DC point increase from 2016-2017

[dioxide45]

Okay, these are estimated numbers, based on looking at the view layouts, but I think there are 340 2BR lock-offs in the three towers (173 in Moana, 124 in Kona and 42 in Naia). There appear to be 40 3BR units in the three towers (14 in Moana, 26 in Naia -- half MV and half OV).

So, to keep the numbers simple, if we assume the 2BR units add a net 100 points (300 additional points for a 1BR, offset by 200 less points for a Studio), then the components of the 2BR require an additional 1.7M points (340 units X 50 weeks x 100 points).

Then there are the reduced points from the Studios from 3BR units -- which are each 200 points less now, for a total of 400K less points (40 units X 50 weeks X 200 points).

We don't yet know what would be in the fourth tower, but it would be need to be skewed heavily to 3BR lock-offs and dedicated 2BRs, needing ~130 3BR units to cover the existing 1.3M points difference (130 units X 50 weeks X 200 points).

So, I still believe that Marriott has increased the points requirement for the component units (which appear to be ~10% increase for 1BR and ~10% decrease for a Studio) which is an interesting precedent. As Dioxide has mentioned, I'm happy to see that certain properties like MOC have fixed 1BR units already, so I think it would be harder to change the of a 1BR in MMO (MM1 is a different story).

Interesting.

Best,

Greg

I don't think the new tower would have any impact on the pricing of the current units. I don't think Marriott could even take those in to consideration when pricing these units. In the end, whether the numbers come to a net balance of zero or not. The "skim" fee to book two individual portions of the 2BR lock off units has gone up. They have gone down a little bit on the 3BR lock off, but the numbers don't show a balance.

 

[GregT]

All,

Something Dioxide said in a previous post here sparked a thought. His point was that it was easier to make the adjustments to the Ko Olina 1BR and Studio component values because there weren't dedicated MKO 1BR units that would have "firm values" because of a value ascribed when that dedicated 1BR unit was deposited to the Trust. Accordingly, Marriott had more freedom in adjusting point values to the 1BR and Studio component units.

So I was wondering what other properties that interest me also have only lock-off units and that do not have a dedicated 1BR to anchor that 1BR points requirement. Maui Ocean Club (sequel) comes to mind, but Marriott didn't tweak the 1BR and Studio values for MOC (sequel) between 2017 and 2016.

But they did for Shadow Ridge, which is a desired getaway spot for me.

Interestingly, they decreased both the 1BR and Studio points requirements. A 1BR in prime season went from 2,675 points for a week in 2016 to 2,500 in 2017. A Studio in the same period went from 1,900 points in 2016 to 1,725 in 2017. And I can't find an offsetting increase. As with MKO, the full week 2BR points values did not change at Shadow Ridge, but the components got cheaper.

Deflation. Interesting.

You may wish to think about your favorite resorts, and see if the 1BR and Studio component values are different in 2017 versus 2016 -- if so, please post the results in this thread.

Best,

Greg

 

[BigMac]

DC points increase at Ko Olina

In July 2015 I got a 1 bedroom Mountain View at Ko Olina for 2825 points. That same room has now increased to 3025 points in 2016 and 3325 points in 2017. The 2 bed and 3 bed points have not changed and actually the points for a studio have decreased slightly.
Did I miss the memo? When I signed up I thought they told me the point value for a resort/room would never increase.

 

[SueDonJ]

In July 2015 I got a 1 bedroom Mountain View at Ko Olina for 2825 points. That same room has now increased to 3025 points in 2016 and 3325 points in 2017. The 2 bed and 3 bed points have not changed and actually the points for a studio have decreased slightly.
Did I miss the memo? When I signed up I thought they told me the point value for a resort/room would never increase.

They've made adjustments throughout the Points Charts every year, usually coinciding with floating holiday periods but also with respect to historical usage trends. I believe that they must offset any increases with decreases elsewhere, as you've noticed with the studio units, but am not sure if the offsets must equalize within the Points Chart of each single resort or among all combined resorts.

On page 3 of the Exchange Procedures document (bolding theirs):

"... III. PROGRAM OPERATION AND EXCHANGE POINTS ...B. 3.
... Exchange Company will review the Exchange Point Schedule at least annually and amend the Exchange Point Schedule as necessary to maintain an equitable distribution of the usage requirements based on various factors such as relative daily and seasonal demand, Accommodation capacity, size, view, and furnishings, and other valuation parameters established by Exchange Company or as might be required by law. Any such modification to the Exchange Point Schedule shall not require approval by the Program Members or amendment of these Exchange Procedures. ..."

 

[californiagirl]

That's correct, when there is an increase for one unit/season, there must be a decrease on another. This is similar to the way Disney works. With Disney there are a finite amount of points per property so one change triggers another. I'm not sure if each resort has a finite allocation of points or if the entire trust is is play. If it is the entire trust, then it would be no problem in repeatedly lowering say the mud weeks at Park City and raising the high demand holiday/summer weeks in places like Hawaii.

 

[GregT]

In July 2015 I got a 1 bedroom Mountain View at Ko Olina for 2825 points. That same room has now increased to 3025 points in 2016 and 3325 points in 2017. The 2 bed and 3 bed points have not changed and actually the points for a studio have decreased slightly.
Did I miss the memo? When I signed up I thought they told me the point value for a resort/room would never increase.

We discussed this in a previous thread somewhere, and our theory is that because they didn't increase the cost for the 2BR, which is the backbone of the points per property, they were in compliance with their commitment to not increase the points value.

However, they definitely increased the 1BR (and decreased the Studio) and resulted in a net increase in overall points for the property. I think Shadow Ridge did the same thing, in terms of increasing the 1BR point value.

I will see if I can find the thread.

Best,

Greg

 

[Mr. Vker]

I cannot tell you how many time a DC points sales person said this would never happen.....

 

[SueDonJ]

We discussed this in a previous thread somewhere, and our theory is that because they didn't increase the cost for the 2BR, which is the backbone of the points per property, they were in compliance with their commitment to not increase the points value.

However, they definitely increased the 1BR (and decreased the Studio) and resulted in a net increase in overall points for the property. I think Shadow Ridge did the same thing, in terms of increasing the 1BR point value.

I will see if I can find the thread.

Best,

Greg

Thanks, Greg. I found it and have merged the threads.

 

[Cruiser Too]

I cannot tell you how many time a DC points sales person said this would never happen.....

.

Never... say "Never" or "Always.
Tinkering with the DC points usually favors Marriott.
Now it take more "points" so... you have the honor of buying more "points".

This is EXACTLY why I LOL when offered to switch from "weeks" ownership.
A week is a week, is a week.

 

[SueDonJ]

.

Never... say "Never" or "Always.
Tinkering with the DC points usually favors Marriott.
Now it take more "points" so... you have the honor of buying more "points".

This is EXACTLY why I LOL when offered to switch from "weeks" ownership.
A week is a week, is a week.

But remember, Doug, "switching" from Weeks to DC Points would involve selling your Weeks and buying DC Trust Points. That's not at all what "enrolling" Weeks in the DC system is - enrollment allows you to keep all of your Weeks benefits and protections while being able to access the DC system if that's what you want to do, when you want to do it. One year you might use your Week in II with the II fees absorbed by your DC Club Dues fee, the next you might elect DC Points, the next use your Week at your home resort. It's all about options.

And as noted, where we've seen incidents of Points requirements being increased, we've seen those offset by decreases elsewhere. (Whether those must equalize within individual resort Points Charts or among all combined is another question, as is the lock-off variable that Greg mentions ...) So while some reservations may cost more Points year-to-year, others will cost less. Savvy DC Members scour the charts to get the most out of their Points.

I don't disagree that the tinkering benefits Marriott; that's obvious when you look at only the adjustments for high-demand floating holiday periods. But honestly, I expect them to take whatever advantage they can - the success of their business depends on it.

 

[GregT]

Okay, these are estimated numbers, based on looking at the view layouts, but I think there are 340 2BR lock-offs in the three towers (173 in Moana, 124 in Kona and 42 in Naia). There appear to be 40 3BR units in the three towers (14 in Moana, 26 in Naia -- half MV and half OV).

So, to keep the numbers simple, if we assume the 2BR units add a net 100 points (300 additional points for a 1BR, offset by 200 less points for a Studio), then the components of the 2BR require an additional 1.7M points (340 units X 50 weeks x 100 points).

Then there are the reduced points from the Studios from 3BR units -- which are each 200 points less now, for a total of 400K less points (40 units X 50 weeks X 200 points).

We don't yet know what would be in the fourth tower, but it would be need to be skewed heavily to 3BR lock-offs and dedicated 2BRs, needing ~130 3BR units to cover the existing 1.3M points difference (130 units X 50 weeks X 200 points).

So, I still believe that Marriott has increased the points requirement for the component units (which appear to be ~10% increase for 1BR and ~10% decrease for a Studio) which is an interesting precedent. As Dioxide has mentioned, I'm happy to see that certain properties like MOC have fixed 1BR units already, so I think it would be harder to change the of a 1BR in MMO (MM1 is a different story).

Interesting.

Best,

Greg

I read some of my old threads and I do not know why TUGgers put up with me.

 

[Cruiser Too]

Thanks for the additional info but...
I'm happy, happy, happy being a member of the Classic weeks program.

Doug

 

[SueDonJ]

I read some of my old threads and I do not know why TUGgers put up with me.

Other than you bringing math to every other thread I love reading you!

 

[m61376]

I read some of my old threads and I do not know why TUGgers put up with me.

:rofl:

 

[mjm1]

In July 2015 I got a 1 bedroom Mountain View at Ko Olina for 2825 points. That same room has now increased to 3025 points in 2016 and 3325 points in 2017. The 2 bed and 3 bed points have not changed and actually the points for a studio have decreased slightly.
Did I miss the memo? When I signed up I thought they told me the point value for a resort/room would never increase.

I guess I'm not surprised since the 1BR is likely in higher demand than a studio. I know when we stay there, we prefer the 1BR over the studio. I imagine the same thing could/would happen at other resorts if their experience is higher demand for the larger side.

Mike

 

[cp73]

Can you assume then they will continue raising the one bedroom points and lowering the lockout points until the demand equalizes and people are indifferent as to whether they stay in a one bedroom vs a studio due to the point difference? Probably. Maybe by 2020 it will costs 100 points for a week in a lockout.

 

[Cruiser Too]

Can you assume then they will continue raising the one bedroom points and lowering the lockout points until the demand equalizes and people are indifferent as to whether they stay in a one bedroom vs a studio due to the point difference? Probably. Maybe by 2020 it will costs 100 points for a week in a lockout.

I can't imagine anyone being "indifferent" about staying in a studio or a one-Bdrm. I prefer a one-Bdrm, over a studio, about 100 out of 100 times.

 

[taterhed]

yes, I'd like to reserve a 1br and 2 studios please? Adjacent please.

 

[SueDonJ]

yes, I'd like to reserve a 1br and 2 studios please? Adjacent please.

But will they guarantee adjacent placements? You can hope but you can't expect it.

 

[taterhed]

It was a joke really, three bedroom discount

sent from my cell phone...

 

[pjohnston99]

Hi, I'm new here.... I'm concerned about point degradation over time. We bought a 2-bedroom in Orlando under the old system, and bought an additional 1,000 points when we became an enrolled owner. I'm seeing increases in points required, and in fact, our original unit gives us 2,175 points when we convert to points, but at the same resort, same season we own, it is 2,500 if we were trading for it. Shouldn't Marriott be giving us the equivalent points? Or are we just SOL?

Also want to point out that when we purchased, we got 100,000 Marriott Rewards points when we chose that option, and it was down to 80,000 last time (maybe less now).

Trading through Interval seems to be the best deal.

 

[JIMinNC]

Hi, I'm new here.... I'm concerned about point degradation over time. We bought a 2-bedroom in Orlando under the old system, and bought an additional 1,000 points when we became an enrolled owner. I'm seeing increases in points required, and in fact, our original unit gives us 2,175 points when we convert to points, but at the same resort, same season we own, it is 2,500 if we were trading for it. Shouldn't Marriott be giving us the equivalent points? Or are we just SOL?

The gap between the election value (2175) and the amount required to book (2500) has been there since the inception of the DC system. I've read some explanations as to why Marriott does this, but can't specifically recall for sure the reasons. My recollection was it may be because of the wastage that results when people use points to book shorter than 7 night says, leaving isolated days here and there orphaned and unused.

 

[vacationtime1]

Hi, I'm new here.... I'm concerned about point degradation over time. We bought a 2-bedroom in Orlando under the old system, and bought an additional 1,000 points when we became an enrolled owner. I'm seeing increases in points required, and in fact, our original unit gives us 2,175 points when we convert to points, but at the same resort, same season we own, it is 2,500 if we were trading for it. Shouldn't Marriott be giving us the equivalent points? Or are we just SOL?

Also want to point out that when we purchased, we got 100,000 Marriott Rewards points when we chose that option, and it was down to 80,000 last time (maybe less now).

Trading through Interval seems to be the best deal.

You can still reserve a week in your season; it must be the same size unit as you own during the season you own. It would be a weeks reservation, not a points reservation (you would still have your 1000 additional points available).

But you are correct that Marriott takes a "skim" when you opt for points rather than using your week. The good news is that that is entirely under your control.

If you use the search function on this BBS using the terms "skim" and "Marriott", you will find numerous discussions on the subject.

 

[JIMinNC]

Hi, I'm new here.... I'm concerned about point degradation over time. We bought a 2-bedroom in Orlando under the old system, and bought an additional 1,000 points when we became an enrolled owner. I'm seeing increases in points required, and in fact, our original unit gives us 2,175 points when we convert to points, but at the same resort, same season we own, it is 2,500 if we were trading for it. Shouldn't Marriott be giving us the equivalent points? Or are we just SOL?

See this thread: http://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/need-an-explanation-on-points.243195/#post-1899005

It provides a good discussion on the "skim" and can provide insight into theories on why you only get 2175 points for a week that costs 2500 to book.

 

[TheTimeTraveler]

Another way Marriott looks at it: "Profit".



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