Flexchange sharply restricted in March 2024 (along with ePlus changes)

[StaceyM]

There was a two bedroom for check-in yesterday to Marriott Waiohai. I could see a trading power issue, with one of my non-Marriott weeks able to see this unit, but not other non-Marriott deposits. I don't think anyone took that week. What good does it do to have a trading power issue for the day of check-in?

I spoke to Mark (the TUG contact for Interval). He said normally it is in Interval's interest that the inventory be used by anyone rather than "burned", so he was happy to escalate the issue of not being able to book inventory due to trading power in the 0-13 day window.

Mark also said that deposit date (how far in advance something was deposited compared to the checkin) was an important factor in trade value.

He said that some of the info given to me by the CSR with regards to the ePlus inventory pool was wrong, so I will edit/correct the OP. He said that the only different inventory pools are "Exchange" and "Getaway", where you pay cash for Getaway and everything else is in the same inventory pool exchanged for weeks subject to trading power. I have no idea who the CSR checked with to confirm the erroneous info.

 

[bnoble]

Phone reps are measured, in part, by how many (paid) transactions they close per hour. When you call asking questions about a transaction you cannot make, they have an incentive to get you off the phone quickly. That's not to suggest they were lying. But, if they believe they know the reason why you cannot see the inventory in question, they aren't going to spend a lot of time verifying their understanding.

 

[StaceyM]

Phone reps are measured, in part, by how many (paid) transactions they close per hour. When you call asking questions about a transaction you cannot make, they have an incentive to get you off the phone quickly. That's not to suggest they were lying. But, if they believe they know the reason why you cannot see the inventory in question, they aren't going to spend a lot of time verifying their understanding.

Actually, the first rep I spoke to acted like the call was dropped. "If you can hear me, check your phone settings..." until I hung up. The second rep "somehow" disconnected the call. The third rep seemed to take time to check with a supervisor or authority, but obviously something was missed.

If that's the way they're paid, that makes a lot of sense.

 

[bnoble]

It's partly that, and partly those "how likely are you to..." surveys, but a disconnected call never answers the survey.

 

[marmite]

- It was super common to trade in 1 bedroom SDO Gold+ weeks for weeks at Nanea.

In all of those examples, the person performing the trade is receiving SIGNIFICANTLY more value than what was given up. I loved it -- I took advantage of it all the time, but all of these great trades do come at the expense of people who don't know how to maximize their value.

While it does impact me, tons of tuggers, and it impacts a half dozen of my good friends and family that I got interested in timeshares / exchanging, I think overall it will create a more healthy balance. The people that understand how things work will always receive more value than what they put in.

I felt like you were directly addressing ME here. lol But yes, there are lots of our TUG friends whom this applies to.

Things keep changing in Interval, we pivot and do the best we can do. I'm not ready to give up any of my units yet, but I can accept there will come a day (probably quite soon) where I will actually have to give up a whole 2BR to exchange into something I want.

 

[CericRushmore]

I spoke to Mark (the TUG contact for Interval). He said normally it is in Interval's interest that the inventory be used by anyone rather than "burned", so he was happy to escalate the issue of not being able to book inventory due to trading power in the 0-13 day window.

Mark also said that deposit date (how far in advance something was deposited compared to the checkin) was an important factor in trade value.

He said that some of the info given to me by the CSR with regards to the ePlus inventory pool was wrong, so I will edit/correct the OP. He said that the only different inventory pools are "Exchange" and "Getaway", where you pay cash for Getaway and everything else is in the same inventory pool exchanged for weeks subject to trading power. I have no idea who the CSR checked with to confirm the erroneous info.

So, did Mark confirm that there has been a change into out trading works, and if so, what change did he confirm?

 

[CPNY]

That doesn't account for the difference in value or popularity of the location. A Westin Hawaii studio can see DVC 2beds. They would get a downgrade with your approach.

I agree that a Westin Hawaii studio should be able to see a DVC 2 bedroom. But so should a WKV Platinum week small 1 bedroom. Arizona in the Winter/Spring has a lot to offer, just as much as Hawaii. I'd expect a SVV small one bedroom to pull less inventory than a Hawaii studio but even that SVV should be able to see more than just a Marriott studio if there are true one bedrooms available.

This is going to be a wildly unpopular opinion but Id rather them increase the upgrade fee rather than not see the unit at all. Would I trade a small SVV one bedroom for a 2 bedroom Nanea and pay an upgrade fee of 500 rather than 99? Probably.....

 

[CPNY]

I do wonder how non Marriott and non Vistana units are doing with trade power these days.

 

[StaceyM]

So, did Mark confirm that there has been a change into out trading works, and if so, what change did he confirm?

We have always been at war with Eastasia.

Basically he said there have always been restrictions (agreed, but very few in my experience) and now there are still restrictions, with no admission that there was a big change other than the three-week glitch where a bunch of us couldn't see Marriott (which was fixed).

I had him look through my history and see some of the bookings I have pulled in the past with both high season and low season weeks from my resort, but he remained unconvinced. And then he threw in the deposit date factor, and at that point there is not enough evidence in my account to prove anything. I've only had this account for a couple of years, so there's just not that much history. Maybe someone with a longer track record would be more convincing.

You win some, you lose some.

 

[StaceyM]

I think what Interval has probably seen is that a small percentage of their customers ended up getting a disproportionate amount of "quality" exchanges without providing a commensurate level of value back in exchange.

Maybe that drove some of the decisions; your Hyatt example was an excellent point.

But there is also an accounting argument to be made:
Last minute bookings (even if the inventory is nicer than your unit "deserves") helps Interval reduce a liability on the books. They owed me a week for my deposit, and they were able to erase that debt with a room that otherwise would have gone empty (generally something that a previous booker canceled and can't use), so basically "for free".

It's not like we're sharks taking inventory from advance planners, more we're cleaning up the mess when their advance plans fall through. We're actually the little fish that swim around the shark's teeth. . And that's a valid service in any ecosystem.

 

[Hindsite]

It's not like we're sharks taking inventory from advance planners, more we're cleaning up the mess when their advance plans fall through. We're actually the little fish that swim around the shark's teeth. . And that's a valid service in any ecosystem.

My reading of the MVW investor presentation into on how they use II is exactly that, they find it to be a great place to get inventory shifted, and the trading power requirements clearly do relax inside 60 days so they're already where you want them to be.
The also push some exchange inventory out to accom certs or getaways at short notice to make it even ore accessible and affordable.
What is missing to do what you want?

 

[bizaro86]

We have always been at war with Eastasia.

Basically he said there have always been restrictions (agreed, but very few in my experience) and now there are still restrictions, with no admission that there was a big change other than the three-week glitch where a bunch of us couldn't see Marriott (which was fixed).

I had him look through my history and see some of the bookings I have pulled in the past with both high season and low season weeks from my resort, but he remained unconvinced. And then he threw in the deposit date factor, and at that point there is not enough evidence in my account to prove anything. I've only had this account for a couple of years, so there's just not that much history. Maybe someone with a longer track record would be more convincing.

You win some, you lose some.

Realistically he's not going to confirm a change that we have no way of proving to a bunch of customers who are going to be upset by it.

I think the primary motivation here is likely to sell more trust points, by making it harder for weeks owners (especially those at other brands) to get MVC weeks.

 

[Hindsite]

I do wonder how non Marriott and non Vistana units are doing with trade power these days.

From what I have read, there has been a lot of churn. Hyatt, Welk and Diamond have had significant devaluations in their points usage. For Hyatt that turns them from an excellent trader to good, not sure for the others.
I've also seen some comments about independents not seeing MVC at all or seeing a lot less, that could be related to the glitch mentioned above.

Lots of people still reporting they can't see any DVC for resorts outside of the Orlando area, when you think they would see at least a studio. It almost seemed to be a north east US issue, but that didn't really work as an explanation as there were plenty of people who could see stuff too.

Given the number of variables in Trading power and the potential effect of deposit date as well as relative TDI and location popularity its very difficult to get to the bottom of why people can or can't see things. The key differentiator remains the ability to understand how the ownership works in II and how to use that to its best, people who do that seem to have better outcomes than people who don't. Same as so much in life.....

 

[VacationForever]

I believe the biggest dissatisfaction comes from non MVC/Vistana owners. The MVC/Vistana preference period impacts non-MVC/Vistana brand weeks as they always have. The refinement of making valuable MVC/Vistana weeks harder to trade into impacts everyone. But MVC/Vistana owners still have first dibs by using a larger/premium week. By the time the preference period is over, even if these weeks are still available, the increased trade power needed to trade into them is going to be felt by non-MVC/Vistana weeks owners. I don't believe anything has changed other than high value weeks requiring weeks with higher trade power to be able to access them.

Preference period within Flexchange is nothing new, it has always been there for as long as I remember.

 

[Hindsite]

I believe the biggest dissatisfaction comes from non MVC/Vistana owners. The MVC/Vistana preference period impacts non-MVC/Vistana brand weeks as they always have. The refinement of making valuable MVC/Vistana weeks harder to trade into impacts everyone. But MVC/Vistana owners still have first dibs by using a larger/premium week. By the time the preference period is over, even if these weeks are still available, the increased trade power needed to trade into them is going to be felt by non-MVC/Vistana weeks owners. I don't believe anything has changed other than high value weeks requiring weeks with higher trade power to be able to access them.

Preference period within Flexchange is nothing new, it has always been there for as long as I remember.

People get too bent out of shape about the preference period being some kind of problem for non-MVC owners. Its no different than the DVC, Hyatt and other brand internal exchange systems running their course before inventory goes into II general release, but much less restrictive for general II users.

With MVC there's a significant upside as you can often find MVC inventory available outside of preference +12 months out whereas Hyatt and DVC are usually no earlier than 6 months ahead. You can get prime MVC Christmas and new Year inventory in Orlando now out of preference, but you can't get the other leading brands for a few months, if at all.

If MVC happened not to use II as the internal weeks trading platform nobody would care, its a complete red herring.

 

[CPNY]

From what I have read, there has been a lot of churn. Hyatt, Welk and Diamond have had significant devaluations in their points usage. For Hyatt that turns them from an excellent trader to good, not sure for the others.
I've also seen some comments about independents not seeing MVC at all or seeing a lot less, that could be related to the glitch mentioned above.

Lots of people still reporting they can't see any DVC for resorts outside of the Orlando area, when you think they would see at least a studio. It almost seemed to be a north east US issue, but that didn't really work as an explanation as there were plenty of people who could see stuff too.

Given the number of variables in Trading power and the potential effect of deposit date as well as relative TDI and location popularity its very difficult to get to the bottom of why people can or can't see things. The key differentiator remains the ability to understand how the ownership works in II and how to use that to its best, people who do that seem to have better outcomes than people who don't. Same as so much in life.....

Interesting. Picking up a colonies 4 bedroom has always been in the back of my mind but now, it's not even a thought. If something like a colonies cannot pick up Disney or a decent Marriott resort, I'm not so sure it's needed. Although even trading into a two bedroom in a Sheraton or Marriott in Orlando still beats buying a getaway.

 

[escanoe]

Picking up a colonies 4 bedroom has always been in the back of my mind but now, it's not even a thought. If something like a colonies cannot pick up Disney or a decent Marriott resort, I'm not so sure it's needed. Although even trading into a two bedroom in a Sheraton or Marriott in Orlando still beats buying a getaway.

Is it just me, or is this thread existing in a pocket outside of reality?

I just searched with 1/2 of my "The Colonies" 4 BR. In current inventory it is giving me 12 check-in dates for Old Key West and 11 check-in dates for Saratoga Springs? Some of each are 2 Bedrooms. I can't tell anything has changed.

As for the expectation someone is going to match a lot of Disney inventory outside Orlando ... that was hardly ever reality back in RCI and I have not seen it since they rejoined II.

I am checking out from this thread. Somone please DM me if you think I am off my rocker.

Note: I also own a week 52 Massanutten Mountainside Villas that trades in II (it is a level below premiere). I have noticed in the last few week it is seeing about half the disney inventory it previously did. I assumed this likely signals demand for Disney is still growing in II and it may be taking more trading power as time goes by.

 

[VacationForever]

Is it just me, or is this thread existing in a pocket outside of reality?

I just searched with 1/2 of my "The Colonies" 4 BR. In current inventory it is giving me 12 check-in dates for Old Key West and 11 check-in dates for Saratoga Springs? Some of each are 2 Bedrooms. I can't tell anything has changed.

As for the expectation someone is going to match a lot of Disney inventory outside Orlando ... that was hardly ever reality back in RCI and I have not seen it since they rejoined II.

I am checking out from this thread. Somone please DM me if you think I am off my rocker.

Note: I also own a week 52 Massanutten Mountainside Villas that trades in II (it is a level below premiere). I have noticed in the last few week it is seeing about half the disney inventory it previously did. I assumed this likely signaled demand for Disney is still growing in II and it may be taking more trading power as time goes by.

You are not off the rocker. It is easy to whine about not seeing certain inventory.

 

[CPNY]

Is it just me, or is this thread existing in a pocket outside of reality?

I just searched with 1/2 of my "The Colonies" 4 BR. In current inventory it is giving me 12 check-in dates for Old Key West and 11 check-in dates for Saratoga Springs? Some of each are 2 Bedrooms. I can't tell anything has changed.

As for the expectation someone is going to match a lot of Disney inventory outside Orlando ... that was hardly ever reality back in RCI and I have not seen it since they rejoined II.

I am checking out from this thread. Somone please DM me if you think I am off my rocker.

Note: I also own a week 52 Massanutten Mountainside Villas that trades in II (it is a level below premiere). I have noticed in the last few week it is seeing about half the disney inventory it previously did. I assumed this likely signals demand for Disney is still growing in II and it may be taking more trading power as time goes by.

This is good to hear. We can only go off of what people are reporting with their independents. As you stated with your Massanutten MV unit, you're noticing less Disney inventory than it previously pulled. Time will tell if the Colonies moves to see less in the future, hopefully nothing changes with that. Are you currently seeing similar Marriott inventory that you used to see with the Colonies or have you seen a decline there? I don't think anyone around here expects to see any DVC outside of Orlando. The Colonies resort has always been seen as a great independent trader, I do hope it stays that way.

You are not off the rocker. It is easy to whine about not seeing certain inventory.

Of course people will be upset about having their ownerships decline. Who wants to see anything increase in cost but decrease in value?

 

[bnoble]

As for the expectation someone is going to match a lot of Disney inventory outside Orlando

Agreed. Resorts outside the Big Two (SSR, OKW) were rare. Anything outside the Other Three (VWL, BWV, and AKV) were not quite lottery rare. They happened once in a blue moon, but only just.

I assumed this likely signals demand for Disney is still growing in II

For now. I've been paying attention DVC since the last time they moved from II to RCI. In the current II iteration, trade power required for DVC (or, equivalently, granted to other deposits) has fluctuated up and down over time. It has definitely not been a linear process, and there is no reason to expect it to be any different going forward.

In fact, based on this plus a few other Sightings threads, I'm convinced that II's trade power evaluations change a lot more often than most of us suspect. It definitely seems to be more dynamic than RCI's current model. Several years ago, the TPUs granted to my units in RCI tended to bounce around within +/- 10% or so, but they seem to have settled down into more stable numbers.

 

[StaceyM]

My reading of the MVW investor presentation into on how they use II is exactly that, they find it to be a great place to get inventory shifted, and the trading power requirements clearly do relax inside 60 days so they're already where you want them to be.
The also push some exchange inventory out to accom certs or getaways at short notice to make it even ore accessible and affordable.
What is missing to do what you want?

Before March, within the 60-day Flexchange window:
1. When I saw inventory with one week, I could book with any of the weeks I had on deposit, regardless of trading power.
2. I could generally see everything in that showed up in the Sightings thread that wasn’t specifically listed as “Marriott preference” or “Vistana preference”. (There was a possible exception of Four Seasons and higher Disney resorts. Most of the time I couldn’t see those, but sometimes I did, and I always assumed it was because people snatched them up quickly.)
3. I had not heard anyone say (within the 60-day Flexchange window and outside of specifically designated Marriott/Vistana preference inventory) that there was available inventory that they could see with X week but not Y week. That was literally the *point* of Flexchange, that trading power restrictions were minimal/lifted.

Now things are more tightly restricted, where in the 60-day window
1. Much of the desirable inventory is restricted where only my highest/higher trading power weeks can book it.
2. I cannot see most of the Marriott inventory in the sightings thread, especially above studio-size units.

What I would like to see (and I think is realistic win-win for Interval to prevent breakage while avoiding re-sellers) is that within the 14- or 7- or even 3-day window, that the trading power restrictions be restored to pre-March levels.

 

[klpca]

At least this should hamper the people who book flexchange inventory and turn around and try to rent the units. That frustrates the heck out of me to see something in the LMR section that I *just* saw on II. Sure, I wasn't going to book it, but it should be available to II members to book for as long as it takes.

 

[CericRushmore]

At least this should hamper the people who book flexchange inventory and turn around and try to rent the units. That frustrates the heck out of me to see something in the LMR section that I *just* saw on II. Sure, I wasn't going to book it, but it should be available to II members to book for as long as it takes.

Just to confirm, I thought people aren't allowed to rent II exchanges, getaways or certs. Are people getting away with this!

 

[dioxide45]

Just to confirm, I thought people aren't allowed to rent II exchanges, getaways or certs. Are people getting away with this!

Yes, it happens a lot more than we know.

 

[klpca]

Just to confirm, I thought people aren't allowed to rent II exchanges, getaways or certs. Are people getting away with this!

They are not, and I have reported it to II in the past - their phone number is right in the ad sometimes - yet I see the same users doing it over and over again. I don't pay a ton of attention because I *do* have a life but every once in awhile I see a weird location that I don't normally see when doing searches on Interval. When the same unusual unit shows up here in the LMR section it catches my eye. But I have given up on reporting. Apparently they don't really care.