Club Wyndham Suspension

[Richelle]

I am new here and found this site via a fellow timeshare owner who recommended it to me.

Our family has been Founder VIP Owners with Club Wyndham for over 25 years. During COVID lockdowns my mother was diagnosed with aggressive dementia, which required around the clock care for over 2+ years until her death recently. We were unable to travel and spent the majority of our time caring for my mom. Since we couldn’t travel we used our complimentary guest pass (we are afforded 45 passes per year) to let friends and members of our church to use the resorts. They helped to mitigate our maintenance fees and were able to enjoy Wyndham resorts since we were unable to leave my mom.

Earlier this year, Wyndham notified us they were suspending our ownership for “commercial use” because we used too many guest passes and had not used our reservations for personal use. Our account was suspended for 90 days, BUT during that period they continued to collect maintenance fees to the tune of thousands of dollars. Basically, we were charged for something we weren't allowed to use. Over the last 25+ years we have traveled to well over 20 Wyndham resorts and used our guest passes for friends to accompany us. When we contacted them to explain our situation, they said there is nothing they can do and we were designated a "commercial user"? When I asked for documentation to better explain this policy, I was told there is no objective language what determines what a "commercial user" is and based on our usage the last 2 years they determined our account to be a commercial user (regardless of our situation). I asked to appeal the decision, but was told there is no appeal process. As Founder VIP owners with well over 7 figures of points, I can not believe there is no way around this. This whole experience has really changed my opinion of Wyndham.

Has anyone had any experience with this? Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Sorry to hear about your mom. I cannot imagine how stressful that was. To top it off, Wyndham suspended your account causing more stress in a time of grief.

I agree with @HitchHiker71. Email Michael Brown. In addition to what he said, maybe make mention that you understand that people were trying to make money with their timeshare and that forced them to take action against those owners. However, that was not the case in your situation. You never advertised your rentals and only rented to people you knew and it wasn’t intended to make a profit.

The above will acknowledge why they were “forced” to make those changes and you are not arguing that. You’re only asking they relook into your situation and hopefully reconsider. I am not agreeing with them and I am definitely not trying to make excuses. It’s just that sometimes you have to tell them what they want to hear to get what you want. Whether you actually believe it or not.

One other thing. Keep the email polite and professional. Leave emotion out of it. They will be more likely to work with you.

Best of luck to you. Let us know how it goes.


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[Fido Chuckwagon]

I’m still genuinely curious on what a “90 day suspension” means. If that just means you can’t access the website / make new bookings for 90 days, I’m not seeing how that’s so devastating that it effectively shuts down the OP’s account and makes him have to abandon Wyndham. What am I missing? After the 90 days is up can’t OP just continue making reservations using his/her points as normal? Why does OP need to write the CEO for reinstatement?

 

[am1]

I’m still genuinely curious on what a “90 day suspension” means. If that just means you can’t access the website / make new bookings for 90 days, I’m not seeing how that’s so devastating that it effectively shuts down the OP’s account and makes him have to abandon Wyndham. What am I missing? After the 90 days is up can’t OP just continue making reservations using his/her points as normal? Why does OP need to write the CEO for reinstatement?

Points expire, reservations get booked by others. The OP owns the timeshares and should not be restricted.

If I ever went on a tour again I might actually enjoy it but would pity the sales person.

 

[Richelle]

I’m still genuinely curious on what a “90 day suspension” means. If that just means you can’t access the website / make new bookings for 90 days, I’m not seeing how that’s so devastating that it effectively shuts down the OP’s account and makes him have to abandon Wyndham. What am I missing? After the 90 days is up can’t OP just continue making reservations using his/her points as normal? Why does OP need to write the CEO for reinstatement?

Part of it is on principle. They OP didn’t do anything to make a profit. They did it because they couldn’t use their points, due to taking care of a sick family member. I am not fan of people who rent for profit, but as I mentioned, they didn’t do that. So I don’t agree with Wyndham on this one. They also didn’t do anything to violate the commercial use policy that they defined as advertising your timeshare for rent.


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[HitchHiker71]

I’m still genuinely curious on what a “90 day suspension” means. If that just means you can’t access the website / make new bookings for 90 days, I’m not seeing how that’s so devastating that it effectively shuts down the OP’s account and makes him have to abandon Wyndham. What am I missing? After the 90 days is up can’t OP just continue making reservations using his/her points as normal? Why does OP need to write the CEO for reinstatement?

My point is that, at least from the characterizations of the OP, their account has so many points that they cannot afford to keep the account and pay the MFs without the original owner’s financials in play (who is now deceased), and therefore they would likely still have to process rentals to help offset MF costs. By acknowledging that they are willing to downsize the account as part of the solution, so as to get the points allotment down to a size where personal use is the majority of the usage, it shows good will and will likely result in her case being routed to a Wyndham employee that can help facilitate that direct outcome. I agree with @Richelle it can’t hurt to ascribe the reasoning for the majority of points usage over the past few years to help cover MFs during what was obviously a difficult time for their family.

Specific to your point about the 90 day suspension, my concern is that absent taking these actions, the use of any GCs after the suspension lifts, for whatever reasons, could result in further account suspensions. Once these accounts are on the radar so to speak, attention is paid for any continual offending behaviors.


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[Fido Chuckwagon]

Points expire, reservations get booked by others. The OP owns the timeshares and should not be restricted.

If I ever went on a tour again I might actually enjoy it but would pity the sales person.

Part of it is on principle. They OP didn’t do anything to make a profit. They did it because they couldn’t use their points, due to taking care of a sick family member. I am not fan of people who rent for profit, but as I mentioned, they didn’t do that. So I don’t agree with Wyndham on this one. They also didn’t do anything to violate the commercial use policy that they defined as advertising your timeshare for rent.


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Oh no, I get it, it sucks. I feel bad for OP. What I meant was, it doesn’t seem like it’s the end of the road for Op’s use of Wyndham, it’s just a really crappy thing that happened. The way OP was posting though it made it seem like they were permanently barred from using their membership, which was what I was not getting. I understand not **wanting** to use Wyndham anymore after this though.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

My point is that, at least from the characterizations of the OP, their account has so many points that they cannot afford to keep the account and pay the MFs without the original owner’s financials in play (who is now deceased), and therefore they would likely still have to process rentals to help offset MF costs. By acknowledging that they are willing to downsize the account as part of the solution, so as to get the points allotment down to a size where personal use is the majority of the usage, it shows good will and will likely result in her case being routed to a Wyndham employee that can help facilitate that direct outcome. I agree with @Richelle it can’t hurt to ascribe the reasoning for the majority of points usage over the past few years to help cover MFs during what was obviously a difficult time for their family.

Specific to your point about the 90 day suspension, my concern is that absent taking these actions, the use of any GCs after the suspension lifts, for whatever reasons, could result in further account suspensions. Once these accounts are on the radar so to speak, attention is paid for any continual offending behaviors.


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This makes sense. Thanks.

 

[HitchHiker71]

@JeepGirl if it would help - feel free to paste a generic version of any proposed email to Michael Brown into this thread. We'd be happy to review your content with the recommendations within this thread in mind. We actually have a few lawyers who are also owners who will likely chime in with their writing expertise as well (can't hurt right?). Just wanted to put the offer out there if it would help. In the meantime, when does your 90 day suspension expire? I'd recommend avoiding using GCs post-suspension just to be on the safe side - until you can get some type of agreement from Wyndham on a path forward, it at all possible, though I understand this may be difficult especially given your MFs are likely not insignificant on a monthly basis. I own a little over 1.4mm points myself and pay just under $500/month to Wyndham, with MFs hovering around $7300 per annum at present - nothing to sneeze at - and you have double the points I do - so that's like another mortgage payment basically.

 

[WManning]

I have no Wyndham ownerships and no ax to grind here
I simply stumbled upon this thread
@troy12n
I am surprised and disappointed that someone posting here on tug would be as rude as you appear to be
Your posts simply sound like you are trying to pick a fight with someone
IMHO you are entitled to express your opinions but not to disrespect others

Nailed it!

 

[LivelyCDN]

I am glad I rented thousands of reservations, 3 and 4 bedroom units AC, Vegas, Daytona, BC during prime and special weeks. All booked and upgraded during the 60 day discount window. Found a way to get 100s of extra guest confirmations for free and using the guest confirmations for 2 different guests if I could do split reservations and add 2 first names and two last names. Looking back a little scary to cancel rebook then cancel upgrade. But I had duplicate reservations.

Wyndham by their own fault gave me 10's of millions of extra points. There were times when I would cancel a reservation the points would come back but the reservation was still in the account. Had to rinse and repeat till the reservation was gone. No one I told at Wyndham cared. Reservations that were booked the day account was merged would show up as duplicates in the new account. They could be cancelled and points returned but it was just cancelling ghost inventory. No one at Wyndham cared.

One New Years Eve I had a 100 rooms booked in AC. Sadly AC was dying and NYE was midweek but still made out well.

When cancelling units at 15 days I would rebook the next day and then cancel at night and when finally done with the week I would book the middle 2 days and then when the first 3 and last 2 were booked by someone else I would cancel the middle two days. Eliminate the competition.

Renting Wyndham timeshares was just what the salespeople told me I could do. Its not my fault I just did it better then you.

Everyone who is an owner has an equal opportunity to book reservations. I guess you are against the free market?

Hi! I’m new here. I joined to help my senior parents rent some of their Wyndham points. I do not really understand how to do what you have done. They signed an upgrade in January that they didn’t really need at their age, were told they can rent, they paid some random person/company $ to help rent with no return. They have way more points than they can/will ever use. I don’t even know if I can ask for help in this manner/thread? So much to read & absorb. I just want to get something going for them. Thanks.

 

[Sandi Bo]

Hi! I’m new here. I joined to help my senior parents rent some of their Wyndham points. I do not really understand how to do what you have done. They signed an upgrade in January that they didn’t really need at their age, were told they can rent, they paid some random person/company $ to help rent with no return. They have way more points than they can/will ever use. I don’t even know if I can ask for help in this manner/thread? So much to read & absorb. I just want to get something going for them. Thanks.

Welcome to TUG @LivelyCDN @am1 is speaking of 'the good old days'. He is no longer an owner. Safe to say @am1 was a megarenter who made a good living at renting at a time when it was acceptable and there were system issues and practices that caused more points to available than should be, etc. (Wyndham would not begin to pass the muster in the area of accurate accounting practices when it comes to points (or their financials/payment system for that matter). A lot has changed in the last 5 or so years. Resale points used to receive VIP benefits and renting used to be okay. Sales will tell you it's okay, but it's not, not in any volume anyways. You can rent using Extra Holidays - Wyndham's rental arm (you book things and turn them over to Extra Holidays (EH)). They may or may not rent what you booked. If you don't you forfeit the points, they can rent only a portion (you forfeit the rest), etc. I would only use EH in desperation (and I've never been that desperate). On the other end of the conversation with @am1 is Troy. Troy is all the way at the other end of the spectrum - a megarenter hater if you will. He has cheered and the demise of owner rentals, can be pretty rude and short and judgmental (and wrong - he often doesn't quite know what he is talking about when throwing his rocks at this glass house we call Wyndham). You're going to be drinking water through a fire house here to understand some of this stuff, and some (much) just doesn't matter anymore.

Perhaps read with a timeline in mind (TUGGERS we need one in the stickies to help understand some of the bigger changes that have occurred - for newbies working to get a handle on some of this stuff). I would keep the timeline in mind as your read through the posts here.

pre May 2017 - rolling points, stripping contracts before selling, the old credit pool (replaced by point deposits) - they are no more
May 2017 - Voyager system was introduced
March 2020 - Current system was thrown in (pretty much untested) - in the height of the covid shutdowns I think they thought no one would notice, just showed up one day. Voyager was buggy and the current system even more so.
Owner priority - maybe 2021 or so was introduced. Be sure to understand owner priority, read and understand that before doing any renting of any sort (really any use of guest confirmations whether for friends, family, or renting)
About 2 years ago -- System changes were implemented to stop resale points from receiving VIP benefits. Accounts with resale and developer points are called hybrid.
About 2 years ago - the infamous letters from Wyndham started being sent out. 'Your account has been identified as a commercial renter... type verbiage' is letter one; there is a 2nd stronger letter where accounts are locked down, reservations cancelled, etc (I think to those who didn't heed the warnings in letter 1). Wyndham doesn't fully show their hand - no one knows exactly what triggers each letter and Wyndham doesn't fully define commercial renter. They aren't the most transparent or ethical people to deal with. Make them mad and they are downright vindictive.

A much better effort can be put into that timeline, those are quick and could be more detailed. And of course sprinkled with my opinion

TUG certainly saved my (and my family's) butt. TUG is a good place to ask questions, get opinions - there are plenty here - and you'll learn our personalities and where we fall on the megarenter to owner spectrum (opinion and support). You may be in a similar position to me - I took over managing for my Dad when he had too many points. Most likely could have joined one of those class action lawsuits where the elderly were taken advantage of but I like the product itself, my family (siblings, kids, nieces and nephews - all that want to be are on our account) use it quite a bit - just got back from a nice family reunion at Daytona Beach and Orlando and I know Dad would be pleased (that was his intent).

 

[rickandcindy23]

This is happening to us with Wyndham. We have been trying to deed back, use certified exit, which every owner is supposed to be able to use. We cannot use the program and are back and forth with one of Michael Brown's assistants to see if their legal department will allow us to use certified exit with our leftover contracts after giving a bunch away.

We are using retirement savings to pay the fees after receiving the letter to stop renting, which we received, ironically, while we were at Wyndham Shearwater and weren't at home to receive the letter. We were at Shearwater for three weeks, and they knew we were there. They started cancelling everything we booked and then shut down our account. A call to Wyndham the day we saw it shut down, we were told they identified us as mega renters.

Odd that all letters always seem to be mailed in summer months. It's like the legal department doesn't know what to do with itself and has to look for ways to infuriate owners (we have only been Plat founders owners for 17 years)

They aren't the most transparent or ethical people to deal with. Make them mad and they are downright vindictive.

 

[rickandcindy23]

When regular Wyndham owners with no status and no intention of renting commercially are affected, then Wyndham might just back down. You should be allowed to have your sister, brother, best friend, daughter, parent, etc., use a resort for a trip without the owner present.

 

[CO skier]

pre May 2017 - rolling points, stripping contracts before selling, the old credit pool (replaced by point deposits) - they are no more
May 2017 - Voyager system was introduced
March 2020 - Current system was thrown in (pretty much untested) - in the height of the covid shutdowns I think they thought no one would notice, just showed up one day. Voyager was buggy and the current system even more so.
Owner priority - maybe 2021 or so was introduced. Be sure to understand owner priority, read and understand that before doing any renting of any sort (really any use of guest confirmations whether for friends, family, or renting)
About 2 years ago -- System changes were implemented to stop resale points from receiving VIP benefits. Accounts with resale and developer points are called hybrid.
About 2 years ago - the infamous letters from Wyndham started being sent out. 'Your account has been identified as a commercial renter... type verbiage' is letter one; there is a 2nd stronger letter where accounts are locked down, reservations cancelled, etc (I think to those who didn't heed the warnings in letter 1). Wyndham doesn't fully show their hand - no one knows exactly what triggers each letter and Wyndham doesn't fully define commercial renter. They aren't the most transparent or ethical people to deal with. Make them mad and they are downright vindictive.

When regular Wyndham owners with no status and no intention of renting commercially are affected, then Wyndham might just back down.

This is a common refrain from megarenters whose businesses were affected by the program changes above and since 2006, or so. What they do not seem to understand (or, maybe, admit) is that the program changes were/are designed to support "regular Wyndham owners with no status (regular VIP owners, too) and no intention of renting commercially."

A prime example is the Owner Priority Dates and the guest usage exemption when the owner is present while sharing Club Wyndham reservations with guests, "you can travel with your guests to these resorts during the (owner priority) dates listed below" -- no 2 guest certificate limit when the owner is also staying.

 

[am1]

Hi! I’m new here. I joined to help my senior parents rent some of their Wyndham points. I do not really understand how to do what you have done. They signed an upgrade in January that they didn’t really need at their age, were told they can rent, they paid some random person/company $ to help rent with no return. They have way more points than they can/will ever use. I don’t even know if I can ask for help in this manner/thread? So much to read & absorb. I just want to get something going for them. Thanks.

Best of luck. Do not buy more points and do not pay someone to sell or rent what you have. Learn how to use the system as it is now. Ask yourself if you will be able to use the points and plan ahead or learn to travel last minute.

 

[rickandcindy23]

This is a common refrain from megarenters whose businesses were affected by the program changes above and since 2006, or so. What they do not seem to understand (or, maybe, admit) is that the program changes were/are designed to support "regular Wyndham owners with no status (regular VIP owners, too) and no intention of renting commercially."

A prime example is the Owner Priority Dates and the guest usage exemption when the owner is present while sharing Club Wyndham reservations with guests, "you can travel with your guests to these resorts during the (owner priority) dates listed below" -- no 2 guest certificate limit when the owner is also staying.

When you have a friend who wants to go to Wyndham Shearwater in October, slow season, for example, and you are AFRAID of renting to that friend for fear their reservation will get cancelled and you will have your account shut down for two months, then you will understand what I am talking about.

 

[CYRUS2400]

When you have a friend who wants to go to Wyndham Shearwater in October, slow season, for example, and you are AFRAID of renting to that friend for fear their reservation will get cancelled and you will have your account shut down for two months, then you will understand what I am talking about.

It's pathetic what Wyndham is doing. Especially since they won't even define 'commercial'. I don't mind the priority GC limit nor did I care about the reduced number of GC's they granted with the last round of rule changes. But, to not define 'commercial' is unjustified. Put out a rule, Wyndham, something like percent of points used for guests, number of GC's used, etc. Just give us something so that we are not putting friendships in jeopardy due to the arbitrary meaning of 'commercial'.

 

[b2bailey]

I am a small Wyndham (resale) owner who has attended many 'update' meetings over the years. EVERY presentation included mention of renting out point reservations to cover maintenance fees.

My blood boils for those owners like rickandcindy who are now being persecuted for believing what they heard.

Please tell me that they no longer promote this concept in update meetings.

 

[rickandcindy23]

There are a lot of baffled owners on various FB pages that are not sure why they got the letter because they didn't rent more than a few a year.
@b2bailey they defend that stance on renting by saying, "You can absolutely rent through Extra Holidays." That's Wyndham's own rental company that keeps most of the profit for themselves, and if your reservation does not rent, too bad.

 

[LivelyCDN]

I am a small Wyndham (resale) owner who has attended many 'update' meetings over the years. EVERY presentation included mention of renting out point reservations to cover maintenance fees.

My blood boils for those owners like rickandcindy who are now being persecuted for believing what they heard.

Please tell me that they no longer promote this concept in update meetings.

They do still promote it! My parents doubled up on their points because of this!!

 

[LivelyCDN]

We will never use all these points. Can’t afford to travel that much & we have limited vacation time from work. Slick sales person said, rent them to pay off your loan & then start making money! My parents are in mid-70s, limited income, figured they can manage a few payments to get started, then the money would role in…my dad also has dementia but pretends to know & says “she’s the boss”. They signed & I found out too late.

 

[bnoble]

Oh good. Another Wyndham thread that has become just like the others.

 

[Rolltydr]

It's pathetic what Wyndham is doing. Especially since they won't even define 'commercial'. I don't mind the priority GC limit nor did I care about the reduced number of GC's they granted with the last round of rule changes. But, to not define 'commercial' is unjustified. Put out a rule, Wyndham, something like percent of points used for guests, number of GC's used, etc. Just give us something so that we are not putting friendships in jeopardy due to the arbitrary meaning of 'commercial'.

They have rules that are very simple and easy to follow. You just don’t like them. The rules are:
1. Do not advertise your timeshare for rent.
2. Do not rent your timeshare other than by the approved rental vehicles; i.e. Extra Holidays.

 

[CYRUS2400]

They have rules that are very simple and easy to follow. You just don’t like them. The rules are:
1. Do not advertise your timeshare for rent.
2. Do not rent your timeshare other than by the approved rental vehicles; i.e. Extra Holidays.

Where are these rules written?

Just to be clear, per your stated rules, I can do as many GC's as I want so long as I do not advertise to rent under my own name. Don't think that this is a rule, but, believe what you choose.

 

[CYRUS2400]

Oh good. Another Wyndham thread that has become just like the others.

This thread dealt directly with suspensions. If its not a concern for you, move on, don't clutter up the thread. Those of us with an interest in understanding suspensions and the definition of commercial use will choose to follow.