Craigendarroch Lodges Purchase

[Lampshade]

Hi everyone,

I've been reading the posts on this message board for the last couple months and really appreciate all the great information available. My wife and I have learned quite a bit about the HGVC program and, using information from all of you, have decided to make a purchase at Craigendarroch Lodges in Scotland through the official HGVC resale office there.

Before we complete the purchase (we're on day 19 of our 21 day "cooling off" period), I figured it would be worthwhile to have you look at our purchase to QA it. I also figured this information would be useful to anyone else looking to purchase through the Scotland property since most of the posts about Craigendarroch are at least a year old at this point.

We're purchasing 5x contracts in various weeks, all of them platinum season and worth 11,200 HGVC points each. This is a total of 56,000 HGVC points which qualifies us for Elite Premier status. I double-checked this with Andrew at the Lodges and he confirmed that Craigendarroch does still qualify towards Elite statuses but that they will not at some time in the future. They still didn't know when that would happen, but all previous purchases would be grandfathered into the program.

The total purchase price for the five contracts is GBP 24,000 plus closing costs of GBP 195 per contract for a total of GBP 24,975. At the current exchange rate, that works out to about $29,500 or about $0.53/point.

We additionally had to pay for the initial HGVC membership fee which is GBP 298, but they were able to waive GBP 293 fee that would normally be applied to each contract if adding to an existing membership. We didn't have to pay this since we are new members (saved us about $1700).

Maintenance fees are GBP 730/year ($860) per contract for a total of about $4,300 (about $.08/point).

So, in summary:

5x 2 BR Platinum contracts (56,000 total Club Points)	$28,320
Closing costs (total for 5 contracts)	$1,150
Initial HGVC membership fee	$350
Maintenance Fees per contract	$860

From what I've seen on some of the various timeshare resale sites, these contracts are pretty competitive with the overall resale market. That's before you take into account they are direct sales from HGVC and count towards Elite status. I asked about HGVMax and was told that, officially, Craigendarroch sales don't count towards that program. However, Andrew said that other owners have received emails welcoming them to HGVMax and I also received a similar email after we put in our purchase order. We'll see what happens with that (we have not paid anything extra towards HGVMax).

My wife and I have been DVC owners for several years now and are pretty familiar with the timeshare experience. We're looking forward to the additional locations that HGVC will bring, particularly Las Vegas (where we're from) and Orlando (where we visit frequently, hence the DVC ownership).

So, thoughts on this pending purchase? I'm also happy to answer any questions people have regarding the purchasing process at Craigendarroch. It's very straightforward, I did everything over email. If you're interested, their website and contact info is www.craigendarroch.com/sales

Thanks!

 

[HuskerATL]

It looks like you jumped in with both feet.. Welcome to the group.

That is a bit more per contract than we paid through Andrew. Ours were about $2k each but were 1 bedroom platinum except one 2 bedroom. We paid about 12k GBP for 46,400 points so our cost was 0.259/point (without fees, just purchase price) and yours is 0.429. We already had other HGV weeks so this put us at EP. That is great that they could waive the 293 GBP to add the points to HGVC. I would verify that. You can buy and use weeks at Craig without being in HGV but to be in HGV, you have to pay the 293 GBP fee per contract. Andrew and Donna are very good so they would know but this surprises me.

Now, the good part about your purchase is that your MFs are just a little more than ours but you have 9,600 more points.

Make sure to pay with the Hilton Aspire Amex so that it will count for 14x HH and you will get the $250 resort credit. If you don't have this card, get it. You will get the nice chunk of bonus HH points with this purchase plus the 14x. Also, if any of them have 2022 points, you will need to pay the 2022 MFs when you pay for the purchase price, otherwise, you won't pay until December/January for 2023 points.

 

[HuskerATL]

Just to add, once you are past the cooling off period and pay Donna, it will be a week or two before the points show up...well, for me it was but I had an account. It may take a bit longer for you since you are new and HGV will need to set up the account. These are auto booked so you will need to go into your account and cancel the reservation if you want the points. Also, Craig has the option to rent out your week so you can reach out to them to do that as well, https://www.craigendarroch.com/rental/ but you need to do that before you cancel your week and get the points. You can also cancel the week up to two years out and book in 2023 with 2024 points. We have cancelled all of our 2023 and 2024 weeks except the back to back weeks that we have in the same lodge in 2024 for a potential trip there.

 

[MattnTricia]

Hi everyone,

I've been reading the posts on this message board for the last couple months and really appreciate all the great information available. My wife and I have learned quite a bit about the HGVC program and, using information from all of you, have decided to make a purchase at Craigendarroch Lodges in Scotland through the official HGVC resale office there.

Before we complete the purchase (we're on day 19 of our 21 day "cooling off" period), I figured it would be worthwhile to have you look at our purchase to QA it. I also figured this information would be useful to anyone else looking to purchase through the Scotland property since most of the posts about Craigendarroch are at least a year old at this point.

We're purchasing 5x contracts in various weeks, all of them platinum season and worth 11,200 HGVC points each. This is a total of 56,000 HGVC points which qualifies us for Elite Premier status. I double-checked this with Andrew at the Lodges and he confirmed that Craigendarroch does still qualify towards Elite statuses but that they will not at some time in the future. They still didn't know when that would happen, but all previous purchases would be grandfathered into the program.

The total purchase price for the five contracts is GBP 24,000 plus closing costs of GBP 195 per contract for a total of GBP 24,975. At the current exchange rate, that works out to about $29,500 or about $0.53/point.

We additionally had to pay for the initial HGVC membership fee which is GBP 298, but they were able to waive GBP 293 fee that would normally be applied to each contract if adding to an existing membership. We didn't have to pay this since we are new members (saved us about $1700).

Maintenance fees are GBP 730/year ($860) per contract for a total of about $4,300 (about $.08/point).

So, in summary:

5x 2 BR Platinum contracts (56,000 total Club Points)	$28,320
Closing costs per contract	$1,150
Initial HGVC membership fee	$350
Maintenance Fees per contract	$860

From what I've seen on some of the various timeshare resale sites, these contracts are pretty competitive with the overall resale market. That's before you take into account they are direct sales from HGVC and count towards Elite status. I asked about HGVMax and was told that, officially, Craigendarroch sales don't count towards that program. However, Andrew said that other owners have received emails welcoming them to HGVMax and I also received a similar email after we put in our purchase order. We'll see what happens with that (we have not paid anything extra towards HGVMax).

My wife and I have been DVC owners for several years now and are pretty familiar with the timeshare experience. We're looking forward to the additional locations that HGVC will bring, particularly Las Vegas (where we're from) and Orlando (where we visit frequently, hence the DVC ownership).

So, thoughts on this pending purchase? I'm also happy to answer any questions people have regarding the purchasing process at Craigendarroch. It's very straightforward, I did everything over email. If you're interested, their website and contact info is www.craigendarroch.com/sales

Thanks!

Well Done!!!!

 

[Nowaker]

So, thoughts on this pending purchase?

It's all good today. Just be aware a currency conversion can fluctuate and make these deeds cost you more than mediocre US deeds.

For example, when 1 GBP cost 1.50 USD 6 years ago, it would be $1290 MF per 11,200 pts, or $0.115 MFpp, in line with cheap Vegas deeds (e.g. Blvd 2 BR Gold, Trump STP, Elara 1 BR Grand Gold, etc.)
And when 1 GBP cost 2 USD 13 years ago, it would be $1720 MF per 11,200 pts, or $0.154 MFpp in line with expensive Orlando/Hawaiian deeds (e.g. Kohala or Bay Club 2 BR Platinum).

For this reason, I would myself diversify between different deeds. E.g. half UK half US. However, you're also getting Elite, which you wouldn't get with US resales. So there's that additional benefit you'd be giving up for better diversification.

So here's a question you need to answer for yourself: if crap hits the fan, and 1 GBP is worth 2 USD, can your Elite level justify MFpp going from $0.076 to $0.154?

Personally, I'd say "yes". No reservation fees - assuming 4x $59 a year - is $236 saved. So that covers 1/3 of your sudden MF increase. Added to $250 in annual Lyft credit from/to HGVC/airports makes 2/3 of the MF increase recouped. Effectively, making your MFpp not $0.154 but $0.10, which is in line with good US deeds like Flamingo 2 BR, and little worse than the best US deeds like Blvd 2 BR Platinum.

I'd get these 5 UK deeds to reach the highest Elite tier, and then add US resales on top in the future if need be.

 

[HuskerATL]

It's all good today. Just be aware a currency conversion can fluctuate and make these deeds cost you more than mediocre US deeds.

For example, when 1 GBP cost 1.50 USD 6 years ago, it would be $1290 MF per 11,200 pts, or $0.115 MFpp, in line with cheap Vegas deeds (e.g. Blvd 2 BR Gold, Trump STP, Elara 1 BR Grand Gold, etc.)
And when 1 GBP cost 2 USD 13 years ago, it would be $1720 MF per 11,200 pts, or $0.154 MFpp in line with expensive Orlando/Hawaiian deeds (e.g. Kohala or Bay Club 2 BR Platinum).

For this reason, I would myself diversify between different deeds. E.g. half UK half US. However, you're also getting Elite, which you wouldn't get with US resales. So there's that additional benefit you'd be giving up for better diversification.

So here's a question you need to answer for yourself: if crap hits the fan, and 1 GBP is worth 2 USD, can your Elite level justify MFpp going from $0.076 to $0.154?

Personally, I'd say "yes". No reservation fees - assuming 4x $59 a year - is $236 saved. So that covers 1/3 of your sudden MF increase. Added to $250 in annual Lyft credit from/to HGVC/airports makes 2/3 of the MF increase recouped. Effectively, making your MFpp not $0.154 but $0.10, which is in line with good US deeds like Flamingo 2 BR, and little worse than the best US deeds like Blvd 2 BR Platinum.

I'd get these 5 UK deeds to reach the highest Elite tier, and then add US resales on top in the future if need be.

And no guest cert fees, 30% discount on OS, conversion to HH isn't terrible since the MFs are currently cheap because of the exchange rate, and potential for unit upgrades...I have gotten some...

 

[Nowaker]

Yeah, these could be a factor for some folks too. Not for me though:

And no guest cert fees

I'd have no use for this one given my kids are too young.

30% discount on OS

I'd have no use for this one given my low UK/LV MFpp.

conversion to HH isn't terrible

I'd have no use for this one given my HH pts balance of 1.1M points after draining Amex signup bonuses on 2x Surpass (wife and I), 2x Regular, 1x Aspire, 1x Business. There's still one more Aspire to apply for and drain 150K HH SUB from.

potential for unit upgrades

That's something I'd definitely welcome if it happens. I can see it doable in off-season Vegas (which always has vacancy) - it's nice to be upgraded from no view to great view, or nice shower rather than a tub with a curtain (as a European living in the US, I can't fathom how these half-tubs and curtains are a thing here... gross).

 

[Lampshade]

It looks like you jumped in with both feet.. Welcome to the group.

That is a bit more per contract than we paid through Andrew. Ours were about $2k each but were 1 bedroom platinum except one 2 bedroom. We paid about 12k GBP for 46,400 points so our cost was 0.259/point (without fees, just purchase price) and yours is 0.429. We already had other HGV weeks so this put us at EP. That is great that they could waive the 293 GBP to add the points to HGVC. I would verify that. You can buy and use weeks at Craig without being in HGV but to be in HGV, you have to pay the 293 GBP fee per contract. Andrew and Donna are very good so they would know but this surprises me.

Now, the good part about your purchase is that your MFs are just a little more than ours but you have 9,600 more points.

Make sure to pay with the Hilton Aspire Amex so that it will count for 14x HH and you will get the $250 resort credit. If you don't have this card, get it. You will get the nice chunk of bonus HH points with this purchase plus the 14x. Also, if any of them have 2022 points, you will need to pay the 2022 MFs when you pay for the purchase price, otherwise, you won't pay until December/January for 2023 points.

Yes, Andrew said that if we were already HGVC members that we’d have to pay that additional fee per contract, but that since we weren’t they could add all of the contracts to the HGVC membership at the time of our joining for only the new member fee. Pretty convenient.

Did you pay the listed price for your contracts when purchasing from Craigendarroch? It seemed they were already very reasonable so we did not do any haggling. I suppose we could have saved a few hundred dollars if we had, but like you said, our MFpp rate is pretty good.

We definitely do have the Amex Aspire card and I’ve already talked to Donna about paying with it. That should net us about 420,000 HHonors points for “free.”

All of the contracts we are purchasing are already past the use week for 2022 so we won’t be able to use any of the points until next year. But like you mentioned, that also means we don’t owe any MFs this year. I assume that we should be able to borrow next year’s points for use this year if we wanted to make a reservation? We already have a couple DVC trips coming up so we may not have the time anyway.

 

[Lampshade]

Just to add, once you are past the cooling off period and pay Donna, it will be a week or two before the points show up...well, for me it was but I had an account. It may take a bit longer for you since you are new and HGV will need to set up the account. These are auto booked so you will need to go into your account and cancel the reservation if you want the points. Also, Craig has the option to rent out your week so you can reach out to them to do that as well, https://www.craigendarroch.com/rental/ but you need to do that before you cancel your week and get the points. You can also cancel the week up to two years out and book in 2023 with 2024 points. We have cancelled all of our 2023 and 2024 weeks except the back to back weeks that we have in the same lodge in 2024 for a potential trip there.

Andrew did go over the requirement to cancel the pre-booked weeks in order to convert them to Club Points but I didn’t realize you could do that up to two years in advance. That’s great to know since we don’t plan on visiting Scotland in the near future, although we probably will at some point. Thanks!

 

[HuskerATL]

We have already used 4 guest certs this year for friends, been upgraded 4 times this year, bought one open season which was a pretty good deal with the 30% off. We have not converted to HH but could with the low MFs, at the moment, and wouldn't be a bad deal with 5th day free Hiltons when using points... This would be a good approach for Europe though.

 

[HuskerATL]

I assume that we should be able to borrow next year’s points for use this year if we wanted to make a reservation

Definitely start to do this if you need to travel. Try to be in a point deficit. I am booking 2023 stays with 2024 points right now. Borrowing is free but saving/converting costs.

Did you pay the listed price for your contracts when purchasing from Craigendarroch?

Yes, I didn't haggle but it seems like the prices have gone up since we bought. Normally, it is the other way around...further into the year, people reduce the prices to dump them before MFs are due. Another person that I know did offer less and the owners took it so you can do that. We didn't. Some of ours were less than $2k so I was okay with the price. I figure these are cheap enough that I can just give them away if we decide we no longer want them.

Andrew said that if we were already HGVC members that we’d have to pay that additional fee per contract

This will save you a ton. I had the 293 fee x 6....

We also had some current year points so had to pay the MFs for those. The full bill will come at the end of the year.

 

[Lampshade]

It's all good today. Just be aware a currency conversion can fluctuate and make these deeds cost you more than mediocre US deeds.

For example, when 1 GBP cost 1.50 USD 6 years ago, it would be $1290 MF per 11,200 pts, or $0.115 MFpp, in line with cheap Vegas deeds (e.g. Blvd 2 BR Gold, Trump STP, Elara 1 BR Grand Gold, etc.)
And when 1 GBP cost 2 USD 13 years ago, it would be $1720 MF per 11,200 pts, or $0.154 MFpp in line with expensive Orlando/Hawaiian deeds (e.g. Kohala or Bay Club 2 BR Platinum).

For this reason, I would myself diversify between different deeds. E.g. half UK half US. However, you're also getting Elite, which you wouldn't get with US resales. So there's that additional benefit you'd be giving up for better diversification.

So here's a question you need to answer for yourself: if crap hits the fan, and 1 GBP is worth 2 USD, can your Elite level justify MFpp going from $0.076 to $0.154?

Personally, I'd say "yes". No reservation fees - assuming 4x $59 a year - is $236 saved. So that covers 1/3 of your sudden MF increase. Added to $250 in annual Lyft credit from/to HGVC/airports makes 2/3 of the MF increase recouped. Effectively, making your MFpp not $0.154 but $0.10, which is in line with good US deeds like Flamingo 2 BR, and little worse than the best US deeds like Blvd 2 BR Platinum.

I'd get these 5 UK deeds to reach the highest Elite tier, and then add US resales on top in the future if need be.

This is a great point to anyone considering purchasing in Scotland. I definitely looked at the historic GBP to USD rate and agree that it’s definitely a good rate now. As you mentioned, even if it goes back up to what it was a few years ago, that will only bring it equal to Las Vegas MF rates with the benefit of getting the Elite Premier status. I hadn‘t done the math for if it went all the way to 2:1 GPB:USD, but with all the issues with Brexit, I don’t see that happening anytime soon. Fingers crossed.

A big reason we decided to get so many points from Craigendarroch was so we could take advantage of the Elite Premier benefits. Mainly, I didn’t want to pay extra every time we wanted to use our points. We are used to DVC and the idea of having to pay fees to make reservations, bank points, or convert points to HHonors points would probably make us less inclined to use them. Also, I was concerned that we would eventually not be able to buy points from Craigendarroch that were Elite eligible which is why we bought enough to get to Elite Premier right away. We could have bought fewer now and just added more later, but if future purchases were no longer Elite eligible, our only option would be to purchase direct which would definitely not be worth the extra cost for the Elite benefits.

 

[Lampshade]

And no guest cert fees, 30% discount on OS, conversion to HH isn't terrible since the MFs are currently cheap because of the exchange rate, and potential for unit upgrades...I have gotten some...

Could you elaborate on some of these? I’ve read the HGVC club rules and looked at the Elite Premier benefits, but apparently am not familiar with everything. What’s the 30% discount on OS? Does Elite Premier get a different conversion rate for HHonors points? Thanks!

 

[HuskerATL]

This is a great point to anyone considering purchasing in Scotland. I definitely looked at the historic GBP to USD rate and agree that it’s definitely a good rate now. As you mentioned, even if it goes back up to what it was a few years ago, that will only bring it equal to Las Vegas MF rates with the benefit of getting the Elite Premier status. I hadn‘t done the math for if it went all the way to 2:1 GPB:USD, but with all the issues with Brexit, I don’t see that happening anytime soon. Fingers crossed.

A big reason we decided to get so many points from Craigendarroch was so we could take advantage of the Elite Premier benefits. Mainly, I didn’t want to pay extra every time we wanted to use our points. We are used to DVC and the idea of having to pay fees to make reservations, bank points, or convert points to HHonors points would probably make us less inclined to use them. Also, I was concerned that we would eventually not be able to buy points from Craigendarroch that were Elite eligible which is why we bought enough to get to Elite Premier right away. We could have bought fewer now and just added more later, but if future purchases were no longer Elite eligible, our only option would be to purchase direct which would definitely not be worth the extra cost for the Elite benefits.

I love the no fees. I book, cancel, book, and play....no charge...this saves you each time. The combination of a lot of points and free booking makes it much easier to play with your vacation calendar. Between no booking fees or guest certs it has saved me more than, at least, one week's MFs plus the unit upgrades have a cost as well since you didn't pay for it but received the benefit. There is no guarantee for the upgrade though.

 

[HuskerATL]

Could you elaborate on some of these? I’ve read the HGVC club rules and looked at the Elite Premier benefits, but apparently am not familiar with everything. What’s the 30% discount on OS? Does Elite Premier get a different conversion rate for HHonors points? Thanks!

When you get access to the HGV portal, you will see them but here are the screen shots:

 

[HuskerATL]

Could you elaborate on some of these? I’ve read the HGVC club rules and looked at the Elite Premier benefits, but apparently am not familiar with everything. What’s the 30% discount on OS? Does Elite Premier get a different conversion rate for HHonors points? Thanks!

Elite Premier get a 30% discount on Open Season. Open Season are reservation within the next 30 days and you pay cash versus points. When the cash price is listed for the rooms that you want to rent, the 30% is already deducted so you book it with the discount. Guest certificates are $79 each but EP gets them for free. EP can convert HGV points to HH at a 1:16 ratio so to calculate the real value, you need to determine how much those points cost you, typically your MF cost/# of points and then how that translates into hotel stays. # of points required versus the cost of the room, then compare. If you have left over points though, it can be a good place to dump them with no expiration date versus saving into the next year or dumping into RCI, which is good for 2 years there.

 

[HuskerATL]

We head to Miami for Labor Day weekend and will use the Lyft credit to pick us up at the airport and drop us at McAlpin...for free as part of the $250 Lyft credit. So, when looking at cheap MFs and elite status, you can add all of these up and compare to the MF cost.

 

[Lampshade]

So are you saying that only Elite Plus and above are able to convert Club Points to HHonors points? I thought there was a fee if you weren’t at least Elite Plus and was free otherwise. Obviously not the best use of points, but we do a lot of cross country traveling where we’re already staying at Hilton hotels. It would be handy to just use HHonors points for those instead of having to pay cash, even if it’s not the best use of Club Points once MFs are calculated. Thanks!

 

[Lampshade]

Also, is there still a better exchange rate if you decide to convert next year’s Club Points to HHonors points before Dec 31 of the previous year? In the Club Rules, it mentions a 20:1 ratio if you convert them for use in the current year, and a 25:1 if you convert next year’s points before the start of that year, for use next year.

This was before the 1.6x points change so the ratios don’t apply, but did they get rid of that early decision bonus?

 

[GT75]

Also, is there still a better exchange rate if you decide to convert next year’s Club Points to HHonors points before Dec 31 of the previous year? In the Club Rules, it mentions a 20:1 ratio if you convert them for use in the current year, and a 25:1 if you convert next year’s points before the start of that year, for use next year.

This was before the 1.6x points change so the ratios don’t apply, but did they get rid of that early decision bonus?

Since you will be elite premier, you can convert any number of points at any time (no fees) at 25:1 (old system).

 

[HuskerATL]

Since you will be elite premier, you can convert any number of points at any time (no fees) at 25:1 (old system).

But now 16:1....current points.

 

[HuskerATL]

Andrew did go over the requirement to cancel the pre-booked weeks in order to convert them to Club Points but I didn’t realize you could do that up to two years in advance. That’s great to know since we don’t plan on visiting Scotland in the near future, although we probably will at some point. Thanks!

yes, some folks can't find that. It is in your reservation list and just click the Cancel Reservation link for that week.

 

[HuskerATL]

We could have bought fewer now and just added more later, but if future purchases were no longer Elite eligible, our only option would be to purchase direct which would definitely not be worth the extra cost for the Elite benefits.

This is why we bought a lot when we did. It was supposed to have ended April 15th and then has been extended.

 

[HuskerATL]

Also, is there still a better exchange rate if you decide to convert next year’s Club Points to HHonors points before Dec 31 of the previous year?

Hilton Honors Conversion for Following Year Use. Prior to December 31, 11:59 PM ET of the current use year, eligible Members may convert any or all of the next year’s allotment of
ClubPoints into Hilton Honors points at the current ratio of 1 ClubPoint to 16 Hilton Honors points for a fee. For example, 5,000 ClubPoints = 80,000 Hilton Honors points. Converted points will be
deposited into the Member’s Hilton Honors account the first week of January of the following year. Except as described below, ClubPoints may be converted into Hilton Honors points on an every other year basis (including owners of biennial interests),

This applies to non-E+/EP members. E+ and EP can convert any amount at anytime.

 

[HuskerATL]

I thought there was a fee if you weren’t at least Elite Plus and was free otherwise

for non-E+/EP: