HGV agrees to purchase BlueGreen Vacations

[gggllm]

Isn't what is available in HGV Max based on what a member owns? If an owner owns HGVC Kihei and uses their points in Max instead, their Kihei week should now be available in Max. It isn't necessarily leftovers that show up in Max, it is what people deposit in there to book something else.

Not necessarily. HGVC can switch that week to multiple trash week and make it available for diamond.

 

[dioxide45]

Not necessarily. HGVC can switch that week to multiple trash week and make it available for diamond.

I suspect they then take control of the good week and rent it for cash?

 

[gggllm]

I suspect they then take control of the good week and rent it for cash?

HGVC I am not sure but RCI yes...

 

[dayooper]

Isn't what is available in HGV Max based on what a member owns? If an owner owns HGVC Kihei and uses their points in Max instead, their Kihei week should now be available in Max. It isn't necessarily leftovers that show up in Max, it is what people deposit in there to book something else.

Theoretically yes, but most people who purchase expensive weeks don’t use them for club bookings, let alone Max. They use them for their home week. Places like Maui, Oahu, Hilton Head, among others are very expensive and they are bought for their home week. If you bought a $90,000 week at Hilton Head, you are going to use that week there. The Vegas, Orlando and Big Island weeks? Sure, you may see those weeks in Max from an exchange, but someone who spent $150,000 on a penthouse week in Oahu isn’t going to be happy with HVC resorts (with the exception of Cabo Azul, maybe).

The second issue is how does HGV deal with multiple deeds? I’m not a member of Max, but if I were and I booked 3 nights at a HVC resort, how does HGV know what resort to pull from? Do they choose the resort? I don’t get to choose which resort to pull from so they must decide.

 

[GT75]

The second issue is how does HGV deal with multiple deeds? I’m not a member of Max, but if I were and I booked 3 nights at a HVC resort, how does HGV know what resort to pull from? Do they choose the resort? I don’t get to choose which resort to pull from so they must decide.

I also have the same question. I certainly don't know the answer nor do I even have a theory (ie. guess). I would suspect that it would be done the same way as if a multi-deeded HGVC owner books RCI or converts their points to Hilton Honors.

 

[Eric B]

how does HGV know what resort to pull from?

No doubt the terms and conditions allow the developer to estimate supply and demand in advance to allocate availability to the various internal and external exchange systems. I do include HGVC as an internal exchange system in this thought. HGV will not know with certainty how many owners of the various resorts will choose to book other HGVC resorts, bHC resorts, MAX resorts, etc., until those choices are made but does have to make some availability to the external ones (RCI, SFX, etc.) so that their contractual obligations are met and the external exchanges can be made. The contractual obligations can no doubt be at least partially satisfied with developer owned inventory, but there isn't a requirement to book a week and deposit it in RCI so why would there be a one for one identification of point sources needed for Max?

Isn't what is available in HGV Max based on what a member owns? If an owner owns HGVC Kihei and uses their points in Max instead, their Kihei week should now be available in Max. It isn't necessarily leftovers that show up in Max, it is what people deposit in there to book something else.

What if the HGVC Kihei owner uses 1/10th of their points in Max? That could be a possibility given the discounting we've seen on the HVC resorts in Max (up to 75% off) and the comparative point values for the weeks. I don't believe it would be a possibility for HGV to make 1/10th of a week available to Max - that would be 16.8 hours. Instead, I believe that it works very much like Marriott estimates for Abound/II/Trust usage.

I suspect they then take control of the good week and rent it for cash?

HGVC I am not sure but RCI yes...

If one can prove that rental of good weeks exchanged happens, one could seek compensation from RCI. RCI does have different pools of exchange availability for the various corporate account systems, RCI Select, and The Registry Collection, so the good weeks might be going there or to OGS rather than to rental. I'm not defending any practices that Wyndham has with RCI because it's pretty much a black box to me, similar to the HGV allocation process for exchanges, but very likely has internal controls and does have a separate corporate entity (Resort Rental, LLC) that does the rental side of things. I know that for some resorts there are separate resort IDs for their rental programs (e.g., Buganvilias). There might also be provisions allowing use of exchanged weeks after a certain period of availability for rent as getaways and certainly is for last calls.

 

[heitmullerj02]

Why does HGVC keep buying second rate properties? All they are doing is diluting the quality of the brand . Yes, there are a few nice Diamond resorts but based on the ones I have traded into its going to cost a ton of money to bring these up to HGVC quality. I for one will not be contributing to that fiasco. Will be staying where I own and if they go down hill, will try and get rid of them. Yes a 4 Season would be nice for a change!

 

[cd5]

Isn't what is available in HGV Max based on what a member owns? If an owner owns HGVC Kihei and uses their points in Max instead, their Kihei week should now be available in Max. It isn't necessarily leftovers that show up in Max, it is what people deposit in there to book something else.

Embarc doesn't deposit a specific week/location, only points. Members have no home resort, they can reserve on the same terms at any of the 9 Embarc resorts. What therefore ends up as a "week" in Interval for sure & maybe Max, or DEX (not sure if a pre-determined location/date is offered in these?) is determined later by the manager (now Hilton) and is not pre-determined at the time of the deposit. Members have priority for available inventory up to 6 months from the CHECKIN date. For Max, one can only choose an exchange that is at most 6 months out from the CHECKOUT date. That is why I would say that in many cases Max members would only have access to "left-overs" and definitely not any peak date/locations as Embarc members can book those at 11 months out for 6 days or more, or 6 months out for 5 days or less. I think at that point, (6 months from checkout) Max members have availability to the balance of what is available in the bucket, same as any Embarc member reserving at the same time.
I suspect there are a fair number of the more popular Diamond locations that would work that way too since many are points-based.

 

[GT75]

Why does HGVC keep buying second rate properties?

Now, I have never stayed at either a DRI or BG resort. So I can not speak to the quality of either. I did find this thread interesting discussing the quality of BG resorts.

Bluegreen - Why are there so many listed for resale?

Not too familiar with Bluegreen but there are 121 listed for sale on ebay at the moment. Is this a system to avoid?

tugbbs.com

 

[90_Min_Sales_Pitch]

I just stayed at BG Las Vegas 6 weeks ago. The property was probably nice when built, but upkeep has been skimpy. The shower handles were flimsy feeling, worse than any motel I can remember. Lobby was nice, hallways were dirty. The group presentation was the slimiest I've seen, with the claim that the parking lot was 90% empty because BG owners use their points for cruises. I am familiar with DRI, and BG Las Vegas was a step down.

 

[Talent312]

This is devaluation of HGVC...
We, legatees will soon be rubbing elbows with even more riff-raff.
We'll see the unwashed masses from both DRI and BG at the pool.
But if I can still book HGVC and RCI (occasionally), I'll be okay I 'spose.

.

 

[dandjane1]

What does "managed" mean? All their resorts are "managed".

In my view, "Managed" likely means that they have controlling interest in the inventory. Both Wyndham and the old
DRI had resorts where they were not the "managers", only having a limited portion of the inventory at those resorts.

 

[dandjane1]

Aruba has a green dot. That must mean something different and harder to book?

Per the BG listing, the dots distinguish whether the resort is "Associate Resort" or "Club Resort". Much more Club than Associate.

 

[Jeddy]

I just stayed at BG Las Vegas 6 weeks ago. The property was probably nice when built, but upkeep has been skimpy. The shower handles were flimsy feeling, worse than any motel I can remember. Lobby was nice, hallways were dirty. The group presentation was the slimiest I've seen, with the claim that the parking lot was 90% empty because BG owners use their points for cruises. I am familiar with DRI, and BG Las Vegas was a step down.

BG Vegas is not one of the top BG properties. My experiences there (Vegas) have been mixed. BG Fountains is their showcase resort.

 

[rapmarks]

BG Vegas is not one of the top BG properties. My experiences there (Vegas) have been mixed. BG Fountains is their showcase resort.

Really?

 

[ernststarhemberg]

Mixed feelings on the DRI and BG acquisitions. On the one hand they provide marketing opportunities for Max - potential benefit for HGV.

But the downsides are numerous - high cost to bring DRI and BG properties "up to HGV standards." Buyer's remorse for people who bought into Max only to discover that the desirable properties aren't available when their booking window opens. Too many tiers, so on the outside looking in casual observers will associate these older/rundown properties with the HGV brand - they can be categorized however they want internally, but on the whole I think these additions are a net dilution of the HGV brand image.

Case in point: DRI property Fairway Forest Resort in NC. This is advertised as a HGV resort on the HGV public website. Looking it up on Google maps, it is obviously old and rundown, and while the reviews indicate Hilton is putting money into upgrading the units, the Hampton Inn next door to the main office has a higher customer rating!

 

[sponger76]

Really?

Yeah, Bluegreen Club 36 resort in Las Vegas is at an inconvenient location away from the strip. It's pretty much surrounded by nothing, actually, and isn't particularly nice. As for the Fountains, it actually was pretty nice. It's just that there are a lot of just-as-nice-or-better Orlando resorts that are in overall better timeshare systems.

 

[BingoBangoBongo]

Mixed feelings on the DRI and BG acquisitions. On the one hand they provide marketing opportunities for Max - potential benefit for HGV.

But the downsides are numerous - high cost to bring DRI and BG properties "up to HGV standards." Buyer's remorse for people who bought into Max only to discover that the desirable properties aren't available when their booking window opens. Too many tiers, so on the outside looking in casual observers will associate these older/rundown properties with the HGV brand - they can be categorized however they want internally, but on the whole I think these additions are a net dilution of the HGV brand image.

Case in point: DRI property Fairway Forest Resort in NC. This is advertised as a HGV resort on the HGV public website. Looking it up on Google maps, it is obviously old and rundown, and while the reviews indicate Hilton is putting money into upgrading the units, the Hampton Inn next door to the main office has a higher customer rating!

Yeah but you can’t get an owners update at the Hampton Inn. /s

 

[rapmarks]

Yeah, Bluegreen Club 36 resort in Las Vegas is at an inconvenient location away from the strip. It's pretty much surrounded by nothing, actually, and isn't particularly nice. As for the Fountains, it actually was pretty nice. It's just that there are a lot of just-as-nice-or-better Orlando resorts that are in overall better timeshare systems.

I just don’t think an Orlando resort is their flagship resort

 

[pedro47]

Mixed feelings on the DRI and BG acquisitions. On the one hand they provide marketing opportunities for Max - potential benefit for HGV.

But the downsides are numerous - high cost to bring DRI and BG properties "up to HGV standards." Buyer's remorse for people who bought into Max only to discover that the desirable properties aren't available when their booking window opens. Too many tiers, so on the outside looking in casual observers will associate these older/rundown properties with the HGV brand - they can be categorized however they want internally, but on the whole I think these additions are a net dilution of the HGV brand image.

Case in point: DRI property Fairway Forest Resort in NC. This is advertised as a HGV resort on the HGV public website. Looking it up on Google maps, it is obviously old and rundown, and while the reviews indicate Hilton is putting money into upgrading the units, the Hampton Inn next door to the main office has a higher customer rating!

Is the money that Hilton is investing in DRI Resorts to bring them up to Hilton standards; is it possible, that it is a tax write out for Hilton Corporation ?

Also, what happen to reserve funds from DRI, to improve / to renovate their resorts?

Every DRI Resorts had reserved funds?Correct

 

[dougp26364]

I really wish Hilton would have gone the way Marriott did when Marriott integrated Vistana, Westin and Sheraton resorts. Instead, they cut the legs out from under the DRI integration by leaving them as two distinct companies and limiting exchanges between brands to 6 months. For us this was a non-starter and, if it continues with the BG acquisition, it’s still a non-starter for us.

I’d like to think they can correct that mistake with the acquisition of Bluegreen and backtrack the exchange window to at least 9 months, like it’s always been for club reservations within HGVC. I’m sure they won’t.

And make no mistake. It isn’t Hilton’s money getting used to update resorts. That money will come out of the pockets of members/owners in the form of increased MF’s or special assessments.

 

[pedro47]

I really wish Hilton would have gone the way Marriott did when Marriott integrated Vistana, Westin and Sheraton resorts. Instead, they cut the legs out from under the DRI integration by leaving them as two distinct companies and limiting exchanges between brands to 6 months. For us this was a non-starter and, if it continues with the BG acquisition, it’s still a non-starter for us.

I’d like to think they can correct that mistake with the acquisition of Bluegreen and backtrack the exchange window to at least 9 months, like it’s always been for club reservations within HGVC. I’m sure they won’t.

And make no mistake. It isn’t Hilton’s money getting used to update resorts. That money will come out of the pockets of members/owners in the form of increased MF’s or special assessments.

I agreed with the above posts. Hilton is using the money from DRI reserved funds resorts to upgrade these Diamond Resorts to Hilton standards.

 

[GT75]

I’d like to think they can correct that mistake with the acquisition of Bluegreen and backtrack the exchange window to at least 9 months

I certainly don't agree with that statement. That would give HVC members an unfair advantage by allowing them to book our resort during our club season. Marriot, Vistana, Westin and Sheraton resorts are all of equal quality (as I understand those resorts) so for me that is a very significant difference. Look at the quality of the Hilton resorts. If anyone wants access to HVC resorts then purchase a trust-contract with HVC.

 

[GT75]

Hilton is using the money from DRI reserved funds resorts to upgrade these Diamond Resorts to Hilton standards.

As far as I can tell, HGV is using corporate funds to rebrand the former DRI resorts. Just because the HVC are rebranded to "Hilton standards" (I don't even know what that means) doesn't mean that they are of the same quality as the HGVC resorts (look at the graphic in post #249).

 

[ernststarhemberg]

From a business perspective I can see the benefit of consolidating and upfitting old properties, taking accelerated depreciation on the upfits to save taxes in high income years, which they are in now, and then have that real estate to leverage yourself with if it becomes necessary in the lean times, which are coming.