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Fires on Maui and in Lahaina

There are many reasons people visit Maui.


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My concerns are where will the permanent residents of Maui & Lahaina live for the next six months to a year and will they be able to rebuild their homes?
This is an excellent time for big corporations to purchase the land; to build those two (2) million dollars homes, hotels and resorts. IMHO
 
My concerns are where will the permanent residents of Maui & Lahaina live for the next six months to a year and will they be able to rebuild their homes?
This is an excellent time for big corporations to purchase the land; to build those two (2) million dollars homes, hotels and resorts. IMHO
jhfc, I hope you're kidding. Maybe put a couple of Vegas-style casinos in so the Hawaiians don't have to travel to LV so often? :wall:
"Vegas By The Sea", an awesome new gated and guard-dogged home development. :bawl:
 
My concerns are where will the permanent residents of Maui & Lahaina live for the next six months to a year and will they be able to rebuild their homes?
This is an excellent time for big corporations to purchase the land; to build those two (2) million dollars homes, hotels and resorts. IMHO
Your question begs my comment. Building one $2 million home vs housing for all the rest.

Others have compared the Lahaina /Maui disaster to other such.
However, this one is unique in regard to the tiny size of the Island.
Step 1 -- obtain housing for locals.
Step 2 -- restore power, water on island
Step 3 -- start to demolish and then rebuild. So many things required to do this -- from building materials to people in all skilled labor trades. And where will they be housed?

This will be a monumental task, even with all the money in the world.
 
people in all skilled labor trades. And where will they be housed?
When TS owners have been thinking hotel rooms & their own TSs should be avail again in (name an optimistic #) of weeks, I keep thinking about that, right there.

this one is unique in regard to the tiny size of the Island.
and the reality that it is one of the most isolated places on earth. Not a lot of commuting potential for work crews building homes or commercial buildings, other than, hey, what is that over there just to the north ... Look, thousands of rooms, some with kitchens. but who knows?
 
I don't remember if it was on this thread or the other one, but the talk of CA wildfires and PGE and my remembrance of who was accused of what how many times made me think I should look it up. So here you go. just 1 article. seems to say PGE in some way or another paying for 5 fires just in the purview of this 1 article at that moment. Seems to refer to 1 fire every yr from 2017 to "last year", which would be 2021. 2017+2018 settled $13.5 BB? 2020 "criminal charges". 2019 + 2021 settled $55 M.

 
When TS owners have been thinking hotel rooms & their own TSs should be avail again in (name an optimistic #) of weeks, I keep thinking about that, right there.


and the reality that it is one of the most isolated places on earth. Not a lot of commuting potential for work crews building homes or commercial buildings, other than, hey, what is that over there just to the north ... Look, thousands of rooms, some with kitchens. but who knows?

Hotels may be able to, and I certainly expect them to, rent to work crews etc. Timeshares are deeded property akin to condos, and not at all equivalent. We all know there are thousands of rental units on Maui, and I’m sure this will be solved.


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My concerns are where will the permanent residents of Maui & Lahaina live for the next six months to a year and will they be able to rebuild their homes?
This is an excellent time for big corporations to purchase the land; to build those two (2) million dollars homes, hotels and resorts. IMHO

I have many concerns about Maui.


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I don't remember if it was on this thread or the other one, but the talk of CA wildfires and PGE and my remembrance of who was accused of what how many times made me think I should look it up. So here you go. just 1 article. seems to say PGE in some way or another paying for 5 fires just in the purview of this 1 article at that moment. Seems to refer to 1 fire every yr from 2017 to "last year", which would be 2021. 2017+2018 settled $13.5 BB? 2020 "criminal charges". 2019 + 2021 settled $55 M.

I know my friend who was burnt out in the Paradise Camp Fire needed to file a claim to get money from PG&E. It was much more extensive than what she needed to do for her homeowner's insurance.
 
and another one from CA that I have heard about. in 1991, 2,843 single-families and 437 apts & condos burned. I have been told it took some people 4 yrs to get their new (much Bigger) home built due to insurance delays and lack of enough skilled-labor to build that many homes in such a small area. But of course, SF Bay area is 1000x more accessible than west Maui is.


 
Brick pavers cover much of the ground around the tree. I know nothing about banyan trees, but there may be some hope if the bricks protected the roots from the heat.
On the contrary, the brick pavers could very likely serve to have caused more damage to the tree. Why? Because they absorbed the intense heat of the fire and then--over the intervening days after the fire--held that radiant heat over a period of time that could have damaged the roots much more than if that heat had been exhausted through natural means (and likely did). Those bricks were not only not a heat shield, they were likely a thermal blanket.
 
People keep talking about $400,000 or a million house rebuilds but remember we're talking building on land that is owned already so don't include the land in your rebuild calculation.
But also consider that replacement / reproduction cost is usually much higher than the assessed / depreciated / market value of the buildings and improvements.
 
Very sad this having happened to Maui. TV said people didn't have warning ahead, Maui has Tsunami warning system that was not used.

One thing I read about online that happened on St Thomas USVI after IRMA is many places locals rented to live in were turned into reconstruction FEMA workers housing that was paying much higher rental rates then what the local people had been paying.
 
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The rebuilding will give Hawaiians an opportunity to rebuild better. It won't be an all-at-once organized rebuild because many entities and individuals own different properties, and all have (or don't have) their own insurance. It will take time to scrape off the damage, and landfills will have to be able to accept the waste. Then plans will have to be drawn, and many, many barges of building materials will have to be ordered, loaded and shipped. Laborers will have to be hired, and housed.

This will be a patchwork of construction. I wouldn't expect any semblance of 'normalcy' for 10 years of so.

The above said after my crystal ball rolled out of the truck at some grimy truck stop diesel fuel island and cracked to smithereens. Take it with however many grains of salt you wish.
 
The rebuilding will give Hawaiians an opportunity to rebuild better. It won't be an all-at-once organized rebuild because many entities and individuals own different properties, and all have (or don't have) their own insurance. It will take time to scrape off the damage, and landfills will have to be able to accept the waste. Then plans will have to be drawn, and many, many barges of building materials will have to be ordered, loaded and shipped. Laborers will have to be hired, and housed.

This will be a patchwork of construction. I wouldn't expect any semblance of 'normalcy' for 10 years of so.

The above said after my crystal ball rolled out of the truck at some grimy truck stop diesel fuel island and cracked to smithereens. Take it with however many grains of salt you wish.
Maybe they can rebuild "better", whatever that means. But historic Lahaina Town can never be rebuilt to be what it was. That is what is so tragic.
 
People keep talking about $400,000 or a million house rebuilds but remember we're talking building on land that is owned already so don't include the land in your rebuild calculation.
One question will be which landowners want to rebuild where all around you are charred remains of homes. May take a while.
 
Maybe they can rebuild "better", whatever that means. But historic Lahaina Town can never be rebuilt to be what it was. That is what is so tragic.
One of those things about history. It just can't be recreated. If you've been to Warsaw, the downtown area was bombed down to about waist high. They reconstructed it using old photos and paintings. It LOOKS like the historic center, but you can tell it's a replica of the original. Yes, the 'new' Lahaina won't be the old Lahaina, but you can't turn back the clock to last Sunday.

Jim
 
One question will be which landowners want to rebuild where all around you are charred remains of homes. May take a while.
Again, going back to my best friend and the Paradise Camp Fire. She chose not to rebuild, she still owns the land though. I don't think she is the only person who made that decision.
 
Maybe they can rebuild "better", whatever that means. But historic Lahaina Town can never be rebuilt to be what it was. That is what is so tragic.

Tragic is the loss of life.

Lahaina SHOULDN'T be put back to what it was. It wasn't a real, working, thriving town. It was a caricature of a Hawaiian seaport, before mass tourism. It is no more Hawaii than the Magic Kingdom is Florida.

The first question about how this will shake out is: How much of that town is fee-simple real estate? Because anything which isn't is controlled by the Bishop trust. They will decide what to build, without much (if any) public input. Only 10% of Hawaiian land is fee simple. However, most of the fee-simple real estate tends to be clustered together in giant wedges -- because that's how the original royal land grants worked. I live on such a wedge. Maybe Lahaina is such a place. Maybe not. Maui was never in contention for our retirement, so I haven't investigated real estate there.

Last time I visited, I was struck by how almost none of the commercial areas had anything at all for locals. And what little there was, drug stores and similar, clearly served tourists first, locals second. It is the same as Duval Street in Key West -- all commerce, all tourists, all the time.

It would solve a great many problems if Lahaina was built as a model for a sustainable Hawaii -- shops on the first floor. Residential on floors 2 and 3. And loads of medical offices, hardware stores, grocery stores and similar -- a town built for residents, which tourists may wish to visit.
 
One of those things about history. It just can't be recreated. If you've been to Warsaw, the downtown area was bombed down to about waist high. They reconstructed it using old photos and paintings. It LOOKS like the historic center, but you can tell it's a replica of the original. Yes, the 'new' Lahaina won't be the old Lahaina, but you can't turn back the clock to last Sunday.

Jim
That's kind of my point.
 
One of those things about history. It just can't be recreated. If you've been to Warsaw, the downtown area was bombed down to about waist high. They reconstructed it using old photos and paintings. It LOOKS like the historic center, but you can tell it's a replica of the original. Yes, the 'new' Lahaina won't be the old Lahaina, but you can't turn back the clock to last Sunday.

Jim

Warsaw did a horrible job rebuilding. It’s one of the ugliest cities in Europe, IMO.


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The first question about how this will shake out is: How much of that town is fee-simple real estate? Because anything which isn't is controlled by the Bishop trust. They will decide what to build, without much (if any) public input. Only 10% of Hawaiian land is fee simple. However, most of the fee-simple real estate tends to be clustered together in giant wedges -- because that's how the original royal land grants worked. I live on such a wedge. Maybe Lahaina is such a place. Maybe not. Maui was never in contention for our retirement, so I haven't investigated real estate there.
That was true at one point, but that has changed and currently it is the reverse. While I do remember when I was very young that most property was leasehold owned by one of the large trusts, particularly KSBE, due to conversions over time the vast majority of real estate now in Hawaii as a whole is now fee simple. Most remaining leasehold property is either commercial or has apartment/condo buildings on it. Single family homes by and large are no longer leasehold.

This article claims it is something like 98% fee simple and 2% leasehold now. While I don't know if that is quite what the reality is, I do know that the most property these days has converted.
 
Warsaw did a horrible job rebuilding. It’s one of the ugliest cities in Europe, IMO.


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Not too bad, if compared to piles of rubble which is what they started rebuilding from. Yes, the skills had slipped in the ensuing centuries.
 
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