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End of club intrawest affiliation

CalGalTraveler

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From your source (Which you didn't seem to read in full since I was summarizing what I assumed you read in all my prior posts after you posted this link since you were quoting it)

"Conflicts of interest occur when a board member’s decisions are influenced by his/her personal interests rather than the interests of the association, which can lead to breaches of their fiduciary duties."
.

Okay this is a start. However despite your voluminous response, the reasoning is quite simple:

How does being employed and paid by the management company (who can fire you at will), feeds your family, pays your mortgage, provides health benefits and determines your future employment NOT a personal interest? ...According the the statement you provided above it looks like a crystal clear breach of fiduciary duties.
 

Jason245

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Okay this is a start. However despite your voluminous response, the reasoning is quite simple:

How does being employed and paid by the management company (who can fire you at will), feeds your family, pays your mortgage, provides health benefits and determines your future employment NOT a personal interest? ...According the the statement you provided above it looks like a crystal clear breach of fiduciary duties.
You are confusing independence with fiduciary duty. You do not have to be independent to fulfill fiduciary duties. It is not a requirement.

Look at the loyalty test again.

Given your response, you either didn't read anything I wrote, don't understand legalese, or are trolling me.

If you don't understand legalese I apologize for the abruptness of my responses, but at this point I feel like I am getting nowhere trying to explain your own source to you.




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CalGalTraveler

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You are confusing independence with fiduciary duty. You do not have to be independent to fulfill fiduciary duties. It is not a requirement.

Look at the loyalty test again.

Given your response, you either didn't read anything I wrote, don't understand legalese, or are trolling me.

If you don't understand legalese I apologize for the abruptness of my responses, but at this point I feel like I am getting nowhere trying to explain your own source to you.


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Let's just agree to disagree. I respect that you have your interpretation of the source material. Please respect that I have mine. (FYI...I am quite comfortable with legalese as I was a VP for a Fortune 500 company for many years who negotiated billion dollar contracts.)

This is not black and white. Differing interpretations are why the U.S. legal system has appeals processes that can reach the Supreme Court.

As a wise lawyer once told me, "The best legal defense you can get (and also the least expensive) is to be squeaky clean." i.e. run your operation above a question of a doubt so you minimize the chances of getting sued.

There are probably more than 100 (perhaps 1000+) small claims courts in the U.S. and countless other courts. All you need is 1 judge to rule this as a conflict of interest and void the contract to set a precedent.

Why would any rational HOA, (and the management company that stands to lose revenue from voided TS contracts) want to run this risk for their association?

I asked a close colleague who sits on a homeowners HOA board "Would you allow an employee of the management company to be involved in discussions and voting pertaining to fees and selection of the management company?" His immediate response: "Absolutely not. That would be a conflict of interest."
 

Jason245

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Let's just agree to disagree. I respect that you have your interpretation of the source material. Please respect that I have mine. (FYI...I am quite comfortable with legalese as I was a VP for a Fortune 500 company for many years who negotiated billion dollar contracts.)

This is not black and white. Differing interpretations are why the U.S. legal system has appeals processes that can reach the Supreme Court.

As a wise lawyer once told me, "The best legal defense you can get (and also the least expensive) is to be squeaky clean." i.e. run your operation above a question of a doubt so you minimize the chances of getting sued.

There are probably more than 100 (perhaps 1000+) small claims courts in the U.S. and countless other courts. All you need is 1 judge to rule this as a conflict of interest and void the contract to set a precedent.

Why would any rational HOA, (and the management company that stands to lose revenue from voided TS contracts) want to run this risk for their association?

I asked a close colleague who sits on a homeowners HOA board "Would you allow an employee of the management company to be involved in discussions and voting pertaining to fees and selection of the management company?" His immediate response: "Absolutely not. That would be a conflict of interest."
You are missing the point again.. ask that person what their answer would be if the management company directly owned 10 to 20 percent of the units in the hoa..

I am a cpa who has consulted on billion dollar deals, been responsible for auditing all kinds of businesses (including real estate ), and spent over a decade doing this.

This would not be a case that could be settled in small claims(fyi).

Private equity groups get board seats of fortune 500 companies all the time simply by buying 5 percent of a company (case in point look at staples last year ) and dictate what management should do (just ask darden).

Once you own a significant portion of an entity your influence significantly increases.

Using hgvc as an example, hilton actually has two separate subs, a management sub and an ownership sub. .. Hilton controls both, on all the boards there is a employee of the ownership sub, and that subs employee always advocates for hilton management company. Since hilton ownership company generally owns over 20 percent of its resorts, their board members always get elected. .

A lot of the law is about form not substance, if you don't believe me, read up on the recent Johnson controls aquisition of tyco and how they are trying to control ownership percentages to ensure they get the right tax treatment while at same time not planning to Change their business.

There is zero cause of action here.. yes you can sue, but your war chest better be bigger than the one dri has (and they are willing to put millions into a fight like that if they have to)..

This is America, litigation is in our blood and fairness is somewhere else..

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alexadeparis

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Anyway, getting back on topic, just exactly WHEN does HGVC plan on letting its members know about this change publicly? I'm pissed that we are hearing this by word of mouth. And the HGVCers on TUG are surely only a small percentage of their membership, meaning 95% of the members are still totally unaware of what the hell is happening.
 

Jason245

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Anyway, getting back on topic, just exactly WHEN does HGVC plan on letting its members know about this change publicly? I'm pissed that we are hearing this by word of mouth. And the HGVCers on TUG are surely only a small percentage of their membership, meaning 95% of the members are still totally unaware of what the hell is happening.
5 days from now is my guess...



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sb2313

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On the club intrawest page, there is a hgvc member that has reported receiving a letter from hgvc that the relationship has been terminated, but I jacket recieved such a letter. Also, the diamond/club intrawest official representative claims negotiations "are ongoing" for future hgvc/club intrawest exchanges, but never addresses the current end date dispite many questions from members. So take that for whatever it's worth.
 

sb2313

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Just spoke with a different hgvc counselor and they have temporally postponed the end of the agreement. So we shall see what happens.
 

presley

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Just spoke with a different hgvc counselor and they have temporally postponed the end of the agreement. So we shall see what happens.

I would be very surprised if Diamond didn't want us visiting CI properties. I could hear the pitch now, "As HGVC owners, you only get to trade into the former CI properties. If you buy a small membership with Diamond, you can visit ALL of our locations!"
 

pedro47

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I would be very surprised if Diamond didn't want us visiting CI properties. I could hear the pitch now, "As HGVC owners, you only get to trade into the former CI properties. If you buy a small membership with Diamond, you can visit ALL of our locations!"

This is one very confusing transaction by all parties involved.
 

MelanieB

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Just spoke with a different hgvc counselor and they have temporally postponed the end of the agreement. So we shall see what happens.

You can never quite tell in these conversations if what they're telling you is accurate. But FWIW, as of today, Club Intrawest properties are still showing as part of the "Resort Collection" at hgvclubprogram.com. So either your information is good, or someone forgot to take them down.

I would be disappointed to lose access to Intrawest. Tremblant is an easy drive from our home; we've stayed there a couple of times and enjoyed it. I was hoping to get to Whistler sometime in the near-ish future too. But I have to say that I find the CI properties to be very, very expensive. Particularly the Canadian properties, with dues in USD and the recent weakness in the Canadian dollar. At Tremblant you can book comparable properties for a similar or even lower cash rate, and enjoy the convenience of no-penalty cancellation and 1 or 2 night stays. I opted out of CI Tremblant this winter for exactly that reason, and booked an on-property hotel instead. I haven't priced out the other Canadian locations, but I suspect the same holds true.
 

alexadeparis

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What is the booking window for these? How far out were we able to go? If they do (or did) decide to terminate affiliation, bookings actually finish running when?
 

tashamen

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You can never quite tell in these conversations if what they're telling you is accurate. But FWIW, as of today, Club Intrawest properties are still showing as part of the "Resort Collection" at hgvclubprogram.com. So either your information is good, or someone forgot to take them down.

On the Club Intrawest side, this message appears today:

"This is to advise that Hilton Grand Vacations Club (HGVC) has chosen to discontinue the affiliation agreement with ExtraOrdinary Escapes with the last reservation for 2016 arrivals being allowed on May 15, 2016. Only Members of ExtraOrdinary Escapes current as of February 16, 2016 will still be able to book reservations into the HGVC locations until May 15, 2016. Eligible Members can make new HGVC reservations by calling into Member Services at 1-800-767-2166. In addition, effective immediately, the ability to convert Club Intrawest Resort Points to Hilton HHonors points has also be discontinued."

Doesn't affect me as I don't belong to ExtraOrdinary Escapes, but I know several other CI memebrs who do and will be bummed about this.
 

sb2313

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I now have a sept 30-October 7 week booked at Sandestin via hgvc, and when I called in now I was told that reservation will still be honored but it appears that no new reservations can be booked via hgvc for CI was what I got out of the conversation. So looks like the feb 15 date was just a few days off from being correct in the end(as of now until the next change of course!).
 
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alexadeparis

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And yet HGVC still hasn't announced anything.
 

Jason245

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On the bright side.. Given current exchange rates, it is probably cheaper to rent Canadian ci resorts than use points

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pedro47

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Of course not.... And I'm sure the next call to a phone rep will yield a somewhat different answer. Fantastic communication all around....

In Canada is it best to use Canadian money or American dollars?
 

sb2313

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In Canada is it best to use Canadian money or American dollars?

Haven't been there since the mid-90s, but I think you use the Canadian dollar. Currently the us dollar has a great exchange rate vs the Canadian dollar so it's a great time to go North!
 

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In Canada is it best to use Canadian money or American dollars?

While even though it isn't legal currency here, (ie. so they do not have to take it) a lot of places will take US$. However, they will seldom give you any exchange on them at retail stores or restaurants. It would be much better to convert US$ to C$ beforehand, especially right now where you get C$1.45 for US$1.00.
 

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Blue Mountain is the closest resort to me, and we went there once a year for a break. I guess that's over with now. The same as Open Season is over with, you can get better rates on Hilton.com and Expedia than the Open Season rates are now in Florida, Las Vegas and Hawaii.

Disappointing News,.... I also bought because Blue Mountain was our closest location,.... Noooooooooo! boohoohoo,...
 
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