DVC to affiliate with RCI! [MERGED]

[Carl D]

I agree, and I feel really bad about this message repeated over and over by some DVC owners on TUG and the DIS boards in recent days. There has been a tone of snobbery way beyond what I had expected in these discussions about RCI, with some comments downright rude to RCI resort owners in general. But the sweeping overstatement works the other way too -- not all DVC owners believe what they have is gold or that all RCI resorts are unacceptable. I don't, and I hope/believe there are others like me but they just don't bother to join these discussions.

On another note, I do have to ask this: Why do threads on TUG about DVC -- no matter the topic in the original post -- always end up being a huge debate about the pros and cons of DVC, whether it is "worth it" from eyes of DVC fans and critics, etc.? This has been the case for as long as I remember, and I started reading/posting on TUG BBS about eight years ago. It is one thing to state a factual criticism and move on; it is another to post repeatedly over and over, saying the same things, to convince DVC owners that they are wrong or foolish. Clearly DVC owners find value in the ownership to make the higher ownership costs worthwhile, even if the the ownership is a long term RTU, the furnishings are not as luxurious than those in some other timeshares or the units of most resorts are not as large as many off-site timeshares. We have owned HGVC (several), Marriott (several), and other timeshares over the years. When we downsized we sold off all our Marriotts (partly because of the outrageous annual m/f increases -- way higher than what we've experience on the DVC side) and HGVCs, kept our best no-brand RCI trader, and increased our DVC holdings. Those who don't find the other stuff DVC offers to be worth the price don't own DVC, and those who do value the extras do. There isn't a right or wrong here -- just different preferences -- yet each time posts in these threads start to sound like challenges about who is right and wrong on the value of DVC. Is this truly necessary?

I think you will find the offenses are one sided. For the most part, DVC Members are on the defensive.

I have never seen an attack on a TUG Member for NOT being a DVC Member.

 

[timeos2]

No one was inside but we have the chaeck that seemed to prove it

I don't know if this is right or wrong, but it has been disputed by reputable people here on TUG... I believe it was Dean.
Whoever it was did have a factual basis for their view.

Well, mine was from personal experience (as most of my posts tend to be). In oe of my last years of DVC ownership we had a situation that involved RCI and a trade into DVC. When we arrived we were told we owed the $95 penalty (of course they didn't call it that and danced around the reason for it - the bottom line was it was to pay for transportation. Pointing out that it was FREE to anyone didn't bring anything but a shoulder shrug in reply).

So to avoid anymore of a scene we reluctantly paid the fee BUT immediately contacted RCI and complained. They were shocked - basically told us "it cannot be done - it's in our agreement". They even gave us a fax copy of the exact wording prohibiting such fees.

About three weeks later we got a check for $95 from DVC - no apology or explanation just a check with REFUND as the reason. Not too long after that we heard about the change to II, the permanent penalty fee and we fortunately sold our rental agreement to another buyer. How many others got the mysterious refund I can't say but I'll bet it was more than a few if they complained. It was spelled out in black and white in an agreement they (and every other RCI resort at that time) signed that it wasn't allowed. A true Wastegate move as Alan stated. Below DVC I would have hoped but that was just another sign that they were out for money first and last.

So I cannot prove it was a catalyst but the timing sure seems right. As is the change back now that RCI has compromised what few principals they had left to allow it. Buyer beware indeed.

 

[Carl D]

It would take a ton of Christmas ornaments and several "wild" parties to make up for the difference in cost that you paid for your DVC & those folks who bought into Starwood, Marriott, Hilton, etc. on the resale market. Nice perks but you pay dearly for them - not even close to free.

Nah... Only speaking for myself, but the perks have very little to do with my affection for DVC.

It's the theming, and to a lessor extent being all encompassed by Disney. (This includes the customer service.)
I love the detailed theming, and being transported to another place.. If people here have never visited the Wilderness Lodge or the Animal Kingdom, you may not understand what I'm saying.
For those that have,,, well,,, you understand.

 

[AwayWeGo]

Who Knew ?

First, you have a conflict of interest seeing as though you are HOA President of a locally competing resort.

Whoa !

I've been an owner (resale) at various Cypress Pointe phases since 2002 & never once had any idea during any of the years since that any form of timeshare competition was going on.

You know -- no scoreboards, no team cheers, no uniforms, no league standings, no won-lost records, none of that stuff.

Live & learn, eh ?

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[calgarygary]

Nah... Only speaking for myself, but the perks have very little to do with my affection for DVC.

It's the theming, and to a lessor extent being all encompassed by Disney. (This includes the customer service.)
I love the detailed theming, and being transported to another place.. If people here have never visited the Wilderness Lodge or the Animal Kingdom, you may not understand what I'm saying.
For those that have,,, well,,, you understand.

We have stayed at AKL twice but not the villas, and WL is only an imitation of the real thing that we live so close to. I do understand exactly where you are coming from, but as much as I love AKL, I just do not think it is worth the cost. I was just correcting the suggestion that those perks are free.

 

[timeos2]

A score is tied to the whole experience - including fees

You should be ashamed of yourself.
First, you have a conflict of interest seeing as though you are HOA President of a locally competing resort.

Second, should I go around the web advocating we demand "110% perfection" from CP, otherwise our goal should be to have their Silver status removed??

Slimy.. at best.

When I stayed at the Manhattan Club - no where near Orlando, in NYC - and they demanded a a similar unfair fee I suddenly found all sorts of issues I had overlooked in the past. My usually 4 & 5 star ratings dropped to 2's and 3's at best as when I get hit for extra fees they had better be sure things are flawless. They were far from it. And I guess I wasn't alone as they lost their Gold Crown.

IF I ever traded in again to DVC I'd have the same approach - as should anyone stung with such an unfair cost. If I found everything that paid for perfect they'd get maybe a 4 - one problem and a well deserved 2 or 1 is in the works. If CPR charged for parking or nicked guests for Internet but owners got it free I'd fully expect our ratings to go down - why shouldn't they? The owners would be paying for it and giving it up in trade - the exchange guest should get treated like the owner they replaced not an interloper. As it should be. And was until a group started the fee trend.

As for "competing" I don't think so. Two entirely different approaches and most likely audiences for the two resorts. I doubt DVC cares what I think and I know CPR could care less what DVC does. I know I have my favorites and you have yours but being an owner (or even President of the HOA) doesn't blind me to problems at any resort. Heck - we were so bad in 2001 that we nearly lost all rankings. I was among the first to raise holy heck and demand changes. Look at my posts regarding Wastegate. I've owned there nearly as long as CPR but my feelings about it have changed dramatically over the years, thanks to mismanagement. Just as they did for DVC & now one of my absolute former favorites - the Manhattan Club. Treat owners and or guests poorly - and that includes hitting them with undeserved fees - and you take a deserved hit in the scores. They want good scores then fix the problems.

 

[JudyS]

....
This is one of the few times I've seen someone come out and say what I've suspected all along. My sense has been DVC Members who only think about exchanging out are a little disappointed, but not upset, because a well-informed DVC Member would rarely trade out. Most of them would be better off renting their points, and using the proceeds to rent the vacation lodging of their choosing.....

Well, in my case, I had actually been gearing up to deposit some DVC points into II, even though I generally consider this a terrible deal. The reason was that I had to cancel a Four Seasons Aviara week due to illness and also had some DVC points that I couldn't use for the same reason. (The points were set to expire in about 90 days, which makes them very hard to rent.) I was seriously bummed about losing the Four Seasons week, and was looking for the easiest way to use up the DVC points, get a substitute Four Seasons week for next fall, and just go back to bed. It annoyed me that Disney took away our ability to deposit DVC points for later trades (there is currently no way to do that) with no notice. Plus, RCI's poor customer service irks me, and I didn't like to see Disney affiliating with them.

For me, I think the biggest thing about Disney leaving II was that it drove home how little control DVC members really have over their ownerships (that is, none). It also showed that the DVC administration may not care much about its members. (In general, I won't buy at resorts that are developer-controlled. I made an exception for Disney because I felt that Disney's desire to protect its reputation gave some protection to owners, and I still largely feel that way.)

It is true that I was also bummed about losing the easy trades into DVC. However, I expect that -- as long as RCI really makes the DVC weeks available for trading, rather than renting them -- I will be able to trade into Disney via RCI. Marylyn, if you really want to trade into DVC, you can do it, too. RCI Points can be purchased quite cheaply these days, as can some RCI tiger traders.

Actually, once we figure out what will trade for DVC in RCI, there may be opportunities for TUG members to do permanent swaps of ownerships so that folks that want DVC get an RCI trader that "sees" DVC., and people who don't care about Disney get a good II trader.

About John, Cypress Pointe, and DVC -- I've never thought John's animosity to DVC had anything to do with his role at Cypress Pointe. (I've assumed it probably had more to do with Michael Eisner's changes to WDW, actually. A lot of people haven't been happy with how Disney changed under Eisner, although most people aren't as adamant about it.)

 

[Carl D]

About John, Cypress Pointe, and DVC -- I've never thought John's animosity to DVC had anything to do with his role at Cypress Pointe. (I've assumed it probably had more to do with Michael Eisner's changes to WDW, actually. A lot of people haven't been happy with how Disney changed under Eisner, although most people aren't as adamant about it.)

The great Eisner debate is not only worthy of it's own thread, but perhaps it's own entire message board.

 

[Carl D]

It also showed that the DVC administration may not care much about its members.

Hmm... Well, they still have to lay out an attractive product. I would imagine in the current environment they need every edge to maintain sales.
If they didn't care about Members, or they believed they have an inferior trading company, it would make that more difficult.

 

[JudyS]

The great Eisner debate is not only worthy of it's own thread, but perhaps it's own entire message board.

Or several message boards!

I'm not trying to start an Eisner debate, just pointing out that there are many plausible reasons why John might be unhappy with Disney, rather than having a vested interest due to Cypress Pointe.

Hmm... Well, they still have to lay out an attractive product. I would imagine in the current environment they need every edge to maintain sales.
If they didn't care about Members, or they believed they have an inferior trading company, it would make that more difficult.

My concern is that the move to RCI may be for marketing reasons, especially the possibility of having DVC be 1-in-4 in RCI. If DVC is looking to bring in new sales prospects at the expense of their current members, that would be a very bad sign. I do think that Disney will still be much more concerned about customer satisfaction than the typical timeshare development company is, but it would be a big step in that direction.

 

[timeos2]

For me, I think the biggest thing about Disney leaving II was that it drove home how little control DVC members really have over their ownerships (that is, none). It also showed that the DVC administration may not care much about its members. (In general, I won't buy at resorts that are developer-controlled. I made an exception for Disney because I felt that Disney's desire to protect its reputation gave some protection to owners, and I still largely feel that way.)

Exactly what turned us off about DVC. It took some Draconian actions by DVC to do it, but we figured out it was all about THEM not the buyers. The reputation is from the Walt days - it has been decades since the corporation put the owner/guest first. It's all about money now.

 

[bnoble]

Shooot---you think DVC is a ham-handed landlord, you should try owning Wyndham!

(PS: That whole ol' Uncle Walt thing? An act. He was a pretty darn shrewd businessman, even though his brother gets all the "credit" (or blame) for being "the money guy." I recommend reading Neal Gabler's excellent biography for a good picture.)

 

[PigsDad]

Hmm... Well, they still have to lay out an attractive product. I would imagine in the current environment they need every edge to maintain sales.
If they didn't care about Members, or they believed they have an inferior trading company, it would make that more difficult.

I think the RCI move could definitely help them in the sales department. The average potentiel buyer doesn't know that II has a reputation for a larger percentage of higher-end timeshare compared to RCI. When the salesperson is sitting down w/ that couple, the salesperson can now say they can exchange there DVC points for more that 15,000 properties, whereas if they bought the Marriott, they could only exchange for 5,000 properties (I have no idea about the actual numbers).

That would be a great selling tool, IMO.

Kurt

 

[rsackett]

.....When the salesperson is sitting down w/ that couple, the salesperson can now say they can exchange there DVC points for more that 15,000 properties, whereas if they bought the Marriott, they could only exchange for 5,000 properties (I have no idea about the actual numbers)....
Kurt

I have no dog in this fight. I am disappointed that I will no longer be able to trade into DVC.

This is a question for the DVC owners. When DVC traded with II, I thought the Disney hand picked just a few resorts that you could trade into. Is this correct? Was that the same in the old days of RCI trading? Do you have any idea if that will open up for you with RCI? Maybe DVC can take advantage of the RCI points system so your DVC points can be converted to RCI points and open up many more resorts to you. It could be a plus??? -- no?

Ray

 

[Carl D]

Exactly what turned us off about DVC. It took some Draconian actions by DVC to do it, but we figured out it was all about THEM not the buyers. The reputation is from the Walt days - it has been decades since the corporation put the owner/guest first. It's all about money now.

I just gotta know what the "Draconian" actions were. That may truly provide some insight into your hatred.

The rest of your statement is debatable.

 

[Carl D]

I have no dog in this fight. I am disappointed that I will no longer be able to trade into DVC.

This is a question for the DVC owners. When DVC traded with II, I thought the Disney hand picked just a few resorts that you could trade into. Is this correct? Was that the same in the old days of RCI trading? Do you have any idea if that will open up for you with RCI? Maybe DVC can take advantage of the RCI points system so your DVC points can be converted to RCI points and open up many more resorts to you. It could be a plus??? -- no?

Ray

-- Yes, DVC limited the resorts in II that we could trade into. There was roughly 500 from which to choose.

-- I don't know about when DVC was initially with RCI, as that was before I was a DVC Member.

-- As far as I know the details of the new DVC/RCI agreement have not yet been released.

Like you, this makes absolutely no difference to me. I never have, nor do I ever intend to trade DVC.

 

[Werner Weiss]

When DVC traded with II, I thought the Disney hand picked just a few resorts that you could trade into. Is this correct?

DVC has not yet published the details of the RCI version of the DVC World Passport Collection. The note to DVC members included the following:

While Members will continue to choose from more than 500 destinations across six continents and 25 countries, the enhanced Member Getaways program will offer a significantly broader range of resort experiences, length-of-stay options (including more nightly exchanges) and more.​

In other words, DVC will offer a subset or RCI resorts, just as they did with II -- and just as they originally did with RCI back when RCI was DC's initial exchange company.

Also, DVC members should have more choices that don't involve full weeks, which suggests some sort of tie-in to the RCI Points programs (probably an indirect tie-in in which DVC members deal with DVC points, not actual RCI points).

I don't expect DVC to release the details until the beginning of 2009.

On the other side of equation, all DVC resorts should be available through RCI at some point.

The majority of the weeks that appeared on the II website have been at Old Key West and Saratoga Springs. These are the largest DVC resorts. But deposits are not limited to these resorts.

DVC Member Services picks the weeks to be deposited. I've seen weeks sitting in II inventory for 5 on-site resorts -- Old Key West, BoardWalk Villas, Beach Club Villas, Villas at Wilderness Lodge, Saratoga Springs -- and the 2 other resorts -- Vero Beach, Hilton Head Island. So these should all be in RCI next year.

Animal Kingdom Villas (the main part of which is still under construction) is in next year's II directory, but was not yet active in II. It will undoubtedly become available in RCI.

DVC is building resorts at the Contemporary Resort (Bay Lake Tower), Disneyland Resort (Grand Californian), and Ko Olina on Oahu. These should all be in RCI at some point.

 

[ral]

DVC and RCI

Looks like DVC is going to be associated with RCI for its Member Getaways starting January 1, 2009. Anybody else familiar with this information? Does this mean that DVC is discontinuing its relationship with II?

 

[Jbart74]

See this recent and HOT thread:

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86250&highlight=rci

 

[ral]

Thanks for the thread.

See this recent and HOT thread:

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86250&highlight=rci

Sorry I didn't see it myself. I appreciate your providing me with this informative thread.

 

[Jbart74]

Glad to help.

Happy hunting with RCI. I am one of those who likes RCI. Always get what I want, when I want it. But I like things like Full Kitchens and less young kids. I am less concerned with crafting, yoga, and other organized activities. I like to make my own vacations, on my terms. Here's hoping you find what you desire as well!

 

[AwayWeGo]

Keep It Moving & Keep Owners Guessing.

I can't remember when they dumped RCI in favor of II, but I believe that it was within the first few years. I guess that they've come full circle.

Perhaps there is some Grand Plan in place that involves cyclical switching back & forth between I-I & RCI periodically.

Just when owners get accustomed to RCI, then -- WHAP ! -- DVC switches over to I-I.

After a few years, when owners are familiar with the workings & features of I-I, then -- BOOM ! -- time to switch back to RCI.

And so on & so forth right on down the line, right up to final expiration of those 42-year RTUs.

That'll work to keep'm off-balance, eh ?

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[bnoble]

Why not? Smart consumers do this with competing companies all the time---if the cable company will give you a deal for a year, with a 2-year commitment, great! When the 2 years is up, DirecTV will give you a deal for six months with a 2-year commitment, so you may as well switch. Or, you could call the cable co. and tell them you'll walk unless they match.

All part of "good business."

 

[rsackett]

.... RCI and a trade into DVC. When we arrived we were told we owed the $95 penalty (of course they didn't call it that and danced around the reason for it - the bottom line was it was to pay for transportation. Pointing out that it was FREE to anyone didn't bring anything but a shoulder shrug in reply). .....

So what do you think of RCI now that tey are alowing the $95 fee?

Ray

 

[blumga]

DVC Member re: RCI Change

I think you should reread the first 3 or 4 pages.
I thought I missed something the first time through, so I reread them.
-- I see one or two DVC Members expressing displeasure with the move, which is a legitimate thing to post about.
-- I see several non DVC Members upset because they can no longer trade into DVC.
-- I see several DVC Members making a generic comment about the move, without showing displeasure.

-- I see zero whining.

I may still be missing something, so perhaps you can repost the the whining posts??

I'm a DVC member who's quite annoyed at the Interval to RCI changeover. To clarify, the RCI resorts available to DVC members are far fewer that those offered by RCI at their web site. Sadly, the search facility and screen appearences are identical but we get far fewer search results. We get no resorts in Italy, none in China and in general, the choices are pathetically limited. RCI has some great resorts, but we DVC members can't choose them. I assure you that any DVC member who takes the time to review the list will be very disappointed.