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buying in Ocean Pointe, FL

dfjkl

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Please bear with me (and point me to the relevant places if I should be reading something before blasting me, thanks, I appreciate it). Getting ready to close on our first time share tomorrow (ever...never considered it before visiting this weekend). We saw timeshares a bit cheaper online and other time share sale sites. But after discussing these issues with our sales person he came back and pointed out that if we did not buy through Marriott we would not have the ability to trade out for points every other year or be able to utilize a vacation planning adviser. While the adviser is nice, the ability to trade out our week for points is a really nice feature.

Thanks!
 

mas

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Right now paying developer prices for the ability to trade for points is very high price. Check out this link for more info on the current points devaluation.

Also, the sales person you talked to appears to be more concerned in a sale than the truth as his comment about only direct sales owners having access to vacation planners is totally false and my bet is odds are 99 out of 100 that he knows this.

You're are probably looking at overpaying by ten grand or more for the privilege of converting to points. As I say, with the devaluation of the MRP program, I don't see how one can make a convincing argument for paying the extra up front money.
 

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Welcome to TUG!

You can save A LOT OF MONEY buying resale. Check out this site:

http://dioxide45.tripod.com/cgi-bin/rofr.cgi

It will give you some idea how much people are paying at OP and other Marriott’s. What you see on-line are ASKING prices, what units sell for is most often much less. Prices are currently dropping like a rock. Check out e-bay closed auctions and search for Marriott. I think you will be shocked to find out how much the right to trade for points is costing you. And by the way points are not worth what they once were.

And even if you buy re-sale you can still use a vacation planning adviser, all you have to do is ask for one.

Do not be in a hurry to buy, take your time and educate yourself. Do your research and make a smart buying decision.

Ray
 

FlyerBobcat

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Take a step back.....

I agree with the other postings. I am so glad that I did not bend (totally) to the pressures of the Sales Reps (at Hyatt and Marriott). I just purchased a platinum Marriott resales at $12k less than their "retail" price at a high demand resort.
 

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Interesting. Thanks for the quick responses. I will say overall, the wife was happy with the offer and the pitch. I have to say...it did take a long time...but the pitch itself wasn't heavy pressure.

Now I am seeing the point conversion has issues. So basically the real question should be if they are valuing our room @ OP to be $350/night, then we should be able to exchange it for enough points to stay in a $350/night hotel for 7 nights, and from what that thread is saying cannot be done under the current points structure? I'm very fuzzy about how the points is working...but it initially sounded like a bonus being able to do the trades. I have been browsing the forum more and found some of the faqs and other forums...they have been enlightening.
 

thinze3

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Interesting. Thanks for the quick responses. I will say overall, the wife was happy with the offer and the pitch. I have to say...it did take a long time...but the pitch itself wasn't heavy pressure.

Now I am seeing the point conversion has issues. So basically the real question should be if they are valuing our room @ OP to be $350/night, then we should be able to exchange it for enough points to stay in a $350/night hotel for 7 nights, and from what that thread is saying cannot be done under the current points structure? I'm very fuzzy about how the points is working...but it initially sounded like a bonus being able to do the trades. I have been browsing the forum more and found some of the faqs and other forums...they have been enlightening.

STOP!!!

You can buy platinum (winter) 2BR timeshares at Ocean Pointe for about $12K and gold (summer) units for about $9K.

If points is what you are after, there are better resorts to purchase for that purpose. Manor Club in Williamsburg costs less up front, has lower maintenance fees, and offers conversion to points (110K) EVERY year.

Imagine owning a 2BR at Ocean Pointe (resale) and a 2BR at Manor Club (from Marriott) for the same price as buying Ocean Pointe from Marriott. Points every year and a very nice vacation to boot.


Terry
 

TheTimeTraveler

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Here's an easy way to figure the worth of Marriott Reward Points:

Anyone can buy 50,000 Marriott Reward Points directly from Marriott for $625 per year. And, if married, your spouse is entitled to do the same thing.

That said, you can directly purchase 100,000 points per year for $1,250 from Marriott with or without having to buy a timeshare (and paying the annual maintenance fees).

Now, I believe Ocean Pointe is 100% sold out, so any unit you buy from Ocean Pointe would be a resale, so Marriott is selling you a resale week.

If you buy a resale from anyone other than Marriott you can spend an additional $1,250 per year and obtain your points EVERY year; and as others have posted you will likely save yourselves $10K or more off of the purchase price.

Last I heard, Platinum Ocean Pointe oceanview weeks were selling for $38K and the oceanfront weeks were selling for $50K.

Hope this helps you decide where to purchase your Ocean Pointe week....

Best of luck!
 

gmarine

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As others have said, slow down. If your not absolutely positive that you want to buy it, dont do it. Your paying way too much for the ability to trade for points. This is even more true with the change in the point system. And most importantly, dont even consider buying if you are financing it.

Take your time, look around before you do anything and then buy a resale if you are still interested.. Resale prices are dropping all the time. Here is a recent sale of a annual platinum unit.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=220302803381
 

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STOP!!!

You can buy platinum (winter) 2BR timeshares at Ocean Pointe for about $12K and gold (summer) units for about $9K.
Actually, you might be able to do a lot better than these prices. A two bedroom, annual platinum week at Ocean Pointe sold recently on eBay for $9600.

Steve
 

thinze3

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Actually, you might be able to do a lot better than these prices. A two bedroom, annual platinum week at Ocean Pointe sold recently on eBay for $9600.

Steve
I started to quote eBay prices, but figured a first time buyer may not feel so comfortable purchasing there. Buying a timeshare off eBay may not be for the faint of heart. ;)

Great deal on that Ocean Pointe for somebody, by the way. If Ocean Pointe had a platinum winter & summer season like BeachPlace, I would have probably bought there instead.

Terry
 

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Here's an easy way to figure the worth of Marriott Reward Points:

Anyone can buy 50,000 Marriott Reward Points directly from Marriott for $625 per year. And, if married, your spouse is entitled to do the same thing.

That said, you can directly purchase 100,000 points per year for $1,250 from Marriott with or without having to buy a timeshare (and paying the annual maintenance fees).

Now, I believe Ocean Pointe is 100% sold out, so any unit you buy from Ocean Pointe would be a resale, so Marriott is selling you a resale week.

If you buy a resale from anyone other than Marriott you can spend an additional $1,250 per year and obtain your points EVERY year; and as others have posted you will likely save yourselves $10K or more off of the purchase price.

Last I heard, Platinum Ocean Pointe oceanview weeks were selling for $38K and the oceanfront weeks were selling for $50K.

Hope this helps you decide where to purchase your Ocean Pointe week....

Best of luck!
Our 3 bedroom OF unit has a MF that's in the $1,400 range (haven't received the exact figures yet). It exchanges for 100,000 points every other year. If you can buy 100,000 points directly from Marriott for $1,250, why would you ever want to buy a unit just to be able to exchange every other year for Marriott rewards points?

Keep in mind that MF's tend to go up between 5 and 12% each year and, in the 7 years we've owned at Ocean Pointe, Marriott has made at least two adjustment to the rewards program that have devalued the points. This years devaluation took 7 night air/hotel packages to 5 night packages.

IMO, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER buy a timeshare based on a promise which has built in wording that it can be changed at any time by the organization offering the deal.
 

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Thanks everyone for the help. The info here in the forum and site and the advice you guys gave led me to tell them "sorry, I'm not comfortable jumping into this without more thought and research" and we walked away. The wife certainly still wants to do this though....and I will say, the Marriott pitch was the most convincing and interesting we had ever heard (not that we have heard many or anything). I'm sure I'll have some follow-up questions though. It seems as far as points are concerned you can only buy up to 100k/year /couple from what I've been able to gather. I think we still want to be in one of the "systems" but appreciate the advice on getting something w/ a better price/point exchange. The more I started comparing the price of the TS to what you could get on a points exchange I did start getting annoyed. Like I told the wife, it still would not have been the worst purchase, as it was "feel good" like some car sales...but it's paying the highest price possible for that commodity. Thanks!
 

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Now that we seem to have settled the question of, "Is it worth it to pay developer price for the right to exchange for points?" I can tell you that of all the timeshares we own, we enjoy Ocean Pointe the most. Cheryl the manager there has done a fantastic job of maintaining the resort, giving owners what they want and, IMO, keeping the MF's reasonable for what they are providing. Of the seven timeshares we own it would be the last one we'd consider getting rid of.

It's just that you can pay so much less buying resale than buying through Marriott. We did purchase through Marriott bad in 2001 and paid $19,900 for our 3 bedroom Silver season ocean front unit. Purchase incentives included a 7 night cruise on either Royal Caribbean or Celebrity, which we used for a northbound 7 night Alaskan cruise and an exchange certificate which we used to go to Scotland. Total value of the incentives was around $2,500 which would bring our purchase price down to $17,400.

I suppose that's not as bad as it could be but, I probably could have saved myself $10,000 had we purchased resale and just paid for the Cruise and rented a place to stay in Scotland. Exchanging for points "sounded" great to us as well but, reality has been that they're just not worth it. Especially with the changes both Marriott has made and airlines have made to their FF programs. What seemed like a good idea in 2001 hasn't worked out quite as well as we had hoped. I will never buy based on a promise which can be changed at their whim again.
 

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To the OP, I would simply ask "what is your ultimate goal of ownership?" Sit down and determine if destination travel is the right thing for you. If the answer is yes, step back & take your time examining how you could best achieve your goals. There are a lot of things in play with MVC at this moment in time such as MR devaluation so any potential buyer should look closely and carefully at what is going on before buying developer. Do the "what-if" calculus of how you might use your weeks. Work through all of the likely scenerios you might choose and see where you are most comfortable. Resale could indeed be a viable alternative.

. . . Especially with the changes both Marriott has made and airlines have made to their FF programs. What seemed like a good idea in 2001 hasn't worked out quite as well as we had hoped. I will never buy based on a promise which can be changed at their whim again . . .
Let's put a little perspective upon Doug's purchase.

He buys developer in 2001 when Ocean Pointe is a new resort in the early stages of development. Better question to ask is what does MVC sell a silver 3BR OF unit for today? Before others jump in with their hatchets, let's acknowledge that the present market conditions make it very difficult for anyone to set a rock-hard selling price -- all the more reason for any buyer to beware. But until recently, there was indeed a definitive developer price for that week.

My point is that Doug has enjoyed 7 years of ownership for the cost of his MFs. There's an aesthetic element involved here which derives from the time and the experiences as well. The other aspect Doug notes is the value derived from the purchase incentives which one can indeed subtract from the purchase cost if you're trying to establish a bottom line. The key here is how you utilize the points you receive as a purchase incentive.

What's really going on at this moment is that the financial market seizure which is locking up capital also affects folks trying to make decisions about timeshare. Thus far, Marriott has responded by sticking to developer prices ( and watching sales nearly evaporate ) whilst also allowing resale inventory to basically set it's own price by eschewing ROFR. In truth, it's about the only move that Marriott can make at the moment. It's going to be some many months at least before anyone finally gets an idea of when consumers will once again return to discretionary purchases and at what price.

For those of us who own MVC, it's a simple matter of pay your MF and utilize your weeks in one of the 4 ways that developer ownership allows ( 3 ways for resale folks ). In essence it's timeshare 101 of purchase where you want to visit and develop a usage strategy.

I think that the "sticky" part of this MVC situation revolves more around how long one has owned MVC. Those folks who came in several years ago and purchase developer likely feel a bit more comfortable since their purchase price is lower. More recent purchasers will feel more angst towards MVC because the entire developer market has seized up. It's natural to fear that the bottom will drop out, but IMO, it's too early to predict what is going to happen with developer pricing. In truth, this subprime mess ( and tumbling real estate prices ) is more acute in certain parts of the country than others. We timeshare folks simply got to sit back and wait and watch how this larger debacle plays out before any of us can come to a defining conclusion about what's going to happen with our timeshare resorts.

I'm more optimistic that things will sort themselves out and that the effect upon our resorts will vary according to the region and the market around the resort ( an ocean front resort will always be an ocean front resort & demand and supply will indeed assert itself . . . "when" is the great unknown ). In the interim, we can only wait and enjoy utilizing our weeks.

Folks pondering a purchase simply need do their homework and check it several times before pulling the timeshare trigger.

Barry
 

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Barry,

Just to be clear, we are very happy with our Ocean Pointe ownership and not necessarily unhappy we bought through Marriott. As you mentioned, OP was still a relatively new resort back in 2001 with only 2 of 5 buildings completed when we were there. The third building was nearly completed at that time.

I am very glad that we bought our unit for personal usage with Marriott Reward points only as a value added benefit. Even with the lower developer price we paid, the ever increasing MF's and ever decreasing value of MR Points are making it tougher to validate exchanging our week for points. I currently have 545,000 points. Unitl Jan 1, that would be enough for 240,000 FF miles and 14 nights in a catagory 6 hotel. After Jan. 1 the hotel nights will go down to 10 nights. Depending on the hotel that could be a loss in value of $500 to $1,000 in value. I look for the value of MR points to continue to decline while MF's will, of course, continue to increase.

Buying a timeshare for anything but personal use is fool hardy at best. I would never allow a salesman to use that as an excuse to buy from the developer rather than buying resale if I can find the style unit I want in the season I want at a much better price.

BTW, in December of 2007, the developer price of a 3 bedroom ocean front unit was $27,900. It was the same price in 2006 when we went through the owners update tour at that time. We did not do an update tour in 2008.
 

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I am really sorry for first time purchasers that see this board and think buying resale is the only way to go, which is wrong. We need to give all sides to make sure people know exactly what they are purchasing and what they are not getting with resale. There are definite benefits to the points system, even with the future devaluation. In my mind, there was no other way but direct purchase and I have been very happy with our decision and with the great vacations we are planning with points. There are many on this board who feel the same.
 
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I am really sorry for first time purchasers that see this board and think buying resale is the only way to go, which is wrong.
I feel much more sorry for the first time purchasers that sit through a sales presentation with Marriott and think that buying from the developer is the only way to go. That's REALLY wrong. Especially when they could save thousands (in some cases tens of thousands) of dollars by purchasing resale.

Steve
 

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I feel much more sorry for the first time purchasers that sit through a sales presentation with Marriott and think that buying from the developer is the only way to go. That's REALLY wrong. Especially when they could save thousands (in some cases tens of thousands) of dollars by purchasing resale.

Steve
I agree with Steve. Our first timeshare purchase was a resale at Ko'Olina. It didn't take too long for us to realize that this was a mistake. (Nothing wrong with the resort or the Marriott system, both of which we love. This ownership just didn't make sense for us.) Because we purchased resale we were able to turn around and sell for roughly what we paid. Had we made the same mistake with a developer purchase it would have cost us at least 10K.


There is nothing wrong with buying from Marriott for the points if that's the way you want to go. Many TUGgers have done just that. The problem is that if one makes that decision without a good understanding of the system and a realistic idea of what their vacation plans and needs actually are, they could end up losing a lot of money.
 
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Latravel

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"There is nothing wrong with buying from Marriott for the points if that's the way you want to go. Many TUGgers have done just that. The problem is that if one makes that decision without a good understanding of the system and a realistic idea of what their vacation plans and needs actually are,..."

..they could lose out on some really amazing vacations that they normally could not afford without participation in a points program.

It could go both ways but I agree with this point - unless you know what your needs are, you could chose an option that may not work for you. That is why a one-size-fits-all answer could be doing a disservice to a potential buyer of a timeshare. At least when people speak up for both sides, potential buyers can see the pros and cons of both purchase options.
 
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dougp26364

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"There is nothing wrong with buying from Marriott for the points if that's the way you want to go. Many TUGgers have done just that. The problem is that if one makes that decision without a good understanding of the system and a realistic idea of what their vacation plans and needs actually are,..."

..they could lose out on some really amazing vacations that they normally could not afford without participation in a points program.

It could go both ways but I agree with this point - unless you know what your needs are, you could chose an option that may not work for you. That is why a one-size-fits-all answer could be doing a disservice to a potential buyer of a timeshare. At least when people speak up for both sides, potential buyers can see the pros and cons of both purchase options.
Keeping in mind that a married couple can buy 100,000 MR points for less than the MF at Ocean Pointe, I hardly think buying from the developer would make any sense to anyone other than a salesman from Marriott. On what planey does it make sense to spend $1,400 for 100,000 points vs buying them direct from Marriott for less than $1,300.

You'll have a tough time using real numbers to get anyone to side with you that buying from the developer in this case makes any sense at all. Developer pricing for 3 bedroom units using December 2006 numbers: Platinum $49,900 Gold $35,300 and Silver $27,900. All of these can trade EOY for points. Points values are Platinum 3 bedroom OF 125,000 points, Gold 110,000 points and Silver 100,000 points.

At this time I find no way to justify buying direct from Marriott at Ocean Pointe just because you'll be able to exchange for points. It's just not worth it when you compare developer prices, resale prices and the fact anyone can just buy points direct from Marriott for LESS than the MF's at Ocean Pointe.
 

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You forget to mention the very large number of points you receive when you purchase that makes up for the price difference. Without this incentive, I would agree with you. After you make up for the price difference, it's very nice to be able to choose to trade your unit for vacations to great places where there are no timeshares.

You also forget to mention that 100,000 points that you purchase cannot buy you anything. You need a lot more than that to get a vacation. I think Marriott intended that option as a way to make up for the points you are missing.

I believe those are the main reasons people purchase from Marriott, at least for me. Since most people purchase from Marriott (isn't only 3% purchase resale?), are you saying all those people are from another planet? For you, buying resale was the right choice, but for thousand others, it was not. Maybe you know something they don't? :shrug: I have to say that buying anything right now is probably not a good idea since both resale and developer prices will probably go down in price.
 
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they could lose out on some really amazing vacations that they normally could not afford without participation in a points program.


If they discover they made a mistake and want the points they can rectify that by purchasing directly from Marriott (or, better yet, buy points without a ts purchase as Doug suggested.)

There is a big difference between missing out on some potential vacations and losing 10k+ on an expensive timeshare that you can't afford and/or don't want.
 

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In all these discussions, I never see the fee that Marriott charges to redeem the week for points ever brought up. Has Marriott done away this fee?
 

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I think it's $104.

"There is a big difference between missing out on some potential vacations and losing 10k+ on an expensive timeshare that you can't afford and/or don't want."

Firstly, you are not losing 10K+, you are getting incentive points that can buy you a vacation worth even more than that. But, if you can't afford the purchase, points (and what they may get you) are irrelevant to you. I hope that if someone cannot afford the timeshare or doesn't want it, they won't purchase, whether resale or direct. If you can't afford it, you shouldn't buy.
 
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I think it's $104.

"There is a big difference between missing out on some potential vacations and losing 10k+ on an expensive timeshare that you can't afford and/or don't want."

Firstly, you are not losing 10K+, you are getting incentive points that can buy you a vacation worth even more than that. But, if you can't afford the purchase, points (and what they may get you) are irrelevant to you. I hope that if someone cannot afford the timeshare or doesn't want it, they won't purchase, whether resale or direct. If you can't afford it, you shouldn't buy.

I have never seen or heard of Marriott giving away incentive points worth $10,000 for the purchase of one weeks timeshare. I have seen packages put together based on multiple weeks purchased AND additional points given for keeping double digit financint through Marriott. A deal that Marriott terminated leaving those unable to pay off the loans without the promised points for financing with Marriott.
 
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