Grande Vista 2024 fee proposed to increase over $1000! What is going on?

[VacationForever]

is 25% skim a good (discount) or bad (premium) thing?

Bad thing. But quick solution, unless we rent out the points, which is a little of a hassle. Direct Collette pricing was about $8K, and we used about $10K worth (MF equivalent) of points to book.

 

[dioxide45]

So basically, the flexibility isnt worth it. Legacy weeks are best used as trades in II.

IMO, yes.

 

[Dean]

So basically, the flexibility isnt worth it. Legacy weeks are best used as trades in II.

I think it depends. Certainly for trading weeks as the main option with a limited volume it's not worth it. Realize that many of us got in with a much better situation than you're looking at. Some with Tahoe Fractionals, some enrolled weeks they already owned including resale weeks back in 2010 and some with a much better enrollment situation than you're looking at. IMO the important parameters end up being the overall cost per point on the purchase and yearly fees per point. Another variable is how one will use the week such as rentability, use the week itself, exchange or take points. In reality many of us do all 4 at one time or another and often every year. While I rarely rent, I have weeks I use every year, weeks I exchange, weeks I only use for points and a couple of weeks I use at times and take points other years.

 

[claraj]

At $44k, isn't that what it would cost, or even a bit more, to enroll a resale week anyway?

 

[cubigbird]

My theory: The MVC resale market will begin to be flooded with near "give-away" prices, this month, except for the tried and true MVC resorts, that have maintained strong values (e.g. Grande Ocean (platinum season)). Further, MVC will be so flooded with "Right of First Refusal" inventory, that they will waive their Right of First Refusal, at resorts/seasons where/when they have reacquired the inventory in the past (as, I would expect that MVC/MVW's Board of Directors would not want to see MVC/MVW take on a lot of new debt).

I expect that there will be a peak in resale listings, until the end of First Quarter 2024, when MVC Maintenance Fees must be (1) paid, or (2) go to collections.

Even Grande Ocean, I believe, will see a spike in resale listings over the next few months, as the wave of "Original Owners" are "aging-out," and the adage that MVC Ownership was sold on, the "pass your MVC ownership along to your children" premise, washed out to sea, as, in our experience, the adult children that we know, including our own, want nothing to do with owning a timeshare (with a few exceptions: the adult children who want to relive their childhood memories). And, forget about, the once (long time ago) value in exchanging a MVC Week for Marriott Bonvoy points.

And, despite this insanity, MVC will continue to sell new ownerships to naive customers, predicated on "the dream."

Maybe that’s why MF increases went straight up vs competitor systems like Hilton and DVC. It is in their best interest to ROFR weeks for cheap to consolidate into Abound. Why not just squeeze owners into giving up their ownerships. It’s definitely profitable.

 

[dioxide45]

Maybe that’s why MF increases went straight up vs competitor systems like Hilton and DVC. It is in their best interest to ROFR weeks for cheap to consolidate into Abound. Why not just squeeze owners into giving up their ownerships. It’s definitely profitable.

But the sales machine has been slowing over the past quarter. Perhaps they need to bridge a gap between now and when the Waikiki property comes online? I thought they had quite a bit of unsold inventory on the books, but I recall a bunch of that was also from Welk and that can't be sold as Abound trust points. Could they really be running out of inventory to sell?

 

[TimberGrande]

At $44k, isn't that what it would cost, or even a bit more, to enroll a resale week anyway?

I didnt think you can enroll resale weeks for points anymore.

 

[claraj]

So I don't know this from personal experience but it's been discussed in many threads.

Thread 'Own enrolled week and just added new resale - any strategy to enroll for low $?' https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/o...resale-any-strategy-to-enroll-for-low.357859/

 

[dioxide45]

I didnt think you can enroll resale weeks for points anymore.

Yes, it can still be done. Usually the offer to enroll an external resale week is part of an annual "promotion" that usually starts in April each year and ends in September. Though from what I understand, they can often make exceptions for this if it is outside those months.

 

[Dean]

I didnt think you can enroll resale weeks for points anymore.

Both Points and weeks enrollments have still been available. I think this years program ended in Sept or it was supposed to. One could enroll up to 5 weeks by buying points or qualifying weeks (or a combo). This year the program was more restrictive allowing a max of 5 instead of 7 weeks and at a much higher price. Qualifying weeks are resorts that cannot be in th trust like Spain, Aruba, St. Kitts, Costa Rica. They also offered no flexibility for more weeks than officially allowed while in the past they've commonly allowed one to enroll more than the stated maximum. The price this year to enroll 2 weeks was more than my cost to enroll 7.5 weeks in 2019 and others here enrolled up to 12 weeks for around the same price as required for 2 weeks this year.

Enrollment of a Fractional (Tahoe, Ritz) is a different program and is active all year rather than the usual spring to end of summer timing. I would expect some differences for those enrolling Westin/Vistana but I don't follow that situation closely so others may have more specifics.

IMO they've priced themselves now where it's not reasonable for almost any situation to enroll where with the program the last few years it was reasonable for some situations. The only exception might be a Fractional or if one can get a special deal which I've only seen posted for Spanish resorts.

 

[TimberGrande]

So I don't know this from personal experience but it's been discussed in many threads.

Thread 'Own enrolled week and just added new resale - any strategy to enroll for low $?' https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/o...resale-any-strategy-to-enroll-for-low.357859/

Yes, it can still be done. Usually the offer to enroll an external resale week is part of an annual "promotion" that usually starts in April each year and ends in September. Though from what I understand, they can often make exceptions for this if it is outside those months.

Both Points and weeks enrollments have still been available. I think this years program ended in Sept or it was supposed to. One could enroll up to 5 weeks by buying points or qualifying weeks (or a combo). This year the program was more restrictive allowing a max of 5 instead of 7 weeks and at a much higher price. Qualifying weeks are resorts that cannot be in th trust like Spain, Aruba, St. Kitts, Costa Rica. They also offered no flexibility for more weeks than officially allowed while in the past they've commonly allowed one to enroll more than the stated maximum. The price this year to enroll 2 weeks was more than my cost to enroll 7.5 weeks in 2019 and others here enrolled up to 12 weeks for around the same price as required for 2 weeks this year.

Enrollment of a Fractional (Tahoe, Ritz) is a different program and is active all year rather than the usual spring to end of summer timing. I would expect some differences for those enrolling Westin/Vistana but I don't follow that situation closely so others may have more specifics.

IMO they've priced themselves now where it's not reasonable for almost any situation to enroll where with the program the last few years it was reasonable for some situations. The only exception might be a Fractional or if one can get a special deal which I've only seen posted for Spanish resorts.

Thanks for the link and info. Still ramping up on everything. Appreciate the responses.

 

[Danlop88]

Has anyone received any update if MGV will maintenance fees over 1000s anytime soon?

 

[dioxide45]

Has anyone received any update if MGV will maintenance fees over 1000s anytime soon?

I haven't seen anything. I looked at the last set of BOD meeting minutes and nothing specifically was mentioned about poor financials. Our Harbour Lake minutes indicated that 2023 ended in a deficit but they have made up 70% of the deficit so far this year.

 

[clominac]

It looks like the vast majority of the increases are in the Reserves category. As @TheTimeTraveler mentions, this is almost certainly due to Florida Senate Bill 154, which requires all reserves to be "fully funded."

IIRC, it is possible for timeshare owners to vote to waive this requirement and go back to a "prudent reserve" standard, but it requires an association-wide vote. I recall reading that at least some Marriotts in Florida have successfully completed such a vote, but that's dim memory.

So, it is possible that this won't be the final story, but it will depend on whether the Board schedules such a vote, and if so, whether it passes.

I think I had read in another forum that it depends in the association falls under 718 condo statute or 721 timeshare plan. I can't find where GV is one or the other. For example, with HGVC, what I had read was that SeaWorld and Las Palmeras fall under 718, but Tuscany and Parc Soleil fall under 721. In this, 718 condo statue requires the full reserve funding or a majority vote by all owners to waive full funding. Previously it was a majority of owners in attendance at the annual meeting. Any feedback or additional information on this?

 

[bnoble]

Timeshares are typically organized as either Condos or as Cooperatives. So, they typically fall under both 721 and 718 (if a condo). I think Cooperatives are 719.

 

[clominac]

Timeshares are typically organized as either Condos or as Cooperatives. So, they typically fall under both 721 and 718 (if a condo). I think Cooperatives are 719.

I found a document in my owners account which has more details... "Tuscany association formed under Florida Statute 721 (Timeshare), does not require waiving of statutory funding of reserves." Still not sure about Grande Vista, still looking. I do not see the same level of documents in the MVC website.

 

[Skyyblueplaya]

The vote to waive fully funding reserves is on the ballot every year. Won’t know the outcome till the annual meetings

The timeshare Im associated with put it to a vote. HGV funds enough of their reserves to not need to enforce this so it's not happening where I am.

 

[bnoble]

ormed under Florida Statute 721

Read Statute 721. It clearly contemplates that timeshares are either organized as timeshare condominiums or timeshare cooperatives (Section 721.03.(2)) and that in that case sections of 718/719 also apply.

IANAL, but there is a reason many other timeshares in Florida are talking about the new reserve law, and it's not because they just decided to do it.

 

[Skyyblueplaya]

I wonder if the difference is in how the units are presented to potential buyers?

My property is all deeded weeks, (If im saying this right) nobody comes in on a wedneday for instance and checks out on Sunday "Because they want to" all check ins are generally done on Saturday, and run until the following Saturday. Then you are using this property like a HOME for a week. VS when you simply have "ownership" of a place and can put in a request to reserve certain days or times whenever you want to. I dont know how these TS work since I have never been to one, I would imagine those are more "Cooperatives" like the Orlando HGVs. I think of a "Cooperative" like a Full-Service Hotel with better amenities.

If im wrong please correct me, Im learning and I dont understand this timeshare talk AT ALL lol

 

[dioxide45]

I wonder if the difference is in how the units are presented to potential buyers?

My property is all deeded weeks, (If im saying this right) nobody comes in on a wedneday for instance and checks out on Sunday "Because they want to" all check ins are generally done on Saturday, and run until the following Saturday. Then you are using this property like a HOME for a week. VS when you simply have "ownership" of a place and can put in a request to reserve certain days or times whenever you want to. I dont know how these TS work since I have never been to one, I would imagine those are more "Cooperatives" like the Orlando HGVs. I think of a "Cooperative" like a Full-Service Hotel with better amenities.

If im wrong please correct me, Im learning and I dont understand this timeshare talk AT ALL lol

Cooperative vs condominium is more based on ownership sctrucure. I don't have a lot of experience with coops in Florida, but in other parts of the country it is setup more like a corporation and people buy shares in the corporation. Condos are deeded real estate. I would suspect most timeshares in Florida are setup as a condo.

 

[bnoble]

AFAIK, it has nothing to do with how it is used. It is determined by the legal structure on which it is formed.

 

[Skyyblueplaya]

I said it wrong, but yes I mean the same thing as what you described.
Thank You for clearing that up

 

[Skyyblueplaya]

Cooperative vs condominium is more based on ownership sctrucure. I don't have a lot of experience with coops in Florida, but in other parts of the country it is setup more like a corporation and people buy shares in the corporation. Condos are deeded real estate. I would suspect most timeshares in Florida are setup as a condo.

Especially the old school "External Exchange Resorts" of SWFL (HGV)
These are mostly weekly deeded owner condos