Can't upgrade original purchase if you are a resale purchaser

[Y-ASK]

I just don't understand this policy. If I purchase directly from the timeshare resort builder and I want to upgrade my room view or the time of year I can vacation I can pay the difference and upgrade. But if I purchase the exact same type of room from a primary owner (their term), I as the secondary owner cannot upgrade. Wouldn't that sort of preferential treatment decrease the value of an owners property? As an owner I would want all of the rights I would enjoy as a primary owner to be passed on to a secondary owner so that my property value would not decrease in any way. Am I wrong for thinking that way?

Y-ASK

Edit to try and avoid any further confusion: When I say upgrade I'm talking about the trade-in of the deeded property for a different deeded property at the same resort. The new property deed would include the desired upgrades like moving from a Gold Season to a Platinum Plus season or moving from a GardenView to an OceanSide view. What I'm talking about has nothing to do with Exchanges or moving to a different resort. I'm talking about upgrades within the same resort provided that the developers has units available with the desired upgrades.

 

[Jim C]

Re: Can't upgrade if you are a resale purchaser

You might not be wrong, but why worry about it? Don't buy it.

 

[riverdees05]

Re: Can't upgrade if you are a resale purchaser

This must vary by resort. I have been able to upgrade with fee, at two of my resale timeshare resorts.

 

[Y-ASK]

Re: Can't upgrade if you are a resale purchaser

You might not be wrong, but why worry about it? Don't buy it.

It's not so much worry as it is trying to understand why they might do this. And what you are saying is my point exactly. If you're a smart buyer who throughly researches your purchase you're probably going to be put off by this type of policy. So your comment "Don't buy it." means the seller has lost a buyer and the property value will reduce with time if everyone who looks at it does their research. And I'm not talking about any fly-by-night timeshare builder, I'm talking about Marriott who I thought would have wanted to maintain their owners property values.

Y-ASK

 

[Hoc]

Re: Can't upgrade if you are a resale purchaser

This must vary by resort. I have been able to upgrade with fee, at two of my resale timeshare resorts.

It's not a general rule. Apparently it is a rule specifically at a resort where the OP wants to purchase.

 

[dougp26364]

Re: Can't upgrade if you are a resale purchaser

Developers do this because, in the end, they really couldn't care less about the owner and the retention of his value in the timeshare. All the developer wants to do is protect his angle to get someone to purchase from him rather than the less expensive resale units. He can't compete in price but he can give away extra's like this without costing him a dime. Instead, it costs those who buy from him and might want to resell their units down the road.

Marriott does something similar to this when they won't allow someone who buys resale to exchange their unit for Marriott Rewards points. Only those who purchase from the developer can do that. I'd like to say they keep the value up by taking right of first refusal on their properties but, again, that's just to make money for Marriott. If they can pick already sold units back up on the cheap and then sell them at developer prices again, they make a tiddy profit on the same unit twice.

In the end, developers really don't care about you. They care about selling more units and making more money.

 

[Art]

Re: Can't upgrade if you are a resale purchaser

I'm not sure how Marriott got dragged in to this discussion. It is undoubtedly true that a resale Marriott buyer cannot up-grade to a better season; but neither can someone with a developer week.

As an owner of both resale and developer Marriott weeks, I have never been told or read that I could "up-grade" my weeks (short of buying a week in a better season). Things are pretty clear in the documentation that we can only reserve a week in the season we own; any switch to a better (or worse) season has to be handled as a exchange thru II.

From a logical point of view, in a sold out resort, those weeks that someone would like to up-grade to already are allocated to the owners in that season. If up-grading were permitted, how would one deal with the owner who was "down-graded" out of his unit? Fun, wow!

OK, there are better weeks available via owners who give them up in exchange for Marriott Reward Points. However, these weeks now become part of the rental pool so that Marriott can generate the cash to pay for whatever the Reward Points are used for. These are available to anyone who is willing to pay for them. As Doug has pointed out, that Reward Point exchange is only available to buyers of Marriott developer weeks or resales directly from Marriott

Art

 

[timeos2]

Can't upgrade if you are a resale purchaser - BULL!

It's bull pure and simple. If you aren't an owner there you should pass on buying - and be sure you let the current owner know why and advise them to have the Association Board change the rules if there is one - change management if it is a management procedure that favors the developer. There is no logical or monetary reason why a resort would want to do that except to help the developer. Once the resort has "real" owners that should no longer be the focus of the Board for any reason. The one and only reason an Association and it's Board of Directors exist is to operate the resort to the level the owners desire, at the lowest cost and treating every owner alike. Sounds like the Board at that resort is delinquent in at least two of those areas.

If you own there or buy there then start a serious effort to find out why they think there is any difference between a resale & a retail buyer. Why they feel they have any right to discriminate against either type or favor one over another. Find out who the Board members are and, if they aren't individual owners rather than a bunch of developer flunkies, start now to get them out. If they are owners find out what they are doing for you. Are they acting in your or the Developers best interest? Find out who your management company is. If it's a subsidary of or is the Developer let them know they work for the resort - not the Developer - and they are subject to lawsuits if they are playing favorites. Work to get them out if thats the case.

This type of after the sale junk is not allowed by most states' timeshare regulations, your resort documents or management agreements. Far too often owners just let the developer/management get away with whatever they want and that shouldn't be. Rally owners to stop it and help increase the value of your ownership. Don't let the Developer hang around or call the shots at your resort forever.

 

[pcgirl54]

Re: Can't upgrade if you are a resale purchaser

What brand is the OP refering to ?

 

[JudyS]

Re: Can't upgrade if you are a resale purchaser

.... Wouldn't that sort of preferential treatment decrease the value of an owners property? .....

Yes, it certainly does.

.... As an owner I would want all of the rights I would enjoy as a primary owner to be passed on to a secondary owner so that my property value would not decrease in any way.....

As others here are saying, resorts do this to hurt resales. By doing so, though, they also are reducing the value they give to owners, which is cetainly a valid reason not to buy there.

I haven't heard about this situation in terms of view upgrades before; I've mostly heard about it in terms of VIP benefits (Fairfield) or turning a TS week into hotel points (Marriott and a few others.)

 

[ZCar]

Re: Can't upgrade if you are a resale purchaser

I think Art has it correct.
Marriott does not upgrade. It's always been you get the season/color/view etc. that one purchases. It is in the CC&R's.
Why should a Garden View owner be upgraded (even for money) to say an Ocean View.

Should a GV owner be simply allowed to upgrade, thereby possibly taking a week from the OV owner?
(Arts comment above: "... those weeks that someone would like to up-grade to already are allocated to the owners in that season. If up-grading were permitted, how would one deal with the owner who was "down-graded" out of his unit? Fun, wow!"

To me, it's simply downgrading the OV purchaser. Why buy GV if you can get OV for free or little money?
Buy from Marriott or resale, it's the same. No discrimination.
I fully agree with that policy.
Exchange and maybe you'll get "upgraded".

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

Re: Can't upgrade if you are a resale purchaser

Let's say you are in a developer sales presentation and the sales person mentions perks you receive as an owner that don't accrue to people who buy realse. When the sales person gets to the point where the selling price comes up, the least you should do is deduct from the sales price the diminished value of the resale price.

After all, if the developer is going to take actions that reduce the value of what you own, that's like taking money right out of your pocket. The least you should expect is to be compensated for losing that.

 

[PerryM]

THE #1 opponent to the timeshare salesrep - YOU!

Let’s face it – selling a developer timeshare is hard to do. It takes a lot of money to sell a timeshare – about 50% of the purchase price goes to the salesrep, sales manager, sales prizes and advertising.

The typical timeshare is sold to folks on vacation with their guard down and the 90-minute pressure cooker sales presentation has wave after wave of salesreps and managers pummeling poor old Ma and Pa who really just wanted a free gift.

Anyway, once the sale is made our new owner turns into the #1 opponent of the salesrep – you, the owner, can sell your unit for about a 50% - 80% discount and it’s the same exact villa.

The developers must, therefore, make their “New” timeshare appear different than your “Used” timeshare with all kinds of sales gimmicks. The more gimmicks the more distinction between “New” and “Used” timeshares.

However, actual usage of the timeshare can’t be impeded in any way. The definition that appears on the deed is valid for ALL subsequent owners (or Club rules if a Club). Any other benefit is subject to not being forwarded to a subsequent new owner.

The more the developer adds gimmicks the more the resale price falls – who wants to buy a “Used” FairField point for 85% discount when the “New” FF point counts towards VIP treatment?

Some smart developers, like Marriott and Disney (just to name a few) actively are involved in resales and thus have price supports to resales. Some developers, like FairField (just to name the worst), care little about existing owners and go out of their way to punish them and kill the resale market.

Of course, the salesrep never brings up the subject of resales, just passing the timeshare on to your heirs – thus avoiding the subject of resales.

 

[Time2Ponder]

Re: Can't upgrade if you are a resale purchaser

What really cracks me up is when a sales rep insists that their timeshare is "AN A$$ET" (this is what they actually wrote on the board). How can they declare it to be an asset when, in fact, they cripple the value if/when you need to re-sell it? Doesn't their crippling of the product diminish rather than enhance its value? When we asked this, they glibly moved on to another topic without answering the question. What a surprise!!

Kim

 

[Y-ASK]

Re: Can't upgrade if you are a resale purchaser

I think Art has it correct.
Marriott does not upgrade. It's always been you get the season/color/view etc. that one purchases. It is in the CC&R's.

1st it is Marriott that I speak of as I said in an earlier post. In case anyone is interested it is the new resort in Mrytle Beach S.C. called OceanWatch. 2nd I was told by the sales rep. that I spoke with while on vacation over the 4th that this was their policy. Here is what he wrote to me in an E-mail where I asked about a resale and upgrade. Before he responded to my e-mail I called him on the phone to ask the question but may have not been clear that I was asking about a re-sale when he said yes I could upgrade as the primary owner.

Marriott Rep. wrote:
"Thanks for reaching out to me again on the phone today. Be careful buying resales on the internet. They DO NOT come with the Marriott Reward point option which allows you to stay in Marriott Hotels. In addition you WILL NOT be able to upgrade as we discussed today on the phone since you are not the primary owner.
To protect yourself and the family, buy pre-construction through myself and get a purchase incentive for buying. The occupancy is still available in 2007 and will be for the next week or so. 10% down will lock in price and the incentive. Balance will be placed on a 10 year mortgage with no pre-payment penalty for earlier payoff."

Oh, boy just what I want, a note from Marriott at 13%. Still not sure what I'm going to do but I might try and work the system. Possible front the upgrade money to the seller before the purchase, have them upgrade to what I want, and purchase at the agreed upon price. Then again I must just blow the whole thing off. For some reason this type of BS really bothers me.

Y-ASK

 

[KenK]

Re: Can't upgrade if you are a resale purchaser

We own Marriott and have consistantly been able to switch out of the season we own. All you need is flexibility. Those owning yellow or even green weeks (we're talking weeks code by II not Marriott) at HHI consistantly report getting red Marriott weeks.

I don't know who told you that resales can't get upgraded, but developer bought weeks do....thats also untrue...must have been a mis understanding... Everyone who exchanges their Marriott week does so through Interval International, not Marriott. They have often offered a one bedroom (or even two bedrooms) for a studio. If they like your one bedroom lock off enough, they will even give you an AC for turning it in. (ie- 3 weeks for one)

Interval does not check on the way you bought (if the week is a Marriott Developer purchase or a resale). And they don't care about ocean view or ocean side or garden view of the rooms....just what the relative strenght

The only thing (to date) that a Marriott developer purchased week can do that a resale (not via Marriott) can do is pay Marriott to give them your week that you already paid maint fees and taxes on for an exchange of Marriott Travel Points (reward points). And that is resort specific, some Marriott Managed resorts don't even allow the week return for points, no matter how you purchased it.

It's not so much worry as it is trying to understand why they might do this. And what you are saying is my point exactly. If you're a smart buyer who throughly researches your purchase you're probably going to be put off by this type of policy. So your comment "Don't buy it." means the seller has lost a buyer and the property value will reduce with time if everyone who looks at it does their research. And I'm not talking about any fly-by-night timeshare builder, I'm talking about Marriott who I thought would have wanted to maintain their owners property values.

Y-ASK

 

[Y-ASK]

Re: Can't upgrade if you are a resale purchaser

Not sure why this thread was moved. It really doesn't matter whether this issue is with Marriott or any other timeshare builder. It has everything to do with buying a timeshare and very little with who might be the seller, which is why I posted where I did. Just curious, why the move?

Y-ASK

 

[Dave M]

Re: Can't upgrade if you are a resale purchaser

I moved it because your particular issue was with Marriott and you'll get better answers in this forum as to what the truth is as it affects your situation.

Don't believe everything a salesperson says, even though Marriott salespeople are among the most honest in the business.

 

[Y-ASK]

Re: Can't upgrade if you are a resale purchaser

I don't know who told you that resales can't get upgraded, but developer bought weeks do....thats also untrue...must have been a mis understanding... Everyone who exchanges their Marriott week does so through Interval International, not Marriott.

Sorry if I have confused the issue but this is not about exchanges. This is about purchasing Gold or Platinum and then paying more to the builder (in this case Marriott who has not sold out yet) to upgrade to Platinum or Platinum Plus. In addition this is also about purchasing a GardenView and then upgrading to a Oceanview or Oceanside or even an Oceanfront so that your deed shows a new unit number. You would basically be trading up. Our rep. told us that if we purchase from him we could do that as long as they have units available in what we were asking to upgrade to but if we purchase a re-sale we could not.

Y-ASK

 

[KenK]

Re: Can't upgrade if you are a resale purchaser

BTW....don't forget, thousands of people using Marriott Reward points that do not own anybodies timeshare consistantly get upgraded....

they still get points for stays and for using a Marriott Visa credit card (5 points for every dollar spent (conditions).....

you need no timeshare to get a hotel upgrade....just be a Rewards Member....and spend a lot when you travel.

Sams as Hilton, Sheraton, Hyatt, and other hotel points programs

 

[Dave M]

Re: Can't upgrade if you are a resale purchaser

That's not a standard Marriott program and is apparently something that particular resort is offering.

Since most people buy what they want the first time, I think you'll find that the feeling among Marriott owners on this forum is that the program you are being offered (get the details, including upgrade pricing, in writing) doesn't lessen the value of a resale purchase for any of us. There would be very, very few people for whom that would impact their decision, particularly because of the dramatic difference in resale versus developer price.

 

[EileenSRN]

Re: Can't upgrade if you are a resale purchaser

Reason for edit:
I missed a post from the OP. Totally answered my questions.
However, I own with another developer. Originally purchased a gold 2 bedroom. Several years later, we upgraded to a Plat 2 bedroom L/O, again through the developer. We would not have been able to do it if it was a resale.

 

[ZCar]

Re: Can't upgrade if you are a resale purchaser

Wait a minute ...
Possibly Y-ASK is thinking of the Marriott "Equity Exchange Program".
We did this to buy into Ko'Olina, using our Cypress Harbor week.
There was a $15,000 differential.
Apparently, this program is available only open for certain resorts ... those that Marriott wants.
Now whether a resale purchase can be used for an equity upgrade, I don't know.

 

[Y-ASK]

Re: Can't upgrade if you are a resale purchaser

You want to upgrade on a permenent basis to a different season or bigger unit? I don't know if all developers will do that.
Eileen

Yes that is what I mean, a permanant upgrade. We know what we would like to have, A 2 Bdr. Oceanside unit with a Platinum Plus year so that we get July 4th every year at this resort. Most resales are Silver, Gold, or Platinum or if they are Platinum Plus they are a GardenView. I would consider purchaseing the Gardenview if I could upgrade to Oceanside at a reasonably fair price. Maybe I'm just looking for too good a deal and being too picky. It's just that the answers that I got today from the sales rep. rubbed me the wrong way. Let's face it we're not talking about an insignficant amount of money here whether we're talking full price or re-sale. I will probably take a few days and consider my options but even if this is not a wide spread policy throughout Marriott is has given me pause as to purchasing this re-sale and certainly would turn me away from paying full price for something I would consider reduced in value out the door.

Y-ASK

 

[Y-ASK]

Re: Can't upgrade if you are a resale purchaser

Possibly Y-ASK is thinking of the Marriott "Equity Exchange Program".

No that is not what I mean but I'm getting tired tonight and will continue to respond and try and explain my thoughts tomorrow. Thanks to all for some interesting thoughts and opinions on this issue.

Y-ASK