Graduating Senior

[Cornell]

At this late stage, I would think that it might be late to apply to major STEM schools. What are his SAT and/or ACT scores?

I would suggest starting on a STEM track at the local Junior College for two years, living at home to keep costs down. Possibly working part time to build a war chest. After two years at JuCo, he will get a better idea of where he wants to go, satisfy his electives and be ready to hit the ground running if he decides to finish at a major Tech university. This will also allow him to avoid the "flunk-out" courses in the frosh program most major universities have (math, chemistry and physics). JuCo's may have smaller classes of these courses with more one on one assistance.

DrQ - BS A&AE Purdue University

My daughter goes to a STEM university. There are really no "electives" to speak of in the engineering programs. There is no way a student could transfer in from a JuCo and graduate in 4 years for certain majors.

 

[jp10558]

and the cherry on top being that "Technology" is such an interesting word. Being a geek from way-back, I sometimes go down the rabbit hole when I hear people use the word in questionable ways. Sometimes it is defined far too broadly, but other times far too narrowly. Example: here is the 1st sentence from wikipedia's page on "Technology". "Technology is the application of conceptual knowledge to achieve practical goals, especially in a reproducible way."
Do they think they could be more broad?
And then many people narrow it way down to "digital stuff".

That is so broad that it ... seems like it'd include stuff I would never call Technology. Specifically, if it's not reproducible you may have art, a miracle, an accident, magic, but not technology IMO. But note the OP said "Tech Industry" which as far as I know has only ever been used recently to refer to something to do with computers or "digital stuff".

 

[pedro47]

IMHO, there are some universities that required a lot of advance math courses.. Basic math courses liked two (2) years of Algebra will not make it some major universities

 

[simpsontruckdriver]

Here is an idea: have him get an apprenticeship as an electrical lineman! Once he gets going, he could take courses in his off time (possibly paid by his employer) for Electrical Engineering or the like. Total cost? $0!

TS

 

[DrQ]

My daughter goes to a STEM university. There are really no "electives" to speak of in the engineering programs. There is no way a student could transfer in from a JuCo and graduate in 4 years for certain majors.

Freshman engineering consists of math (calculus), physics, chemistry (analytical) as well as some english and or language courses. These should transfer in without difficulty.

The OP said there was also a local college, so more advanced classes as physics (thermodynamics) might be available.

Some schools offer two year technical degrees, Mechanical Engineering Technology, Electrical Engineering Technology, Aviation Technology ..., where you can start earning and get a practical view of the craft. I went to school with a guy who had earned his pilots license (multi engine, jet, instruments) and would take one semester on, one off, on his off semesters he flew corporate planes. I worked as an Electrical Technician and a Mechanical Technician before I finished up my degree. I could work an mill and a lathe as well as design a circuit.

 

[Cornell]

Freshman engineering consists of math (calculus), physics, chemistry (analytical) as well as some english and or language courses. These should transfer in without difficulty.

The OP said there was also a local college, so more advanced classes as physics (thermodynamics) might be available.

This isn’t true at all schools. My daughter’s college offers zero foreign languages. Engineering department super strict about accepting transfer credits from other schools.

The original suggestion would never work at her school. It would easily add another year onto the program.

Plus … many universities aren’t going to provide aid / scholarships for transfers.

 

[bizaro86]

This isn’t true at all schools. My daughter’s college offers zero foreign languages. Engineering department super strict about accepting transfer credits from other schools.

The original suggestion would never work at her school. It would easily add another year onto the program.

Plus … many universities aren’t going to provide aid / scholarships for transfers.

Indeed. I transferred from one respected Canadian engineering program to another after my first year (this wasn't a junior college situation- these are equivalent institutions and the same degree) and it cost me a number of course credits. I had to take 8 courses one semester to graduate on time.

 

[DrQ]

This isn’t true at all schools. My daughter’s college offers zero foreign languages. Engineering department super strict about accepting transfer credits from other schools.

The original suggestion would never work at her school. It would easily add another year onto the program.

Plus … many universities aren’t going to provide aid / scholarships for transfers.

I can only speak of Purdue, and more specifically A&AE, but most programs at Purdue are probably close to A&AE:

POS Detail

The Aeronautics and Astronautics curriculum emphasizes the disciplines of aerodynamics, aerospace systems, astrodynamics and space applications, propulsion, structures and materials, dynamics and control, and further provides courses that integrate these disciplines into the design of flight...

engineering.purdue.edu

General Education Electives (24 credits)​

​

You must complete a general education program of at least 24 credit hours. Please see your academic advisor for the complete list of approved courses. The general education program consists of two components: foundational learning outcomes and programmatic requirements.​

​

Foundational Learning Outcomes​

​

You must select from the list of courses approved by the University Core Council (UCC) to satisfy the Foundational Learning Outcomes. Some of these courses overlap with required courses for AAE.​

...​

Transfer Credit​

​

If you are interested in registering for a course offered by a different institution, you should first look it up in the Purdue Transfer Credit Database to see how the credit will transfer back to Purdue. In order for the course to be used to meet AAE degree requirements, it must transfer as a Purdue equivalent course approved to meet the requirement. If the institution or course is not listed, it may mean your course has not been evaluated yet. Please see your advisor for additional information.​

​

You must earn a “C−“ or better in order for a course to be transferred. Please note however, that the grade will not transfer and there will be no impact on your Purdue GPA.​

​

NOTE: courses listed as “#XXXX” are considered undistributed credit, or courses which do not have a Purdue equivalent. These courses cannot be used to meet AAE degree requirements.​

(N.B. These are usually Junior level courses, although I did get credit for a junior advanced physics class for an engineering thermodynamics class)

Also, if the student has not done calculus in H.S., the entry Calculus/Physics courses were notorious flunk-out traps. I didn't take calculus in H.S., but I took Introduction to Analysis which was pre-calculus, which allowed me to pre-test and put me into the advanced Calculus/Physics track. For the physics, the difference was that instead of memorizing formulas, we were taught to derive them from F=ma using differentials and integration.

 

[4TimeAway]

Early in my career I was an engineer.
I’ve recruited from RPI, Cal Poly-SLO, UC Davis and a couple other places.
Worked with MIT types. There are really people who can perform complex math in their heads.

Personally, I’m more of a KISS type.
My advice is don’t get involved. Let them self-select.

The failure/burnout rate is high. The classes can be tough.
Regardless of what they do or don’t do, just listen, and support them.
There are so many well-paying careers that no “well-educated person” in college has even heard of, that I feel it’s a disservice to many motivated individuals.

I have no idea what the next decade looks like but I'm pretty sure college is not a "solution" any longer. Sure wish it was...

 

[DrQ]

Early in my career I was an engineer.
I’ve recruited from RPI, Cal Poly-SLO, UC Davis and a couple other places.
Worked with MIT types. There are really people who can perform complex math in their heads.

Personally, I’m more of a KISS type.

THIS!!!! Many graduates of these top universities gravitate to solutions that are "complex and wonderful".

I worked as a tech where we were doing research for Westinghouse heat exchangers that were cracking in nuclear reactors. Three other divisions had attempted to model and measure the environment and failed. The old school engineer that was my boss was successful by modeling the heat exchanger tubes with electrical conduit using plexiglass for the baffles. We used a 100 HP blower and used air as the working fluid, rather than water and obtained the data.

The failure/burnout rate is high. The classes can be tough.

Individuals from these pressure cookers can be high strung and brittle. I've always favored hands-on experience over a degree from a prestigious institution.

 

[klpca]

This isn’t true at all schools. My daughter’s college offers zero foreign languages. Engineering department super strict about accepting transfer credits from other schools.

The original suggestion would never work at her school. It would easily add another year onto the program.

Plus … many universities aren’t going to provide aid / scholarships for transfers.

My daughter experienced the same. STEM majors were told to expect five years of coursework, mostly due to prerequisites/scheduling. AP coursework was accepted as "general education" credit, but coursework towards the major had to be taken on campus.

 

[BJRSanDiego]

For my undergraduate degree I went to a state University. There were a bunch of colleges that were only known locally that were "courting" me. On the advice of my Uncle, he told me to go to state University because outside of my home state, colleges like Gustavus Adolfus, Augsburg College, Hamline U, etc. are not known outside of the local area. Plus they were more expensive. So, I chose to go to a state University. They had a good engineering program and I could live at home and I could pay for my own books and tuition by working 22 hours a week. (I had to work because "I grew up in a middle-class family..." - - actually a lower middle-class family). I wanted to go to RPI, Stanford, MIT or a "big name" school but that wasn't going to work financially. Living a home and taking the bus or "thumbing" saved a ton of money. Money that I didn't have. Living away from home plus tuition is double the cost of just tuition.

So, I was lucky living in a city with a state university and being able to live at home. But the first two years of college were brutal and were intended to weed out the weaker students. In the first calculus class, the professor told us to "look to your left and then look to your right...in 4 years neither of those students will still be in the engineering program". My physics lecture was held in an auditorium with about 500 other students. (No individual attention for help). That was a distinction from the "boutique" no-name schoos. As some personal background - - I had gone to an intercity high school that was #18 out of 19 city high schools. (Bottom of the scale). So, I wasn't nearly as well prepared for math and science as many of the other students. In fact, my high school didn't even OFFER solid geometry or trig. Yikes. I was probably 1 to 2 years behind the students from Taiwan, India, Japan, etc. So I struggled.

But, the OP didn't mention the skill level and scholastic ranking of his neighbor's child. It is great to want to go into a tech industry. But that student probably needs to be in the top 5 or 10 percent of the math and science students in high school. In my high school with about 350 graduates, only one applicant (me) was accepted by the Institute of Technology of my state University.

So, "wanting" to go into "tech" (which is super broad) needs to be matched with scholastic achievements, GPA's, and IMHO, the "drive" of that person.

Me? I was kind of a technical nerd with an interest in how things worked, a lot of drive and I miraculously graduated in four years with a BSEE as an electronic engineer. ....But I actually wanted to be a doctor, perhaps orthopedics. But financially I didn't think that would work out. My Dad was a restaurant cook and my Mom cleaned houses and babysat. I washed dishes.

 

[Patri]

For my undergraduate degree I went to a state University. There were a bunch of colleges that were only known locally that were "courting" me. On the advice of my Uncle, he told me to go to state University because outside of my home state, colleges like Gustavus Adolfus, Augsburg College, Hamline U, etc. are not known outside of the local area. Plus they were more expensive. So, I chose to go to a state University.

BJ, in that class of 500, how were you graded? I can’t imagine the instructor reading essays, or examining tests separately, and this would have been before computerized tests automatically submitted grades.

 

[4TimeAway]

My physics lecture was held in an auditorium with about 500 other students. (No individual attention for help).

I'd say most lower-level classes were and probably still are substandard.

What I can't believe is the amount of information online. Some colleges even have lectures or classes you can take for low/no cost. Times have changed.

I think the inquisitive minds have been decayed with grade seekers and accepters of mediocrity. Of all the curses of overeducation, conceit is by far the worst.

Show me what you can do and more importantly here’s an impossible problem how would you approach it. Frist order ideas are usually terrible, but I’d be looking for a non-linear response or one that is at least unique.

From my personal perspective most people miss the root cause of the issue by not asking the simple question… Why?


Note: I always ran from the committee of experts who wanted to answer why quickly… I preferred smaller teams that could actually get resolution, solutions and implement faster.

 

[Janann]

BJ, in that class of 500, how were you graded? I can’t imagine the instructor reading essays, or examining tests separately, and this would have been before computerized tests automatically submitted grades.

Probably there were study groups that were led by graduate student teaching assistants. The TAs are often responsible for grading papers for their group.

 

[DrQ]

BJ, in that class of 500, how were you graded? I can’t imagine the instructor reading essays, or examining tests separately, and this would have been before computerized tests automatically submitted grades.

In my frosh classes that were large (calculus, physics, chemistry) the tests were multiple choice and the answers were put on a scan-tron bubble sheet.

The 1 credit hour lab for physics and chemistry were also the flunk-out traps because you had to pass the lab to pass the course.

 

[BJRSanDiego]

BJ, in that class of 500, how were you graded? I can’t imagine the instructor reading essays, or examining tests separately, and this would have been before computerized tests automatically submitted grades.

We didn't have any essays. The tests were questions, and answers including all of the math in-between. Kind of like a calculus test - - numbers and formulas but not "essays". I suspect that the tests were graded by grad students assigned to the professor.

 

[BJRSanDiego]

Probably there were study groups that were led by graduate student teaching assistants. The TAs are often responsible for grading papers for their group.

Yes, that is my belief also.

 

[rapmarks]

Probably there were study groups that were led by graduate student teaching assistants. The TAs are often responsible for grading papers for their group.

I had the large group classes. 500 students in an auditorium listening to a lecture. Essay exams in a blue book. Some classes did both multiple choice test and essay test.

 

[Brett]

College graduate gift registry -

https://www.npr.org/2024/10/31/g-s1...create-a-happy-graduation-registry-for-myself

 

[pedro47]

For my undergraduate degree I went to a state University. There were a bunch of colleges that were only known locally that were "courting" me. On the advice of my Uncle, he told me to go to state University because outside of my home state, colleges like Gustavus Adolfus, Augsburg College, Hamline U, etc. are not known outside of the local area. Plus they were more expensive. So, I chose to go to a state University. They had a good engineering program and I could live at home and I could pay for my own books and tuition by working 22 hours a week. (I had to work because "I grew up in a middle-class family..." - - actually a lower middle-class family). I wanted to go to RPI, Stanford, MIT or a "big name" school but that wasn't going to work financially. Living a home and taking the bus or "thumbing" saved a ton of money. Money that I didn't have. Living away from home plus tuition is double the cost of just tuition.

So, I was lucky living in a city with a state university and being able to live at home. But the first two years of college were brutal and were intended to weed out the weaker students. In the first calculus class, the professor told us to "look to your left and then look to your right...in 4 years neither of those students will still be in the engineering program". My physics lecture was held in an auditorium with about 500 other students. (No individual attention for help). That was a distinction from the "boutique" no-name schoos. As some personal background - - I had gone to an intercity high school that was #18 out of 19 city high schools. (Bottom of the scale). So, I wasn't nearly as well prepared for math and science as many of the other students. In fact, my high school didn't even OFFER solid geometry or trig. Yikes. I was probably 1 to 2 years behind the students from Taiwan, India, Japan, etc. So I struggled.

But, the OP didn't mention the skill level and scholastic ranking of his neighbor's child. It is great to want to go into a tech industry. But that student probably needs to be in the top 5 or 10 percent of the math and science students in high school. In my high school with about 350 graduates, only one applicant (me) was accepted by the Institute of Technology of my state University.

So, "wanting" to go into "tech" (which is super broad) needs to be matched with scholastic achievements, GPA's, and IMHO, the "drive" of that person.

Me? I was kind of a technical nerd with an interest in how things worked, a lot of drive and I miraculously graduated in four years with a BSEE as an electronic engineer. ....But I actually wanted to be a doctor, perhaps orthopedics. But financially I didn't think that would work out. My Dad was a restaurant cook and my Mom cleaned houses and babysat. I washed dishes.

BJ, that was a great testament story. I wish you all the success in life.

 

[kupool]

For my undergraduate degree I went to a state University. There were a bunch of colleges that were only known locally that were "courting" me. On the advice of my Uncle, he told me to go to state University because outside of my home state, colleges like Gustavus Adolfus, Augsburg College, Hamline U, etc. are not known outside of the local area. Plus they were more expensive. So, I chose to go to a state University. They had a good engineering program and I could live at home and I could pay for my own books and tuition by working 22 hours a week. (I had to work because "I grew up in a middle-class family..." - - actually a lower middle-class family). I wanted to go to RPI, Stanford, MIT or a "big name" school but that wasn't going to work financially. Living a home and taking the bus or "thumbing" saved a ton of money. Money that I didn't have. Living away from home plus tuition is double the cost of just tuition.

So, I was lucky living in a city with a state university and being able to live at home. But the first two years of college were brutal and were intended to weed out the weaker students. In the first calculus class, the professor told us to "look to your left and then look to your right...in 4 years neither of those students will still be in the engineering program". My physics lecture was held in an auditorium with about 500 other students. (No individual attention for help). That was a distinction from the "boutique" no-name schoos. As some personal background - - I had gone to an intercity high school that was #18 out of 19 city high schools. (Bottom of the scale). So, I wasn't nearly as well prepared for math and science as many of the other students. In fact, my high school didn't even OFFER solid geometry or trig. Yikes. I was probably 1 to 2 years behind the students from Taiwan, India, Japan, etc. So I struggled.

But, the OP didn't mention the skill level and scholastic ranking of his neighbor's child. It is great to want to go into a tech industry. But that student probably needs to be in the top 5 or 10 percent of the math and science students in high school. In my high school with about 350 graduates, only one applicant (me) was accepted by the Institute of Technology of my state University.

So, "wanting" to go into "tech" (which is super broad) needs to be matched with scholastic achievements, GPA's, and IMHO, the "drive" of that person.

Me? I was kind of a technical nerd with an interest in how things worked, a lot of drive and I miraculously graduated in four years with a BSEE as an electronic engineer. ....But I actually wanted to be a doctor, perhaps orthopedics. But financially I didn't think that would work out. My Dad was a restaurant cook and my Mom cleaned houses and babysat. I washed dishes.

Your life story is soooo similar to mine. Thank you for sharing.

I'm loving this thread and can relate to almost everything that has been said. One thing to note is the big differences regarding "Tech".

I'm nearing retirement (OMG how did that happen? Just yesterday I was 18). I have seen the desirability of a generic degree fall like a rock in water. This is one of the positive byproducts of the focus on Equity. The exceptions are in engineering and medical.

We have a major problem in the workforce today. Namely, the baby boomers are retiring and they make up the largest percentage of the workforce. More people are leaving the workforce due to retirement than are entering the workforce. We have HUGE talent shortages in the medical field. And as more retire it will get worse. The double whammy is the demand for medical services increasing (older folks demand more and that is the fastest growing group) while the supply of medical workers is decreasing. Sadly, non-retirement age medical folks are leaving their fields due to the work demands and stress levels. The same can be said for all areas of Tech (IT, Engineering, etc) and for the trades, e.g. HVAC, plumbing, electrical, etc. As a country we need to have a strategic focus on getting more people to go into the medical fields.

Thanks again for all who contributed to this thread. Very interesting perspectives and much fun discussions.