Changes to PFD Grid

[jerseygirl]

Someone check me -- but here's what I see:

2 BR Red Gold Crown (old / new)

Northeast 41500 / 53500
New York City 46000 / 80500
Gulf States 52500 / 52500
Mexico 41000 / 49500
Cabo, Cancun 43000 / 60500
Mexico Inland 47000 / 47000
Canada - Eastern 41500 / 43500
Canada - Western 52500 / 52500
Rocky Mountains 58000 / 58000
Hawaii 46000 / 80500
Pacific Coast Inland 58000 / 58000
California Coast 62000 / 62000
San Francisco 80500 / 80500
Florida 57500 / 57500
Southeast 41500 / 60500
Southeast - S Carolina 60500 / 60500
Midwest / Plains 40500 / 55500
Midsouth 40500 / 52500
Gatlinburg / Pigeon Force 41500 / 54500
Caribbean / Bermuda & Bahamas 46000 / 75500

 

[djyamyam]

Here's the new grid!

http://www.rci.com/GPN/CDA/Common/pdf/RCI_ExGridsUpdate1.pdf

There are some big-time increases across the board and around the world, Mexico, Hawaii, Caribbean, etc! As jerseygirl pointed out, there are marked increases on the GC resorts vs. the non-GC resorts.

For those complaining about Points raiding Weeks I think this new grid is definitely going to reduce some of that because people are going to question whether those extra 17.5K points are worth it to book that 2BR GC in Cabo (for example) or to try to get it with a regular Weeks trader.

With with these increase on the grid, does the number of Points on my converted week increase as well? It would have to because if it doesn't, it wouldn't go nearly as far as it once used to.

 

[JanB]

And there is a new terminology - "RCI Silver Crown" instead of RID. I've never considered PFD for my resorts because of the low points offerred. Now I just may look into which ones qualify.

Thanks for the heads up.

 

[sfwilshire]

With with these increase on the grid, does the number of Points on my converted week increase as well? It would have to because if it doesn't, it wouldn't go nearly as far as it once used to.

The generic grid has no relation to your converted week. It WOULD apply to Points for Deposit weeks.

Sheila

 

[Carolinian]

http://www.rci.com/GPN/CDA/Common/pdf/RCI_ExGridsUpdate1.pdf



For those complaining about Points raiding Weeks I think this new grid is definitely going to reduce some of that because people are going to question whether those extra 17.5K points are worth it to book that 2BR GC in Cabo (for example) or to try to get it with a regular Weeks trader.

While there might be some decrease in raiding, and I'm looking at the Caribbean as an example, the change does not address the fundamental problem with the grids, and that is overaveraging which seriously undervalues PRIME red inventory within a region, both as to season and as to location.
Treating all red weeks of same size and award status the same is way too broad, and the regions themselves are way too broad. One size does NOT fit all. For example, the grids say a 2BR GC on St. Lucia for New Years or a 2BR GC on Bermuda for July 4 is worth the same thing as a 2BR GC in Sint Maarten in hurricane season. That is just nuts.

Moving to more geographic breakdowns and seasonal breakdowns like the European generic grids would have been a much more meaningful step in the right direction than merely tweaking the numbers in a fundamentally flawed grid system. I also like adding the word ''from'' in front of all values on the grid, like the European grids do, allowing more valuable resorts to have higher values than the generic grids imposed. This could also help reflect the true value.

The grids remain a fraud on the Weeks system.

 

[JeffV]

They may not meet your criteria for perfection but the beat the heck out of the old "secret black box" of weeks trading where no one knew for sure what anything was worth. Hurrah for a brave new world.

 

[Dottie]

Thanks for the grid. I kept the one for last year and the one for the year before. Some areas had huge point increases last year. Looks like this year they raised most of the ones they missed with last year's increases. One must get a little more creative to minimize points used. Not a welcome start to the new year.

Dottie

 

[Carolinian]

They may not meet your criteria for perfection but the beat the heck out of the old "secret black box" of weeks trading where no one knew for sure what anything was worth. Hurrah for a brave new world.

Anyone with any gumption at all knows a mid-August week in a southern beach area is worth much more than a late October week. Why doesn't RCI Points? And that example comes from the Points charts, not a crossover grid.
In the crossover grids, they say an early April week is the same as a july 4 week, and that is absolute nonsense.

Weeks can differientiate the values of such weeks even if it is not really feasible logisitically to publish so many different numbers, especially since they are constantly adjusting for supply and demand factors. So what does Points do to make it possible to publish numbers? First to freeze them, which is going to eliminate the adjustment for changes in supply and demand. Then it lumps a lot of very different weeks into large categories, grossly overvaluing some in relation to others. The butchering of the system to allow numbers to be published is just not worth it.

 

[ouaifer]

As Moderator of this Board....

Anyone with any gumption at all knows a mid-August week in a southern beach area is worth much more than a late October week. Why doesn't RCI Points? And that example comes from the Points charts, not a crossover grid.
In the crossover grids, they say an early April week is the same as a july 4 week, and that is absolute nonsense.

Weeks can differientiate the values of such weeks even if it is not really feasible logisitically to publish so many different numbers, especially since they are constantly adjusting for supply and demand factors. So what does Points do to make it possible to publish numbers? First to freeze them, which is going to eliminate the adjustment for changes in supply and demand. Then it lumps a lot of very different weeks into large categories, grossly overvaluing some in relation to others. The butchering of the system to allow numbers to be published is just not worth it.

As Moderator, I am chiming in with my 2 cents worth. I have posted a Sticky for the 2006 Points Grid at the top of this Board. Do NOT shoot the messenger. This is for information for those who are interested. You have already torn this subject apart on other Boards, most recently here . It's nice to have a voice...but enough is enough here! If you feel you need to vent, forewarned is forearmed...mainly here. Please refrain from any potential personal attacks! ouaifer, Points Moderator

 

[BocaBum99]

Thanks Ouaifer! You are the best!

 

[aleksir]

Someone check me -- but here's what I see:

2 BR Red Gold Crown (old / new)

New York City 46000 / 80500
Cabo, Cancun 43000 / 60500
Hawaii 46000 / 80500
Caribbean / Bermuda & Bahamas 46000 / 75500

<list edited for brevity>

That's quite a bit of 1 year points inflation!
NY - 75%
Cabo, Cancun, PV - 41%
Hawaii - 75%
Caribbean - 64%

I feel sorry for the poor folks that only have 50,000 points. Lots of vacation plans just got flushed

 

[reddiablosv]

Not perfection, but an improvement.

Carolinian, the new grid is not perfection as you have pointed out. However it does address a major source of concern that weeks owners have been complaining about scince the inception of the points program. Let me illustrate with an example. Under the old grid the average points 2 bedroom GC resort in Hawaii was worth about 80-90K points. But, the grid allowed a crossover exchange for a weeks unit for 45K points!! A two for one swap, or raid depending on your point of view. And heaven knows we had tuggers lining up on these threads defending this as progress and the wave of the future. These tuggers saw nothing wrong with this as long as they were the beneficiaries. (No personal attack intended, just an observation.) With the new grid values RCI has made this a one for one swap. The days of raiding are largely over!!! You have scored a victory! Acknowledge it. Ben

 

[brucecz]

For our "poor Midwest" CMV Gold Crown two Bedroom UDI the increase for a redweek is from 40,500 RCI Points to only 55,500 RCI Points which is only a 37% increase in RCI Points.

A white week increased from 27,000 RCI Points to only 36,600 RCI Points which is only a 35.5% increase in RCI Points.

A blue week increased from 16,000 RCI Points to only 24,000 RCI Points which is only a 50% increase in RCI Points.

Hey boca woe is us poor CMV UDI Oak Timbers owners in regards to these RCI "Small" Point increases.



Bruce

 

[BocaBum99]

Carolinian, the new grid is not perfection as you have pointed out. However it does address a major source of concern that weeks owners have been complaining about scince the inception of the points program. Let me illustrate with an example. Under the old grid the average points 2 bedroom GC resort in Hawaii was worth about 80-90K points. But, the grid allowed a crossover exchange for a weeks unit for 45K points!! A two for one swap, or raid depending on your point of view. And heaven knows we had tuggers lining up on these threads defending this as progress and the wave of the future. These tuggers saw nothing wrong with this as long as they were the beneficiaries. (No personal attack intended, just an observation.) With the new grid values RCI has made this a one for one swap. The days of raiding are largely over!!! You have scored a victory! Acknowledge it. Ben

Ben,

What you posted is interesting. When you said "These tuggers saw nothing wrong with this as long as they were the beneficiaries" it struck me that you may believe that Points owners may really hate these changes.

I, for one, applaude the changes. I don't raid weeks. But, I would deposit weeks if the benefit outweighs the cost. If I had some Hawaii weeks, I would consider depositing them.

This is just an evolving process of the RCI point system becoming more and more fair.

 

[BocaBum99]

For our "poor Midwest" CMV Gold Crown two Bedroom UDI the increase for a redweek is from 40,500 RCI Points to only 55,500 RCI Points which is only a 37% increase in RCI Points.

A white week increased from 27,000 RCI Points to only 36,600 RCI Points which is only a 35.5% increase in RCI Points.

A blue week increased from 16,000 RCI Points to only 24,000 RCI Points which is only a 50% increase in RCI Points.

Hey boca woe is us poor CMV UDI Oak Timbers owners in regards to these RCI "Small" Point increases.



Bruce

Sure you get more points. But, what was the percent increase in the fee to deposit a week in PFD? If you had a choice to roll back to Dec 31 or move forward with the current program, which would you want? Fewer points and no deposit fee or more points and $26 a deposit?

 

[JudyS]

Whoa! Some steep increases there!

I own 3 Points resorts, and no Points-for-deposit, so between the grid change and the increase in Points fees, my ownership has just been devalued.

Well, I can use some of my Points resorts in II. But, I wish I had at least gotten more use out of my Points ownership before its value decreased!

 

[timeos2]

Judy the grid change is only for non-points resorts. Your value change isn't really very much unless those ar the only resorts you plan to utilize. It's really not a big deal.

 

[brucecz]

Boca, off the top of my head without doing any detailed number cruching the CMV UDI Cottges difinately prior Jan 1, 2006 as the increase falls short of giving the value they did before for RCI Points. But still can be used for RCI weeks and II weeks. But they are if properly used correctly the Cottages IMHO are still the second greatest value in the RCI weeks for deposit program by proving a couple possable rentals and also up to about 275,000 very low cost yearly RCI Points.


Now on the CMV UDI Oak Timbers the red and white week increase fall a bit short but the fairly easiley picked blueweeks have basically held thier prior cent per RCI Point value ratio cost.

Seing that the average CMV UDI Oak Timbers deposit increased on a average of 1/3 more than the CMV UDI COttages each pure CMV UDI "pure" OAK Timbers could generate up to the same amount of rentals and 80,000 to 90,000 more yearly RCI Points than the CMV UDI Cottages or say about 350,000 yearly RCI Points. Plus the still have the advantage of the free golf and ski lift passes. I have said it before for the RCI weeks for points program the CMV UDI Oak Timbers even now can not be beat cost effectiveness.

It used to be with the over all costs in 2005 between the UDI Cottages and Oak Timbers the cost per RCI Points was within .002 cent of per RCI Point. Now the UDI Oak Timbers gives about a 30% better value in regard to RCI Point costs and still has the better rent ability.

Boca, I sure you or someone else maybe like Gordon will post a more detailed cost breakdown. But if they have not raised the amount of RCI Points needed for airplane fares then I am remian a fairly happy camper.

The RCI Point increases will help to lessen the cost effect for the Bluegreen Points owners.

Bruce

Sure you get more points. But, what was the percent increase in the fee to deposit a week in PFD? If you had a choice to roll back to Dec 31 or move forward with the current program, which would you want? Fewer points and no deposit fee or more points and $26 a deposit?

 

[djyamyam]

Judy the grid change is only for non-points resorts. Your value change isn't really very much unless those ar the only resorts you plan to utilize. It's really not a big deal.

John, in one sense you are correct that it only affects the non-points resorts. So no change if all you use is home resort and Points resorts. However, the percentage of Points resorts is small relative to the overall number of resorts, especially when looking outside the US or even NA. One of the marketing components of Points is access to both Points & non-Points and that second component is the portion that has been devalued.



With these grid increases, it does level out the playing field to a greater extent, maybe not as much as some would like but defintely more so. Boca mades a good point about the Hawaii weeks. Before, if you couldn't go, a person would likely rent it out or trade it with someone other than RCI because you didn't get enough value from them. Now, if you have a Points account, you may have another option with PFD creating a win-win scenario with more Points for you and someone else getting a shot a prime week.

To truly optimize one's timesharing experience, I don't think a person can stay only RCI Points (unless you have a high denomination week). You'll either need weeks for PFD or a good Weeks trader. Anyone want to sell me their CoCal or Cape Cod for really really cheap?

 

[JudyS]

Judy the grid change is only for non-points resorts. Your value change isn't really very much unless those ar the only resorts you plan to utilize. It's really not a big deal.

Well, I know the new values are only for the "crossover" (non-points )weeks, but between RCI raising the fee for Points reservations, and these higher points values for crossover weeks, it makes RCI Points a worse deal all-around. I know that the big increases in points cost are only in a few places, and mostly for Gold Crown resorts, but it's still annoying. RCI just seems to get gradually worse and worse.

 

[brucecz]

IMHO the point totals given to most of the RCI Point resorts were over valued by about one half in relation to their quiality and their prepoint demand.

Bruce

 

[reddiablosv]

Ben,

What you posted is interesting. When you said "These tuggers saw nothing wrong with this as long as they were the beneficiaries" it struck me that you may believe that Points owners may really hate these changes.

I, for one, applaude the changes. I don't raid weeks. But, I would deposit weeks if the benefit outweighs the cost. If I had some Hawaii weeks, I would consider depositing them.

This is just an evolving process of the RCI point system becoming more and more fair.

Boca, I think the reaction of JudyS is the more typical response of the RCI points owner to the changes in the grid. The ability to do crossover trades at favorable exchange rates has been a staple in the marketing of many points resorts! The ability to buy a dog week with low MFs in AUS. or TX. and snag a GC in Hawaii or HH or some other prime location was the main reason why many tuggers got into RCI points at all. If you doubt this, just try to recall the ads on ebay for the low end RCI points resorts. Sure, there are other reasons as well to own points, but the high point values placed on the dog weeks of RCI points resorts gave them great trade value. Even More so than weeks, many owners bought points units just for the points with no intention ever to visit the resort! The mantra was points are points are points! Well now that Texas coast white week RCI points unit worth 45K points with the MF of $550/yr just doesn't look so good anymore! It looked a lot better when it would trade for a GC 2 bedroom Maui unit. Ben

 

[bogey21]

Well, I know the new values are only for the "crossover" (non-points )weeks, but between RCI raising the fee for Points reservations, and these higher points values for crossover weeks, it makes RCI Points a worse deal all-around.

Maybe I'm missing something but isn't this good for those who use PFD and 9,000 Point/45 day window weeks? If you used to get 27,000 points for your PFD Week and used it for three 9,000 Point/45 day window reservations and now get 36,000 points for your PFD Week, don't you now get four Weeks instead of three?

GEORGE

 

[brucecz]

Boca, I think the reaction of JudyS is the more typical response of the RCI points owner to the changes in the grid. The ability to do crossover trades at favorable exchange rates has been a staple in the marketing of many points resorts! The ability to buy a dog week with low MFs in AUS. or TX. and snag a GC in Hawaii or HH or some other prime location was the main reason why many tuggers got into RCI points at all. If you doubt this, just try to recall the ads on ebay for the low end RCI points resorts. Sure, there are other reasons as well to own points, but the high point values placed on the dog weeks of RCI points resorts gave them great trade value. Even More so than weeks, many owners bought points units just for the points with no intention ever to visit the resort! The mantra was points are points are points! Well now that Texas coast white week RCI points unit worth 45K points with the MF of $550/yr just doesn't look so good anymore! It looked a lot better when it would trade for a GC 2 bedroom Maui unit. Ben

But a with reservation Housekeping Fee of only $50 for a full week and that RCI Points cost of $26 to deposit a week totals $76 dollars for a Red week worth 55,500 RCI Points and a white week worth 36,600 RCI Points is not a to bad of a deal. Seeing many RCI mainland round trip flights cost only 35,000 to 45,000 RCI Points while the top cost for the Carribean RT's is 60,000 and Hawaii RT"S is 70,000 RCI Points we are very happy with the upgrades made on the genaric chart.

Like I said in my previous posts, many Point resorts were over valued and this RCI POint genaric week adjustment will help lessen the raiding of weeks IMHO

Bruce

 

[BocaBum99]

Boca, I think the reaction of JudyS is the more typical response of the RCI points owner to the changes in the grid. The ability to do crossover trades at favorable exchange rates has been a staple in the marketing of many points resorts! The ability to buy a dog week with low MFs in AUS. or TX. and snag a GC in Hawaii or HH or some other prime location was the main reason why many tuggers got into RCI points at all. If you doubt this, just try to recall the ads on ebay for the low end RCI points resorts. Sure, there are other reasons as well to own points, but the high point values placed on the dog weeks of RCI points resorts gave them great trade value. Even More so than weeks, many owners bought points units just for the points with no intention ever to visit the resort! The mantra was points are points are points! Well now that Texas coast white week RCI points unit worth 45K points with the MF of $550/yr just doesn't look so good anymore! It looked a lot better when it would trade for a GC 2 bedroom Maui unit. Ben

If anyone based their buying assumption on raiding weeks from RCI weeks, they made a huge mistake when they bought.

When I bought RCI Points, I bought it because I wanted to travel weekends in Florida.

I always thought that the raiding was short term only. Take them while they are there, but don't expect it to last.

In fact, I based my purchase on my actual usage and expected a full payback in 5 years or less.

As I have learned more about RCI Points, I like it less and less every day. That's because the alternatives are so much better. The exchange fees are too high and the extra housekeeping fees are ridiculous. This hurts your financial return.

I prefer the mini-point systems. They blow away RCI Points. I just made a 3-day reservation yesterday in an Orlando resort for a friend. No fees, just points. If I booked it in RCI Points, I would have paid $63 in exchange fees and $58 in housekeeping fees. Why would I want to do that?