"DC Trust and Legacy/Exchange Points are the same."

[SueDonJ]

This topic is threatening to take over every thread here! Let's help ourselves by maintaining this one as an ongoing discussion with the latest info/speculation, and refer/link to it in other threads instead of taking them off track.

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Various Marriott reps and execs have been saying some version of, "they're the same thing," since the Destination Club was introduced back in June, 2010. They also say things like, "purchasing Trust Points will 'morph' or 'supercharge' the Points you get from your enrolled Weeks into Trust Points," or, "you'll be able to combine the two types of Points to access any inventory," etc. It's important to note that these statements aren't completely correct. But, they're not completely incorrect either! It shouldn't come as a surprise that Marriott puts the dichotomy in its best possible light when you consider that their objective is to sell, literally and figuratively, the DC Points Product. Our objective isn't the same - we simply want to know how DC Points work so we can get the best usage value.

There are terms and conditions in the DC governing documents that apply only to Trust Points, others only to Exchange Points, and others still to both types of Points. These account for variances that will exist until/unless the docs are amended such that there aren't any specific-application t&c's, and they're the reason for the technical v. functional differences between Trust and Legacy Points.

Trust and Legacy Points have the same usage value. In other words, the costs for any intervals in the Points Chart or for any DC Collections offers are the same regardless of which type of Points you'll be using. That's how it can be said that, "they're the same." But the difference between them is in which "bucket" the certain intervals are located at the time of a request. Trust Points have direct access to any available intervals that have been conveyed to the Trust as well as any intervals that are made available through the DC Exchange Company (from a number of different sources.) Legacy Points have direct access to only the intervals that are made available through the Exchange Company.

It's obvious that since the DC inception Marriott has tweaked its inventory management such that a larger number of Trust intervals are now being deposited to the EC in advance of check-in dates, and, that some intervals can be deposited to the EC on an immediate basis by a VOA when a particular request is made. TUGgers are reporting what appears to be a fairly high level of satisfaction with reservation requests through the EC. But as evidenced by reports to TUG from Owners/Members trying to use a combination of Trust and Legacy Points for a single interval, all available inventory is NOT simply parked in the Exchange Company to satisfy all requests. If it were, then those TUGgers would not have been told as they were by VOA's that, "what you're requesting is only available with Trust Points." The reason, as speculated by many TUGgers, is that Marriott must retain some intervals in the Trust "bucket" to be able to satisfy anticipated requests from pure Trust Members. (Think of it as being similar to the Weeks system in which Marriott cannot access any Weeks which must be held back - according to those t&c's - for Weeks Owners' usage.)

So, combining the two types of Points for a single reservation comes down in the simplest form to a technical v. functional issue - the interval costs the same amount of DC Points regardless of the type of Points, but availability will be driven by the inventory "buckets" until/unless there aren't any distinctions between Trust and Legacy Points.

As far as the "supercharge" claim, I think it's possible that the VOA's have been instructed to perform immediate deposits of certain Trust intervals to the EC when they're requested by Owners with a combination of Trust and Legacy Points, but not when requested by Owners of only Legacy Points. If this is what's happening then it certainly can be played up as a selling feature by Marriott reps/execs, but perhaps their terminology needs some tweaking because it's obvious from the t&c's that Legacy Points cannot be legally converted to Trust Points.

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Obviously this doesn't get into ALL the minute details of inventory management but it should be a good start. Please, feel free to add your own experiences, speculation, and disagreement to this thread. The more the merrier.

 

[lizap]

I am so glad you started a separate thread; this is a very important issue. Marriott is still contending there is no difference. Only time will tell. I'm not buying this way unless I have something in writing from Marriott.

 

[ajlm33]

I was told yesterday at a presentation at the Aruba Surf Club that they were the same. I said "really?" and he again repeated that trust points and legacy points were equal. Only time will tell, I guess...

 

[FractionalTraveler]

I have executed over 20 DC reservations since the program was launched.

I own Legacy and Trust points. The way the system has allowed me to use these points has indicated to me that the points are being treated the same and are being combined when needed to satisfy my reservation.

I have never run across any searches or reservation transactions that has limited me to using only bucket or the other. The system currently lets me decide how I want the points applied from either enrolled legacy points or newer trust points.

I haven't observed any difference or limitation to date.

FT

 

[GregT]

Sue,

It is interesting -- and I believe that Marriott wants us to believe that points are points -- but I believe they are different.

I also think, for the most part, that Marriott does a good job (today) at combining the two buckets, to maintain the functionality that points are points.

Successful example: I booked a 3BR OF at Kauai Lagoons exactly 13 months out -- that can only come from the Trust. And I used legacy points.

Failure example: I knew an individual week was in the Trust -- but it did not appear to me 13 months out -- I watched carefully for it (for this very reason), and have done this several times (figuring an isolated incident could be explained, but not the pattern).

I don't believe the passage of time has cured this older example, as we also have a recent example of a TUGger being told that a reservation was only available to Trust Points.

So....I think, for the most, legacy points are as effective as Trust Points -- but I've seen (and I believe) that they can, on occasion, are treated differently.

Best,

Greg

 

[dougp26364]

From a legal standpoint I'm sure they're not the same. From the practicle standpoint of owners using points, I'm sure they are the same.

All that matters is one thing. Can owners get the reservations they want in a seemless system utilizing either trust point, legacy points or a combination of both? IMHO, the answer to that question is yes, owners can use points seamlessly at this time.

I'm at a point I really don't care what the legal documents say. All I care about is getting the reservations and/or exchanges I'm after. I've been able to do that so far in the weeks system, the points system and reserving vacations at my home resort.

 

[dioxide45]

From a legal standpoint I'm sure they're not the same. From the practicle standpoint of owners using points, I'm sure they are the same.

All that matters is one thing. Can owners get the reservations they want in a seemless system utilizing either trust point, legacy points or a combination of both? IMHO, the answer to that question is yes, owners can use points seamlessly at this time.

I'm at a point I really don't care what the legal documents say. All I care about is getting the reservations and/or exchanges I'm after. I've been able to do that so far in the weeks system, the points system and reserving vacations at my home resort.

This is basically what it all comes down to. It seems that some have had trouble making certain reservations, but for the most part many are quite please with their ability to reserve with points.

 

[hotcoffee]

. . . All that matters is one thing. Can owners get the reservations they want in a seemless system utilizing either trust point, legacy points or a combination of both? . . . All I care about is getting the reservations and/or exchanges I'm after. . . .

I did not always get what I wanted via the weeks system, but so far with DC, I have yet to fail getting what I wanted. So, if the system is working, it is good. If it had not been working, it would have been a bad system. At this point, I would have to say that DC has been a success.

 

[StevenTing]

I had one problem at the very beginning of the program. I got customer advocacy involved and it was resolved in two weeks time. This was for a 13 day ocean front stay in the Lahaina Tower in Maui in 2011


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[SMB1]

Denied Again.

I have both legacy and trust points. Saw a summer 2014 OceanWatch week on my-vacationclub.com. When I tried to book it it said I was going to have to borrow points from 2015. Called a VOA who told me that that week was only available as a trust reservation. Could not combine my 2014 exchange points with 2014 trust points to get it.

Again this morning I was denied a week at OceanWatch because it was Trust only inventory. I asked the VOA why they could not deposit the week into the exchange pool and use my trust and exchange points to book it. I told her this had been done for me in the past and that Marriott officials have been claiming recently that points are points and they work seamlessly together. She put me on hold to talk to a supervisor.

According to the supervisor, it is up to the resort to decide if they want to designate some trust only reservations and that OceanWatch is one of those.

 

[GregT]

Again this morning I was denied a week at OceanWatch because it was Trust only inventory. I asked the VOA why they could not deposit the week into the exchange pool and use my trust and exchange points to book it. I told her this had been done for me in the past and that Marriott officials have been claiming recently that points are points and they work seamlessly together. She put me on hold to talk to a supervisor.

According to the supervisor, it is up to the resort to decide if they want to designate some trust only reservations and that OceanWatch is one of those.

Can you tell us the dates (and view category) that you were trying to reserve -- where weeks were available for Trust Point reservations, but not a hybrid reservation?


Thanks!

 

[SueDonJ]

Again this morning I was denied a week at OceanWatch because it was Trust only inventory. I asked the VOA why they could not deposit the week into the exchange pool and use my trust and exchange points to book it. I told her this had been done for me in the past and that Marriott officials have been claiming recently that points are points and they work seamlessly together. She put me on hold to talk to a supervisor.

According to the supervisor, it is up to the resort to decide if they want to designate some trust only reservations and that OceanWatch is one of those.

Interesting remark about it being up to the resorts. Wonder if Marriott - as the system Manager - makes the decision for each resort or if it's the resort BOD or GM? Certainly there haven't been any reports to TUG of owners being asked to vote on anything remotely related ...

Thanks for posting.

(Moderator Note: Do you have any objection to your post and replies to it being moved to the "DC Trust and Legacy/Exchange Points are the same." thread? It's your choice.)

 

[dioxide45]

Again this morning I was denied a week at OceanWatch because it was Trust only inventory. I asked the VOA why they could not deposit the week into the exchange pool and use my trust and exchange points to book it. I told her this had been done for me in the past and that Marriott officials have been claiming recently that points are points and they work seamlessly together. She put me on hold to talk to a supervisor.

According to the supervisor, it is up to the resort to decide if they want to designate some trust only reservations and that OceanWatch is one of those.

I am thinking you were being given a line. I could be wrong, but I simply don't see the resorts in any way being involved with the inventory management.

 

[SMB1]

Interesting remark about it being up to the resorts. Wonder if Marriott - as the system Manager - makes the decision for each resort or if it's the resort BOD or GM? Certainly there haven't been any reports to TUG of owners being asked to vote on anything remotely related ...

Thanks for posting.

(Moderator Note: Do you have any objection to your post and replies to it being moved to the "DC Trust and Legacy/Exchange Points are the same." thread? It's your choice.)

No problem.

Thank you! SueDonJ

 

[SMB1]

Can you tell us the dates (and view category) that you were trying to reserve -- where weeks were available for Trust Point reservationsI'VE TRIED TO , but not a hybrid reservation?


Thanks!

Each of the last 2 Tuesday mornings I've tried to book 7 nights at the 13 month mark. So OceanWatch August 3rd view Ocean and August 9th Ocean front were only trust points.

 

[Fasttr]

I think its related to a 13 month out reservation. I too had the issue with a 13 month out attempt trying to use combined points, but have never had an issue with 12 months or less out. And the 13 month out did say MVC TRUST in the reservation notes when I eventually only used trust points to get it, instead of MVC EXCHANGE which all of the 12 months or less have said in the reservation notes.

 

[SueDonJ]

I think its related to a 13 month out reservation. I too had the issue with a 13 month out attempt trying to use combined points, but have never had an issue with 12 months or less out. And the 13 month out did say MVC TRUST in the reservation notes when I eventually only used trust points to get it, instead of MVC EXCHANGE which all of the 12 months or less have said in the reservation notes.

Hmmmm. Could it really be that simple, that Marriott is making everything available through the DC Exchange Company but not until the 12-mos mark? It sure does seem to explain a whole lot of things ...

 

[windje2000]

Hmmmm. Could it really be that simple, that Marriott is making everything available through the DC Exchange Company but not until the 12-mos mark? It sure does seem to explain a whole lot of things ...

That is very much like my suggestion in this earlier thread.

link

 

[lizap]

I asked a Marriott rep to put in writing to me (a couple of weeks ago) that trust points and legacy points can be combined. When he was trying to sell me a fixed week (convertible into legacy points) along with DC points, he kept saying they were the same and could be combined. There have been reports of people having trouble booking using both as they come from separate buckets. He has yet to respond. Very telling...

 

[GregT]

All,

I had a lengthy conversation with a representative from Customer Advocacy today. The purpose was to talk about the week 26 Unit 6206 that just disappeared into the Trust. I was trying to figure out if this week can be booked via legacy points, or whether it would require Trust Points.

I told him I was aware of some instances where a week wasn't available to legacy points, only for Trust Points (this has occurred both for me, and also for SMB recently).

He was insistent that a point was a point, and that the week I am interested in should be available to either the legacy point or the trust point user at the same time. He indicated that some of what I described might be explained by the timing of inventory release.

He indicated that, for the Trust, just like for week reservations, only 50% of the underlying weeks are made available for Point reservations. And the remaining 50% become available at 12 months out. I had suspected that they were holding some back, but this was the first pseudo-confirmation.

I thought this was an interesting comment -- I can't reconcile SMB's experience with this, but I can reconcile my own experience. There are two Kauai Lagoon 3BR OFs in the Trust -- one loaded 13 months out (and I booked it with legacy points) and then no availability showed up until 12 months out -- when the second one loaded. It is also possible that some of the 3BR units that I sighted 12 months out at MOC (but not 13 months out) were simply released at 12 months out. I had assumed that because it was fixed week/single week, that it would have been available to a Trust Point owner between months 12-13, but he had indicated that was not the case.

He indicated it was to preserve fairness to all owners, to avoid too much being absorbed 13 months out. This seemed at odds with the whole 20% premium thing to book 13 months out -- but maybe that's a rule that's gone by the wayside.

So...I am going to run some experiments in 2015 (I am out of 2014 parts) to see what I can try to decipher. I would be happy to be able to book the 6206 week 26 with legacy points (and then count on room assignments to connect me).

Best,

Greg

 

[windje2000]

All,

I had a lengthy conversation with a representative from Customer Advocacy today. The purpose was to talk about the week 26 Unit 6206 that just disappeared into the Trust. I was trying to figure out if this week can be booked via legacy points, or whether it would require Trust Points.

I told him I was aware of some instances where a week wasn't available to legacy points, only for Trust Points (this has occurred both for me, and also for SMB recently).

He was insistent that a point was a point, and that the week I am interested in should be available to either the legacy point or the trust point user at the same time. He indicated that some of what I described might be explained by the timing of inventory release.

He indicated that, for the Trust, just like for week reservations, only 50% of the underlying weeks are made available for Point reservations. And the remaining 50% become available at 12 months out. I had suspected that they were holding it back, but this was the first pseudo-confirmation.

I thought this was an interesting comment -- I can't reconcile SMB's experience with this, but I can reconcile my own experience. There are two Kauai Lagoon 3BR OFs in the Trust -- one loaded 13 months out (and I booked it with legacy points) and then no availability showed up until 12 months out -- when the second one loaded.

He indicated it was to preserve fairness to all owners, to avoid too much being absorbed 13 months out. This seemed at odds with the whole 20% premium thing to book 13 months out -- but maybe that's a rule that's gone by the wayside.

So...I am going to run some experiments in 2015 (I am out of 2014 parts) to see what I can try to decipher. I would be happy to be able to book the 6206 week 26 with legacy points (and then count on room assignments to connect me).

Best,

Greg

Most interesting - Did you get any insight into whether the inventory is made available by or thru the DC Exchange Co. at 13 and 12 months out and therefore obtainable by both legacy and trust point owners? (Which would explain the notations on the reservations noted in several posts by FT.)

 

[GregT]

Most interesting - Did you get any insight into whether the inventory is made available by or thru the DC Exchange Co. at 13 and 12 months out and therefore obtainable by both legacy and trust point owners? (Which would explain the notations on the reservations noted in several posts by FT.)

I didn't get any insight as to the mechanism used -- sorry about that!

I just spoke with Maui Ocean Club's GM and room assignments manager to try to understand room priority (and they were very helpful). She believed my chances were decent if I was an early time stamp and I requested that specific room. She indicated that it was their preference to try and keep me in the same room. Finally, she indicated it didn't matter whether I made the reservation with Trust Points or legacy points, because I asked if my odds increased if I made the reservation with Trust Points, or partial Trust Points.

Hmmm....... interesting.

Best,

Greg

 

[GregT]

All,

A separate thread has included information on the nature of Trust versus Legacy points.

In summary, for the vast majority of point reservations, Legacy Points will function the same as Trust Points.

However, Marriott inventory control appears to designate certain weeks as requiring Trust Points to reserve from months 12-13. These appear to be ultra-prime weeks that are scarce in the Trust. The anecdotal information from VOAs is that at Month 12, the "Trust Only" weeks can be booked with legacy points.

Best,

Greg

 

[thinze3]

MVCI is coming to Houston in order to "explain" the questions that have been coming in about the DC Club. It will be a 2 HR presentation with the first hour being about the system (with some Q&A), and the second hour only for those who want more detailed information, broken down into smaller groups.

I specifically asked about the 2 buckets. The lady told me that all units had now been combined and that all points are now the same. That is one of the topics on the agenda. I reminded her that only last year the salespeople were saying just the opposite. She was aware of that.

Anyway, I don't know if I'm going or not. They are offering 20K points to come in and here them out.

 

[jcjl1]

Coming to HTown?

Haven't heard about it. When is it and any idea what the criteria was for being invited?