Dazed and confused about HGV Max

[ALMCC22]

We just (almost) bought 11,500 points in the Hawaii Collection during a presentation at the Kaanapali Beach Resort. We are from Atlanta and probably would not make the trip out here to Hawaii very often, opting instead to vacation in Europe or the continental US. We had to leave early to catch a flight so we didn’t actually execute any documents, and I used the opportunity to read up on this sight. I have to say that I’m far more confused now than before. Can you please help me with the questions below before I execute the Docusign docs.

Some of the advice I have seen here:

• Veterans here often tell buyers to buy where they want to vacation: I don’t understand this advice because I thought we are buying points that are usable anywhere.
• I’ve seen different MF/pt ratios mentioned. Ours would be about 0.21/pt in the Hawaii collection. Do I understand if we bought elsewhere then the MF cost might be lower, but (referring back to question 1) the points would be equally usable wherever we choose to vacation? That would sound attractive, but it doesn’t make sense to me that you’re essentially getting the same benefit each year for half the price (and all within the Hilton system). They can’t be that foolish.
• I understand that resale might be lower cost per point, but I can’t find a direct comparison. People talk about odd years tied to a specific resort/room size, which doesn’t align with my understanding of the system we’re buying into. I also see people accidentally buying Diamond points (whatever those are). Our cost/pt would be about $4.25/pt with 115k bonus points usable in the first two years. If I buy resale points, I wouldn’t have HGV Max access, but the MF cost might be lower, right?
• The sales guy said that the points don’t necessarily pass to our heirs if they don’t want them.

Any help you guys can provide will be greatly appreciated!

 

[SmithOp]

First, you were being sold HVC points in a trust, not a HGVC deed.

You can book your owned HGVC unit at 12 months. It's 9 months for other owners, and 6 months for MAX. Available unit choices are much better at 12-9 months, so own difficult to book locations.

Point cost is different in the HVC trust, don't confuse it with HGVC deeds that vary maintenance fee to point ratios based on location, unit size, (std, plus, or premier) and season.

Once again, you can't compare HVC trust points to HGVC deeded points.

Anyone can refuse an inheritance.

This should get moved to the HVC forum.

Hilton Vacation Club - Diamond Resorts

Discussions about Hilton Vacation Club Timeshare system and previous Diamond Resorts ownerships/timeshares

tugbbs.com

 

[dioxide45]

I understand that resale might be lower cost per point, but I can’t find a direct comparison. People talk about odd years tied to a specific resort/room size, which doesn’t align with my understanding of the system we’re buying into. I also see people accidentally buying Diamond points (whatever those are). Our cost/pt would be about $4.25/pt with 115k bonus points usable in the first two years. If I buy resale points, I wouldn’t have HGV Max access, but the MF cost might be lower, right?

What they were trying to pitch to you was Diamond points, not HGVC. You were also at a former Diamond property. I beleive the Hawaii Collection can reserve any property within the collection at 13 months, then any other property within the DRI The Club at 10 months and then Embarc and HGVC properties through HGV Max at 6 months.

You really need to try and understand what it is you want to buy and where you want to travel. This would help you determine which program is best. The Diamond collections (Hawaii Collection included) have no real resale value. They are worth $0 on the resale market. Resale points from these collections can only be used to reserve properties in their respective collection. No HGV Max and no 10-month booking with resale collections.

HGVC resale deeds do come with points that can be used to reserve other HGVC properties at 9 months through the club. Don't confuse HGVC and HVC as the same thing. They are not. They are very different. You were being pitched HVC. Most people here prefer HGVC as the quality is better and the better resorts/seasons have higher resale value.

 

[ALMCC22]

That’s helpful. Now I remember seeing references to “trust points”. It looks like our sales document has us specifically buying into a a Hawaii trust. Aside from the booking window differences (sales guy said 13 months window for Hawaii and 10 months for all HGV locations including Bluegreen) does it matter where one buys these?

 

[ALMCC22]

“You really need to try and understand what it is you want to buy and where you want to travel.” This sounds like very good advice, @dioxide45

• We don’t have a favorite/home resort. Part of the attraction for us is vacationing in different places in Europe, the Caribbean, the continental US, etc. Hawaii is just too far to fly from Atlanta so that would be an infrequent destination.
• Assume we don’t care about resale value. If it’s worth it to us, then we’ll use it and either hand it down or abandon it when we’re done.
• “What we want to buy” is the confusing bit. We want to buy flexibility and simplified access to a wider range of destinations than we know now. Better value over the medium to long term would be nice, too. Does the HVC/Diamond points plan address that, at the $4.25/pt price point, better than resale HGVC points?
• You said that HGVC quality is better. What does that mean? Access to resorts not available to HVC / Diamond points owners like we might become?

 

[HuskerATL]

We are from Atlanta and probably would not make the trip out here to Hawaii very often, opting instead to vacation in Europe or the continental US. We had to leave early to catch a flight so we didn’t actually execute any documents, and I used the opportunity to read up on this sight. I have to say that I’m far more confused now than before. Can you please help me with the questions below before I execute the Docusign docs.

We are the same....first, do not sign. Do not buy this.

The Trust points are expensive. I would opt for a deed and we can talk you through good resale options. Ideally, you are paying 0.10 or less for your MFs/pt. For comparison, we have paid under $30k for about 100k HGVC points. We have owned in HGVC for over 20 years and really like the system but there is a game to it. Don't buy these trust points and do more research...then decide.

 

[ljmiii]

We don’t have a favorite/home resort. Part of the attraction for us is vacationing in different places in Europe, the Caribbean, the continental US, etc. Hawaii is just too far to fly from Atlanta so that would be an infrequent destination.

Veterans here often tell buyers to buy where they want to vacation: I don’t understand this advice because I thought we are buying points that are usable anywhere...

One of the great lies timeshare salesmen sell is that owning points allow for inexpensive anywhere, anytime vacations.

Yes, they are "usable anywhere"...you just may never be able to actually use them to get the reservations you want. Particularly in Europe and the Caribbean - if you want to summer in Italy or Portugal or Scotland or winter in Barbados you really want to buy there...otherwise you've bought something hoping lightning will strike.

It is true that "Buy where you want to stay" is less true for HGVC than many other timeshare systems in that if you want to stay at one of HGVC's major destinations - O'ahu, the Big Island, Carlsbad (CA), Las Vegas, Myrtle Beach (SC), Orlando, and maybe NYC there is almost always plenty of availability at 276 days (90/60 days in NYC). For those locations you can just buy the least expensive deed anywhere in the system (taking into account both initial price and MFs).

You said that HGVC quality is better. What does that mean?

Just that. HGVC is HGV's "Upper Upscale" brand - think Hilton or Embassy Suites equivalent. HVC is HGV's "Upper Midscale/Upscale" brand - think Hilton Garden, DoubleTree, and Hampton Inn. And bHC is HGV's "Luxury" brand - think Conrad or Waldorf Astoria (though bHCs do fall about 1/2 a star short).

(HGV's newly acquired Bluegreen is "Midscale to Upper Midscale" - Tru or Hampton Inn).

 

[GT75]

I wouldn’t recommend that you “sign” the documents until you understand exactly what you are purchasing. First off, you should know that the HVC trust point product has no resale value. It will be very hard to get rid of that TS. Secondly, the salesperson made it sound like you would be able to do anything with this purchase. That isn’t true. The salesperson will also make confusing (maybe even misleading or lies) in order to get a sale. They certainly aren’t going to correct you when you get confused. HVC can book 13 months in their purchased HVC collection and 10 months in the other HVC collections but only 6-months in HGVC and probably BG.

Btw, I moved your thread to HVC forum. The salesperson also made this sound like one TS system. It is actually 4 different TS systems each with their own rules.

 

[ljmiii]

Part of the attraction for us is vacationing in different places in Europe, the Caribbean, the continental US, etc...

I should have more explicitly added that if you do see HVC resorts you like in Europe or the Continental US and are willing to accept the higher MFs that come with HVC Trust points, you should look into 'buying' points at one of the HVC Collections resale. Many (most? all?) of them have owners willing to give them away for $1.

There are five HVC Collections, the Hawaii one you were offered and the U.S. Collection, California Collection, European Collection, and the Cabo Azul Collection (a single resort collection). If you 'buy' them resale you are limited to booking at resorts in only that collection...but the best units/resorts/dates go at 13 months anyway so being able to book other collections is only so useful.

 

[HuskerATL]

I should have more explicitly added that if you do see HVC resorts you like in Europe or the Continental US and are willing to accept the higher MFs that come with HVC Trust points, you should look into 'buying' points at one of the HVC Collections resale. Many (most? all?) of them have owners willing to give them away for $1.

There are five HVC Collections, the Hawaii one you were offered and the U.S. Collection, California Collection, European Collection, and the Cabo Azul Collection (a single resort collection). If you 'buy' them resale you are limited to booking at resorts in only that collection...but the best units/resorts/dates go at 13 months anyway so being able to book other collections is only so useful.

Or, look at other options to get access to them...

 

[geist1223]

The Hawaiian Collection has some of the highest Maintenance Fees of all the HVC/DRI Collections. There are only 3 Resorts in the Hawaiian Collection in Hawaii. The other Hawaiian Collection Resorts are on the Mainland. Several years ago with a small purchase we were able to switch to the Cabo Azul Collection (1 Resort) that has the lowest Maintenance Fees from the Hawaiian Collection. We have had no problem Booking into the Hawaiian Collection since then to include Ocean Front at the Point of Poipu. HVC/DRI is one of the Timeshare Organizations you do not want to buy on the resell market because of the limitations on the use of Points.

 

[jp10558]

HVC/DRI is one of the Timeshare Organizations you do not want to buy.

There, "fixed" it for you. I don't think any timeshare is worth retail price, so if it isn't useful resale, I really need to understand the compelling case for buying it at all. DRI has IMHO basically no reason to buy it:

Want to go to Hawaii? Use any TS system, plus RCI or II which sometimes can book DRI properties. Europe isn't really an American TS system destination IMO - you're very likely to be looking in RCI/II and the vast majority aren't in or near cities when I've looked around. They're usable for beach / country vacations, but TBH, if I want to sit on a beach I don't need to deal with flying to Europe to do it - YMMV of course. I suppose in comparison to Hawaii, flying to Europe would make sense, but IDK.

I think the OP REALLY should go to the new timeshare forum and fill out the "What should I buy" template.

 

[ALMCC22]

So my sales guy texted me last night: He said we would have 13 months booking window for Hawaii, 10 months in all HGV locations, including Bluegreen. He said all Diamond resorts and Bluegreen properties have become HGV properties. Those were his exact words, and I assume we will find that in our documents (or we certainly wouldn’t sign). Is that consistent with your advice above? (Sorry, but all the acronyms and plan variants are still very confusing)

The real bottom line, though, is flexibility. A couple of you said that it is unlikely that we would actually be able to book weeks in Europe or the Caribbean with our points. If that’s true and availability is that tight, then this is a non-starter for us.

 

[HuskerATL]

So my sales guy texted me last night: He said we would have 13 months booking window for Hawaii, 10 months in all HGV locations, including Bluegreen. He said all Diamond resorts and Bluegreen properties have become HGV properties. Those were his exact words, and I assume we will find that in our documents (or we certainly wouldn’t sign). Is that consistent with your advice above? (Sorry, but all the acronyms and plan variants are still very confusing)

The real bottom line, though, is flexibility. A couple of you said that it is unlikely that we would actually be able to book weeks in Europe or the Caribbean with our points. If that’s true and availability is that tight, then this is a non-starter for us.

Look at the private message that I sent you.

HGV is the umbrella company. Under that umbrella, you have the HGVClub (HGVC and by Hilton Club), The Club (Diamond and HVC), Embarc, and the Blue Green. Look at the HGVC portal guide in the tips sticky so see the reservation graphic in there.

You will have The Club booking windows for those properties but 6 months into HGVC because you would be in Max. As far as I know, Blue Green isn't available to book yet but would probably be like HGVC.

You will pay way more than you need to for this so I would not buy it.

 

[geist1223]

jp10558 we strongly disagree with your Opinion of DRI. We love Point at Poipu, Cabo Azul, Royal Regency (Vincennes - Paris) etc. We tried to Exchange into Royal Rengency for several years (shoulder seasons) with no luck. Joined DRI and Booked two DRI Resorts in France for 7 months later and one was Royal Rengency. if DRI is so bad why did Hilton buy control?

 

[dayooper]

So my sales guy texted me last night: He said we would have 13 months booking window for Hawaii, 10 months in all HGV locations, including Bluegreen. He said all Diamond resorts and Bluegreen properties have become HGV properties. Those were his exact words, and I assume we will find that in our documents (or we certainly wouldn’t sign). Is that consistent with your advice above? (Sorry, but all the acronyms and plan variants are still very confusing)

The real bottom line, though, is flexibility. A couple of you said that it is unlikely that we would actually be able to book weeks in Europe or the Caribbean with our points. If that’s true and availability is that tight, then this is a non-starter for us.

Look at the private message that I sent you.

HGV is the umbrella company. Under that umbrella, you have the HGVClub (HGVC and by Hilton Club), The Club (Diamond and HVC), Embarc, and the Blue Green. Look at the HGVC portal guide in the tips sticky so see the reservation graphic in there.

You will have The Club booking windows for those properties but 6 months into HGVC because you would be in Max. As far as I know, Blue Green isn't available to book yet but would probably be like HGVC.

You will pay way more than you need to for this so I would not buy it.

The salesman may be correct in the fact that BlueGreen might have the majority of their resorts in HVC. In a previous investors call, HGV CEO Mark Wang had said that a select few of BlueGreen will be rebranded HGVC while the rest (or the majority of the rest) will be rebranded HVC. That doesn't mean that they will be bookable in the normal club booking window. The former Embarc properties were rebranded as HGVC but are only available via Max at 6 months. Only Embarc weeks available in Max are those that Max Embarc members trade and those are few and far between.

I most definitely would not purchase from HGV based on what a salesman says. They are known to lie, stretch the truth and omit pertinent information in their presentations to potential victims . . . errrr . . . clients. Anything for a sale.

 

[HuskerATL]

jp10558 we strongly disagree with your Opinion of DRI. We love Point at Poipu, Cabo Azul, Royal Regency (Vincennes - Paris) etc. We tried to Exchange into Royal Rengency for several years (shoulder seasons) with no luck. Joined DRI and Booked two DRI Resorts in France for 7 months later and one was Royal Rengency. if DRI is so bad why did Hilton buy control?

There are decent properties but also some that definitely aren't HGVC standards. We get access to them via DEX and have been exploring them. One common theme so far is that they are dated and just not quite the same as HGVC, not all though.. Cabo Azul is nice.

I guess it is each owners perspective. We have been owners in HGVC for over 20 years and used to those properties so when we stay in one that isn't that, we notice. For example, we just returned from The Cove and also visited the Daytona property. They definitely aren't the same level as the HGVC FL properties.

HGV is the one that put the graphic out on luxury levels with bHC as the highest, then HGVC, then The Club, and then Blue Green. HGV wants a range of options like Hilton does with WA down to Hampton Inns.

 

[HuskerATL]

BlueGreen will be rebranded HGVC

There is going to be Blue Green properties rebranded to HGVC? That is surprising.

 

[HuskerATL]

Here is the link to one of the presentations but the are others on this page also, https://s27.q4cdn.com/757306400/files/doc_presentations/2024/Jun/29/final-hgv-general-deck-jun24.pdf

Blue Green would be below HVC and, I guess those DRI properties that haven't been rebranded HVC.

 

[ALMCC22]

The important implication in many of these posts is that the six-month booking window in HGV Max is not worth much. In practice, how difficult is it to book non-peak weeks in Europe, the Caribbean or US places other than Orlando/Hawaii/LV? We normally book our vacations 4-6 months out.

 

[GT75]

OP, I think that we have all given you good advice. It certainly is your money to believe whoever you want. Just remember one important fact, we are not getting a commission from whatever decision that you make.

 

[GT75]

If you are planning on booking any TS in the 4-6 month time period, then I would suggest that you don’t purchase a TS. The reason is that you will only see very limited inventory.

 

[ALMCC22]

If you are planning on booking any TS in the 4-6 month time period, then I would suggest that you don’t purchase a TS. The reason is that you will only see very limited inventory.

OK. Thank you. I think this is the most salient point for us. Maybe that planning window will change for us after we are fully retired, but for now that’s our reality.

Thank you to everyone for the wealth of advice.

 

[HuskerATL]

If you are planning on booking any TS in the 4-6 month time period, then I would suggest that you don’t purchase a TS. The reason is that you will only see very limited inventory.

Leftovers and cancellations.

You can get lucky to get cancellations that match your dates, unit type requirements, and location but to ensure that you get what you want, you need to book further out.

 

[dayooper]

There is going to be Blue Green properties rebranded to HGVC? That is surprising.

It was select, niche places that were in locations that HGVC is isn’t (dots on a map to get HVC owners to book at 12 months). Whether or not we can book is to be determined, but I would definitely bet the not being able to book side.