First Time TS Buyer Interested in Resale Market Post DC Trust Point Presentation

[infamouslysind]

Hello! My husband and I attended a sales presentation with Marriott and we feel like the flexibility of the point system aligns with our travel goals and we are considering an investment in this type of vacationing. On principle, we do not make impulse purchases so we used the time to get a much information as possible and are turning to you lovely folks for an unbiased opinion.

1) Is there a vacation destination you wish to visit most of the time or on a regular basis? if so where?
We want to explore many destinations, perhaps even ones not typically in our reach by day-to-day cash means [i.e. banking/borrowing points for big trips].
2) Do you want to visit your home resort at least half the time, or do you want to trade more than half the time?
The idea of a designated home resort is what makes a timeshare less appealing to us.
3) What are your 5 top trade destinations?
Not sure how to answer this given #1 & 2... but we are flexible in exploring even non-prime destinations during off peak times.
4) How many people do you usually travel with - total, including yourself?
85% of travel is 2 adults, 15% of travel is 2 adults + 2 teenagers
5) Can you travel any time, or are you locked into the school schedule?
85% of travel is free from time restrictions.
6) Can you make firm plans 12 or more mos. in advance?
Firm plans are doable in a 12 month window, but we prefer to plan 3-6 months in advance. Travel locked to a school schedule is only planned 10-12 months in advance.
7) Can you vacation for a full week at a time?
Sometimes yes, but we tend to travel more often if we can plan 5 day trips.
8) What level of accommodations do you prefer on a scale of 1 to 5 stars?
3+ stars, but willing to compromise down to 2 for a very desirable destination/time/etc.
9) How much can you afford to spend upfront, without financing?
$3,000
10) How much can you afford to spend every year for a maintenance fee that will come due right after Christmas, and increase each year?
$1,500
11) Are you a detail oriented planner?
Yes, extremely. My educational background was in engineering, and I presently work in academia.

12) Do you understand that once you buy a timeshare, it may be very difficult to sell or give away, and you are responsible for all fees, until you do?

 

[infamouslysind]

I meant to put yes for 12! We are buying this with the understanding that it is a depreciating asset, with essentially perceived value to the consumer.

 

[vail]

3-6 months--forget obtaining what you want.
Too many points chasing too few good weeks--or in demand weeks.

Marriott units consist of furnishings that for the most part are a lower quality than when they were first built.
This will continue to decline as owners complain about the maintenance fees, while Marriott continues to take a larger percentage each year.

Try renting the weeks you want.

 

[Passepartout]

There are many other systems than Marriott. I'd suggest you hang out on TUG and try renting TS stays from owners in various systems. Some are more luxurious than others, some have more locations than others. Some systems have more presence in certain locations. You don't mention where you live and if you prefer drive-to locations or those that entail airline travel & rental cars. Easy to see which costs more.

Your answer to question 1 doesn't offer a clue.

One truism that I wish the questionnaire isn't clear about is that almost everyone wants to use TS to travel to and explore multiple locations, but somehow it doesn't make clear that there is a cost of these exchanges (for the most part) that can rival the annual fees.

Soooo my advice, so far is to rent a few times, become acquainted with various systems and FOREMOST, if and when you decide to become owners, BUY RE$ALE- $AVE THOU$AND$!

Jim

 

[jp10558]

So - how do you feel about "paying" for a week at a likely very discounted amount and just staying the 5 days you want starting on a Sat (or sometimes Friday or Sunday)?

You sound like you might be able to work sort of how I work. First, I don't think this is as easy with Marriott, due to them using II, and II just having less inventory for getaways.

However, Wyndham might fit you well. You can get in for sub $2000 and at least sometimes free(if you're OK with higher yearly fees per point). Wyndham also gets you RCI, which does have IMO quite a lot of Extra Vacations and Last Call inventory(Cash Rate). Club Wyndham Access (the often free but higher maintenance fees) has no home resort. You get the ability to reserve at a lot of resorts at 13 months out (so you might have an easier time booking). Everyone can try and book at 10 months out, and TBH I've found reasonable availability "sometimes" at 6-8 months out.

So here's one thing you can do - which is what I tend to recommend. Look at Wyndham and see how many points you'd need for your average booking and see if the MFs are OK for you. Probably aim a bit higher just in case. You can "always" bank those points (first 3 months of the use year, but you should know if you're going to use them by then). Use these points for stays you can plan out 10+ months. Note, every stay costs a HK credit, and that's if it's 2 nights or 7. You get 1 HK credit per 70,000 pts, and after that it's ~$175 a booking. So 5 day stays and some banking might work out, but if you do a lower amount of points and want to do like 5 weekends, it'll cost you. These give you the best chance to pick a location (and Wyndham has a LOT of locations), date, and unit type. Especially if you're booking at 13 months ARP or 10 months Club window.

Then, use the RCI and look up the available cash rates when you're 3-6 months out. Pick from the list. Same for even more discounted Last Calls at less than 45 days out. These are great "pick from the list" if you can work that way, and are often very low prices, even compared to the MFs for the resort. I've booked Massanutten Regal Vistas twice for ~$650 all in for a week in the 2BR unit. I've booked Smuggs for similar rates. I've seen Williamsburg, Orlando, Tennessee, etc also. Just pay attention to resort fees (all the "cheap Mexican locations" that look amazing are too good to be true because they charge you $379 say, but have $1800 resort fee and $3-7,000 all inclusive fees).

EDIT: The RCI ones are almost always weeks, or the 3 or 5 day stay costs the same as a week, and almost always start on a Sat, with occasional Fri or Sun.

 

[infamouslysind]

There are many other systems than Marriott. I'd suggest you hang out on TUG and try renting TS stays from owners in various systems. Some are more luxurious than others, some have more locations than others. Some systems have more presence in certain locations. You don't mention where you live and if you prefer drive-to locations or those that entail airline travel & rental cars. Easy to see which costs more.

Your answer to question 1 doesn't offer a clue.

One truism that I wish the questionnaire isn't clear about is that almost everyone wants to use TS to travel to and explore multiple locations, but somehow it doesn't make clear that there is a cost of these exchanges (for the most part) that can rival the annual fees.

Soooo my advice, so far is to rent a few times, become acquainted with various systems and FOREMOST, if and when you decide to become owners, BUY RE$ALE- $AVE THOU$AND$!

Jim

We live in Chicago, we like to save money by driving, most recently driving to Orlando but that's not our longest trip. Obviously not possible for international destinations and islands, so those trips would be more occasional, closer to biennial.

Maybe then I'm looking at the wrong brand and buying different points on the resale market makes more sense? We are not picky travelers, and ultimately I can plan further ahead if that is the trick to maximizing the value for points. I have 195 hours of PTO every year with a lot of liberty to use that while K-12 is in session, and we do not travel nearly as much as we want.

I agree many points and high maintenance does not make sense for us, but, 1,500 points per year definitely got the kind of "big" trips we are interested in from the MVDC portfolio based on resort point values posted within this forum, and our thoughts are to rent anyway for sporadic less planned travel but now with access to cheaper rental market.

 

[infamouslysind]

So - how do you feel about "paying" for a week at a likely very discounted amount and just staying the 5 days you want starting on a Sat (or sometimes Friday or Sunday)?

You sound like you might be able to work sort of how I work. First, I don't think this is as easy with Marriott, due to them using II, and II just having less inventory for getaways.

However, Wyndham might fit you well. You can get in for sub $2000 and at least sometimes free(if you're OK with higher yearly fees per point). Wyndham also gets you RCI, which does have IMO quite a lot of Extra Vacations and Last Call inventory(Cash Rate). Club Wyndham Access (the often free but higher maintenance fees) has no home resort. You get the ability to reserve at a lot of resorts at 13 months out (so you might have an easier time booking). Everyone can try and book at 10 months out, and TBH I've found reasonable availability "sometimes" at 6-8 months out.

So here's one thing you can do - which is what I tend to recommend. Look at Wyndham and see how many points you'd need for your average booking and see if the MFs are OK for you. Probably aim a bit higher just in case. You can "always" bank those points (first 3 months of the use year, but you should know if you're going to use them by then). Use these points for stays you can plan out 10+ months. Note, every stay costs a HK credit, and that's if it's 2 nights or 7. You get 1 HK credit per 70,000 pts, and after that it's ~$175 a booking. So 5 day stays and some banking might work out, but if you do a lower amount of points and want to do like 5 weekends, it'll cost you. These give you the best chance to pick a location (and Wyndham has a LOT of locations), date, and unit type. Especially if you're booking at 13 months ARP or 10 months Club window.

Then, use the RCI and look up the available cash rates when you're 3-6 months out. Pick from the list. Same for even more discounted Last Calls at less than 45 days out. These are great "pick from the list" if you can work that way, and are often very low prices, even compared to the MFs for the resort. I've booked Massanutten Regal Vistas twice for ~$650 all in for a week in the 2BR unit. I've booked Smuggs for similar rates. I've seen Williamsburg, Orlando, Tennessee, etc also. Just pay attention to resort fees (all the "cheap Mexican locations" that look amazing are too good to be true because they charge you $379 say, but have $1800 resort fee and $3-7,000 all inclusive fees).

EDIT: The RCI ones are almost always weeks, or the 3 or 5 day stay costs the same as a week, and almost always start on a Sat, with occasional Fri or Sun.

This sounds a lot like what I was thinking to try, and definitely buying resale.

 

[LeslieDet]

It sounds like you would need to finance a points purchase, which may not be feasible if you are trying to purchase resale. Keep in mind that buying MVC Trust Points directly from MVC will result in you having a loan payment, in addition to the annual maintenance fees and travel costs. Do not finance a purchase. If you can't afford to buy, then wait until you can. The interest rates you'll pay to MVC are around 14%. And, if you only want to incur maintenance fees of around $1500/yr, with the points program, you are looking at a pretty small number, and you will not achieve much travel out of a small quantity of MVC Trust Points. (Note, if you purchase the Trust Points resale, you still have to pay MVC $3/point to activate them.)

With your stated goals, you may very well be better served by finding a resale deeded week in a destination you enjoy visiting, and then getting your own Interval International account, which would allow you to exchange into another location, subject to availability of course. And, the process takes planning, etc., too much to cover here. You can buy some resale weeks really inexpensively, and then you are still on the hook for the annual maintenance fees. Don't bother buying in Orlando, it is the most oversold location out there. You may be able to find some resale weeks in Hilton Head Island, which depending upon the season, may be decent traders in II. Possibly Las Vegas. You can also look for resales in Aruba, where the weather is always nice, just different wind issues.

There are many free timeshares out there; but personally, I'd avoid accepting a Sheraton FlexOptions product even if free, as the VOI as a resale is going to basically concentrate in Orlando (there are some other spots, but the majority of the Sheraton Flex resorts are in Orlando).

When you look for resale weeks, see if you can find a lock off unit. That would allow you to split a 2 bedroom into two weeks, one in the studio side and another in the 1B side. You may find that at the MVC Las Vegas property or Aruba, it won't be on HHI.

No matter what, with timeshare deeded weeks, you need to plan a year in advance. Good luck.

 

[bizaro86]

I think to get good advice you really need to answer the question about where you want to go.

Even if you narrowed it down by "type" of vacation (urban, national park, beach) or gave us your top 10 or something you'd get better responses.

 

[travelhacker]

I don't know that the points system would be a good fit.

You would pay $.82 per point in maintenance fees and $240 in club dues. So for 1500 points, you would pay about $1440 points.

I think my recommendation would be to go with something at say Marriott Grand Chateau. You could get a 1 bedroom for around $1500 and you'd pay around $1100 in maintenance fees per year.

You'd then want to join Interval International. You'd be able to get 1 really good trade a year (think Hawaii, Key West, Palm Beach, DVC), and if you are willing to travel in the offseason you can often get units in the offseason in places that have a lot of availability (like Orlando) on getaways or using Accommodation Certificates.

My brother in law and his family stayed in Orlando for 16 consecutive weeks on cheap getaways in 2021 (I would say prices for Marriott units have gone up since then). I think their average cost was about $350 per week.

Good luck!

 

[davidvel]

Hello! My husband and I attended a sales presentation with Marriott and we feel like the flexibility of the point system aligns with our travel goals and we are considering an investment in this type of vacationing. On principle, we do not make impulse purchases so we used the time to get a much information as possible and are turning to you lovely folks for an unbiased opinion.

1) Is there a vacation destination you wish to visit most of the time or on a regular basis? if so where?
We want to explore many destinations, perhaps even ones not typically in our reach by day-to-day cash means [i.e. banking/borrowing points for big trips].
2) Do you want to visit your home resort at least half the time, or do you want to trade more than half the time?
The idea of a designated home resort is what makes a timeshare less appealing to us.
3) What are your 5 top trade destinations?
Not sure how to answer this given #1 & 2... but we are flexible in exploring even non-prime destinations during off peak times.
4) How many people do you usually travel with - total, including yourself?
85% of travel is 2 adults, 15% of travel is 2 adults + 2 teenagers
5) Can you travel any time, or are you locked into the school schedule?
85% of travel is free from time restrictions.
6) Can you make firm plans 12 or more mos. in advance?
Firm plans are doable in a 12 month window, but we prefer to plan 3-6 months in advance. Travel locked to a school schedule is only planned 10-12 months in advance.
7) Can you vacation for a full week at a time?
Sometimes yes, but we tend to travel more often if we can plan 5 day trips.
8) What level of accommodations do you prefer on a scale of 1 to 5 stars?
3+ stars, but willing to compromise down to 2 for a very desirable destination/time/etc.
9) How much can you afford to spend upfront, without financing?
$3,000
10) How much can you afford to spend every year for a maintenance fee that will come due right after Christmas, and increase each year?
$1,500
11) Are you a detail oriented planner?
Yes, extremely. My educational background was in engineering, and I presently work in academia.

12) Do you understand that once you buy a timeshare, it may be very difficult to sell or give away, and you are responsible for all fees, until you do?

That survey is good to compare various systems. In regard to the Abound system, you need to realistically look at size/where/when/view type you will travel. Then go here and see how many points it will take to achieve that reservation: https://vacationpointexchange.com/mdc-point-charts/

Next do this calculation: 1.165 * PTS=cost of reservation
Compare this amount to what you could rent on Redweek, Marriott or other sites.

This is the basis for the calculation:
Acquisition amortized over 20 years for resale purchase + MF cost**
(($7 * pts)/20) + (.815 * pts)=reservation cost

**NOTE: MF will actually increase over time and should be considered over 20 year ownership.

 

[GTLINZ]

i would start by looking at the resorts in different systems (Marriott, Wyndham, HGVC, others?) and seeing which one you would prefer to own as far as internal reservations/locations. Then you have to consider points systems which are more flexible for partial weeks and multiple vacations (all 3 systems above have points) vs deeded weeks (not Wyndham or HGVC - and lockoff units suggested).

Then there is cost of entry. And factor in reservations (Interval and RCI add up). Also figure out if you prefer Interval resorts or RCI (i have owned both, much prefer Interval).

A lot to consider.

 

[infamouslysind]

I think to get good advice you really need to answer the question about where you want to go.

Even if you narrowed it down by "type" of vacation (urban, national park, beach) or gave us your top 10 or something you'd get better responses.

I hear you. Honestly, the real answer is most of these. We LOVE national parks and being outdoors in all temperatures so both mountains and beaches are great. Urban destinations are alright, but for shorter stays. I can see us buying off season trips on getaways, we see a lot of value in that.

 

[infamouslysind]

That survey is good to compare various systems. In regard to the Abound system, you need to realistically look at size/where/when/view type you will travel. Then go here and see how many points it will take to achieve that reservation: https://vacationpointexchange.com/mdc-point-charts/

Next do this calculation: 1.165 * PTS=cost of reservation
Compare this amount to what you could rent on Redweek, Marriott or other sites.

This is the basis for the calculation:
Acquisition amortized over 20 years for resale purchase + MF cost**
(($7 * pts)/20) + (.815 * pts)=reservation cost

**NOTE: MF will actually increase over time and should be considered over 20 year ownership.

YES! I love a good equation. I am going to explore and compare benefits across systems, I don't feel any loyalty to a particular brand so MVC might not be the end all be all.

 

[infamouslysind]

i would start by looking at the resorts in different systems (Marriott, Wyndham, HGVC, others?) and seeing which one you would prefer to own as far as internal reservations/locations. Then you have to consider points systems which are more flexible for partial weeks and multiple vacations (all 3 systems above have points) vs deeded weeks (not Wyndham or HGVC - and lockoff units suggested).

Then there is cost of entry. And factor in reservations (Interval and RCI add up). Also figure out if you prefer Interval resorts or RCI (i have owned both, much prefer Interval).

A lot to consider.

Great suggestions. I am currently comparing the different systems for their entry costs and flexibility.

Any advice on how to feel out my preference for interval or RCI? We see a lot of benefit in access to additional vacations in the off season through these options.

 

[davidvel]

I hear you. Honestly, the real answer is most of these. We LOVE national parks and being outdoors in all temperatures so both mountains and beaches are great. Urban destinations are alright, but for shorter stays. I can see us buying off season trips on getaways, we see a lot of value in that.

You are thinking like a TS salesperson wants you to, in generalities. You must have specific examples of actual places where TS resorts are. Pick 2-3 areas where you KNOW you will travel, pick a few specific TS in those areas, and then look at what it would cost (see below.)

YES! I love a good equation. I am going to explore and compare benefits across systems, I don't feel any loyalty to a particular brand so MVC might not be the end all be all.

That is just an example for MVC, as I am most familiar with it. Any prospective purchaser should do a similar evaluation with different companies, as noted above. Again, don't even think about buying until you know the actual cost for the specific resorts, including the size/where/when/view type you will utilize. Doing anything less is just guessing like the sales office wants you to do.

 

[infamouslysind]

I understand. I think we're having a more difficult time pinning locations because we really just don't know. I think my surest chose of action is to explore the different systems, rent from the marketplace and really get a feel for what is worth our time, efforts, and ultimately dollars.
I feel so inexperienced and totally ignorant, really. Only thing I do know, I never intend to buy new from a developer. That seems like the fastest way to overspend on such a depreciating item.

 

[davidvel]

I understand. I think we're having a more difficult time pinning locations because we really just don't know. I think my surest chose of action is to explore the different systems, rent from the marketplace and really get a feel for what is worth our time, efforts, and ultimately dollars.
I feel so inexperienced and totally ignorant, really. Only thing I do know, I never intend to buy new from a developer. That seems like the fastest way to overspend on such a depreciating item.

Totally understand. That is the smoke and mirrors that these TS are based on. Once you decide the details of your actual trips, all the platitudes go away and you see the true cost. However, even to rent you have to decide where/how you want to go. Redweek has some realistic prices (make sure to sort by date under rentals) that are pretty fair for most resorts.

 

[GTLINZ]

Any advice on how to feel out my preference for interval or RCI? We see a lot of benefit in access to additional vacations in the off season through these options.

The getaways/extra vacations tend to be limited so don't expect access to everything thru those. Orlando is so overbuilt you get good off season prices, which is what i used it for, and having Marriott in Interval helps because they have so many locations nationwide. Marriott has taken over Sheraton and others and they tend to show up also. RCi has Hilton but since my RCI access was thru Hilton so that did not help me.

I think you can go thru the resorts directory of both II and RCI to see what they have and where. As suggested, you really do want to identify places you would like to go - and even specific resorts.