Embarc letter from HGVC - Some small news

[CalGalTraveler]

More sales lies. Great lesson to only buy when they can back up a program enhancement in writing.

It seems to be the MO of sales to say, "Buy now it will be more expensive later." IMHO I would rather wait and know the program for certain because I can be perfectly happy with what I already own if it ends up being too expensive, or the program is too convoluted. This not only applies to HGVC/Diamond but to the years-in-the-making MVC Vistana integration program.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

More sales lies. Great lesson to only buy when they can back up a program enhancement in writing.

It seems to be the MO of sales to say, "Buy now it will be more expensive later." IMHO I would rather wait and know the program for certain because I can be perfectly happy with what I already own if it ends up being too expensive, or the program is too convoluted. This not only applies to HGVC/Diamond but to the years-in-the-making MVC Vistana integration program.

In almost every sales contract there is a provision that says that the purchase contract is the total agreement between the parties and that anything that was presented in the sales presentation is not part of the agreement unless it is included in the purchase. So typically the sales contract says:

• the buyer will acquire ### points in yyy Collection/Club/Group. Or it could reference some deeded ownership.
• buyer's rights to use those points will be subject to Club rules, which can be changed or modified at any time.
• In exchange for receiving the points, buyer will pay $$$$.
• Buyer agrees to pay all fees and assessments assessed.

And that pretty much sums up the sales contract. It's about as one-sided as a contract can be. The only thing that is certain is the buyers obligations to pay now and in the future. All usage rights are subject to change and modification.

If people are thinking logically, (which the sales floor is totally constructed to discourage), a buyer would include in the contract all of the key portions of the sales that were material in persuading them to enter into the contract. That's what occurs in most other commercial transactions. Using Diamond as an example, if the sales pitch says that by attaining Gold status, you will get a certain set of perks, then the sales contract should guarantee that you get those perks, not that you are a Gold member, but the Gold member can be changed at any time.

We did some incremental Diamond purchases to get to the Gold level, but I confess that we didn't get those items written into the contract. One thing we did get, though, was when we used Club Combinations to reach Gold level, that was explicitly written into the contract. A few years down the road a sales person told us that the points we received using Club Combinations were "soft" points, and those points would be taken away after five years, after which we would lose our Gold status. So if we wanted to keep our Gold status we needed to buy "hard" points to replace those soft points.

I disputed that, saying that there was nothing mentioned about any five year window. After we got home I confirmed that our sales contract says that the Club Combinations points were used to get us to Gold level, and that the contract makes no mention of any five-year window. That hasn't come up again in any further updates, so I haven't had to trot out the sales agreement. But I remain prepared.

 

[escanoe]

You can rest assured that there will be a hefty price to be paid for such access.
You need to buy a park-to-park ticket, if you want to ride the Hogwarts Express.

.

I suspect you are right, but with the access I have to the DRI resorts I might be interested in through RCI, it would be hard to justify too high of a fee. Of course, putting a high fee on this access might be useful on the sales floor to making an upgrade purchase sound like it is a real bargain. If this comes at a reasonable fee, I will think about it. If not, I don't see it being anything to want bad enough to pay an astronomical price for.

 

[Talent312]

... If this comes at a reasonable fee, I will think about it. If not, I don't see it being anything to want bad enough to pay an astronomical price for.

A few years ago, I attended an update at an Exploria resort where they wanted us to buy a 2nd unit so we'd get access to their new point-system. We declined to pay for something we wouldn't use. However. HGVC's price for access to their system may turn out to be more attractive to DRI owners.
.

 

[karibkeith]

Did DRI even create a collection for Embarc like they have like their other DRI collections? Or was Embarc its own trust before DRI bought Club Intrawest? Or is each Embarc its own independant HOA?

I have a copy of the announcement of the acquisition. There is no mention of a separate collection and it sure sounded like it was the same as other acquisitions implying integration into the Club system. Following a period of no information, the Embarc name came out with no explanation and the resorts appeared in the Diamond directory. However, going to the page for an Embarc resort showed "This resort is only available for reservations by our Embarc® members." Later on, there was mention of an Embarc collection.

I wanted access to their property in Collingwood as it is only a couple of hours drive away. I have driven through this property and do not feel it is anything special so I do not know what is the level of Embarc standards and if Embarc standards are at the HGVC level.. I have never seen any of their other properties.

 

[jmparker98223]

Interesting!
Good riddance to DRI!

To my knowledge Hilton never managed CI. There was an exchange agreement of sorts that was handled by Extraordinary Escapes, a trading company wholly owned by CI.

Diamond point owners never had direct access to CI/Embarc inventory and CI/Embarc owners never had direct access to DRI properties. Nor was there any kind of a gateway other than an exchange via one of the exchange companies. Diamond claimed to have ownership of the CI/Embarc properties but what they really had was the burden of management and the right to hold the trust properties in their portfolio.

It's not clear to me how HGVC can set aside contracts that original CI owners have concerning the use of the properties that are held in trust for the CI owners.

When DRI moved to purchase management of CI it caused a pretty big uproar and the first ever general meeting of owners. There was a CI Owners Group that started up that has been quiescent for a while, however, should any cross booking be attempted it's sure to be met with resistance from CI owners.

The CI/EMBARC properties are superior when compared to many other high end timeshares and the locations are superior as well.

We have used Whistler every year since 2001 when we first bought CI.

The Panorama Resort is well into the Purcell mountain range and has the heli-skiing into the Bugaboos. It's heavenly at the right time of year, at other times such as fall, it's very quiet -bears roam the streets. The Grey Wolf Golf Course at Panorama is one of those fantasy golf courses where you drive from the tee to a mountain top that's been clipped off 300yd.s distant. If you've got a 350yd drive, you'll just have to take a ball on your card.

The Palm Desert is really special and unique. Very high end. Hard to get into even as an owner, as the folks in LA book weekends and the mid-week days are most of what is available. Perhaps the best use lies along the path of booking midweek, checking out on Friday and checking in some other Palm Spring area resort. We've done that and the week long stay elsewhere is sort of anticlimactic. Plan your activities accordingly.

Zihuantanejo is on a scale of 1 to 10, an 11.

Haven't been to Blue Mountain, Tremblant or San Destin

 

[GT75]

To my knowledge Hilton never managed CI.

This is correct. HGVC and CI had an exchange agreement between the two companies prior to CI being purchased by Diamond.

Diamond point owners never had direct access to CI/Embarc inventory and CI/Embarc owners never had direct access to DRI properties. Nor was there any kind of a gateway other than an exchange via one of the exchange companies. Diamond claimed to have ownership of the CI/Embarc properties but what they really had was the burden of management and the right to hold the trust properties in their portfolio.

You obviously would know but that is what we had heard also. I think that I did hear that Diamond wanted to integrate CI with Diamond but CI members of course didn’t agree to that.

It's not clear to me how HGVC can set aside contracts that original CI owners have concerning the use of the properties that are held in trust for the CI owners.

On the HGVC side, we haven’t heard any news concerning this rebranding of CI. The only news is via the communications on CI/Embarc side. Past communications from HGV with former DRI & CI/Embarc members and HGVC has been consistent with the following statement:

​

Finally, rebranding of Embarc properties will be a multi-year, phased effort. As resorts are rebranded, we will share existing updates with you along the way. We would like to emphasize that access to your timeshare will remain the same and you will receive the same level of service you’ve come to enjoy.​

​

​

So, right now I view this as a name change only.

 

[echino]

Embarc resorts are great. I stayed in Whistler, Panorama and Palm Desert, all via II. Very impressed.

 

[Talent312]

HGVC is likely to offer owners voluntary membership in HGVC, as they do SW Florida
owners. Those who join HGVC will give the club access to the resort.

Even if they don't take over management, HGVC may still list them as "affiliates"
-- bookable becuz some owners participate in the club.
..

 

[dayooper]

HGVC is likely to offer owners voluntary membership in HGVC, as they do SW Florida
owners. Those who join HGVC will give access the club access to the resort.

Even if they don't take over management, HGVC may still list them as "affiliates"
-- bookable becuz some owners participate in the club.
..

This is my thought. While it could be in name only like @GT75 says, I think there will be some sort of crossover. I go back to what Mark Wang said this summer, owners won’t lose their purchased rights. If any of us don’t want to play, we won’t have to. Same goes for DRI owners.