HGV agrees to purchase BlueGreen Vacations

[dougp26364]

I certainly don't agree with that statement. That would give HVC members an unfair advantage by allowing them to book our resort during our club season. Marriot, Vistana, Westin and Sheraton resorts are all of equal quality (as I understand those resorts) so for me that is a very significant difference. Look at the quality of the Hilton resorts. If anyone wants access to HVC resorts then purchase a trust-contract with HVC.
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I read similar comments of MVC, Vistana, Sheraton and Westin owners. It really hasn’t been an issue there snd wouldn’t be at Hilton.
Timeshare salesmen have done such a great job pushing fear among owners that this irrational response is predictable

 

[sponger76]

I just don’t think an Orlando resort is their flagship resort

From my experience at their sales presentations that seems to be the way Bluegreen itself markets it, both Fountains and the Wilderness Club at Big Cedar.

 

[dougp26364]

I agreed with the above posts. Hilton is using the money from DRI reserved funds resorts to upgrade these Diamond Resorts to Hilton standards.

Unless things changed since we left DRI, there wasn’t a lot of money being put into those reserves and this not a lot of money to use. Besides, whose money do you think supplies the balance for those reserve funds? To find the answer look for the line item “cash reserves” on your MF bill

 

[rapmarks]

From my experience at their sales presentations that seems to be the way Bluegreen itself markets it, both Fountains and the Wilderness Club at Big Cedar.

Yes wilderness club

 

[dioxide45]

As far as I can tell, HGV is using corporate funds to rebrand the former DRI resorts. Just because the HVC are rebranded to "Hilton standards" (I don't even know what that means) doesn't mean that they are of the same quality as the HGVC resorts (look at the graphic in post #249).

Brining most of the resorts up to standard simply required new signage and new bedding. Every hotel brand seems to have their brand standard in bedding so they can sell that same bedding online. From what I understand HGV was paying for the initial upgrades, but if rooms and the resort required physical upgrades (villa renovations) to bring them up to standard, those costs would be paid for by the resort HOAs.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

[TLDR. HGVC is not marketing to us. They are positioning for the next gen with lower cost entry and events. MVC has doubled down on existing model. Will it survive as owners age out?]

We own in both HGVC and MVC/Vistana. Both systems have their pluses and minuses.

IMO HGVC is positioning for the future by appealing to a younger demographic though lower cost entry and experience events which is what this demographic wants. I read somewhere that the sales close rate for experience-based presentations is much higher than traditional presentation.

MVC is doubling down on its existing high-end model. While I love Vistana and the ability to use staroptions and enrolled points for other MVC, it makes me wonder what will happen when all the owners age out? Will the high-end condo on a golf course or beach be enough to appeal to the next generation?

MVC/Vistana maint fees at some resorts are starting to approach uncompetitive levels compared to renting in the low seasons. Will silver and gold owners walk? Yes you can throw it into the trust but the trust cost increasing 15% -20% this year to already high trust per point cost does not help. Given MVC recent poor financials it makes me wonder if they might need to change course.

In addition, MVC and HVC must pare down their portfolio and dump the poorly performing dogs in their trust. That would involve entire resorts or buildings, you can't just dump silver and gold season because it involves the same condo.

The way they have designed Max is perfect for HGVC per @GT75 comments above. MVC/Vistana owners tend to use their home week, HGVC owners tend to use Club points at 9 months. Combining Max at same time like MVC trust would be a disaster for the system because points traders who do not use home week would walk.

Would new BG owners who signed up be disappointed? Maybe but when you pay for a Hampton you do not expect the Waldorf. They bought based on something they like at BG or DRI/HGVC. Maybe it was a BassPro shop event or a festival or location or the low entry cost. Who knows?

Younger gen also do not have same expectations as we do. I remember being perfectly happy with a tent in a campground. I was happy to be on vacation and staying on the couch at a friends or on a mat on the floor was no big deal.

Although we may not see value, we need to remember they are not marketing to us. We made our purchases and pay MF; and it is diminishing returns to sell more. We are the cash cows. The younger generation is the future of the system.

My .01 cents worth.

 

[dioxide45]

IMO HGVC is positioning for the future by appealing to a younger demographic though lower cost entry and experience events which is what this demographic wants. I read somewhere that the sales close rate for experience-based presentations is much higher than traditional presentation.

MVC is doubling down on its existing high-end model. While I love Vistana and the ability to use statoptions and enrolled points for other MVC, it makes me wonder what will happen when all the owners age out? Will the high-end condo on a golf course appeal to the next generation?

Marriott tried the lower cost entry point for younger families two decades ago. It failed miserably. Perhaps things have changed in those 20 years, but the difference between $20,000 and $50,000 for a timeshare probably makes little difference to a young family trying to get started in life. I don't know that targeting a younger demograpic makes HGV better positioned than say MVC. At some point the younger demographic gets established and gets older. Those young people who wouldn't buy in their 20s and 30s have different priorities in their 50s. They also won't travel the same when they get older. While owners will age out, there are other owners there to replace them. The question is, will the rate of replacement cover the rate of those leaving.

You are right about the closing rates on experienced based presentations. Mike Flaskey mentioned in an interview I watched that they were as much as three times higher. This is why these experiences usually require attendance at a timeshare presentation.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Marriott tried the lower cost entry point for younger families two decades ago. It failed miserably. Perhaps things have changed in those 20 years, but the difference between $20,000 and $50,000 for a timeshare probably makes little difference to a young family trying to get started in life. I don't know that targeting a younger demograpic makes HGV better positioned than say MVC. At some point the younger demographic gets established and gets older. Those young people who wouldn't buy in their 20s and 30s have different priorities in their 50s. They also won't travel the same when they get older. While owners will age out, there are other owners there to replace them. The question is, will the rate of replacement cover the rate of those leaving.

You are right about the closing rates on experienced based presentations. Mike Flaskey mentioned in an interview I watched that they were as much as three times higher. This is why these experiences usually require attendance at a timeshare presentation.

Good point on MVC past effort. It could have been the reasons you state or timing.

One thing I know for sure. Most HGVC and MVC owners purchased at a much lower retail cost $15 -$50k 10 -20 years ago.

Now I see retail deeds and MVC trust going regularly for $60k to $130k. This is not sustainable. With a few exceptions, I do not think the next gen middle-class as they age and become more stable financially could afford these levels upon entry.

 

[The Colorado Kid]

Good point on MVC past effort. It could have been the reasons you state or timing.

One thing I know for sure. Most HGVC and MVC owners purchased at a much lower retail cost $15 -$50k 10 -20 years ago.

Now I see deeds and MVC trust going regularly for $60k to $130k. With a few exceptions, I do not think the next gen middle-class as they age and become more stable financially could afford these levels upon entry.

Now I see deeds and MVC trust going regularly for $60k to $130k. - Resale or from the developer?

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Now I see deeds and MVC trust going regularly for $60k to $130k. - Resale or from the developer?

Developer. I updated the post.

 

[GT75]

Now I see retail deeds and MVC trust going regularly for $60k to $130k.

I am also hearing of the developer's retail cost increases for HGV. It seems that the purchase of DRI has pushed the prices even higher for these supposedly "low-cost" entry-level HVC trust points. And now, HGV is adding BG to the mix with another supposedly "even-lower-entry" cost option. I am also wondering if the HGV strategy is sustainable.

 

[GrayFal]

I found this thread about Bluegreen. It seems very confusing with different trust types and such. What I don't understand is if you own in a Trust Type, do you also have access to a deeded week and unit or are those deeded week and units really from an older system that Bluegreen had before creating the new trusts?

Every Bluegreen Vacation Club ownership is back by a deed which is held in a trust. It can be a full week or as little as one day.
You own shares/points in the trust but you are entitled to use your underlying time which is called Priority Use Period or PUP.
People may refer to it as their deeded time but it is not.

You must call to reserve or claim your PUP 13-11 month 1Day out or it can be reserved by anyone at 11months. The wise person reserves their PUP 11months 2weeks out as a person making a 14 day resie could pick up the first day of your PUP.

This is why PUPs at Big Cedar Summer, Aruba Winter, Hammocks at Marathon Winter, Cibola Winter command a higher price.

When buying resale, bonus time can only be booked at your home resort so this can be important to people.

90-95% of owners don’t know about their PUP, that they can reserve it and believe the salespeople who tell them it doesn’t matter where you own as points are points.
HTH

 

[GrayFal]

This is the fourth Branson Property.

We are thrilled to expand our presence in the Ozark Mountains with the acquisition of Stonewater Cove Resort. This new addition underscores our commitment to offering our valued owners a diverse range of vacation experiences in some of the most coveted destinations in the country," said Ray Lopez, Chief Operating Officer and Chief Financial Officer of Bluegreen Vacations.

This marks the second acquisition by the Bluegreen/Big Cedar Vacations LLC in 2023, joining the Branson Cedars Resort located in Ridgedale, Missouri which was acquired in April. In addition to Stonewater Cove and Branson Cedars, Bluegreen/Big Cedar Vacations LLC also operates The Cliffs at Long Creek and Wilderness Club at Big Cedars resorts in Ridgedale and Paradise Point in Hollister, Missouri.

 

[sponger76]

This is the fourth Branson Property.

We are thrilled to expand our presence in the Ozark Mountains with the acquisition of Stonewater Cove Resort. This new addition underscores our commitment to offering our valued owners a diverse range of vacation experiences in some of the most coveted destinations in the country," said Ray Lopez, Chief Operating Officer and Chief Financial Officer of Bluegreen Vacations.

This marks the second acquisition by the Bluegreen/Big Cedar Vacations LLC in 2023, joining the Branson Cedars Resort located in Ridgedale, Missouri which was acquired in April. In addition to Stonewater Cove and Branson Cedars, Bluegreen/Big Cedar Vacations LLC also operates The Cliffs at Long Creek and Wilderness Club at Big Cedars resorts in Ridgedale and Paradise Point in Hollister, Missouri.

They really like that area. They seem to have far more coverage there now than any other timeshare company, and I believe it's the most resorts in a single area within Bluegreen's system.

 

[1Kflyerguy]

really wish Hilton would have gone the way Marriott did when Marriott integrated Vistana, Westin and Sheraton resorts. Instead, they cut the legs out from under the DRI integration by leaving them as two distinct companies and limiting exchanges between brands to 6 months. For us this was a non-starter and, if it continues with the BG acquisition, it’s still a non-starter for us.

I agree with Doug on this. As someone that also owns with Marriott, i much prefer their approach to the integration.

While i am currently very happy with the resorts I can access with my membership, overtime it feels like the original HGV owner will left behind. I am doubtful any new resorts will be made available to non-max owners.

So far they have not created enough value in the new program to make me interested in upgrading.

 

[GT75]

overtime it feels like the original HGV owner will left behind. I am doubtful any new resorts will be made available to non-max owners.

I doubt if HGVC will be building any new resorts for many years because their focus will be on both HVC and BG integration for a long time. Once someone does see value in HGVMax, then you will be able to make a small purchase to be included. That is my approach. I currently don't have FOMO because I don't see the value.

 

[dayooper]

I agree @GT75 I just don’t see the value. Any of the properties I would want to visit won’t be available at 6 months so what’s the point?

 

[GrayFal]

I doubt if HGVC will be building any new resorts for many years because their focus will be on both HVC and BG integration for a long time. Once someone does see value in HGVMax, then you will be able to make a small purchase to be included. That is my approach. I currently don't have FOMO because I don't see the value.

It’s interesting that Bluegreen has acquired two new Branson properties this year PLUS 2 (of 5) buildings at Marriotts Streamside at Vail.

I routinely trade into HGVC Oahu and Big Island resorts thru RCI.

I am just not familiar with the former Diamond resorts to know if they interest me.

I got involved with BG in 2010 because I was not happy with Marriott Aruba Surf Clubs crowded conditions so sold that ownership in favor of going to La Cabana. It is a nicely maintained, middle of the road resort ( after BG spearheaded the renovations) with great customer service and a loyal staff and I have many PUPs there.
Other than the Branson resorts and possibly the Fountains and the Manhattan Club, none of the resorts are HGVC/Marriott/Westin standards.

I honestly have not figured out why Hilton would want BG….
and reserving at 6 months out when BG owners reserve at 11 months is not going to give Max members much of a choice.

 

[GT75]

I honestly have not figured out why Hilton would want BG….

I honestly don't know anything about either former DRI or now BG properties other than what I have read on TUG, The comments that I have read don't really want me to even try these resorts, except for Cabo Azul which I have heard is fabulous. But I already have FA-Cabo which sounds like it is below Cabo Azul standards but we certainly enjoy it. I don't know anything about BG resorts except to stay away from the TS salespeople at Bass Pro Shop.

 

[dioxide45]

I honestly have not figured out why Hilton would want BG…

It is more about the list of 200,000+ current BG owners than it is about the properties. Those 200K+ owners are a great pool of people to upsell into Max.

 

[GrayFal]

It is more about the list of 200,000+ current BG owners than it is about the properties. Those 200K+ owners are a great pool of people to upsell into Max.

Good point, as I certainly don’t see HGVC and Max owners wanting to stay at BG quality resorts.

 

[GrayFal]

I don't know anything about BG resorts except to stay away from the TS salespeople at Bass Pro Shop.

True.

 

[GT75]

Those 200K+ owners are a great pool of people to upsell into Max.

I certainly agree with that statement. Mark Wang also made the same statement during the HGV investor's call. So for me, HGV isn't thinking about current owners, they are only thinking about future retail sales. This is also obvious (IMO) when you look at the rollout of the HGV Max program.

 

[dioxide45]

I don't know anything about BG resorts except to stay away from the TS salespeople at Bass Pro Shop.

We don't go to Bass Pro Shop all that much, but next time I am in there I may stop by. I really want to check out The Fountains in Orlando and I don't see it in RCI Last Call. So perhaps we will buy a promo package and tack that stay on the end of some other stay in Orlando. We are glutton for punishment after all.

 

[GT75]

We are glutton for punishment after all.

By all means, go for it.