Did Wyndham steal my points?

[Sandi Bo]

As to this thread itself. Yeah, the entire resale buying process is annoying. However if you go into it as a buyer knowing that losing the first year’s points if you are in the second half of the user year is just another junk Wyndham fee and/or time your purchase accordingly, I think it’s still worth it.

We've all been conditioned to turn a blind eye to Wyndham's unethical practices.

 

[Sandi Bo]

I think "steal" may be a bit much, but it seems they are pretty inconsistent with transferring same use year points. Last time I did it I got the entire current year points, and it was only a month and a half before my use year changed over. That was a while ago though.

What do you call it, if not stealing? Borrowing and not giving back?

 

[bnoble]

We've all been conditioned to turn a blind eye to Wyndham's unethical practices.

I don't know. I'm with Fido here. I agree that it is "wrong" for points to just disappear. But I have more important things to be angry about.
Money is fungible, so you can view it as part of the purchase cost, and adjust your offer accordingly.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

Money is fungible, so you can view it as part of the purchase cost, and adjust your offer accordingly.

And also just try to buy contracts between about August and November, to ensure that it should close in the first half of a January-December use year. This also saves you from paying maintenance fees on points you can’t use. Contracts tend to get cheaper towards November anyway as people try to unload as new maintenance assessments come out.

 

[CO skier]

And also just try to buy contracts between about August and November, to ensure that it should close in the first half of a January-December use year.

That is what I learned from this most excellent thread (while it was on-topic), but from a "someday" seller point of view. I will put my contract(s) on the market in September with all the current Use Year's points used by me. The buyer will receive the transfer sometime in the first quarter of the New Use Year (assuming a January 1 Use Year). Sure, I will pay for a few months maintenance fees for the new owner -- super small price to pay to transfer the ownership to someone who might be super happy to have a few months of maintenance fees pre-paid on their behalf.

We've all been conditioned to turn a blind eye to Wyndham's unethical practices.

It is clear from posts on TUG that no one is "turning a blind eye" to Wyndham. It is equally clear from TUG posts over more than a decade that Club Wyndham is Wyndham's sandbox. They make the rules -- anyone can read the Club Wyndham Trust documents, if there are any doubts.

What do you, Sandi Bo, suggest as an alternative to "Wyndham's unethical practices" for us to turn our eyes toward?

Or we informed owners on TUG can adapt, just like what Fido Chuckwagon and I just posted from the perspective of a buyer or seller (helping out the buyer).

 

[rickandcindy23]

We paid fees all year long on points that didn't automatically transfer to the new owners. Informed TUG members know what to do, but the "blind eye" happens to be the owner and new owner who didn't make sure the points transferred after the fees continue to be paid. To me, it is stealing, absolutely, when my points are withdrawn from the account and a new owner doesn't get the points.

LT Transfers did one of our first Wyndham transfers, gave away a Kingsgate contract. The new owner wanted us to pay the full year of MF's after they received the points in about June. I thought it quite nuts.

 

[chapjim]

That is what I learned from this most excellent thread (while it was on-topic), but from a "someday" seller point of view. I will put my contract(s) on the market in September with all the current Use Year's points used by me. The buyer will receive the transfer sometime in the first quarter of the New Use Year (assuming a January 1 Use Year). Sure, I will pay for a few months maintenance fees for the new owner -- super small price to pay to transfer the ownership to someone who might be super happy to have a few months of maintenance fees pre-paid on their behalf.


It is clear from posts on TUG that no one is "turning a blind eye" to Wyndham. It is equally clear from TUG posts over more than a decade that Club Wyndham is Wyndham's sandbox. They make the rules -- anyone can read the Club Wyndham Trust documents, if there are any doubts.

What do you, Sandi Bo, suggest as an alternative to "Wyndham's unethical practices" for us to turn our eyes toward?

Or we informed owners on TUG can adapt, just like what Fido Chuckwagon and I just posted from the perspective of a buyer or seller (helping out the buyer).

SNARK ALERT!!

 

[dioxide45]

And also just try to buy contracts between about August and November, to ensure that it should close in the first half of a January-December use year. This also saves you from paying maintenance fees on points you can’t use. Contracts tend to get cheaper towards November anyway as people try to unload as new maintenance assessments come out.

But we really shouldn't have to do that. I am not aware of any other timeshare companies that have this issue. Why is it just Wyndham. Shouldn't we be able to effect some kind of change with how they handle the process of transfers and use year rights? Use year rights are, or should be, something that is in a timeshare resale contract. This would be akin to selling a house and the buyer not getting to move in for another year. How can that be?

Overall, this is why I don't like Club Wyndham's monthly MF assessment billing. It muddies the waters of first use year on a resale contract. When we bought our contract, it didn't come with current year points, but it transferred in November. That meant I paid November and December fees for a use year that wasn't even mine. For the 2024 use year, I paid 14 months of assessments instead of 12. Had MFs been on annual billing, then I would have just paid the 2024 fees and been even.

This should be something that is easy enough for Wyndham to change. If they take points from the seller's account, those points should be moved to the buyer's account. No ifs ands or buts about it. It shouldn't matter what time of the year it is or what the lunar cycle might be. Anything else is just stealing and I am not sure how anyone can really defend that. I don't know why this comes down to an argument between renters and non renters?

Now, does Wyndham get use of those points? Yes, they do. In a round about way. They get use of any unreserved time at a certain number of days before checkin. When points evaporate into the abyss, those points result in less reserved time. Time that Wyndham can ultimately take and rent out for cash or use for promotional stays to get new victims through the sales floor.

 

[paxsarah]

This should be something that is easy enough for Wyndham to change. If they take points from the seller's account, those points should be moved to the buyer's account. No ifs ands or buts about it. It shouldn't matter what time of the year it is or what the lunar cycle might be. Anything else is just stealing and I am not sure how anyone can really defend that. I don't know why this comes down to an argument between renters and non renters?

It really should be as simple as this. In a practical sense, when I'm buying a resale contract I try to aim for the fall timeframe and calculate the worst-case scenario (Wyndham takes all the points, Wyndham realigns use year, etc) when deciding whether to even purchase/take a particular contract, and I don't take on that contract unless I can live with that worst-case scenario. But nobody should have to. Wyndham takes points from one owner; they should give them to the next owner. I find the fact that they don't sloppy and shady.

Do I still do business with them? Yes, because I have very little "invested" with them and I'm prepared to walk away when they make my ongoing day-to-day ownership (rather than the very occasional times when I add a resale contract) untenable. But I'm also prepared to spend some time on the phone, collecting documentation, or otherwise communicating with Wyndham in order to preserve hundreds of dollars worth of unused points that should have transferred to me before accepting that worst case.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

ut we really shouldn't have to do that.

Oh, I agree with you there. I just put it in the "some battles aren't worth fighting" camp.

At some point I thought there was some evidence posted here that the inverse thing might also be happening with Wyndham. That being if you used all your points up in the first half of a use year, and the contract transferred in that time, then Wyndham still awarded the points to the new owner.

 

[bnoble]

There are lots of things I shouldn't have to do. This is just one of them.

But, as the Big Book says: "Acceptance is the answer to all of my problems today..."

 

[dioxide45]

Oh, I agree with you there. I just put it in the "some battles aren't worth fighting" camp.

At some point I thought there was some evidence posted here that the inverse thing might also be happening with Wyndham. That being if you used all your points up in the first half of a use year, and the contract transferred in that time, then Wyndham still awarded the points to the new owner.

The problem is that you need to use ALL your points up. Not just the ones you think might be attached to a contract. If you are just wanting to unload some contracts and have points in your account you think are associated with the contracts you are keeping, you might lose those points instead.

 

[RENTER]

We paid fees all year long on points that didn't automatically transfer to the new owners. Informed TUG members know what to do, but the "blind eye" happens to be the owner and new owner who didn't make sure the points transferred after the fees continue to be paid. To me, it is stealing, absolutely, when my points are withdrawn from the account and a new owner doesn't get the points.

LT Transfers did one of our first Wyndham transfers, gave away a Kingsgate contract. The new owner wanted us to pay the full year of MF's after they received the points in about June. I thought it quite nuts.

This is why, even if I think it is sound advice will not do it. That being those who say do not let Wyndham take the contract back but put it up for sale or free here and let other owners have it.

Again, I think it is sound advice, but I have no time for the BS I see people having with these transfers. I have generated Wyndham over $200,000 since they went after renters the past 3.5 years. All of it went to them while I had trips paid for. If they want me to stop, I will simply walk away and rent from other owners I have helped over the years that I have developed a backup plan with waiting for that day.

 

[rickandcindy23]

There are lots of things I shouldn't have to do. This is just one of them.

But, as the Big Book says: "Acceptance is the answer to all of my problems today..."

I haven't read it but sure should. Our son reads it often, front to back. Probably lots of wisdom in it.

 

[bnoble]

You've probably read it, but in other forms.

 

[rickandcindy23]

You've probably read it, but in other forms.

Is Hanlon's Razor in the book?

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

It is just a self-centered hijack attempt by someone who wants to discuss how they use their Wyndham ownership.

I have generated Wyndham over $200,000

Fortunately for Wyndham, I have ignored you for the past 3.2 years about your definition of commercial and have brought in approx $200,000 to them.

It’s great that you are balling in hundreds of thousands of dollars of rental income in just 3.2 years. That is definitely a thing that is happening. Now with that out of the way perhaps we can continue to discuss whether it’s worth trying to take some type of coordinated action to convince Wyndham to reform their resale transfer policies.

Perhaps this is worth attempting to raise to Michael Brown’s office? Has anyone tried something like that? Should a bunch of us send emails?

 

[RENTER]

It’s great that you are balling in hundreds of thousands of dollars of rental income in just 3.2 years. That is definitely a thing that is happening. Now with that out of the way perhaps we can continue to discuss whether it’s worth trying to take some type of coordinated action to convince Wyndham to reform their resale transfer policies.

Perhaps this is worth attempting to raise to Michael Brown’s office? Has anyone tried something like that? Should a bunch of us send emails?

People have been sending emails. Some threating to just stop making payments because they are disgusted and lawsuits are costly and lengthy. But I have no confidence anything will change because many of today's CEO's seem to lack common sense unless there is a nationwide boycott that hurts them in the pocketbook like Harley and Bud Light suffered.

 

[CO skier]

Just like your definition of commercial,

You must have me confused with someone else.

I do not have a definition of "commercial", so I doubt I ever posted one.

you think your definition of thread hijacking is the right one and everyone else is wrong.

It is not "my" definition; it is the definition found throughout the internet -- you know, the definition from "everyone else."

 

[RENTER]

w

You must have me confused with someone else.

I do not have a definition of "commercial", so I doubt I ever posted one.


It is not "my" definition; it is the definition found throughout the internet -- you know, the definition from "everyone else."

whatever you say. We all know you are smarter than anyone else. By the way as I argued before, NOT EVERYONE. Not only me but the IRS and court system do not recognize renting private residences as a commercial activity. Off course a nitpicker like you will have a strict definition of what a private residence means. So let me change that word to private living areas. Private residence was my word.

Generally, the rule is you have to spend more than 250 hours on renting to be classified as a business. Their word is rental activity.

As for your definition of commercial, I was so sure you did during all our debates. But if you did not, it was others, and I apologize to you. I have a life unlike others here, so I do not have time to go back and check. So, I will apologize even if I may have been right.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

.

 

[CO skier]

.

His postings lead to a lot of self-embarrassment on his part and a few laughs as a result, and then that is about it.

Case in point:

So, I will apologize even if I may have been right.

... what an idiot.

 

[CO skier]

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