Did we get hosed?

[DeniseM]

Never pay a high upfront fee to list your timeshare - reputable brokers charge a commission out of the proceeds. The upfront fee companies make all their money upfront, so they don't care if they rent your timeshare or not.

If you call some of those companies, they are going to tell you they can rent it for far more than the current market, pocket your upfront fee, and that's the last you will hear from them. It is a common scam.

AND - Listing it with an agent will not change the realities of the market - the most profitable way is to do it yourself.

 

[stucandu]

Yes, I do have to supply a letter to any guest/renters. But how will the resort know the difference if they are indicated as guests. They need not know and I don't see any problem in them not knowing. This way I can rent out the rooms without having to pay the usage fee upfront. I'm not sure this is unethical or not. Comments?

 

[DeniseM]

Yes, I do have to supply a letter to any guest/renters. But how will the resort know the difference if they are indicated as guests. They need not know and I don't see any problem in them not knowing. This way I can rent out the rooms without having to pay the usage fee upfront. I'm not sure this is unethical or not. Comments?

Most renters want to be able to call the resort and confirm their reservation, so you will probably have to provide a guest certificate to them and go Legit. Shady deals make renters nervous.

 

[easyrider]

Yes, I do have to supply a letter to any guest/renters. But how will the resort know the difference if they are indicated as guests. They need not know and I don't see any problem in them not knowing. This way I can rent out the rooms without having to pay the usage fee upfront. I'm not sure this is unethical or not. Comments?

We always call the resort to comfirm TS weeks we rented and want to see our name on the confimation for that week in writing.

We alway furnish a resort confirmation and use a rental agreement when we rent a TS week. Everything is in writing either way. The resort TS's that we own will only let us reserve if we pay the MF for that week. We also are required to pay for a guest certificate.

 

[pittle]

Ok, this is certainly eye opening.
The only weeks I'm obligated to pay for are the 1 registered week for the first 5 years. The other weeks are optional. Thus it doesn't make any sense to me to rent at any less than the usage fee ($629) as I have to pay this amount anyway, so why take a loss.
To make it worthwhile, I think I'd need to get $750 minimum. From the sounds of it, that may not be too easy.
On top of this, I checked the terms and if I want to rent out the weeks, I have to pay the usage fees by Jan.31 of the year I'm renting them. Well this is a nice Catch 22. What if I don't rent them, or for less than the UF? THen I lose, maybe a lot.
I'm not sure how they would know I'm renting them, except I guess when the guest checks in, although we could just say that they are friends that we are loaning the place to. How are they going to prove otherwise?
One other thing is that the sales guy gave us a list of rental agencies: Continental Connections; Resort Rentals; Global Marketing Systems; Custom Vacations Mexico; and Destinations International, who all charge a one time fee ranging from $275 to $399 with Destinations International being the only one that charges a commision as well (10%). Does anyone have any experience dealing with these companies?
Thanks to all for your input, cautions and encouragement. Wish I'd known you before signing, but it's spilt milk now.

OK - I have been watching this thread and not jumping in, but now that you are mentioning the places that Grupo Mayan suggested, I have to respond. We own a total of 6 Grupo Mayan weeks. Do not under any circumstance use these companies!!! When we first bought, we tried using one of their companies and paid first - big mistake! They never rented our place but did finally make an exchange for us to another place not nearly as nice as our Mayan Palace. The only people that we have ever rented our units to are friends who were willing to pay our maintenance fees. We then made reservations and gave them a letter that they were our guests (you can do the same with renters). We did not try to recoup more than our maintenance fees. Not many people ever rent their places for the prices that the salesmen tell you that you can get.

I have bought directly from Grupo Mayan and on the secondary market. We have also upgraded through Grupo Mayan. I will tell you that the units I bought on eBay have the same benefits as do the ones I bought from Grupo Mayan. Our MP weeks can be transferred (sold) for the cost of 1 maintenance fee and our renovation fees every 5 years is equal to 1 maintenance fee. Our Grand Mayan weeks has the 1 m/f every 5 year reno fee and the cost to transfer (sell) is 5 m/f.

We absolutley love the resorts and now that I know what the new terms are, we will happily keep what we have!!! Thanks for sharing and welcome to TUG!

 

[am1]

Never pay a high upfront fee to list your timeshare - reputable brokers charge a commission out of the proceeds. The upfront fee companies make all their money upfront, so they don't care if they rent your timeshare or not.

If you call some of those companies, they are going to tell you they can rent it for far more than the current market, pocket your upfront fee, and that's the last you will hear from them. It is a common scam.

AND - Listing it with an agent will not change the realities of the market - the most profitable way is to do it yourself.

This is very good advice for the OP. The OP sounds like a good candidate to be taken advantage of again with the promise of renting for big money.

People need to realize the amount of work that goes into renting timeshares.

 

[pjrose]

Profeco?

Nobody has mentioned Profeco - can't the OP use them to try to get the purchase cancelled even beyond the five days, if there is any evidence of fraud or promises that weren't kept?
???

 

[mikenk]

Nobody has mentioned Profeco - can't the OP use them to try to get the purchase cancelled even beyond the five days, if there is any evidence of fraud or promises that weren't kept?
???

And on what grounds? The OP bought a timeshare retail that he (or she) could have gotten much cheaper resale; he was misled that he could rent out for high prices. The same game is being played out everyday all over Mexico (and the USA). Profeco (and USA courts) would be really busy if that alone were grounds for cancellation.

My bet is that all the words in the contract are being adhered to.

Mike

 

[fishingguy]

read and understand before signing!

mikenk makes a good point, about what was probably in the contract.

The OP wrote:

...I'm still trying to wrap my head around what I've gotten us into on this by reading through the contract, etc. but it's tricky to understand so any input will be helpful.

An all to familiar statement and after-the-fact. Something that should have been done before anything was signed.

Proving mis-representation or fraud is extremely difficult to do, when the contract likely includes a statement that it supersedes anything you may have been told.

 

[timeos2]

Yes, this is indeed the case, although we do have to pay a renovation fee equal to 2 usage fees (mf's ?) every 5 years (about $1260 @ current rates).
Taking this into account, as well as financing fees, etc. I calculate that the 3 annual weeks cost us $915/ea for a total of $68,625 plus $5200 for reno fees for $73,825.
If we are able to rent out 2 weeks/yr for only the usage fee, that gives us $31,500 and a balance of $42,325, meaning we pay $1693/yr for our one week (42,325/25).
I would put this as the worst cast scenario. I would hope that realistically we can rent the weeks out at $900 to $1200/ea. That doesn't sound unreasonable to me.
At the low end - $900, we would end up paying about $1,200 for our week/yr. At $1200 = $600/yr. And at the $1650 that was pitched us, then our weeks would be free and we'd profit about $7500.
So obviously, the higher we can rent the additional weeks out for, the better off we are.
I guess only time will show us what we'll get, but until then I'm going to hold on to the hope that we can at least get $900/week. Anything less and I would feel that we did get soaked.
Thanks for all the input.

Sadly the simple fact is your price is, by your own numbers, $68,000 or $1700/week for something that, if you even wanted that amount, would likely cost under $10,000 wit no upfront costs. Yes, to answer your original inquiry, you were "hosed". Doing the convoluted math to seemingly justify it is just understandably making yourself feel better. These weeks do not rent regularly for $1300 - more like $500 or much less if at all.

Sorry. If you can't get out make the best use you can or stop paying. Good luck.

 

[stucandu]

I just can't understand why anyone would rent their weeks for less than what the usage fee is, unless it's a mandatory UF and they are trying to recover some money. But for the optional weeks, makes no sense at all.

As of this point, my wife and I are considering possibly terminating and taking the loss of the deposit. An expensive lesson.

The contract states quite clearly and I quote:
"Member represents and warrants that he is not acquiring these vacation interval lodging rights and services for any rental, resale, investment or commercial purpose, and that he has not received, from any salesperson or any other source, any information or inducement regarding rentals, resales, or investment value that was relied upon or in any way influenced Member's decision to enter into this Contract"

It then goes on to say that it's okay to rent units out as a private transaction and to pay by Jan.31 any usage fees for weeks you're planning to rent out during that year (which I find completely unreasonable, why do they need the fee paid until you actually make the reservation, what happens if you don't find a renter at all, you've lost the (once) optional fee, probably forever)

Anyway, we most definitely did receive from our salesperson, information and inducements that we could rent and clear $1000/wk. This was loud and clear, he even made a diagram to graphically explain it. And this most certainly played a huge role in our decision to go ahead. After we quickly crunched some #'s it looked like we could almost get our week for free if we rented.

Yeah, we got hosed. And it's really soaking in now...

 

[am1]

The problem is you signed a contact that included the statement that you were not buying to rent.

So why would the lack of rentability of your weeks and what the sales person told you about renting affect your decision.

 

[pittle]

Oh the boxes with the green pens showing how much you will get! Any of us who bought from them know about those!

Since you do not have to pay for those extra weeks, just use what you have - 1 week each year in a great resort. Forget about those extra weeks and ideas of renting for a profit. Occasionally, you may want a 2nd week for yourselves - we love to go at lesast 2 weeks and a 3 week vacation is better. Just check to see if those extra weeks can be used in February and March. The "extra" weeks we have are called Vacation Fair (VF) and cannot be used in February or March. We have been able to use one the last week of January and then our regular week in February. Also, double check how far out you can reserve those. It generally is not as far out as your registered week. We only pay for our VF weeks when we make a reservation.

Also remember that when you decide to exchange to go another place, you have to pay an exchange fee of about $200. There is also a membership fee for RCI & HSI - another $100 per year for each that you need to factor in.

Just enjoy and know that you have a great product, even though you paid too much, but you are not the only one - there are thousands of us who bought their spiel.

Now that you have "paid your dues", you can watch the secondary market and find a 2-bedroom for about $2450 including closing costs and transfer fees. Then you can average out the cost of what you have - at least that is what we did! It does not minimalize what you paid, but it made us feel better about how much we had invested with them for extra time.

 

[aliikai2]

Did you pay retail? Yes, is that too much??

You might want to contact

grupomayanblog@grupovidanta.com

and explain how you feel that you were lied to and you would like to unwind this purchase. They will be the ones that may be able to help.

Best of luck,

Greg

I just can't understand why anyone would rent their weeks for less than what the usage fee is, unless it's a mandatory UF and they are trying to recover some money. But for the optional weeks, makes no sense at all.

As of this point, my wife and I are considering possibly terminating and taking the loss of the deposit. An expensive lesson.

The contract states quite clearly and I quote:
"Member represents and warrants that he is not acquiring these vacation interval lodging rights and services for any rental, resale, investment or commercial purpose, and that he has not received, from any salesperson or any other source, any information or inducement regarding rentals, resales, or investment value that was relied upon or in any way influenced Member's decision to enter into this Contract"

It then goes on to say that it's okay to rent units out as a private transaction and to pay by Jan.31 any usage fees for weeks you're planning to rent out during that year (which I find completely unreasonable, why do they need the fee paid until you actually make the reservation, what happens if you don't find a renter at all, you've lost the (once) optional fee, probably forever)

Anyway, we most definitely did receive from our salesperson, information and inducements that we could rent and clear $1000/wk. This was loud and clear, he even made a diagram to graphically explain it. And this most certainly played a huge role in our decision to go ahead. After we quickly crunched some #'s it looked like we could almost get our week for free if we rented.

Yeah, we got hosed. And it's really soaking in now...

 

[stucandu]

Thanks for this, I have sent an email protesting the sales tactics used and how greatly they persuaded our decision.
I'll let you know how things go.

Thanks to all for your input.

 

[pjrose]

Nobody has mentioned Profeco - can't the OP use them to try to get the purchase cancelled even beyond the five days, if there is any evidence of fraud or promises that weren't kept?
???

And on what grounds? The OP bought a timeshare retail that he (or she) could have gotten much cheaper resale; he was misled that he could rent out for high prices. The same game is being played out everyday all over Mexico (and the USA). Profeco (and USA courts) would be really busy if that alone were grounds for cancellation.

My bet is that all the words in the contract are being adhered to.

Mike

I wasn't sure what Profeco did....I thought they arbitrated disputes where the buyer claimed fraud or misleading tactics, but from your response I guess they only handle the ones where the written contract is not honored?

 

[max55]

ripped off or not?

Stu,I would not buy a timeshare to rent.
Even if they told you that it was your option to rent,(as it is),you buy a timeshare to use.
As far as your purchase,you did well in finding a great resort chain, with many options.
Other resorts are small,often crappy,in more ways then one.
Quit beating yourself up because others purchased resale.

Its about getting in as many 7 star vacations as you can, before you die.You will not have a bad vacation EVER again!
.

USE AND ENJOY,knowing that what others have ,really does not compare!~

 

[stucandu]

Have to wonder about someone who registers to post 1 message that is pro-retail timeshare

Anyway, I haven't heard anything back from that grupomayanblog and don't expect to. Not sure that is the best channel.

Is there any other way to fight back?

 

[fishingguy]

Have to wonder about someone who registers to post 1 message that is pro-retail timeshare

Exact same thing went through my mind when I saw that.

 

[pjrose]

Exact same thing went through my mind when I saw that.

Yep, great minds and all that

 

[mikenk]

Have to wonder about someone who registers to post 1 message that is pro-retail timeshare

Anyway, I haven't heard anything back from that grupomayanblog and don't expect to. Not sure that is the best channel.

Is there any other way to fight back?

Probably not to get your money back. Do remember that most people on TUG also learned the hard way about resale and made their initial purchase retail.

Shoot, I made a stupid investment last year and lost more than 20K and had no fun in the process. Sometime, you just have to move on.

We go to the mayan resorts twice a year and always have a great time. The more you use it, the more your 20K investment will be amortized. At some point, you will learn to appreciate that after 5 years, you will have no more obligatory MF unless you use; i don't know about your contract, but nowadays , people buying resale don't get those perks.

Mike

 

[AwayWeGo]

Nothing That The Timeshare Companies Sell At Full Freight Is Worth The Money.

Quit beating yourself up because others purchased resale.

True.

Once the purchase is final, then you own it & the best idea going forward is enjoying it & having fun with it.

No point in crying over spilt milk.

However, also going forward, the most sensible idea about acquiring timeshares is buying resale, which saves thousands of dollars for exactly the same thing as full freight, or the equivalent, or something even better.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[aliikai2]

I understand you are wound up, BUT

You are asking to be released from a binding contract that you signed.
You need to calm down and allow the process that Vida has in place to work for you.
It has only been a couple of days since I gave you their email address, a much shorter time that you were given to read and understand the contract.

Greg

Have to wonder about someone who registers to post 1 message that is pro-retail timeshare

Anyway, I haven't heard anything back from that grupomayanblog and don't expect to. Not sure that is the best channel.

Is there any other way to fight back?

 

[mikenk]

Have to wonder about someone who registers to post 1 message that is pro-retail timeshare

Anyway, I haven't heard anything back from that grupomayanblog and don't expect to. Not sure that is the best channel.

Is there any other way to fight back?

So why are you guys beating up on Max? Everyone had their first post. He didn't recommend buying retail; he said to quit crying over spilt milk. I agree with his comments.

Admittedly, the mayan contracted sales force lie well and aggressively; however, the resorts are excellent with great service. Instead of being mad, go enjoy your purchase; Hell, you paid a lot for it - better use it.

In five years, you will forget what you paid; you will remember the great vacations. You will also relish the fact that you only pay when you use.

Mike

 

[DeniseM]

Stu,I would not buy a timeshare to rent.
Even if they told you that it was your option to rent,(as it is),you buy a timeshare to use.
As far as your purchase,you did well in finding a great resort chain, with many options.
Other resorts are small,often crappy,in more ways then one.
Quit beating yourself up because others purchased resale.

Its about getting in as many 7 star vacations as you can, before you die.You will not have a bad vacation EVER again!
.

USE AND ENJOY,knowing that what others have ,really does not compare!~

Take a close look folks....

I am 99% sure that this is not "Max's" first post or first user name. In fact I think it's her 5th user name.