"DC Trust and Legacy/Exchange Points are the same."

[thinze3]

Haven't heard about it. When is it and any idea what the criteria was for being invited?

Three days, August 8-10 at The Woodlands Marriott. there were 3 different times available on Saturday (08/10) alone.

I mentioned that I hadn't heard anything about it, and the lady told me that the invitations were "targeted". I signed up for Aug 10th but have until Aug 3rd to cancel.

 

[brigechols]

MVCI is coming to Houston in order to "explain" the questions that have been coming in about the DC Club. It will be a 2 HR presentation with the first hour being about the system (with some Q&A), and the second hour only for those who want more detailed information, broken down into smaller groups.

I specifically asked about the 2 buckets. The lady told me that all units had now been combined and that all points are now the same. That is one of the topics on the agenda. I reminded her that only last year the salespeople were saying just the opposite. She was aware of that.

Anyway, I don't know if I'm going or not. They are offering 20K points to come in and here them out.

My invitation offered 20k points or $100. I'll pass.

 

[jcjl1]

Three days, August 8-10 at The Woodlands Marriott. there were 3 different times available on Saturday (08/10) alone.

I mentioned that I hadn't heard anything about it, and the lady told me that the invitations were "targeted". I signed up for Aug 10th but have until Aug 3rd to cancel.

My invitation offered 20k points or $100. I'll pass.

Thanks for your quick responses! Guess they have me pegged as not going to buy Trust Points (which is correct)!

 

[ggillen]

'MVCI is coming to Houston'. Do you have any idea if MVCI will be coming to NYC?
The only time I can have questions answered is to go to a timeshare presentation.
It would be great to be able to talk to someone from the MVC Destinations Program,
face to face, rather than being restricted to talking on the phone to a Rep. Thanks

 

[lizap]

Why Isn't MVC Willing to Put in Writing That DC Points and Legacy Points are Same

There has been much discussion on this forum about the problems of combining DC trust points and legacy points. The problems center around the fact that they come from different 'buckets'; people have reported problems when trying to book a reservation that requires points from both. I asked a MVC rep several weeks ago if this was a problem, and he replied that they were the same now and would not create any problems. I asked him to put this in writing, and have not heard from him since then. I am very interested in purchasing MVC, especially from MVC ( legacy week plus buying DC points), but cannot until this is cleared up. I'm sure I can't be the only one in this boat. Why doesn't MVC clear this up by putting a statement that the points can be combined without any problems on their website?

[Note threads merged. <--- SueDonJ]

 

[Fasttr]

I think the majority here have concluded that they are basically the same when using points from 12 months and less before reservation date, but in certain instances in the 13 month window, there are still differences. If you plan to be booking primarily in the 13 month window, then it could prove to be problematic at times, but if most of your reservations would be made in the 12 month window, then I don't see it as an issue... IMO. Depends if you plan to purchase enough points to be Premier or Premier+ where the 13 month window is a benefit to you.

 

[lizap]

OK, then why don't they guarantee/put in writing there is no problem? I think there are a number here that are still not convinced.

I think the majority here have concluded that they are basically the same when using points from 12 months and less before reservation date, but in certain instances in the 13 month window, there are still differences. If you plan to be booking primarily in the 13 month window, then it could prove to be problematic at times, but if most of your reservations would be made in the 12 month window, then I don't see it as an issue... IMO. Depends if you plan to purchase enough points to be Premire or Premier+ where the 13 month window is a benefit to you.

 

[Fasttr]

OK, then why don't they guarantee/put in writing there is no problem?

I am not a Marriott or a VAC employee, so I would not know the answer to that. I'm guessing the majority of the employees really don't know the nuances of the reservation system which is why nobody is willing to put it in writing for you.

 

[lizap]

So they are trying to sell a product without knowing the nuances of the system. Makes perfect sense. I think I will wait to purchase until they learn those nuances or until there are a substantial number of others who report positive results combining points.

I am not a Marriott or a VAC employee, so I would not know the answer to that. I'm guessing the majority of the employees really don't know the nuances of the reservation system which is why nobody is willing to put it in writing for you.

 

[Fasttr]

I will add that I am one who has experienced the issue in the 13 month window (I am not P or P+, I was using the 120% points to make sure I could get the unit). That said, I have also used combined (Legacy and Trust) points to book a couple of times in the 12 month window and did not have any issues whatsoever with those.

 

[lizap]

I'm glad to hear that you didn't have a problem combining points in the 12 month window. I'll put you down on the positive results list.

I will add that I am one who has experienced the issue in the 13 month window (I am not P or P+, I was using the 120% points to make sure I could get the unit). That said, I have also used combined (Legacy and Trust) points to book a couple of times in the 12 month window and did not have any issues whatsoever with those.

 

[SueDonJ]

OK, then why don't they guarantee/put in writing there is no problem? I think there are a number here that are still not convinced.

Because technically it's not true according to the definitions and stipulations contained in the governing documents. DC Trust Members and DC Exchange Members are defined specifically in those docs with the main difference between them being how the Members' Points are acquired. As well, the docs specify how intervals are acquired from different sources and then become available for reservations.

Even if Marriott somehow manages to integrate Trust and Exchange Points such that every reservation comes from the same inventory pool and is available to all DC Members (which is happening now on a more frequent basis than at the DC rollout but still not 100% of the time,) there will still be a difference between the technical and functional aspects of the system. I wouldn't expect that Marriott could publish an official statement saying Trust and Exchange Points are the same because that statement is effectively contrary to the governing documents; I'd expect an official statement like that only if/when the docs are amended.

For what it's worth, throughout the entire life cycle when Weeks were the only Marriott game in town there were many questions surrounding inventory machinations that Marriott didn't ever make fully transparent to MVCI Owners. They just don't work that way.

 

[puckmanfl]

good evening....

I have booked 3 bedroom OF at Kauai Lagoons (6/14-6/21 2014) at 13 months using legacy points only. Booked RC Vail (ski season) at 13 months using Legacy points.

Pretty sure these units were Trust inventory...

 

[lizap]

Why don't they just amend the governing documents?

Because technically it's not true according to the definitions and stipulations contained in the governing documents. DC Trust Members and DC Exchange Members are defined specifically in those docs with the main difference between them being how the Members' Points are acquired. As well, the docs specify how intervals are acquired from different sources and then become available for reservations.

Even if Marriott somehow manages to integrate Trust and Exchange Points such that every reservation comes from the same inventory pool and is available to all DC Members (which is happening now on a more frequent basis than at the DC rollout but still not 100% of the time,) there will still be a difference between the technical and functional aspects of the system. I wouldn't expect that Marriott could publish an official statement saying Trust and Exchange Points are the same because that statement is effectively contrary to the governing documents; I'd expect an official statement like that only if/when the docs are amended.

For what it's worth, throughout the entire life cycle when Weeks were the only Marriott game in town there were many questions surrounding inventory machinations that Marriott didn't ever make fully transparent to MVCI Owners. They just don't work that way.

 

[Fasttr]

good evening....

I have booked 3 bedroom OF at Kauai Lagoons (6/14-6/21 2014) at 13 months using legacy points only. Booked RC Vail (ski season) at 13 months using Legacy points.

Pretty sure these units were Trust inventory...

The question is not if they were Trust inventory, its whether that Trust inventory was placed into the Exchange as of the date you booked it. I believe by definition it had to be or you would not have been able to book it. Look at your Marriott reservation....if it said MVC EXCHANGE, it was inventory that had been placed into the Exchange, regardless of where it came from. The point being that IMO, at times, there is inventory at the 13 month mark that still has not been placed into the Exchange.

 

[lizap]

Did you use legacy points or a combination of DC and legacy points for RC Vail?

good evening....

I have booked 3 bedroom OF at Kauai Lagoons (6/14-6/21 2014) at 13 months using legacy points only. Booked RC Vail (ski season) at 13 months using Legacy points.

Pretty sure these units were Trust inventory...

 

[SueDonJ]

The other thing that occurs to me that we're not necessarily dealing with now but will happen eventually as more and more pure Trust Members are brought into the system, is the assumption that Trust Members have a similar guarantee to Trust-conveyed intervals that Weeks Owners have to intervals at their home resorts.

Marriott can't just dump intervals from the DC Exchange Company into the Trust so if the object is to make all intervals available to all DC Members, the only alternatives are to either keep everything completely separate, or, dump everthing into the Exchange Company. But doing that, effectively making every interval available on an equal basis to Trust and Exchange Members, could eventually lead to Trust Members not being able to use their Points. Not now, and maybe not even soon, but eventually when the program has matured and there are more pure Trust Members onboard, it's Marriott's ability to keep separate the various inventory pools which will safeguard those Trust Members' usage rights.

 

[SueDonJ]

Why don't they just amend the governing documents?

I was typing Post [#42] when you wrote this.

 

[rpgriego]

The question is not if they were Trust inventory, its whether that Trust inventory was placed into the Exchange as of the date you booked it. I believe by definition it had to be or you would not have been able to book it. Look at your Marriott reservation....if it said MVC EXCHANGE, it was inventory that had been placed into the Exchange, regardless of where it came from. The point being that IMO, at times, there is inventory at the 13 month mark that still has not been placed into the Exchange.

This is the BEST post EVER on this blog, regarding this repeated subject! And four [well written] sentences finally made me understand. THANKS!

 

[dioxide45]

The other thing that occurs to me that we're not necessarily dealing with now but will happen eventually as more and more pure Trust Members are brought into the system, is the assumption that Trust Members have a similar guarantee to Trust-conveyed intervals that Weeks Owners have to intervals at their home resorts.

Marriott can't just dump intervals from the DC Exchange Company into the Trust so if the object is to make all intervals available to all DC Members, the only alternatives are to either keep everything completely separate, or, dump everthing into the Exchange Company. But doing that, effectively making every interval available on an equal basis to Trust and Exchange Members, could eventually lead to Trust Members not being able to use their Points. Not now, and maybe not even soon, but eventually when the program has matured and there are more pure Trust Members onboard, it's Marriott's ability to keep separate the various inventory pools which will safeguard those Trust Members' usage rights.

This is the one reason that they will never amend the governing documents. As the DC program gets more mature they need the flexibility and the legal distinction will be necessary. As a legacy points owner, you will never own and have direct access to what the trust owners own. Trust owners will never have access to weeks inventory. As more inventory is added to the trust and more high point trust owners come along, they want the ability to hold back specific inventory for trust owners only.

I suspect as more and more points are sold and more and more inventory makes it in to the trust, getting reservations at 13 or even 12 months out of what is actual trust inventory will be harder.

The question is not if they were Trust inventory, its whether that Trust inventory was placed into the Exchange as of the date you booked it. I believe by definition it had to be or you would not have been able to book it. Look at your Marriott reservation....if it said MVC EXCHANGE, it was inventory that had been placed into the Exchange, regardless of where it came from. The point being that IMO, at times, there is inventory at the 13 month mark that still has not been placed into the Exchange.

I would suspect that this is what is happening. At resorts where there is a lot of trust inventory, MVCI has determined that it won't all be used by trust owners, so they deposit the inventory in to the MVCI Exchange Company very early. Kauai Lagoons is an example of this.

I also believe that reps have the ability to pull certain inventory from the trust and deposit it to the MVC Exchange Company in order to fill specific legacy reservation requests. Though all legacy points reservations will show "MVC Exchange" as in order to reserve it the inventory must pass through the Exchange Company.

 

[SueDonJ]

This is the one reason that they will never amend the governing documents. As the DC program gets more mature they need the flexibility and the legal distinction will be necessary. As a legacy points owner, you will never own and have direct access to what the trust owners own. Trust owners will never have access to weeks inventory. As more inventory is added to the trust and more high point trust owners come along, they want the ability to hold back specific inventory for trust owners only.

I suspect as more and more points are sold and more and more inventory makes it in to the trust, getting reservations at 13 or even 12 months out of what is actual trust inventory will be harder.



I would suspect that this is what is happening. At resorts where there is a lot of trust inventory, MVCI has determined that it won't all be used by trust owners, so they deposit the inventory in to the MVCI Exchange Company very early. Kauai Lagoons is an example of this.

I also believe that reps have the ability to pull certain inventory from the trust and deposit it to the MVC Exchange Company in order to fill specific legacy reservation requests. Though all legacy points reservations will show "MVC Exchange" as in order to reserve it the inventory must pass through the Exchange Company.

Yep, I agree completely.

 

[lizap]

Excellent explaination. Then they are NOT the same. Thus, it is misleading for them to say they are; hence they will NEVER put this in writing.

This is the one reason that they will never amend the governing documents. As the DC program gets more mature they need the flexibility and the legal distinction will be necessary. As a legacy points owner, you will never own and have direct access to what the trust owners own. Trust owners will never have access to weeks inventory. As more inventory is added to the trust and more high point trust owners come along, they want the ability to hold back specific inventory for trust owners only.

I suspect as more and more points are sold and more and more inventory makes it in to the trust, getting reservations at 13 or even 12 months out of what is actual trust inventory will be harder.



I would suspect that this is what is happening. At resorts where there is a lot of trust inventory, MVCI has determined that it won't all be used by trust owners, so they deposit the inventory in to the MVCI Exchange Company very early. Kauai Lagoons is an example of this.

I also believe that reps have the ability to pull certain inventory from the trust and deposit it to the MVC Exchange Company in order to fill specific legacy reservation requests. Though all legacy points reservations will show "MVC Exchange" as in order to reserve it the inventory must pass through the Exchange Company.

 

[GregT]

This is the one reason that they will never amend the governing documents. As the DC program gets more mature they need the flexibility and the legal distinction will be necessary. As a legacy points owner, you will never own and have direct access to what the trust owners own. Trust owners will never have access to weeks inventory. As more inventory is added to the trust and more high point trust owners come along, they want the ability to hold back specific inventory for trust owners only.

I suspect as more and more points are sold and more and more inventory makes it in to the trust, getting reservations at 13 or even 12 months out of what is actual trust inventory will be harder.



I would suspect that this is what is happening. At resorts where there is a lot of trust inventory, MVCI has determined that it won't all be used by trust owners, so they deposit the inventory in to the MVCI Exchange Company very early. Kauai Lagoons is an example of this.

I also believe that reps have the ability to pull certain inventory from the trust and deposit it to the MVC Exchange Company in order to fill specific legacy reservation requests. Though all legacy points reservations will show "MVC Exchange" as in order to reserve it the inventory must pass through the Exchange Company.

Excellent explaination. Then they are NOT the same. Thus, it is misleading for them to say they are; hence they will NEVER put this in writing.

I agree -- this is a very succinct summary by Dioxide, and I also believe this is exactly what is happening.

Best,

Greg

 

[thinze3]

I guess I just don't see the complication.
Why cannot there be only one bucket?

X trust points = X inventory.
X legacy points = X legacy weeks


Start with a bucket full of trust inventory.
Every time a legacy member deposits his week, he gets DC points and the week goes into the same bucket.

EXAMPLE:
1,000,000 DC points (trust points)
400 DC weeks in bucket (trust weeks) = (2800 nights)

After a Legacy deposit:
1,002,500 DC points
401 DC weeks in bucket (2807 nights)

Anyone, at any time should be able to get any inventory from that one bucket, whether they own points from the trust or have received points from their deposit.

 

[Fasttr]

I guess I just don't see the complication.
Why cannot there be only one bucket?

Anyone, at any time should be able to get any inventory from that one bucket, whether they own points from the trust or have received points from their deposit.

If life was that simple, what would we have to TUG about??

:hysterical: