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Can't upgrade original purchase if you are a resale purchaser

Bill4728

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Kathypet said:
We would all buy a resale week cheap and then tell Marriott we wanted full retail value trade in for it to trade up to a higher level season. What a deal!

Why would you not just buy a resell platinum week cheap and get what you want in the first place without spending twice as much?

Currently there is a ~$6000 difference between gold vs platinum resale weeks at NCV but there is a ~$10,000 difference between gold and platinum weeks Marriott is selling. If you had a gold week, why not sell it and buy a resale platinum for the $6K difference instead of "upgrading" for ~$10K?
 

Bill4728

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Re: Can't upgrade if you are a resale purchaser

wsrobinson said:
Perhaps I can clarify as i bought a resort (Surf Watch) which is still in the development phase. I bought a 3 bedroom Silver GV unit. I then changed my mind and upgraded (because the contract had not been completed and they still had the inventory on hand) to a 3 bd Silver Oceanside. Then I rethought my decision again and bought a 3 bd Gold GV week. Each time I was supposed to pay $175 fee for the trouble I was causing the Closing Dept at Marriott. Then, to finally cement the deal I changed my mind again to Platinum 2 BD Oceanside. I ended up happy with my decision and with the season I chose and never paid the $175 for any of the upgrades. All of the upgrades went without incident and occured within a 3 week period. This is, I think what Y-ASK was talking about with the term "upgrades". If the owner he would be purchasing from has already closed the upgrade option may not even be available. Hope this adds some clarity.
What is happening above is like buying a car, then before taking the car home deciding to get a different one, then even another one. Upgrading your purchases 3 times in 3 weeks is very different than wanting Marriott to upgrade you, 2 -5 years down the line.
 

KathyPet

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I think the OP indicated that he could not find a resale available for the higher level season that he wanted and of course he would then have to try to resell his lesser season in the resale market and perhaps does not want to maintain two units until that happens.
 

Y-ASK

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KathyPet said:
WHy should they take a lesser week (gold) which are harder to sell in trade and allow him to upgrade to platinum and give him full trade in price for a lesser season week which they have to resell. In addition I agree with the poster who said that if everyone caught on to that possibility than why would anyone ever buy from Marriott. We would all buy a resale week cheap and then tell Marriott we wanted full retail value trade in for it to trade up to a higher level season. What a deal!
Why should anyone purchase what is suppose to be a real estate property from a developer who is obviously over charging the buyer for what the property is actually worth. It is interesting the way in which you have changed this entire thread for it's orginal intent. I hold issue with the resort and the different treastment primary and secondary owners are given by the resort concerning this one issue:

The developer rep. I spoke with told me that, while they still have units available during the building phase, primary owners who purchase directly from the developer can upgrade to a more desirable season or view and secondary owners cannot. What is so hard to understand about that?

Now I can only go on what the sales rep. told me but I cut and pasted his exact quote from an E-Mail in an early post and that is how I see it. Think about it, if the developer is not willing to value all of their properties for what they are currently asking then how can they possilbe set a fair price for the property. So what your saying is that like Ford they over price everything but unlike Ford when you try to do a trade-in they should only give you fair market value (in this case they won't even give the secondary owner that) and not the artificially inflated value they charge for an identical piece of property. Do you work for Marrott or something? I would think that everyone who owns a real estate property would want the value to remain reasonable stable and increase over time as the market goes. No so with timeshares. People actually come here and defend the developers, amazing...

Y-ASK

The bottom line if they are going to offer the upgrade option they should offer it to all owners whether they be primary or secondary. If they can't compete with the resale market then maybe they're charging too much to begin with.

We've decide to purchase more points from the Disney Vacation Club where the owners are all treated equally well and the value of the property remains resonable high. I'm not going to have to disclose to someone I plan to sell to that they will not be getting the same treatment that I received because they are a secondary owner.
 

KenK

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What we need to remember is that USA Marriott developed resorts that are timeshares are exactly what Y-ASK stated.

They are REAL ESTATE Property. The property is not OWNED by Marriott...but by the people who felt they could pay developer or resale prices. THEY become the Homeowners Association, and can vote, and change rules. (and even oust Marriott...no secondary owners here)

Once Marriott gives over control to the OWNERS....Marriott is paid by them to (supposedly) run the resort in the BEST INTEREST of the owners.

Of course, buying points in the DVC may be more fair. Thats probably because the owners are Disney...not the points holders. The points owners have no say, no votes, and can't change the rules of the HOA because there isn't any.

Of course, some (Hi, Carl ! ) feel this is a better form of USAGE of resort time. Paying for a set of points that give you leasing rights to a group of rooms owned by Disney Corp for a specific period of time. Of course some here feel the value of the points MAY go down as the lease time gets closer to its end....but there wasn't any bother of worring about owning anything.

I don't know when the lease on the DVC contracts end....but usually, (as seen in many Mexican T/S, (except the Royals that give you your purchase price of the RTU back) the value goes down a bit as the RTU (Lease) period ends. Called Residual Value.

Does Disney also give back residuals when the leases expire?






Y-ASK said:
Why should anyone purchase what is suppose to be a real estate property from a developer who is obviously over charging the buyer for what the property is actually worth. It is interesting the way in which you have changed this entire thread for it's orginal intent. I hold issue with the resort and the different treastment primary and secondary owners are given by the resort concerning this one issue:

The developer rep. I spoke with told me that, while they still have units available during the building phase, primary owners who purchase directly from the developer can upgrade to a more desirable season or view and secondary owners cannot. What is so hard to understand about that?

Now I can only go on what the sales rep. told me but I cut and pasted his exact quote from an E-Mail in an early post and that is how I see it. Think about it, if the developer is not willing to value all of their properties for what they are currently asking then how can they possilbe set a fair price for the property. So what your saying is that like Ford they over price everything but unlike Ford when you try to do a trade-in they should only give you fair market value (in this case they won't even give the secondary owner that) and not the artificially inflated value they charge for an identical piece of property. Do you work for Marrott or something? I would think that everyone who owns a real estate property would want the value to remain reasonable stable and increase over time as the market goes. No so with timeshares. People actually come here and defend the developers, amazing...

Y-ASK

The bottom line if they are going to offer the upgrade option they should offer it to all owners whether they be primary or secondary. If they can't compete with the resale market then maybe they're charging too much to begin with.

We've decide to purchase more points from the Disney Vacation Club where the owners are all treated equally well and the value of the property remains resonable high. I'm not going to have to disclose to someone I plan to sell to that they will not be getting the same treatment that I received because they are a secondary owner.
 

timeos2

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KenK said:
Does Disney also give back residuals when the leases expire?

No. And they keep raising the fees with no chance that they will go down even that last year before Disney takes it back. As you said Disney owns and controls the resorts and the system. The people are really on a long term lease and have no rights beyond the points they get annually. 2042 is the end year for most DVC resorts but now there is at least one with a different end date like 2050.
 

poppop

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Wow Y-ask...........you just floored me....................after all the discussion about real estate ownership..........you decide to purchase a long term rental! :doh: As to holding its value........how much value will it hold after the lease runs out? Timeshare may not be a good "investment" , but my grandkids are already making plans on what they are going to do someday with timeshares that I own.
 

Y-ASK

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poppop said:
Wow Y-ask...........you just floored me....................after all the discussion about real estate ownership..........you decide to purchase a long term rental! :doh: As to holding its value........how much value will it hold after the lease runs out? Timeshare may not be a good "investment" , but my grandkids are already making plans on what they are going to do someday with timeshares that I own.
Well it's all pretty much a crap shoot isn't it. I mean I don't plan to keep our DVC for more than 10-20 years and hopefully with Disney still doing ROFR's I might be able to get a fair price for my points. Also I'm not sure what the maintenance fees are going to be when your Grand Childern are going to inherant the deed, but knowing how it is just starting out they may not be able to afford the fees and have to sell quickly. And maybe I was a little harsh on the timeshare developer. After all they have every right to set policy the way they want during the building phase. I havn't totally decided not to purchase into Marriott but I don't think I'll purchase right now. Maybe just wait and watch for the right situation to come along. Hell I could go to Hilton Head Island in Nov. and hate it. And if I hadn't mentioned it before, which I think I have, All of us, the wife, the kids, and I loved the OceanWatch resort. I'm not sure how we are going to feel when the third building is completed and filled with families. The pool had about as many people as I would want the way it is now.

Y-ASK
 

wsrobinson

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It strikes me that DVC is selling points around $100/point. The resale market (in which DVC exerts ROFR) seems to have set a bottom of $65-70/point. Or in simple math a 30 percent discount. If my memory serves me, Oceanfront and Oceanside at GO in 1992 were in the 12,900K to 16K range (not exact but close) for Platinum weeks. Those weeks are now 33K for Oceanside and $42K for Oceanfront (less on the resale market but still more than double and very scarce). So, in roughly 14 years the property values have more than doubled. The DVC points will never double for sure and many MVC resorts do not ever see this return. However, with due dilligence you could buy something that will have some tangible value in a fair period of time. JMHO.
 

Y-ASK

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Does Marriott have an ROFR program in place and if so what is the going rate for Marriott to buy back it's properties? I do not dispute your numbers but I don't think anyone with OceanFront (depending on where it is) is getting $44K, or $24K for that matter, on a timeshare they purchased in 92. Then again I could be wrong because I've only just now started looking at timeshares from other developers. And basically what you are telling me is to not rule out Marriott OceanWatch, right? I havn't ruled them out, just looking :)...

Y-ASK
 

Dave M

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Yes, Marriott has an ROFR for most of its resorts. There is no "going rate", because Marriott rarely exercises its option. Marriott might exercise its right today for a specific week at a specific resort and then pass up an identical opportunity at the same price tomorrow. Whether Marriott exercises its ROFR seems to depend more on whether Marriott needs inventory to meet sales demand in its resale program rather than whether the proposed price is low.

Yes, it's fact that top GO weeks sell today for roughly double what Marriott sold them for back in the early 90s. The best Marriott buys have been at initial preconstruction prices. However, selling my GO week would not enter my head as a possibility!

As another example, I bought a 3BR Las Vegas Marriott Grand Chateau from Marriott when sales first started a little over two years ago, received over 500,000 Marriott Rewards points when I purchased and two short years later could easily sell my week on the resale market for very close to what I paid. Meanwhile, those Marriott Rewards points are worth somewhere between $5,000 (based on a common calculation) and $20,000+ (based on the way pwrshift uses them).

Done properly and wisely, a Marriott purchase - from Marriott - can be rewarding in many ways - without taking a financial hit.
 

wsrobinson

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I echo Dave M.'s sentiments about selling GO (or not ever selling it as the case) but there are a couple of GO weeks on Redweek (which seem to be priced fairly). An Oceanside, Platinum week for $25,900 and an Oceanfront, Platinum week for $33,900. The prices I threw out there were quoted from the Marriott Sales Dept when I inquired about such weeks in early July of this year. GO is unique to be sure, but I think all platinum Hilton Head weeks are pretty rare on the resale market. The owners of those weeks love to stay there and don't want to part with them at any price! Land is more scarce and controlled on HH than at Myrtle Beach. With very little available land and skyrocketing land prices, the platinum weeks have appreciated nicely. If you have the money, and you want the Rewards points, I would go buy a GO oceanside platinum week. If not, go buy the oceanside platinum week on the resale market. You can probably negotiate something in the low 20K range. You will never regret it, I can assure you. IMHO, it is Marriott's finest property.
 

Y-ASK

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wsrobinson said:
GO is unique to be sure
Ok, for someone who does not know, What does "GO" mean? Is that like saying the Platinum Plus season where you are guarenteed the July 4th week every year?

Y-ASK

Case you hadn't noticed, I'm new here :wave:
 
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