DVC to affiliate with RCI! [MERGED]

[bnoble]

I am about to put in a request for Jan/Feb for a DVC resort. Anyone tried recently? Thoughts on availability?

You probably have a decent shot still, especially if you are not picky about which resort, and could accept a 1BR. If you could accept a studio and aren't picky, I'd say you've got a very good shot.

 

[rsackett]

We were looking to go to Disney (II owners) early next year, and I have always been able to trade in "last minute" for some great on-site Disney deals. Now that I see the RCI change, I am about to put in a request for Jan/Feb for a DVC resort. Anyone tried recently? Thoughts on availability?

Can you put in a request for January? I thought you could not put in requests during FlexChange???

I have seen DVC stuidos and 1 bedrooms sitting in inventory several times this week.

Ray

 

[lilybean]

Can you put in a request for January? I thought you could not put in requests during FlexChange???

I have seen DVC stuidos and 1 bedrooms sitting in inventory several times this week.

Ray

Great point! I always forget about that...thanks for the reminder! I will keep checking -- I saw a studio for late Feb in there recently, but that's about it...

 

[refumpcpa]

What happens to weeks still in II after 12/31

If there are any weeks left in II inventory after 12/31, will those weeks revert back to Disney or will Disney honor those trades since they were deposited into II before 12/31?

Also, if Disney owners still trade out prior to 12/31, will any more weeks come into II inventory.

 

[timeos2]

Thats all folks

If there are any weeks left in II inventory after 12/31, will those weeks revert back to Disney or will Disney honor those trades since they were deposited into II before 12/31?

Also, if Disney owners still trade out prior to 12/31, will any more weeks come into II inventory.

DVC is no longer allowing new deposits to II. They already have everything they will get for at least the next ten years (term of the new exclusive RCI affiliation).

 

[gmarine]

DVC is no longer allowing new deposits to II. They already have everything they will get for at least the next ten years (term of the new exclusive RCI affiliation).

According to the DVC announcment members may confirm exchanges through Dec 31. Yesterday and again today II had availability at several DVC resorts.

 

[dioxide45]

According to the DVC announcment members may confirm exchanges through Dec 31. Yesterday and again today II had availability at several DVC resorts.

This is if you currently have points on deposit with II or there is a resort available for instant exchange. You can't put deposit new points to request a search is what I think John was getting at.

 

[Miss Marty]

Disney Vacation Club

The Disney Difference is what sets Disney Vacation Club (DVC) apart
It's the heritage, tradition and values that began with Walt himself.

Disney Vacation Club membership is based on a "vacation point" system.
As a DVC Member - I feel that - Interval International II and RCI owners
should only be allowed to - exchange in - trade in - once every year.

When you become a Disney Vacation Club Member, you're buying
a real estate interest in an exceptional Disney Vacation Club. Resort

http://www.grouprci.com/media_center/pr/show_release.cfm?id=190

 

[tombo]

When you become a Disney Vacation Club Member, you're buying
a real estate interest in an exceptional Disney Vacation Club. Resort

http://www.grouprci.com/media_center/pr/show_release.cfm?id=190

When you pay your money to DVC you become a RTU (rent to use) member. You never did and never will own any real estate or interest in any property that DISNEY OWNS. You are only renting a week (actually renting points) each year from Disney for a set number of years, then after your rental lease is up you are left with nothing. Not only don't you own anything, you don't have a vote on management, maintenance fees, or which exchange company Disney will use because renters have no ownership rights. Notice how Disney didn't take a vote or even a survey from members before changing to RCI from II. The landlord (Disney) has deemed RCI is better for them, so all the loyal members of the tragic kingdom club must capitulate to the mouse monarchy's wishes. Isn't this why we threw the tea off of the cruise ship when it docked in Boston Harbor? DVC is vacation without representation.

 

[Carl D]

I know many love Disney, but many of us can't stand Disney. For those of us who think Disney is the most boring place in the world, we simply want a nice resort with good sized rooms and nice amenities. I want a good base location to go to Sea World, Universal, Islands of Adventure and Busch Gardens. I don't care about a theme atmosphere. If you gave me a free week in the best DVC resort with the condition that I had to go to a Disney theme park for 5 days in a row, I would not take that offer.

Please feel free to keep your wonderful DVC weeks. Please don't deposit them for the inferior resorts that RCI offers. Unfortunatelly you will be depositing a week I don't want to trade for at Disney,which will probably have high trading power, allowing you to exchange for a really good RCI week I do want. I wish DVC would go back to II and take their whining, RCI resort bashing renters (RTU= rent to use) with them. The big losers in this aren't the DVC owners (who only deposit their weeks if they want to), it's the RCI owners who never want to go to Disney again in their life but will lose really great trades to many new DVC RCI members.

What is there for RCI members to get excited about? It's not like we got access to Marriott trades! We got Disney and DVC. Big deal. There are already more high quality resorts in Orlando through RCI than you will ever stay in (without access to DVC). DVC owners, please call DVC and complain. Hopefully it will get you back to II and we will all be happy.

Is it all bout you, or do the other thousands of RCI Members who do enjoy Disney/DVC count for anything? I'm not sure, but it kind of sounds like you think RCI should be structured around your desires, and the heck with the other Members.
If I'm reading this correctly, you don't want any resorts to affiliate with RCI that have a better trade power than yours, unless you want to visit that resort... which may be difficult since the trade power is higher??

Besides, as other posters have said- This will free up some weeks that interest you since others will be trying for DVC.

Most DVC members will join RCI in case they want to exchange. They will then have access to last calls and extra vacations reducing our supply while bringing little to the table. When they exchange their points, they will probably have one of the highest trading values of any resort in RCI, and they are getting the high trade value by depositing an ORLANDO week. A high quality resort in Orlando is the easiest trade to get in RCI. That is good for DVC members, and not much help to RCI members (we could have stayed at a nice place in Orlando without them).

I don't know the details, but if it's the same as II, DVC will have a corporate membership where Members have no access to last calls/extra vacations.

Again, it's all about you. DVC will bring a lot to the table for many people, although you are not one of them.

When you pay your money to DVC you become a RTU (rent to use) member. You never did and never will own any real estate or interest in any property that DISNEY OWNS. You are only renting a week (actually renting points) each year from Disney for a set number of years, then after your rental lease is up you are left with nothing. Not only don't you own anything, you don't have a vote on management, maintenance fees, or which exchange company Disney will use because renters have no ownership rights.

Yikes... You make this sound like it's a negative. In reality, the vast majority think of this as a major plus. Sometime I think people go on this "renter rant" because they are envious we will not have to saddle our heirs with a piece of junk, broken down resort loaded with fees and special assessments.
Yes, I think that's a very large plus.

Having Disney as the management company is another large plus.
I mean, let's weigh the options....
1) Disney, a world class proven high quality outfit, with years of resort and guest relation satisfaction.
---OR---
2) A few people voted in by members who may or may not know a thing about running a resort. They may try to skimp and save every buck, and slowly the resorts look like crap.

Example I
I have some points at the Disney Vero Beach Resort. In 2004, two hurricanes hit the resort, pretty much a direct hit. Both times the resort closed for repairs. The resort was closed for weeks, with many Disney personel working round the clock to get the resort opened.
-- Special assessment?? NO.
After the resort opened, the second hurricane hit. Same situation as above, and again NO special asessment.

Example II
Now, I'm NOT saying there is anything wrong with Cypress Point, but let's look at the different management styles...
A few years ago both resorts added pool slides.
-- Look at the slide CP put up at their Volcano Pool. (Scroll 5 pictures down.)
-- Look at the slide Disney Old Key West put up at their Pool.



Again, that in NO WAY is a dig on CP management, but just an example of different management styles.
I understand full well timeos2 has done a nice job getting his resort on the right track.

And as a foot note.. If there are enough votes, DVC Members can fire DVC as the managing entity.

 

[timeos2]

Example I
I have some points at the Disney Vero Beach Resort. In 2004, two hurricanes hit the resort, pretty much a direct hit. Both times the resort closed for repairs. The resort was closed for weeks, with many Disney personel working round the clock to get the resort opened.
-- Special assessment?? NO.
After the resort opened, the second hurricane hit. Same situation as above, and again NO special asessment.

What that would tell me is Disney is so overcharging for fees that even in a near disaster they have cash on hand to do the work! Nice in one way, as you point out there is no special assessment, but those type of major issues usually only happen once or twice in the life of a resort. Collecting at a rate to cover that as the base amount helps lead to the super high annual fees DVC charges. In other words - you are paying WAY too much on an ongoing basis.

Where is the annual audit/ financial report to the renters? What type of management fees are being paid? What type of cash balance on hand? What are the reserves? Owning in an information vacuum is a risky way to do things and is a very costly approach.

Example II
Now, I'm NOT saying there is anything wrong with Cypress Point, but let's look at the different management styles...
A few years ago both resorts added pool slides.
-- Look at the slide CP put up at their Volcano Pool. (Scroll 5 pictures down.)
-- Look at the slide Disney Old Key West put up at their Pool.



Again, that in NO WAY is a dig on CP management, but just an example of different management styles.
I understand full well timeos2 has done a nice job getting his resort on the right track.

And as a foot note.. If there are enough votes, DVC Members can fire DVC as the managing entity.

This one is a good point - to a degree. The slide you showed for DVC is impressive but it wasn't built by Disney resort management - but Disney the Developer. Using CP as the example the original developer put in the signature Volcano but no slides of any type. When the Association decided to install a slide they actually looked at a style to compliment the theme -a "mini-volcano" slide - but the pool would have required reconstruction to meet minimum depth requirements and to get a County permit. The owner Board decided the cost/benefit to that level of major expenditure just didn't meet sound fiscal guidelines, so a more utilitarian model that meets the permit requirement of the original pool was purchased. It was all decided by the very owners who pay for it - not simply decreed by those who sell the RTU product but paid for by the RTU user fees.

Based on the amount of happy, splashing use those basic slides see each day I guess the users don't much care if its a castle or a tube.

Nothing at all wrong with DVC as long as you are comfortable with the heavy price and no control. Some people do like it that way and so it succeeds. By the way, how would the property renters ever remove DVC as management? They have no voting rights. As mentioned above did they get a say in the change this thread is all about? Did they even get told prior to it being a done deal? Of course not. It is indeed a Magic Kingdom where the buyers pay but have no say.

 

[tombo]

Is it all bout you, or do the other thousands of RCI Members who do enjoy Disney/DVC count for anything? I'm not sure, but it kind of sounds like you think RCI should be structured around your desires, and the heck with the other Members.

If you peruse the first 3 or 4 pages of this thread you will see almost nothing but DVC members complaining about all of the low quality resorts in RCI. They were so mad to be stuck with these low quality exchanges available through RCI. Several of us were explaining why RCI has been good to us and that other than losing Marriott DVC owners would have as many high quality resorts and a lot more exchange options than they used to in II. They responded with more crticism of RCI resorts. I finally got sick of hearing about the tragedy it is to rent high quality DVC points and to have to exchange into lowly RCI resorts.

After having RCI resorts (which we own) bashed long enough, I felt it was time to explain that many RCI members (not just myself) didn't feel that we were getting anything worthwhile by adding DVC to RCI. All about me, heck most of this thread was all about the poor DVC owners who would only be able to exchange into slums starting in January. They got ripped off and there were hardly any RCI resorts that they would even consider staying in. The arrogance of many DVC renter's posts was insulting to any who own an RCI resort.

I felt that the fact that RCI isn't all about DVC needed to be made also. It has existed for a long time without DVC and we have made many great exchanges without access to DVC's limited number of resorts. Every RCI member isn't salivating over the chance to exchange for DVC. Some DVC renters feel like RCI got gold while they got lead. I never plan to go to Disney again in my life and numerous other TUGGERS feel the same way. DVC renters now get access to the world through RCI, we get another Orlando, and DVC feels they got screwed. We already have more access to Orlando than most of us will ever use (without DVC). As I said previously, for any DVC renter who doesn't think RCI is worth belonging to, please DON"T JOIN! DVC doesn't make you join, they simply give you the option. For every DVC member that is mad to be associated with RCI, there are at least as many RCI members that wish you weren't in RCI either. The difference is that you don't have to join RCI, we have to let you join whether we ever want to exchange for DVC or not.

 

[AwayWeGo]

Arrogance, Shmairygance.

The arrogance of many DVC renter's posts was insulting to any who own an RCI resort.

You call it arrogance & I call it pride of ownership -- or, more accurately, RTUership (but that's just a tiny quibble).

As a non-DVC person who belongs to RCI, I do not take any of this as an insult. I simply figure that the people who paid a pretty penny for DVC did so on their understanding that DVC is The Best & The Most Special. Anything that appears to diminish that in the slightest is unlikely to sit well with them. And that's not even suggesting that DVC isn't The Best & The Most Special. For all I know it may well be.

Where the DVC folks who feel heartbroken over the switch to RCI may be a teeny-tiny bit off the mark is in the notion that I-I is somehow head & shoulders superior to RCI.

Without going near any claim that RCI Can Do No Wrong (an idea I reject), I think it's fair to say that RCI has possibly a better overall quality mix of timeshares than I-I. I'm basing that only on what I've read about I-I right here on TUG-BBS; my actual timeshare-exchange experience, limited as it is, is strictly RCI. (So it goes.)

Putting it another way, the picture I get is that I-I has some crown jewels & some OK timeshares & lots of dogs & cats.

RCI by contrast has a few crown jewels, plenty of semi-jewels, lots & lots of OK timeshares, & its own complement of dogs & cats.

I won't even get into the customer service issues, which I-I & RCI members alike both gripe about right here on TUG-BBS.

As to concern over DVC's opening its doors to the great unwashed RCI throng via DVC's recent exchange company switch, only time well tell whether that will be much of a problem for DVC owners & if so, how bad a problem.

Meanwhile, some RCI members are so turned off by the timeshares that treat exchange guests as 2nd class citz. (e.g., DVC & Manhattan Club, which charge exchange guests extra fees that owners don't pay), that they won't even be looking for DVC availability, much less trying to trade in.

In any case, I'm hoping it all shakes out ultimately so that nobody's DVC experience is diminished in any way. For what the high-end timeshare owners (& RTUers) have to shell out for that status, nobody should rain on their parade.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[icydog]

I disagree with your analysis

If you peruse the first 3 or 4 pages of this thread you will see almost nothing but DVC members complaining about all of the low quality resorts in RCI. They were so mad to be stuck with these low quality exchanges available through RCI. Several of us were explaining why RCI has been good to us and that other than losing Marriott DVC owners would have as many high quality resorts and a lot more exchange options than they used to in II. They responded with more crticism of RCI resorts. I finally got sick of hearing about the tragedy it is to rent high quality DVC points and to have to exchange into lowly RCI resorts.

After having RCI resorts (which we own) bashed long enough, I felt it was time to explain that many RCI members (not just myself) didn't feel that we were getting anything worthwhile by adding DVC to RCI. All about me, heck most of this thread was all about the poor DVC owners who would only be able to exchange into slums starting in January. They got ripped off and there were hardly any RCI resorts that they would even consider staying in. The arrogance of many DVC renter's posts was insulting to any who own an RCI resort.

I felt that the fact that RCI isn't all about DVC needed to be made also. It has existed for a long time without DVC and we have made many great exchanges without access to DVC's limited number of resorts. Every RCI member isn't salivating over the chance to exchange for DVC. Some DVC renters feel like RCI got gold while they got lead. I never plan to go to Disney again in my life and numerous other TUGGERS feel the same way. DVC renters now get access to the world through RCI, we get another Orlando, and DVC feels they got screwed. We already have more access to Orlando than most of us will ever use (without DVC). As I said previously, for any DVC renter who doesn't think RCI is worth belonging to, please DON"T JOIN! DVC doesn't make you join, they simply give you the option. For every DVC member that is mad to be associated with RCI, there are at least as many RCI members that wish you weren't in RCI either. The difference is that you don't have to join RCI, we have to let you join whether we ever want to exchange for DVC or not.

DVC owners are not renters. We are owners. We have a deed which can be transferred, willed or sold.. Renters are found in Vacation Clubs like Royal Holiday. There's no deed there. I know, I own some of their resorts.

Also, I would bet you that you are in a tiny minority when you say that RCI members will not want to trade into DVC. The DVC resorts at Walt Disney World allow RCI members a myriad of activities from which to choose.

Saying DVC is just another Orlando Resort chain grossly underestimates the value of owning at DVC.. I cannot think of any place on earth that affords their owners such options. There is everything there from theme parks, to campgrounds, to horseback riding, to canoeing, to parasailing, to swimming with dolphins, to small watercraft, to tea with princesses, to dinner with Mickey Mouse, to lunch with Winnie the Pooh, to a wonderful dining plan, to first class dining options. And don't forget the free transportation to your resort and free transportation around the resort so you don't need to rent a car or shop for groceries.

We have lakes, rivers, lazy river pools, roller coaster water slides (and many other kinds of water slides too) the largest sandy bottomed pool in the world, aquariums, log flumes, beaches, fountains.. a myriad of places to cool off in.

We have all types of restaurants and clubs. We have our own shopping area. We have our own sports complex.

Other DVC owners can add to the list. I'll bet there will be an gigantic influx of RCI members requesting exchanges into DVC. Mark my words. You'll see I'm right!!

 

[icydog]

You call it arrogance & I call it pride of ownership -- or, more accurately, RTUership (but that's just a tiny quibble).

As a non-DVC person who belongs to RCI, I do not take any of this as an insult. I simply figure that the people who paid a pretty penny for DVC did so on their understanding that DVC is The Best & The Most Special. Anything that appears to diminish that in the slightest is unlikely to sit well with them. And that's not even suggesting that DVC isn't The Best & The Most Special. For all I know it may well be.

Where the DVC folks who feel heartbroken over the switch to RCI may be a teeny-tiny bit off the mark is in the notion that I-I is somehow head & shoulders superior to RCI.

Without going near any claim that RCI Can Do No Wrong (an idea I reject), I think it's fair to say that RCI has possibly a better overall quality mix of timeshares than I-I. I'm basing that only on what I've read about I-I right here on TUG-BBS; my actual timeshare-exchange experience, limited as it is, is strictly RCI. (So it goes.)

Putting it another way, the picture I get is that I-I has some crown jewels & some OK timeshares & lots of dogs & cats.

RCI by contrast has a few crown jewels, plenty of semi-jewels, lots & lots of OK timeshares, & its own complement of dogs & cats.

I won't even get into the customer service issues, which I-I & RCI members alike both gripe about right here on TUG-BBS.

As to concern over DVC's opening its doors to the great unwashed RCI throng via DVC's recent exchange company switch, only time well tell whether that will be much of a problem for DVC owners & if so, how bad a problem.

Meanwhile, some RCI members are so turned off by the timeshares that treat exchange guests as 2nd class citz. (e.g., DVC & Manhattan Club, which charge exchange guests extra fees that owners don't pay), that they won't even be looking for DVC availability, much less trying to trade in.

In any case, I'm hoping it all shakes out ultimately so that nobody's DVC experience is diminished in any way. For what the high-end timeshare owners (& RTUers) have to shell out for that status, nobody should rain on their parade.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

This was a very nice post, and accurate too. Thanks

 

[timeos2]

What can you do that anyone else can't? Nothing. But you pay more

DVC owners are not renters. We are owners. We have a deed which can be transferred, willed or sold.. Renters are found in Vacation Clubs like Royal Holiday. There's no deed there. I know, I own some of their resorts.

Deeded or not when there is nothing you own or control except the obligation to pay whatever fees they want to charge up to the last year when the landlord takes it back with $0 to you after XX years that is much closer to a lease/rental than a sale. Twist it all you want , the "deed" only says you owe for XX years just as a lease would.

Saying DVC is just another Orlando Resort chain grossly underestimates the value of owning at DVC.. I cannot think of any place on earth that affords their owners such options. There is everything there from theme parks, to campgrounds, to horseback riding, to canoeing, to parasailing, to swimming with dolphins, to small watercraft, to tea with princesses, to dinner with Mickey Mouse, to lunch with Winnie the Pooh, to a wonderful dining plan, to first class dining options. And don't forget the free transportation to your resort and free transportation around the resort so you don't need to rent a car or shop for groceries.

We have lakes, rivers, lazy river pools, roller coaster water slides (and many other kinds of water slides too) the largest sandy bottomed pool in the world, aquariums, log flumes, beaches, fountains.. a myriad of places to cool off in.

We have all types of restaurants and clubs. We have our own shopping area. We have our own sports complex.

None of which is unique or unavailable to anyone who wants to buy in with a ticket or just go onsite. Any ticket - even expired - and you can ride the transportation. The restaurants, stores, pools (if you pay to rent a room) etc all open to the public. And at a MUCH lower cost then a DVC long term lease. The DVC members get nothing but a smaller than most timeshare unit and some fancy lobby's. If you enjoy it and want to pay the steep fare, great. But thinking it is unique or somehow super special is all marketing hype and few do that better than Disney & Microsoft. Two of the greediest "user oriented" companies that have ever existed. At least Disney can be fun and hasn't been convicted of monopolistic practices.

As for trading in - never. Not interested in the slightest. Don't need to be treated as an interloper who gets nicked for $95 that the long term renter who made the deposit already paid. And if any DVC member goes to another resort on a trade they should automatically be charged a $95 penalty fee as well. Fair is fair. Maybe RCI can set that up. Even the long term lease holders know that fee is wrong but, of course, they have no right to change it. After all they only rent for XX years. DVC has 100% control as most landlords do. After all - THEY own it.

 

[bnoble]

Saying DVC is just another Orlando Resort chain grossly underestimates the value of owning at DVC.

But, I think it is important to remember that the park-affiliated resorts serve a highly-targeted market. We can argue about how big the market is. But, it's clear that if you are visiting "Disney", then DVC offers something truly unique that no other resort system can match at any price. On the other hand, for those visiting "Orlando," or "Florida", then there are many Orlando-area resorts which those folks might consider superior. The better non-Disney resorts typically have units that are larger, better appionted, and more luxurious than the Disney resorts. Many of those resorts also have amenities and activity slates that surpass the DVC resorts themselves. The resorts plus the theme parks and other gated attractions? No. But, the resorts, considered solely on their own merits? Yes.

In fact, this leads to an interesting discussion I've been having over on DIS about the direction DVC seems to be taking. Only a few years ago, DVC was marketed almost entirely at the Disney fan---folks who wanted to vacation every year with Mickey. If you look at the advertising material now though---particualrly the Travel Channel infomercial from a several months back---all that pixie dust is almost an afterthought.

If you read between the lines, it appears that The Powers That Be at DVC have come to the same conclusion that many of us have: that, ultimately, the drawing power of pixie dust is limited, and to continue to grow at their current pace, DVC is going to have to figure out how to market to people who don't plan to come visit "Disney" every year. It's a hard thing to do to change your brand perception---they had to invent a whole new movie studio to market films targeted at teens and adults.

 

[tombo]

As for trading in - never. Not interested in the slightest. Don't need to be treated as an interloper who gets nicked for $95 that the long term renter who made the deposit already paid. And if any DVC member goes to another resort on a trade they should automatically be charged a $95 penalty fee as well. Fair is fair. Maybe RCI can set that up.

I agree. If RCI members have to pay an additional $95 to use what the DVC owners deposit, then the DVC owners whould have to pay that same extra $95 to use whatever they exchange for.

 

[AwayWeGo]

You Are Correct, Sir.

If RCI members have to pay an additional $95 to use what the DVC owners deposit, then the DVC owners whould have to pay that same extra $95 to use whatever they exchange for.

Absolutely right.

It's never going to happen, but that's another story.

The people at DVC act as though they are unclear on the concept of Timeshare Exchange, which, properly understood, means that the exchanger gets exactly what the the owner deposits.

Otherwise, (a) it's not truly an exchange & (b) the exchange guests are treated as 2nd class citz.

The concept is not that hard to grasp, so I conclude therefore that DVC imposes the nuisance fees on exchange guests to make a point about DVC's class-apart superiority (plus $95 per time in good green money), rather than because DVC doesn't know any better.

Putting it more crudely, DVC does it for the same reason a dog licks itself -- because it can.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[calgarygary]

What a thread/news to come back to after vacation. I had SVN deposit a non Orlando week into II just so I could trade into DVC - oh well, and so it goes (borrowed a line).

We love Disney and have stayed onsite and offsite but could never justify the cost of buying DVC. With no great savings through the DVC resale market, the savings of owning resale at Vistana Villages for a family of 6 could easily buy you a second vacation every year. Yeh, if you are going to visit the mouse it's nice to stay with him, but not that nice.

 

[Carl D]

Deeded or not when there is nothing you own or control except the obligation to pay whatever fees they want to charge up to the last year when the landlord takes it back with $0 to you after XX years that is much closer to a lease/rental than a sale. Twist it all you want , the "deed" only says you owe for XX years just as a lease would.

Partially correct, but completely misleading.

First, the incorrect part.. DVC can NOT charge you whatever fees they want. There is a cap on fee increases, and in order to go beyond the cap the Members must approve it.

Now granted, we do not own DVC "in perpetuity". That said, we are not true renters either. Try renting a car from Avis, then selling it.
My guess is that will clear up the confusion.

Renting gives the impression that we pay a new rental price every year. Of course that's not true, as we pay one purchase price. We don't pay a new rental fee every visit that will rise with inflation over the years.

Let's look at a comparison-
-- We pay an initial purchase price... So do you.
-- We pay an annual fee... So do you.
-- Our timeshare will be worth $0 in the year 2057... So will yours (probably). Heck, many are worth $0 in 2008.
-- We can sell or will our timeshare... So can you.
-- We get a lifetime of great vacation accommodations... So do you.
-- We get a great value for the dollars spent... So do you. (That of course is personal preference.)

I could continue, but I think you get the point...
From a practical standpoint, there is no difference between RTU and owning in perpetuity.

None of which is unique or unavailable to anyone who wants to buy in with a ticket or just go onsite. Any ticket - even expired - and you can ride the transportation.

I used to agree with you about this, but there is some discussion that the policy has changed. From a practical matter, bus drivers are not checking IDs..

The restaurants, stores, pools (if you pay to rent a room) etc all open to the public. And at a MUCH lower cost then a DVC long term lease. The DVC members get nothing but a smaller than most timeshare unit and some fancy lobby's.

And exotic animals right off your balcony, and a view of the Magic Kingdom, and a three minute walk to Epcot...

If you enjoy it and want to pay the steep fare, great. But thinking it is unique or somehow super special is all marketing hype...

Well, it certainly IS unique and special. As I said above.. What other Orlando timeshare overlooks giraffes from your balcony? What other ts is on Disney property? That is unique, by definition.

 

[bnoble]

From a practical standpoint, there is no difference between RTU and owning in perpetuity.

Well, except that one ends and the other doesn't. That sounds "different" to me. Not necessarily "better" or "worse", but certainly different.

In my opinion, DVD's "deeded leasehold" idea was a stroke of genius. It allows sales to sidestep the (perhaps spurious) "no deed" objection, while still allowing Disney to retain complete and utter control over RCID. Pure brilliance.

 

[Carl D]

What that would tell me is Disney is so overcharging for fees that even in a near disaster they have cash on hand to do the work! Nice in one way, as you point out there is no special assessment, but those type of major issues usually only happen once or twice in the life of a resort. Collecting at a rate to cover that as the base amount helps lead to the super high annual fees DVC charges. In other words - you are paying WAY too much on an ongoing basis.

I believe our annual fees are commensurate with services provided.
I should add that when the Vero Beach Resort reopened, it was in pristine condition. Not a flower out of place.

Personally, I am very happy with the way DVC budgets our dollars. *IF* my fees were a few pennies/pt higher because they budget for tragedy, I think that's an excellent management decision.

Where is the annual audit/ financial report to the renters? What type of management fees are being paid? What type of cash balance on hand? What are the reserves? Owning in an information vacuum is a risky way to do things and is a very costly approach.

Our annual budget spells this out, although probably not in the detail you are looking for.

This one is a good point - to a degree. The slide you showed for DVC is impressive but it wasn't built by Disney resort management - but Disney the Developer. Using CP as the example the original developer put in the signature Volcano but no slides of any type.

Yes, and this goes to the heart of my point.
I understand that DVC, DVD, and other divisions of Disney are all individual entities. That said, they all fall under the Walt Disney Company umbrella, and that's where the strength of DVC is derived from. I have no idea if DVC/DVD would have been successful had it been outsourced without backing from the WDC.
I know the different entities have different operating budgets, but I would bet dollars to donuts that if DVC needed capital funding, the WDC would be there to help. After all... Where do you think DVC profits wind up?

Don't forget that DVC annual fees pay for upkeep, and lifeguards associated with the slide. (I'm assuming it's like the other resorts, where there is a lifeguard on duty when the slide is operational.)

Based on the amount of happy, splashing use those basic slides see each day I guess the users don't much care if its a castle or a tube.

Until you put the two next to each other and see which the kids choose, there is no way to know this.

By the way, how would the property renters ever remove DVC as management? They have no voting rights.

I really don't know how it works, but I do know there is a provision in the POS for voting in a different management company.

 

[Carl D]

Well, except that one ends and the other doesn't. That sounds "different" to me. Not necessarily "better" or "worse", but certainly different.

True, but as I said, we will both have a lifetime of vacation accommodations. From a practical standpoint that is the same thing.

The debate is really about what happens to the ts after we are gone. I would rather not saddle my heirs with a 50 year old decrepit resort they may not want, plus stick them with high fees.
Others may have a different opinion.

 

[luvsvacation22]

As a HGVC owner, I am sort of annoyed with y'all who think that all of us who are linked to RCI are a bunch of country bumpkins and only stay in converted motels!

I was rereading through this thread and once again when I read your post again, it maded me laugh!:hysterical: country bumpkins ....funny!