financial situations typically don't travel, especially not to resort areas where the cost is usually always greater.

4.Timeshare should never be sold as an "investment" to be flipped for monetary gain. Have you ever gone on vacation and wondered how much you could make for doing it? Like I said earlier, stay at the same hotel for the next 20 years. Let the owner and staff get to know you and your family so well they know your kids and how well they do at sports. On year 21 with a relationship built to this magnitude, Walk and see if the owner offers you a deed to one of the hotel rooms or has his money out for you to pay again for the same room to rent.

5. Do you call your attorney and ask him when, where or how you should go on vacation??? Does he pay your way or offer advice on the best bang for your buck?? Or do you go where you want to go and spend what you want?

6. Budgets are always discussed when considering if you should purchase a timeshare or not. Do you ever sit down and calculate how much $$ you have spent in the past and will spend in the future?? That's you budget right there.

 

[Jason245]

Calm down everybody I was busy welcoming a new family to the wonderful world of timeshare. I will respond to everyone just give me a few... Sales weasel is pretty funny! Actually I have a B.A. in Comp Sci but I work less and make wayyyyy more helping families IMPROVE their vacation life style.

Why the name calling??? Are you guys all doctors or something...

So as an educated professional who got their degree, you fully understand where the economy is going.

The generation you are selling to has more information then ever, and is asking for advise and opinions in order to make purchasing decisions. They are using the internet to fact check.

Tug is not anti developer, TUG is PRO an informed and educated consumer. About half of all people on this board made their first purchase from a developer.

A number of sales people are not forthright with their customers, do not tell them about all the costs, extra costs (possibilities for assessments), the dificulties liquidating an ownership, the extra fees to transfer ownership, the limited reservation windows, and other limitations of a timeshare, while instead focusing on the positive aspects of ownership. That sales strategy works on an uneducated consumer base with no access to information. If you are upfront with your customers, Treat them in a way that ensures they fully understand what they are signing up for, act in a morally responsible way towards those who can not afford the "luxury" you are selling and don't treat them as a giant check, great for you because you will succeed in the comming changing economy. Most are not that way, but they have great conversion rates and it will last for a time. If you don't believe me, just ask the Admissions employees at For Profit Higher Education, In that instance Goverment money is what caused a significant acceleration in administrative action, Time shares will be slower, but within the next 10 years I expect significant changes.

 

[Ken555]

This is a joke, and a waste of time. He's not offering anything new and simply deflecting the valid points made in this thread by many. Timeshare sales love comparisons since it's so difficult for buyers to comprehend how to rationalize a timeshare purchase, especially an expensive unit. I suspect this thread is just for entertainment.


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[RX8]

This is a joke, and a waste of time. He's not offering anything new and simply deflecting the valid points made in this thread by many. Timeshare sales love comparisons since it's so difficult for buyers to comprehend how to rationalize a timeshare purchase, especially an expensive unit. I suspect this thread is just for entertainment.


Sent from my iPad

Agree.

I think he is trolling to gather information on how to counter timeshare presentation victims who are resistant to saying yes.

Buying a timeshare retail isn't any different than paying $100 for a bottle of ketchup. The timeshare salesmen need all the "fluff" they can come up with to convince the buyer the ketchup is REALLY good.

 

[TimeShareProfessional]

Tante which one? Or is that just a sheeple move to fit in with your peers....

Ron most families stay in hotels year after year when they vacation. It is a billion dollar industry. Unless you do alternatives like timeshares you pay those prices every year. In the example given to you, That's $5.2mil a year. Take out staff cost upkeep etc. that's a good profit.

If you break it down as a single family who vacations 2 weeks a year, That would be $1666 a year on a hotel room. With all the crap and lack of amenities and quality that hotels are known for. In 10 years that's $17000 without inflation and a guarantee you will do it for the next 10, 15 or 20 years with no potential for any resell unless you keep your receipts and post them on ebay. (good luck!)

Never came to sell anyone anything... believe what you will. Facts are facts.

You refer people to buy retail when your on a resale website GGz makes a lot of sense. Talk how you'd like, but I guarantee your parents nor your grandparents for the matter raised you to believe renting was better than owning. Age is not always wisdom my friend.

 

[TimeShareProfessional]

Jason I'm 32 its my generation. I sold a couple just today in my same age bracket with smart phones in tow. RETAIL.

Ken and Rx elaborate please. Comparison is breaking down data. How else can you say it is a good or bad move?? Waiting.

 

[tante]

Any analogy to compare a timeshare to a car, cell phone, or hotel room is absolutely ridiculous.

 

[TimeShareProfessional]

Any analogy to compare a timeshare to a car, cell phone, or hotel room is absolutely ridiculous.

Again now's your chance to show me in front of your peers. How is it ridiculous???

All are prime examples given in proper context. Deflate them please.

 

[Jason245]

1. Depends on the size of the sell. Bank! (Not going to divulge but it pays well... 6 figures if you are good)

2. See cell phone analogy

3. 100% of the families on timeshare presentations are on vacation spending money to travel. Most already have a yearly commitment to travel 1,2 or 3 times a year. Regardless of a timeshare, they chose those travel habits (hence everyone on presentation is from somewhere else) that they have based on their families wants, needs or interest in vacationing.

Whether they buy a timeshare or not, the vacation will always be there for the reasons they travel. The investment and the commitment are both made to the family, not the timeshare. The reality of the situation is they are committed to spending the money if they choose to travel. Vacation is never free.

As a whole, families in bad financial situations typically don't travel, especially not to resort areas where the cost is usually always greater.

4.Timeshare should never be sold as an "investment" to be flipped for monetary gain. Have you ever gone on vacation and wondered how much you could make for doing it? Like I said earlier, stay at the same hotel for the next 20 years. Let the owner and staff get to know you and your family so well they know your kids and how well they do at sports. On year 21 with a relationship built to this magnitude, Walk and see if the owner offers you a deed to one of the hotel rooms or has his money out for you to pay again for the same room to rent.

5. Do you call your attorney and ask him when, where or how you should go on vacation??? Does he pay your way or offer advice on the best bang for your buck?? Or do you go where you want to go and spend what you want?

6. Budgets are always discussed when considering if you should purchase a timeshare or not. Do you ever sit down and calculate how much $$ you have spent in the past and will spend in the future?? That's you budget right there.

1. So unlike a real estate agent with a license you will not disclose your comissions, that is ok, I will make a rough guestemate. Based on a conversion rate of say 1/8 and an average sale of ~$20k. I would estimate that comission is sitting somewhere in the 25-30% range (or ~$5-6K). If you understand economics, you will understand that this undisclosed selling cost artificially inflates the price of the product (so all of a sudden we go from a $20k unit to something that the developer even acknowledges is only worth 14k)

2. I don't know what this cell phone analogy is, or missed it between all the other stuff you wrote.

3. I think you are missing one key component. With a timeshare, the individual is committed to spending money even if they are unable to travel, can no longer afford to travel, or chose not to travel. While you are willing to sell them the product, you do not disclose or offer them an avenue to terminate the product.

And families, even those in low financial situations DO travel. They fly budget airlines, or save for years for their chance to go to places like Orlando. Sometimes they are even offered discounted hotel rooms if they attend a presentation. When in the presentation, the get enamored by what may be instead of what is for them and buy products that they know they can't afford, and that a sales person who truely cared about their customer knew that that person shouldn't buy. Once they get home (usually after the glitz has worn off and the recision period has ended) and they get their first invoice and realize they really can't afford what they are sold and when they call to try and cancel the contract are told to go pound sand. At that point, they end up on TUG begging for help and this community does the best they can to help them understand their options and avoid falling for scams since the resorts, developers and sales people are unwilling to support these people.

4. Umm, I have had great relationships with Hotel Staff (having on occasion spent up to 2 months on or off in hotels for work reasons). Not only do they offer me extra accomodations, free additional items, have even provided me with free or heavily discounted rooms for being a preferred client. I currently hold high level status with 3 multinational hotel chains and thanks to all the Hotel points I have racked up, I have stayed in rooms that cost upwards of $1500 a night for free. Similarly, thanks to frequent flyer miles, I have flown Business and FIRST class multiple times across the atlantic in seats that sell commercially for anywhere from 5-15K.

5. I call an attorney when I sign a complex legal document with significant financial ramifications. Would you as an educated person with a degree encourage your friends or family to do anything less or would you encourage them to spend thousands of dollars without even understanding what they are signing? Out of curiosity, how many pages do you make someone sign when they are buying? How many pages is the contract they are signing? What font and size is the contract they are signing?

6. I don't think you understand what a budget is. you just defined a forcasted spending projection (My own term, since there is a key component missing from your definition). A budget is a much more precise personal financial planning tool helping people Manage their finances instead of letting their finances manage them (usually by using forcasted spending projections). More specifically, it takes into account INCOME in addition to EXPENSES in order to allow people to manage their cash outflows, understand both inflows and outflows, plan and SAVE. For example, under your definition, someone can look at their spending last month and see that they spent $1,000 and forcast that they are going to spend about the same every month ($12k/year). If that person only makes $900/month, then that spending pattern is not sustainable.

 

[tante]

I see what you are doing now. You are looking for material to improve your sales argument. On second thought keep telling people that buying a timeshare resale is like buying a cell phone on ebay. That is perfect.

 

[Jason245]

Jason I'm 32 its my generation. I sold a couple just today in my same age bracket with smart phones in tow. RETAIL.

Ken and Rx elaborate please. Comparison is breaking down data. How else can you say it is a good or bad move?? Waiting.

It is my generation too. I am not talking about this generation. I am talking about what is to come with the people who are in their teens and early 20s. The people who will be in financial posiitons for those luxuries in the next 10-20 years. The ones who grew up on Facebook, the internet and who are more and more willing to buy everything from real estate to cars and boats ONLINE. The ones who can't seem to have phone conversations and instead prefer to text. The people who grew up on Google, use Reddit and actually look for places like TUG.

 

[Jason245]

I see what you are doing now. You are looking for material to improve your sales argument. On second thought keep telling people that buying a timeshare resale is like buying a cell phone on ebay. That is perfect.

I bought a great cell phone on Ebay. It was brand new, $150 less then the retailer and At&T even gave me $100 for connecting it. Assuming you can afford it, it is probably the best way to buy a phone. Generally, my recommendation is to buy a 1 year old manufacturer refurbished phone. It is usually about 3/4 to half the price of a new one and has most of the same features and abilities.

 

[Jason245]

Again now's your chance to show me in front of your peers. How is it ridiculous???

All are prime examples given in proper context. Deflate them please.

I think I have already deflated them or is there one I am missing?

I know you think you have a great job and are selling a product you seem to believe in. I think the disconnect is that you may not realize that when you sell the product, for some of your customers, there are downstream consequences, and instead of working with those people, Developers and resorts tell those people to go pound sand because they want their pound of flesh. When that happens the only honest people they can turn to is TUG.

A car can be sold two years later right back to the person who sold it to them and that person can walk away with cash.

I don't know your cell phone analogy.

As for hotel rooms, do people pay different prices for the same product, YES, all the time, from cars, to Flights, to hotel rooms and rental cars. The difference is that these are not perpetual financial obligations with no support for eliminating that obligation when the person is no longer able to fulfill it.

 

[Jason245]

Tante which one? Or is that just a sheeple move to fit in with your peers....

Ron most families stay in hotels year after year when they vacation. It is a billion dollar industry. Unless you do alternatives like timeshares you pay those prices every year. In the example given to you, That's $5.2mil a year. Take out staff cost upkeep etc. that's a good profit.

If you break it down as a single family who vacations 2 weeks a year, That would be $1666 a year on a hotel room. With all the crap and lack of amenities and quality that hotels are known for. In 10 years that's $17000 without inflation and a guarantee you will do it for the next 10, 15 or 20 years with no potential for any resell unless you keep your receipts and post them on ebay. (good luck!)

Never came to sell anyone anything... believe what you will. Facts are facts.

You refer people to buy retail when your on a resale website GGz makes a lot of sense. Talk how you'd like, but I guarantee your parents nor your grandparents for the matter raised you to believe renting was better than owning. Age is not always wisdom my friend.

Lets use your math.

TS purchase price - $20k
annual MF $1500

Air BNB/home away cost/Hotel cost:
$1700/Year.

TS savings
$200/Year.

Number of years until you earned back your initial purchase price in savings?

 

[TimeShareProfessional]

1. *6 -15% depending on doen payment, tour source etc. 25% would be crazy money!!!!

2. read bottom half of page 1

3. Was explained pretty well. How do you vacation??

4. Do you pay for those rooms out of pocket or does your company?

5. Closings are handled by deeders. I would say 15-25 pages with all info. That's the purchase proposal, all fees laid out for each portion of the time share (maintenance, taxes, exchange program...) 12 I would assume. this isn't 1980 no one hides small print anymore...

6. I'm speaking solely about vacationing dollars. No one goes on vacation with the light bill... if they do they most likely realize from the jump they can't afford a timeshare. When families vacation they know what their budget allows. Once that travel is established, the budget doesn't change that much because what can be spent comfortably has been established. Again, what are your vacation habits??

 

[Timeshare Von]

Also I'm pretty disappointed no one even attempted to answer the fine example I posted earlier in the thread. Ultimately the answer would have been both timeshares and BMW are known for luxury. While BMW has enjoyed praise, timeshare is essentially thrown under the bus. Keep in mind both are indeed LUXURY items. <<SNIPPED>>

I do not agree with your assessment that timeshares are a luxury item. Like I said in my post earlier, I bought my first one as a single 20-something. I think I was making around $20k/year at the time. That was the early 1980's.

Many of the timeshare companies refer to the money a person spends on timeshare ownership as "anyway money" . . . but folks who take a vacation will spend the money anyway.

I find it really ironic that you say timeshares are luxury items when all timeshare sales people try to get people to realize "even they" can afford a timeshare ownership and travel in luxury WITHOUT paying the way high "resort" expenses for lodging.

 

[e.bram]

OP:
Are you seyer can choose lling fixed week fixed unit TSes where the buyer can choose their unit. OR, points selling everyone the ocean-view, summer week?

 

[Timeshare Von]

<<snipped>>

And families, even those in low financial situations DO travel.

Since 2000, I've been unemployed for about as much time as I've been employed. Thanks largely to timeshare ownership, I've been able to travel with my family like a rock star!

So yes, even those during financial low points, travel and vacation.

 

[TimeShareProfessional]

Tante read a few more books then rejoin the conversation

Jason A for effort. maint on 20k timeshare usually in the 7-900 range.

Timeshare vacation comes with way more space (something all hotels have and one of the biggest gripes I hear everyday) a full kitchen that can cut food cost tremendously (we don't talk about food cost too often because you have to eat regardless but most families at home don't eat out 3 times a day.) Free activities that can easily cut entertainment cost in half or more (free water parks, mini golf, ziplines, rockwall climbing swimming pools etc..) and conveniences like 24hr security, free transportaion restaurants and groceries on property etc... that will never be included in a hotel cost.

Most families find the most amount of stars for the least amount of money within their vacation budget (usually around $100 a night) to figure out how much money they will spend to be away from their "nice" expensive hotel room. You can actually relax in a resort setting and there are plenty of things to do at the property you are staying on. Making area attractions an option not an absolute.

So push your 1700 to 3-4000 if not more.