CNBC story on Timeshares!

[e.bram]

You really can not buy a deeded timeshare from a developer( difficult resale too) today, only points.
Getting an oceanfront unit fixed good week is impossible. timesharing is dead!

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

What i suspect is not being caught here is just the sheer volume of inventory they are getting from foreclosures/deedbacks/surrenders, especially at older resorts where the maintenance fees far exceed the cash cost to stay. Honestly a lot of these older resorts just need to be demolished or converted to condos or something.

I think that is going to situation specific. As you indicate, many of those older resorts really need to be sunsetted. They don't have any resale program to speak of, so they really stuck if they accept deedbacks.

My comments are more directed the points-based vacation club type programs, that have on-going sales programs and are engaged in adding properties.

 

[rickandcindy23]

I think that is going to situation specific. As you indicate, many of those older resorts really need to be sunsetted. They don't have any resale program to speak of, so they really stuck if they accept deedbacks.

My comments are more directed the points-based vacation club type programs, that have on-going sales programs and are engaged in adding properties.

And when I wanted to sunset Foxrun in Lake Lure, NC, I was in the minority. We hit sunset about four years ago. VRI asked for a vote to keep it as a timeshare, I tried to get TUG members to vote for sunset, and I was told that if we didn't vote to keep it as a timeshare, it would be a tenants in common situation. There was no market for the townhouses because real estate in that market was depressed.

Now VRI sold management to Capital Vacations, a company that is selling some point system. We have seen posts here on TUG about this company.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

Now VRI sold management to Capital Vacations

Capital Vacation prominently featured in the CNBC story.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

Most of the time it is just a laugh. In this case, quite plausible.

From the time that Bezos started Amazon, he always saw it as an e-commerce play. The only reason Amazon started as a bookseller is because Bezos figured that was the easiest market to target initially. His plan always was to expand into general e-commerce.

At the same time, Amazon has been very astute in finding additional business opportunities. They were one of the first companies operating server farms to realize that they could market their server farms for cloud computing. Then, when they looked at how their cloud customers were using their storage and compared that with were they were going with cloud storage, they realized that cloud computing was a huge business opportunity.

Microsoft was also selling cloud storage, and logically they were the company that should have delivered cloud computing, just as eBay should have been the business that developed on-line e-commerce. But Amazon pounced while others were dithering, and left MS eating their dust.

 

[vikingsholm]

That was a well made video, and Brian did a great job in the interviews.

My only beef is that almost every story I read or watch about timeshares covers the negative side, and often with a sensationalist point of view - scams, lying salespeople, high expense, difficulty of shedding them later, etc.

We have had such good experiences using our timeshares for many years now. That after making a few small mistakes initially, but soon figuring out how to maximize value and travel widely and affordably to many great locations with nice, fully set up condominiums (timeshare units) instead of small little hotel rooms without kitchens and other amenities.

It would be nice if some features covered that more, with only a side note of cautions, instead of focusing so heavily on the potential pitfalls.

 

[rickandcindy23]

309K views. Fantastic, but I am afraid timeshares are getting more bad press than they should get. Still a great concept, as long as you buy resale. Resale is king.

I always think of Sylvester Stallone in his new show on Paramount +, Tulsa King, saying, "Cash is King."

 

[jp10558]

Microsoft was also selling cloud storage, and logically they were the company that should have delivered cloud computing, just as eBay should have been the business that developed on-line e-commerce. But Amazon pounced while others were dithering, and left MS eating their dust.

Microsoft however has really (probably illegally) bundled Azure and all their cloud stuff with their locked in Outlook corporate clients. So anyone who's not "cloud native" or starting out now might do AWS or GCP or Oracle, all the existing enterprises that live Outlook for email and calendaring are pulled into Azure + Teams + whatever, because it's so much cheaper if you're already buying Outlook on the web licenses.

 

[jp10558]

My only beef is that almost every story I read or watch about timeshares covers the negative side, and often with a sensationalist point of view - scams, lying salespeople, high expense, difficulty of shedding them later, etc.

We have had such good experiences using our timeshares for many years now. That after making a few small mistakes initially, but soon figuring out how to maximize value and travel widely and affordably to many great locations with nice, fully set up condominiums (timeshare units) instead of small little hotel rooms without kitchens and other amenities.

It would be nice if some features covered that more, with only a side note of cautions, instead of focusing so heavily on the potential pitfalls.

I'd say the problem is that's not a sensational story that has sympathetic victims. (Though that one that went and bought *again* a year later ... really should have known better on the second purchase, unless their economics radically changed like lost both jobs and that just wasn't in the story.) Also it's "folk wisdom" that timeshares == SCAM.

Whereas, while you could do a "These people learned how to vacation saving thousands of dollars over a decade with this one trick" sort of headline, common wisdom would have people just sending in hate mail to the news that ran that report, even if it's true with resale purchases.

 

[dioxide45]

Whereas, while you could do a "These people learned how to vacation saving thousands of dollars over a decade with this one trick" sort of headline, common wisdom would have people just sending in hate mail to the news that ran that report, even if it's true with resale purchases.

Based on the number of dislikes on certain videos on my YouTube channel, I can definitely say this is true.

 

[nomoretslt]

@TUGBrian excellent interview. Hard to believe people still plop down huge amounts of money for something they can get for free sometimes. I have no idea how other timeshare systems work as I’m only a DVC owner. Although I did have a timeshare an acquaintance gave me near Disney. It was an awful place that cost nearly $1,000 year in fees. Thanks to coming across TUG in 2018 I was able to give it back to Diamond for $250. I’m waiting for the day that people give away their DVC on TUG.

 

[Patri]

I have no problem that timeshares get a bad reputation there. The salespeople should clean up their act, be honest, change the whole model. If people are scared away from buying from the developer, they may find resales sooner. They will enter the ts vacation style gingerly, and maybe research in advance, not 11 days after they buy retail.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

I’m waiting for the day that people give away their DVC on TUG.

That day is fast approaching for Vero Beach and Hilton Head Island. Maybe in a decade or so for some of the others like OKW. DVC is not immune to the same issue that plagues every timeshare, maintenance fee increases exceeding inflation year after year.

 

[pedro47]

Problem #1, how many new prospective ts buyers know that there is a resale market and where and how to access this resale market ?

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

Problem #1, how many new prospective ts buyers know that there is a resale market and where and how to access this resale market ?

It's crazy that they don't (and you're right they don't) but if you just google "should I buy a timeshare?" all of the top results are articles that mention the resale market.

 

[dioxide45]

The main problem is that timeshares have no inherent demand. In other words, no one sets out to buy a timeshare. I really shouldn't say "no one" because many do when looking at resale and a few do when buying direct. However, it isn't like there are hoards of people willingly walking into a timeshare sales office looking to buy. Developers keep building because the current sales market works. As the video indicated, timeshares boomed during the pandemic revenge travel rush. At some point you would think that these companies should be happy just to manage properties and sell existing inventory, but now that they are all stand alone public companies the investors demand more. They aren't blue chips. The model could be dead in 20 years.

 

[theo]

Capital Vacation prominently featured in the CNBC story.

Yes indeed, and it's gratifying to see Capital Vacations getting some of the kind of "exposure" (i.e., very negative) that they have worked hard to earn and that they so richly deserve (IMnsHO).

Brian certainly did a great job in his segments; kudos to him for a job well done!

 

[nomoretslt]

That day is fast approaching for Vero Beach and Hilton Head Island. Maybe in a decade or so for some of the others like OKW. DVC is not immune to the same issue that plagues every timeshare, maintenance fee increases exceeding inflation year after year.

No thanks to both of those resorts….I live in a resort town…..Hilton Head is a lovely resort but holds no fomo for me, except maybe for an overnight on the way to Disney…..6 points for a studio in January for a weeknight!!!! Vero Beach…..too much in fees due to the hurricane factor.
I’ll be 81 when my Boardwalk contracts expire. I’m hoping to outlive those contracts. The others…will have to have discussions with the kids….who knows what the world will be like then.

Problem #1, how many new prospective ts buyers know that there is a resale market and where and how to access this resale market ?

Believe it or not, our DVC guide (their name for Timeshare Salesperson) back in 2008 told us about the resale market. We had no clue. We really wanted to buy Bay Lake Tower, but really didn’t want to spend the money. We had a Beach Club contract….we never stayed there except one time….would use the points for Boardwalk. He looked at our vacation patterns and suggested we sell Beach Club since we never stayed there. Gave us two names. GMAC ( yeah I know) and I believe Fidelity. Sold it immediately. Yeah sure he got his commission for Bay Lake. But for the most part, DVC guides are not like the sleazy timeshare salespeople I read about here. Although I have been hearing complaints of buyers not being able to reserve the room they want when they want it. It’s really tough to get a studio certain times of the year at the better resorts. This is really glossed over apparently. You really need to research the product or you will be disappointed and angry.

 

[moonstone]

Problem #1, how many new prospective ts buyers know that there is a resale market and where and how to access this resale market ?

That is a big problem in my experience. Heck I've even talked to timeshare sales folk who were amazed (maybe faking it) that what they were selling for many thousands could be had for free or next to it. I have shown the TUG Free Timeshares page to lots of people. I also carry my printed info page about TUG with me on timeshare stays to give to new or prospective buyers. Of course many, mostly sales folk, think there is some kind of catch or those weeks are somehow inferior. We had a sales guy at VV@Pkwy tell us we could never stay there, or any Gold crown resort, with our free week converted to RCI Points. I said well we are here using them, in a 2 bedroom, for 2 weeks!


~Diane

 

[OLRi2010]

It's crazy that they don't (and you're right they don't) but if you just google "should I buy a timeshare?" all of the top results are articles that mention the resale market.

I was heartsick when a family member bought directly from a developer as I had so often talked about how much more affordable things were on the resale market. But they got sucked in and did it. I don't know how much they spent, but I know it had to be alot, definitely more than they should have/could have spent.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

I was heartsick when a family member bought directly from a developer as I had so often talked about how much more affordable things were on the resale market. But they got sucked in and did it. I don't know how much they spent, but I know it had to be alot, definitely more than they should have/could have spent.

I've had the same experience. They called me from the resort, just before they were going to go into the sales meeting. Then I talk with them after the sales meeting, where they purchased, and a couple of days later. Gave them examples of where they could buy exactly what they had just purchases for less than 1% of what they paid. But they said the resale didn't have all of the perks and add-ons they had been offered in the sales room.

Two years later they were asking me for help on how to get rid of it. Fortunately, they had paid cash. Ultimately, their accountant bought it from them for about $1000 dollars.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

The main problem is that timeshares have no inherent demand. In other words, no one sets out to buy a timeshare. I really shouldn't say "no one" because many do when looking at resale and a few do when buying direct. However, it isn't like there are hoards of people willingly walking into a timeshare sales office looking to buy. Developers keep building because the current sales market works. As the video indicated, timeshares boomed during the pandemic revenge travel rush. At some point you would think that these companies should be happy just to manage properties and sell existing inventory, but now that they are all stand alone public companies the investors demand more. They aren't blue chips. The model could be dead in 20 years.

Are any of the major developers actually building anything new anymore though?

 

[sponger76]

Are any of the major developers actually building anything new anymore though?

Yes. Marriott is currently building in Waikiki and preparing to build in both Savannah and Charleston, although one or maybe both of those will end up under the Westin brand. And Hilton is in the middle of a buildout on Maui, with some buildings already open for business and more to come.

 

[cubigbird]

Can’t wait to watch the next segment “Timeshare Companies collapsing because they priced owners out with double digit annual fee increases.”

 

[OLRi2010]

I've had the same experience. They called me from the resort, just before they were going to go into the sales meeting. Then I talk with them after the sales meeting, where they purchased, and a couple of days later. Gave them examples of where they could buy exactly what they had just purchases for less than 1% of what they paid. But they said the resale didn't have all of the perks and add-ons they had been offered in the sales room.

Two years later they were asking me for help on how to get rid of it. Fortunately, they had paid cash. Ultimately, their accountant bought it from them for about $1000 dollars.

Yes...all the perks and add-ons. That's what enticed them. It was this past year so remorse may not have set in yet, I hope for their sake it doesn't.