First Post! Westgate "Upgrade" From Resale

[mdotyabut]

Hi all, first post here and want to get thoughts on this move:

Initial resale purchase:
- 2019 Florida Westgate Vacation Villas Resort (II Premier)
- 10,000 usd
- 1 week july lockout bi-yearly
- 10 person villa
- 1400 usd maintenance bi-yearly

Upgrade purchase
- 2024 Tennesse Westgate Smoky Mountain Resort (II Elite)
- 20,000 usd
- They would take back the the Florida villa
- 1 week floating bi-yearly
- 12 person, 2 + 1 bdrm (lockout available)
- 1400 usd maintenance bi-yearly

Intention:
- Get out of the ridiculous $700 exchange fee for resale (becomes 249)
- Greater flexibility with the lockout
- Sales really sold me on the trading power on II for an "Elite" resort
- Arguably we already put our foot halfway through the door in 2019 and this move was to put it in all the way and make the best out of our 2019 decision

Thoughts? and hi everyone - first time here, just discovered this forum yesterday and excited to become part of the community

 

[mdotyabut]

Also wanted to add:
- Contract signed 3 days ago, having a bit of buyers remorse (hence me finding my way onto here)
- Really looking for the "it's not so bad of a 'deal'"

 

[CaliSunshine]

Sorry to say this but I would rescind and get your 20K back.

You can get way better timeshares resale for 20K.

 

[CaliSunshine]

Westgate Smoky Mountain Resort & Water Park Timeshares For Sale | RedWeek

Buy a timeshare directly from Westgate Smoky Mountain Resort & Water Park owners, starting at just $1,000. Resales are almost always 30 - 50% cheaper than buying the same unit from the resort!

www.redweek.com

 

[CaliSunshine]

To make this a little clearer, someone is trying to sell the exact same contract on Redweek for 6K. https://www.redweek.com/posting/R1133332

So what the salesperson sold you has already lost over 2/3rds of its value the moment you walked out the door.

 

[CaliSunshine]

Now, it is true that this is one of the lowest maintenance fee Interval "Elite Tier" 3BR units I've seen. The problem, though, is that the largest chunk of the other "Elite" resorts in the Interval system (i.e. the ones you want to trade into) are either Marriott or Vistana, and owners of those units have a special preference period where they get first pick on any new deposits.

 

[mdotyabut]

Hmm, the crappy part about westgate resale is the $700 transfer fee - it definitely would be worth to go that route if my intention was to stay at this resort all the time but i do plan on exchanging most of the time

249 -> 700 is kind of not so bad if i’m saving 14k… but the problem doubles if i decide to do a lockout and split the unit it becomes 398 -> 1400

 

[mdotyabut]

Now, it is true that this is one of the lowest maintenance fee Interval "Elite Tier" 3BR units I've seen. The problem, though, is that the largest chunk of the other "Elite" resorts in the Interval system (i.e. the ones you want to trade into) are either Marriott or Vistana, and owners of those units have a special preference period where they get first pick on any new deposits.

Interesting… i am going to be completely honest and i am so unaware of how things work - that it was only this week i was made aware of interval on its own

so when it comes to my intention here; i kind of just want good value out of the exchanges (not elite to elite) -> more so value swaps of a 1bdrm to a 2/3bdrm in offseason last dibs locations

quantity over quality

 

[mdotyabut]

“Now, it is true that this is one of the lowest maintenance fee Interval "Elite Tier" 3BR units I've seen.” gives me a tingle in my heart and will help me sleep a bit better - again i thank you for the insight!!

 

[CaliSunshine]

Hmm, the crappy part about westgate resale is the $700 transfer fee - it definitely would be worth to go that route if my intention was to stay at this resort all the time but i do plan on exchanging most of the time

249 -> 700 is kind of not so bad if i’m saving 14k… but the problem doubles if i decide to do a lockout and split the unit it becomes 398 -> 1400

I'm not that familiar with Westgate but if you're saying the exchange fee is 700 dollars that's definitely an outlier. I've never heard of such a high exchange fee: generally it's what the exchange company charges ~200 and it's the same for retail and resale.

 

[amycurl]

The high internal Westgate exchange fee is part of how they punish resale owners


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[RX8]

Really looking for the "it's not so bad of a 'deal'"

Welcome to TUG!

It is a bad deal. My advice is to rescind.

The restrictions that Westgate places on their resale buyers is harsh, as you are already aware. That also makes Westgate deeds worth less than zero on the resale market. What that means is if you were to try and sell your week you would have to sweeten the offer beyond free and even with that you would have a hard time getting rid of it.

Another poster mentioned that Redweek has a similar Westgate for sale for $6,000, meaning that you will have immediately lost $14,000 with your purchase. Asking price and sold price are two different things. I would argue that the $14,000 loss is actually a $20,000 loss since it is likely worth zero.

Looking at eBay for all Westgate completed auctions, the highest sold timeshare was for $1.30 and that included free years usage and free closing. There were many unsold even for $1.

To be clear, these are not like cars so you are not trading a used 2019 Westgate for a brand new 2024 Westgate. Whether someone bought in 2000 or in 2024 everyone is using the same beds. You overpaid in 2019 but it sounds like you got great usage and family memories out of that purchase. Many on TUG over paid for their first timeshare as well. Best advice is to rescind, hang around TUG, research, ask questions, and research some more. You can find great timeshares on the resale market for prices well below $20,000. Timeshares that don’t have those Westgate restrictions. And an annual deed, not EOY like they are offering (if you like EOY you save even more on resale). Best of all, timeshares that will be worth something should you decide to sell at some point.

 

[Mongoose]

From everything I have read, Westgate is one of the more predatory and owner unfriendly resorts. Do you really want to spend more money with them? Seems to me there are many better options. Where is it you want to travel to?

 

[dioxide45]

I'm shocked that you paid $10,000 for a resale Orlando Westgate timeshare. I bet you made that prior owners year when you paid them that much. Very few Westgate properties are worth more than $1 on the resale market. Orlando isn't one of them.

 

[mdotyabut]

Welcome to TUG!

It is a bad deal. My advice is to rescind.

The restrictions that Westgate places on their resale buyers is harsh, as you are already aware. That also makes Westgate deeds worth less than zero on the resale market. What that means is if you were to try and sell your week you would have to sweeten the offer beyond free and even with that you would have a hard time getting rid of it.

Another poster mentioned that Redweek has a similar Westgate for sale for $6,000, meaning that you will have immediately lost $14,000 with your purchase. Asking price and sold price are two different things. I would argue that the $14,000 loss is actually a $20,000 loss since it is likely worth zero.

Looking at eBay for all Westgate completed auctions, the highest sold timeshare was for $1.30 and that included free years usage and free closing. There were many unsold even for $1.

To be clear, these are not like cars so you are not trading a used 2019 Westgate for a brand new 2024 Westgate. Whether someone bought in 2000 or in 2024 everyone is using the same beds. You overpaid in 2019 but it sounds like you got great usage and family memories out of that purchase. Many on TUG over paid for their first timeshare as well. Best advice is to rescind, hang around TUG, research, ask questions, and research some more. You can find great timeshares on the resale market for prices well below $20,000. Timeshares that don’t have those Westgate restrictions. Best of all, timeshares that will be worth something should you decide to sell at some point.

after reading all the feedback i am going to go forward with trying to rescind… now there’s a few points that worry me
1: since this was an “upgrade” anyone have any experience on what tends to happen to rescinded upgrades - specifically the previous property used in the upgrade (in this case the 2019 orlando)?
2: still at the resort, but the cancel clause involves action items with the main office in orlando; should i just action this when i get home? i really don’t want to ruin the rest of the trip for my family?
3: we’re here through an exchange, though the clause has a bunch of fees saying they can charge us 200+ / night if we decide to cancel… can they actually enforce that even though we’re here through an exchange?
4: again thanks for all the help on this!

 

[dioxide45]

I'm not that familiar with Westgate but if you're saying the exchange fee is 700 dollars that's definitely an outlier. I've never heard of such a high exchange fee: generally it's what the exchange company charges ~200 and it's the same for retail and resale.

Here is the chart of Westgate fees. It looks like the $700 is for internal exchanges to other Westgate resorts. I don't know if resale owners are able to use Interval International.

 

[dioxide45]

after reading all the feedback i am going to go forward with trying to rescind… now there’s a few points that worry me
1: since this was an “upgrade” anyone have any experience on what tends to happen to rescinded upgrades - specifically the previous property used in the upgrade (in this case the 2019 orlando)?
2: still at the resort, but the cancel clause involves action items with the main office in orlando; should i just action this when i get home? i really don’t want to ruin the rest of the trip for my family?
3: we’re here through an exchange, though the clause has a bunch of fees saying they can charge us 200+ / night if we decide to cancel… can they actually enforce that even though we’re here through an exchange?
4: again thanks for all the help on this!

1. The transaction should be reversed completely. They won't file the deed where you transferred your resale timeshare to them and they will refund any down payment you made. Basically it goes back to how it was before the purchase.
2. Follow all the instructions in the contract. If there is an email address to which you can send the rescission, send the email and follow up with either a certified mailing or even a first class letter (stamp) with a certificate of mailing. Ask them in the post office about the Certificate of Mailing. It is only an extra $1.95 on top of the cost of a stamp. If no email, or even a fax option, send certified mail and a regular first class letter.
3. Those provisions are if you are there on a promo packages. Ex $99 for three nights with the requirement to take a tour.

 

[RX8]

1: since this was an “upgrade” anyone have any experience on what tends to happen to rescinded upgrades - specifically the previous property used in the upgrade (in this case the 2019 orlando)? When you successfully rescind everything goes back to way it was before the purchase. You are refunded 100% and you still own your original timeshare.
2: still at the resort, but the cancel clause involves action items with the main office in orlando; should i just action this when i get home? i really don’t want to ruin the rest of the trip for my family? Follow the instructions exactly as shown in the contract. Send a simply letter, can be handwritten, stating your wish to rescind. You don’t need to state why. Include your names (all parties on the contract), address, contract # (if there is one) and ensure everyone signs. Send certified return receipt and keep copies of everything, including proof of postage date. Date you mailed is the official date of rescission, not when they receive it. Do not go back to sales and do not answer their phone calls. They will use extra pressure and lies trying to get you to change your mind. If you received a tablet or some other gift, and the contract says that you must return it if you rescind, advise them in your letter that you will send that separately and then mail it the cheapest way you can.
3: we’re here through an exchange, though the clause has a bunch of fees saying they can charge us 200+ / night if we decide to cancel… can they actually enforce that even though we’re here through an exchange? The purchase/rescission has nothing to do with your exchange.
4: again thanks for all the help on this! You’re welcome.

 

[Mongoose]

I'm shocked that you paid $10,000 for a resale Orlando Westgate timeshare. I bet you made that prior owners year when you paid them that much. Very few Westgate properties are worth more than $1 on the resale market. Orlando isn't one of them.

Not to be rude, but I imagine many Westgate owners would pay someone to take it.

 

[dioxide45]

A question I have for the OP, are you able to instead exchange through Interval International? How much is the fee to do that as a resale owner? If you can exchange through II, are you able to exchange into other Westgate resorts. We here on TUG don't see many Westgate resale owners in the wild. I would like to understand more about resale restrictions with Westgate from a Westgate owner. We tend to instead see non Westgate owners guessing, hypothesising or just hearsay. I'll send you a DM.

 

[CaliSunshine]

Here is the chart of Westgate fees. It looks like the $700 is for internal exchanges to other Westgate resorts. I don't know if resale owners are able to use Interval International.
View attachment 89831

Got it, thanks. Yeah that part was confusing because the whole sales pitch was about II: the resort level, the better trading power, etc. But I didn't know that timeshare developers were allowed to tack on extra fees to external exchange services so that threw me.

@mdotyabut I agree, please rescind and rescind today. The rescission timeline can be shorter than you think, and an unexpected medical issue or a closed post office can cost you in this case literally 10s of thousands of dollars. But after you rescind, I'd definitely call up II directly (from what people are saying I'd trust them more than Westgate) and see if you can have your own account in II outside the Westgate system and deposit your existing Westgate week. Since you like trading anyways, that might be an OK way to use your existing week to trade for vacations. 1,400 MF + 100 II membership + 200 exchange fee (rough numbers) is still a lot less than many people pay in maintenance fees for their 2 or 3 bedroom timeshares. Could be one way to make lemonade out of a lemon.

 

[CaliSunshine]

A question I have for the OP, are you able to instead exchange through Interval International? How much is the fee to do that as a resale owner? If you can exchange through II, are you able to exchange into other Westgate resorts. We here on TUG don't see many Westgate resale owners in the wild. I would like to understand more about resale restrictions with Westgate from a Westgate owner. We tend to instead see non Westgate owners guessing, hypothesising or just hearsay. I'll send you a DM.

Definitely talk to @dioxide45. He's one of the oldest and most knowledgeable active members here.

 

[mdotyabut]

A question I have for the OP, are you able to instead exchange through Interval International? How much is the fee to do that as a resale owner? If you can exchange through II, are you able to exchange into other Westgate resorts. We here on TUG don't see many Westgate resale owners in the wild. I would like to understand more about resale restrictions with Westgate from a Westgate owner. We tend to instead see non Westgate owners guessing, hypothesising or just hearsay. I'll send you a DM.

so i actually don't know... truthfully it was just this week that i was made aware of II... and it was only through the sales pitch i was made aware of it... (which led me to this forum so i can say that there was atleast a win in this whole experience lol...)

after this whole rescind will definitely get a hold of II and what that process is for my resale unit and can share that experience here... the extra exchange hypothetical of 700 was what i understood from sales but not confirmed... but i will try and confirm that with all ya'll here when i find out

 

[CaliSunshine]

Another poster mentioned that Redweek has a similar Westgate for sale for $6,000, meaning that you will have immediately lost $14,000 with your purchase. Asking price and sold price are two different things. I would argue that the $14,000 loss is actually a $20,000 loss since it is likely worth zero.

Looking at eBay for all Westgate completed auctions, the highest sold timeshare was for $1.30 and that included free years usage and free closing. There were many unsold even for $1.

Yes and to make my earlier statement clearer, I wouldn't pay 6K for that week, or any Westgate week (sorry @mdotyabut!)

If you have two hours, this documentary about their founder and his wife is quite entertaining: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Queen_of_Versailles
It's the only movie I've watched where I'm actively rooting for the main character to lose his house. But that's only because I know how much financial ruin he's brought on others.

 

[mdotyabut]

Definitely talk to @dioxide45. He's one of the oldest and most knowledgeable active members here.

Definitely will i will gladly become the wg guinea pig

Yes and to make my earlier statement clearer, I wouldn't pay 6K for that week, or any Westgate week (sorry @mdotyabut!)

If you have two hours, this documentary about their founder and his wife is quite entertaining: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Queen_of_Versailles
It's the only movie I've watched where I'm actively rooting for the main character to lose his house. But that's only because I know how much financial ruin he's brought on others.

Yup i figured, grateful to you for replying late last night regardless - helped me sleep and i will take you up on that and watch that, the comedic relief on top of how much better i feel since coming onto this forum - really is the start of turning my lemon into lemonade!