Help! Timeshare is sinking us

[paxsarah]

I thought they were now prevented from renting. That they were shut down from renting. So how would moving their points to the future be beneficial?

I thought you were talking about when they were actively renting, since you were speaking in the past tense ("But I bet that many others did not fare too well. Reserved the wrong resort and/or at the wrong time. Zero rental income. Sheer maintenance fee expense."), and that's what I was responding to.

 

[andre10056]

I thought you were talking about when they were actively renting, since you were speaking in the past tense ("But I bet that many others did not fare too well. Reserved the wrong resort and/or at the wrong time. Zero rental income. Sheer maintenance fee expense."), and that's what I was responding to.

I was talking theoretically in the second paragraph of my post #94 about the difference between people who fortuitously did everything just right as compared to the average timeshare owner. As an absolute timeless truth rather than relative to any particular time period. My entire post was as follows:

"Oh. So that's how the "+Quote" works.

Yes. I can see that, if someone fortuitously does everything precisely right, it might be possible to make some amount of money. But I bet that many others did not fare too well. Reserved the wrong resort and/or at the wrong time. Zero rental income. Sheer maintenance fee expense.

Which is probably what many individual owners encounter when they can't travel themselves and try renting. Which is why they hope and pray they can rid themselves of their timeshare.

Of course, now the former Wyndham mega renter owns tens of millions of points which they can't rent out. Again, zero rental income. Sheer maintenance fee expense. Hope they can at least give all their points away.

And since the timeshare industry is a copycat industry, how long before other resort families implement these "anti-mega-renter" (quote unquote) policies (possibly as a means to explain away poor prior availability)?"

But I did not speak in the past tense when, in the same post, I continued:

Of course, now the former Wyndham mega renter owns tens of millions of points which they can't rent out. Again, zero rental income. Sheer maintenance fee expense. Hope they can at least give all their points away.

Hence my confusion. Thanks for the explanation. Just talking about different time frames in paragraph 2 rather than paragraph 4.

 

[paxsarah]

Hence my confusion. Thanks for the explanation. Just talking about different time frames in paragraph 2 rather than paragraph 4.

Yep, I was only replying to paragraph 2.

 

[chapjim]

No. Just responding with my thoughts on what I was told. I didn't know it would be deemed "an argument".

Am I missing something about what I was told about the mega renter just pushing his points off to the future? Did I misinterpret what it means that they were shut down? Was it only a temporary suspension but they'd be able to rent to their heart's content in the future?

I'm sincerely puzzled.

The point about moving points forward is that it reduces the owner's risk (nothing to do with suspensions). That applies to moving points several ways.

One, moving to a future year. I rarely had to do this -- 2020 was an obvious exception. There were at least a couple of years when the number of points at year end didn't justify paying the fee to move them to the next year.

Two, moving to later in the same use year. 2A -- cancelling a reservation fifteen days before check-in, recover the points, and book a new reservation. 2B -- using the much-discussed "cancel and re-book" procedure. Using "cancel and re-book" just for my Bonnet Creek spring break reservations would generate 1 million to 1.5 million points that I could use for summer or holiday weeks. I did the same thing for Bike Week at Daytona, although demand for that week tapered off the last three or four years and I ended up canceling more reservations than I rented.

I had a lot of repeat renters whom I came to know fairly well. They constituted at least half of my rentals. For these folks, I didn't use market pricing. I used "cost plus" pricing, a formula that resulted in a much lower price. A week at market price might have been listed for $1,200. My regulars got it for $450 or $500. I was not in the business to make money. I was in the business not to lose money. (I failed at being a wannabe slumlord.)

Also, I did a lot of renting through TUG's Last Minute Rentals, which had a cap of $100/night at the time.

 

[HitchHiker71]

Of course, now the former Wyndham mega renter owns tens of millions of points which they can't rent out. Again, zero rental income. Sheer maintenance fee expense. Hope they can at least give all their points away.

And since the timeshare industry is a copycat industry, how long before other resort families implement these "anti-mega-renter" (quote unquote) policies (possibly as a means to explain away poor prior availability)?

It's generally easier to acquire timeshare points then it is to give them away. That's why it was collectively easier to obtain millions of resale points contracts for pennies on the dollar than it is to unload those same points contracts. Just ask some of the former "mega-renters" - some of whom are still trying to give away their resale contracts, all the while paying monthly MFs as you said.

Blue-Green is another timeshare entity that is starting down the path of being more restrictive with owner-based timeshare rentals - so yes timeshare companies are like lemmings - they tend to follow in each other's footsteps - likely because the executives at these companies tend to move around within these same companies on a periodic basis. The CEO of Wyndham (Michael Brown) used to run HGVC for example.

 

[amycurl]

As a non-Wyndham owner who tends to read everything....this whole rabbit-hole discussion is amusing to read. I would think that those who are skeptical about how people could have made serious bank renting Wyndham in the past could just search @ronparise's posts from 2014-2016 to understand how it worked, and then how it didn't. (My recollection is that he controlled at least 75% of Mardi Gras week reservations at Avenue Plaza, and made enough $$ to quit his "day" job and buy a boat.) But kudos to all of you who are trying to give a succinct summary. It just goes to show you how generous TUGgers are to getting the facts right and posting correct information on a public forum.

 

[WManning]

Sure you can buy timeshares for $1. But the fact that you can occasionally find these "bargains" because the timeshare was killing someone financially indicates that it's not likely to return much in the way of net rental income. There are very few listed on ebay right now that will be able to generate any rental income over the annual maintenance fee, if they rent at all.

Too many Airbnb alternatives out there which allow people to rent beautifully furnished and professionally cleaned condos or homes for a fraction of what hotels charge. And that of course would be your competition.

Might you tell us for what you rented your "standing on the carcass of others" purchases? How many hours did you regularly spend on ebay before finding one or two or three that you might choose to bid on? And how much time did you spend on preparing and responding to the ads you placed?

Because it seems to me that becoming a timeshare rental mogul is about the most ridiculous moneymaking strategy that I've ever heard. Almost as bad as someone planning to buy low and sell high on timeshares. All that effort and time to possibly generate pennies but more likely lose big. Like I said, better to be a burger flipper at McDonald's.

Most owners are willing to give ownership away eventually. Wyndham sets resale price at $0.

 

[Happy Hopian]

I thought they were now prevented from renting. That they were shut down from renting. So how would moving their points to the future be beneficial?

Andre, I think the points you are missing is that this stared over a decade ago for many during the recession when people were dumping their ownerships. It wasn't hard to find. The sales were all over the place. People were begging to have their contracts taken.

Also this was in the days of cancel/rebook. When you could book all the 3/4 br units your heart could desire. Hold them until 60 days out. Log in at 2am and cancel the booking. Wait 45 seconds and when it came back book it at 50% off and if you were REALLY smart, you would hold a 1br unit, cancel it and then direct upgrade the 1br to the 4br at 50% of the 1br cost. People were renting a 4br unit with gross rents of 4k-7k a week on cost at 50% of a 1 br for a week ($600).

None of what I have written here is possible any longer but for you to continue to debate that this was not possibly profitable is simply an example of not knowing what you're speaking of. There is a lot of history here dating back almost 20 years. Don't judge from today what you don't understand was happening them are my words of caution.

Have a great weekend.

 

[chapjim]

Most owners are willing to give ownership away eventually. Wyndham sets resale price at $0.

When you tack on "eventually," it's never over. Cindy @rickandcindy23 is one who is adamant about not giving Wyndham anything. But, "eventually " . . . .

 

[ronparise]

As a non-Wyndham owner who tends to read everything....this whole rabbit-hole discussion is amusing to read. I would think that those who are skeptical about how people could have made serious bank renting Wyndham in the past could just search @ronparise's posts from 2014-2016 to understand how it worked, and then how it didn't. (My recollection is that he controlled at least 75% of Mardi Gras week reservations at Avenue Plaza, and made enough $$ to quit his "day" job and buy a boat.) But kudos to all of you who are trying to give a succinct summary. It just goes to show you how generous TUGgers are to getting the facts right and posting correct information on a public forum.

thats something of an exaggeration, Between La Belle Maison and Avenue Plaza there are something like 400 units I had as many as 50 reservations for Mardi Gras for 3 years (12.5% )

I didnt have a day job (I was 65 when I bought my first contract)

 

[amycurl]

Still, the point remains--you did well, until you didn't. Thanks for correcting the record.

 

[troy12n]

Still, the point remains--you did well, until you didn't. Thanks for correcting the record.

"Well is an understatement"

They were doing great. Great enough to not have a real job, and completely pay for their timeshare MF, and have plenty left over to use themselves. I will give Ron credit at least for admitting when he was beat and bowing out gracefully.

Unlike a couple others on here who are constantly playing the victim card and whining...

 

[ronparise]

"Well is an understatement"

They were doing great. Great enough to not have a real job, and completely pay for their timeshare MF, and have plenty left over to use themselves. I will give Ron credit at least for admitting when he was beat and bowing out gracefully.

Unlike a couple others on here who are constantly playing the victim card and whining...

I knew from the beginning that Wyndham had no love for the mega renters. and I knew that they had been changing the rules to discourage renting. and they continued their little "tweeks" through the 5 years I was active. Bottom line I knew that what I was doing would end sooner rather than later.. so when it did, it was not a surprise. I dont think the Wyndham lawyer I worked with would describe me as graceful. maybe resigned

You may not want to call what I did a job. But it was work, and it took time

 

[WManning]

I knew from the beginning that Wyndham had no love for the mega renters. and I knew that they had been changing the rules to discourage renting. and they continued their little "tweeks" through the 5 years I was active. Bottom line I knew that what I was doing would end sooner rather than later.. so when it did, it was not a surprise. I dont think the Wyndham lawyer I worked with would describe me as graceful. maybe resigned

You may not want to call what I did a job. But it was work, and it took time

A side hustle that turned into a full time job.

 

[rickandcindy23]

I knew from the beginning that Wyndham had no love for the mega renters. and I knew that they had been changing the rules to discourage renting. and they continued their little "tweeks" through the 5 years I was active. Bottom line I knew that what I was doing would end sooner rather than later.. so when it did, it was not a surprise. I dont think the Wyndham lawyer I worked with would describe me as graceful. maybe resigned

You may not want to call what I did a job. But it was work, and it took time

Hi Ron! I hope you are well. The same old people are constantly trying to get your goat, but I know you won't let them, and neither will I. It was a great game while it lasted.

 

[Sandi Bo]

A side hustle that turned into a full time job.

I love this term - side hustle. I didn't hear it until recently here on tug. And then my daughter was talking about different side hustles she could do so they could buy a new car this year instead of waiting til next year.