girl fight

[easyrider]

Our 11 year old grand daughter was involved in a short confrotation at school. The girls that started this fight chose my GD for no apparent reason. Aly was hit twice in the face before she took the girls out. One girl has a black eye and sore chest. The other has a broken nose and cut lip. All three were suspended. Aly said it happened so fast and that she asked the other girls to leave her alone after the first one hit her. They came after her so she hurt them. Aly's skill comes from the training she has recieved, which has included full contact fighting with proper head gear and gloves. My concern is escalation on the other girls part.

 

[Liz Wolf-Spada]

That would be my concern, also, except the fact that she has defense skills may intimidate these kids from pulling another stunt like this. You say she is 11, is there a school counselor who could meet with each of the 3 girls, separately and together to try to bring some resolution?
Liz

 

[dougp26364]

We had some issues similar, but not quite as bad, when our kids were in school. I'd recommend a visit with either the principle to clear the air and make sure they're aware of your concerns.n Write down the dates and names of whomever you speak with. Sometimes they "forget" that the concern was brought to their attention.

 

[klynn]

I think a talk with Aly's instructor (Tae Kwon Do?) is in order. My 16yo, who is a black blelt, was having issues with a certain kid. My son did not want to hurt him back, but just put him in a hold. He was told by his TKD master that if used any TKD outside of the gym he would no longer train him. I'm not saying I agree with this, but that is how martial arts are.

 

[AwayWeGo]

Don't Use Your Violin Skills For Playing Concerts Or I Won't Teach You Any More.

He was told by his TKD master that if used any TKD outside of the gym he would no longer train him.

So what good are skills in martial arts, etc., if they are not to be used when needed for self defense ?

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[klynn]

So what good are skills in martial arts, etc., if they are not to be used when needed for self defense ?

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

They are not to be used in a school setting is what we were told.

 

[Tia]

Our dtr is now 16, but remember hearing about the knock down drag out 6th grade fights in school involving certain girls, who were supposed to be friends . Those involved had school counseling, I understand the school finally told the same parents in 8th grade they needed to go outside for further counseling. Our school was not helpful imho when our dtr had a conflict in 8th grade, blind eye a school secretary told me. The parents who were told to get outside counseling continued to believe their dtrs were just fine as "all kids do things" :annoyed: . I have heard from another parent the one gal that caused problems for us in 8th grade contines on with 'her way of dealing with other girls' in another highschool, and her parents still don't believe there is a problem.

We had some issues similar, but not quite as bad, when our kids were in school. I'd recommend a visit with either the principle to clear the air and make sure they're aware of your concerns.n Write down the dates and names of whomever you speak with. Sometimes they "forget" that the concern was brought to their attention.

 

[DVB42]

After this incident it is certain that your 11 year old granddaughter has established her reputation with peers at school. It sounds like she protected herself rather than agressively provoke a fight. Most likely, bullies at school will not mess with her any longer. She inflicted a lot of damage on her attackers. Even friends of your grandaughter are now safer. Bullies usually act tough but often can not it back up.

 

[easyrider]

My daughter had a meeting with the principle as she was called in to pick Aly up because Aly was suspended for the rest of the day. The other girls sat in the office lobby until school was out or were taken home by a parent. They all go back to school Monday. It is our belief that self defence is always acceptable but excessive force is not tolerated in most situations. The knee to the head that broke the other girls nose seems excessive to me but my son is her trainer and feels it wasnt excessive because Aly broke contact right after the strike. Aly said she counter punched and the other girl rushed her trying to pull her hair so she grabed her head and kneed her in the face.
When did 11 year old girls start fighting in school ? I have mixed feelings on this whole thing.

 

[Karen G]

The knee to the head that broke the other girls nose seems excessive to me

No, I don't think anyone else with bother Aly with those results! I imagine even the boys will think twice about upsetting her. And I just want to add that I applaud Aly for being able to defend herself.

 

[dougp26364]

Our dtr is now 16, but remember hearing about the knock down drag out 6th grade fights in school involving certain girls, who were supposed to be friends . Those involved had school counseling, I understand the school finally told the same parents in 8th grade they needed to go outside for further counseling. Our school was not helpful imho when our dtr had a conflict in 8th grade, blind eye a school secretary told me. The parents who were told to get outside counseling continued to believe their dtrs were just fine as "all kids do things" :annoyed: . I have heard from another parent the one gal that caused problems for us in 8th grade contines on with 'her way of dealing with other girls' in another highschool, and her parents still don't believe there is a problem.

We had issues when our son was in middle school. After trying to work with the school and getting nowhere, I finally told them I was telling our son the gloves were off and to mop the floor with this kid. They told me they'd suspend him and I retorted that they had already said they'd suspend him if he came to them one more time complaining about this problem. If he was going to get suspended, he was at least going to get satisfaction and, maybe if he beat the tar out of the bully, the bully would leave him alone. Only then did the school show an interest and take care of the problem.

 

[dougp26364]

...When did 11 year old girls start fighting in school ? I have mixed feelings on this whole thing.

I don't know but back in the 70's there were girl fights. I always found girl fights to be rather nasty. More so that the boys who tend to square off and punch at each other. Girls slap, pull hair, rip clothes, gouge eyes and claw each other until someone pulls them apart.

 

[DebBrown]

I don't know but back in the 70's there were girl fights. I always found girl fights to be rather nasty. More so that the boys who tend to square off and punch at each other. Girls slap, pull hair, rip clothes, gouge eyes and claw each other until someone pulls them apart.

My DH tells a story about when he was in grade school and heard there was a girl fight outside. He rushed out to see and found it was his two sisters.

Yes, girls that age can be vicious. It's not just physical fighting but all kinds of very mean stuff.

I'm impressed with Ally's fighting! I bet those bullies were surprised. Let's hope it doesn't escalate. Next time the bullies will be prepared and have reinforcements. Hopefully, they learned their lesson and will stay away.

Deb

 

[Sandy VDH]

I guess size matters.

I was 6'0" tall by the end of the 7th grade, so about 12-13 years old. I was the tallest in my class, at that age the boys have yet to have any growths spurts, so I towered over the boys as well, as well as most of my teachers.

Never personally experienced any bullies, so I think size matters.

I am shocked by these postings on you tube of fights in general. Sometimes I think that is what drives some of this behavior.

Glad Aly was able to defend herself. Either they will leave her alone, or with some wacked out kids, it could led to escalation, the get even mentality. Some people never know when to leave well enough alone.

 

[DeniseM]

Even though your granddaughter did not start the fight, under the school rules, she may be in more trouble because the other girl was more badly injured. These days, schools aren't interested in who started it - fighting is just not acceptable, and they tell kids to walk away no matter what the provocation. If a student is jumped, that may not be possible - it may not have been possible for your granddaughter. I am sure that for an 11 year old it was an overwhelming situation and she just reacted instinctually to protect herself, but the school may feel that she used excessive force. I have seen that happen at my school and it's best if her parents are prepared, just in case. Hope everything works out OK for her.

 

[Patri]

Both sides of the story need to be heard from every girl. No one may be totally innocent in this case. The school should have separated them and interviewed each on what happened, and see if the stories match. Plus, what is the history between the girls? Has there been reported trouble before?
Adept administrators can ususally get to the bottom of these incidents fairly quickly. They must then act appropriately in the discipline.

 

[dougp26364]

.....they tell kids to walk away no matter what the provocation........

This is true. They also turn a blind eye to stopping bullying themselves for fear of being sued. If you're child is a victim it can be extremely difficult trying to get things settled without breaking rules.It really takes a concerned, persistant parent.

 

[pjrose]

Both of my kids had problems with others bullying them. Mine tended to be more academic and just didn't fit in as well with many of the others.

We put them in Karate classes (Kenpo - which focuses on self defense strategies) in around 5th grade or so. DS used it twice against bullies. Once when a boy grabbed him around the neck from behind, he immediately shot both elbows back into the kid's torso. Another time a kid tried to punch DS in the face, and DS moved his arm up in an L and blocked the punch. In both cases, the boys were surprised at DS's speed and reaction, and that was the end of it. A few days after one of these incidents another kid started to come after DS, and one of the two against whom DS had defended himself intervened and said "leave him alone, he's ok". Interesting that showing the ability to defend himself made him "ok".

DD was repeatedly teased by a particular girl, with whom she had three classes. Finally toward the end of the day DD just blew up and punched the girl. The principal talked to both (separately) and decided not to put either in detention. A few weeks later the girl was still making catty remarks to DD, and again DD lost her temper - this time both got detention, and after that the school changed the girls' schedules to keep them separate.

I would be concerned about the friction between these kids continuing, and would definitely talk to the principal or guidance counselor, and be sure everything is in writing just in case of future problems. Emails are great - you'll have a dated written record. When DD had problems in 11th grade with a boy who is known to be quite annoying (just always poking, grabbing, interrupting) and I wanted the school to keep this kid away from DD, I was able to dig up emails documenting problems back to 7th grade.

 

[stevedmatt]

I know you never said TKD or any other form of karate. TKD and most other karate are not truly meant for self defense. They focus on striking skills. They commonly use offense as defense.

I do condone your daughters behavior and feel quite the same as others above that she shouldn't have much trouble with any kids in school who remember this incident. There are however other non striking, defensive martial arts (Judo and Jujutsu) that are more appropriate for younger children to learn, but she can't be blamed for for acting as she was taught.

 

[CarolF]

Aly's skill comes from the training she has recieved, which has included full contact fighting with proper head gear and gloves.

What an interesting thread. I understand that the school organises counselling for all the children but I also hope that your little grand daughter gets to discuss how she feels about inflicting such injuries. Given that she has only fought with gloves and head gear, I imagine she would be mighty surprised/shocked at the injuries she caused. Blood was spilt and I doubt she would have seen many bloody injuries with swelling at her training sessions.

It's a pretty dramatic outcome and there will be a lot of chatter around the school and community which she will have to cope with also. She has been given a wonderful gift in being taught to look after herself physically. I'd be less concerned about further physical attacks and more concerned about emotional/verbal abuse/attacks from different groups.

 

[thheath]

No matter how you slice it, it's still better for her to be able to defend herself rather than be a victim now or in the future.

 

[AwayWeGo]

Bullies Are Cowards. Standing Up To Them Sooner is Better Than Waiting Till Later.

No matter how you slice it, it's still better for her to be able to defend herself rather than be a victim now or in the future.

You are correct, sir.

Not only that, the surest way to keep getting picked on is to run away from the bullies.

Standing up to bullies, unfortunately, is the only way of getting the bullies to go pick on somebody else instead.

That being the case, it's better to stand up to the bullies the very 1st time they try something, rather than to keep getting picked on over & over.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[Ann-Marie]

Our son was harassed continuely by another student when he was in 6th grade. My son would never lay a hand on anyone, and constantly took this bullying with bruises to show for it. We spoke with the principal and Dean of Students. It never stopped. Tried to get in touch with the family, with no luck. My husband finally went to court and got a PINS against the other kid. The court then notifies the parents that if this student touches my son again, he would be arrested. It stopped immediately. It's a shame it had to go that far, but we have to protect our children.

 

[pjrose]

Our son was harassed continuely by another student when he was in 6th grade. My son would never lay a hand on anyone, and constantly took this bullying with bruises to show for it. We spoke with the principal and Dean of Students. It never stopped. Tried to get in touch with the family, with no luck. My husband finally went to court and got a PINS against the other kid. The court then notifies the parents that if this student touches my son again, he would be arrested. It stopped immediately. It's a shame it had to go that far, but we have to protect our children.

Good for you. We often talked about getting a restraining order (or similar order) for several specific bullies, but never pursued it. I wish we had.

 

[csalter2]

I have read this thread with an interest from a principal's view. I work in a high school and this was a middle school situation.

At my high school we don't have many fights at all. We can go months without fights. I believe because students know the rules and the consequences. A second fight of any kind gets you OUT automatically. It is rare that someone comes out of the blue and starts a fight with someone. There is usually some provocation, dialog, or something that causes the fight. With girls it is usually some boy. However, this is a middle school situation so it could be anything that initiated it.

It is also important to note that regardless of who started a fight both sets of parents usually want discipline for the other student. In this case for example, the OP's granddaughters parents probably feel she was justified in defending herself and should not be punished but the other girls who attacked her should be hung out to dry. Believe me the girl whose nose was broken probably wants a restraining order on the OP's granddaughter and probably feels she should be expelled for all of the blood she is seeing. That's the way it is today.

As a principal, my concern would be that ALL kids feel safe at my school. I don't want any kid looking over their shoulders all day worrying if they are going to be attacked. They are there to learn and learning will be obstructed if they are in fear for some reason.

I would have all three parents in my office to lay down the law. All parties would no the consequences of future incidents. I would discover what the real reasons for the incident. My assistant principals would have all parties' witness statements as well as those of witnesses. There would be resolution for parents as they will have an opportunity to converse with their daughters and each other in an amicable fashion in my presence. Also, during the session I let the kids know that their friends will to keep it going and to tell them that it's over. Their friends usually stir the pot. I tell the combatants that they are entertainment for everyone. They are the HBO Special is what I tell them.

99% of the time. This is a slam dunk. Sometimes later on the combatants in time become friends. I would not be surprised since these girls are so young that this could happen. This is life and kids are not perfect. They don't always handle situations like adults all of the time.

One last item is that it is not easy for school staff to be every where at every time as it pertains to bullying. Some parents have unrealistic expectations as to what schools can actually do. Bullying or teasing can happen frequently at times when no one is around. A similar situation would be asking police to monitor someone all the time because they might mug you. That is not happening. It is important that you teach your child to handle these situations and let you know and the school know. Documentation can help but what that student does can only be determined by that student.