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Buying direct after previously purchasing resale

Latravel

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I think the salesmen try to get you to finance because it makes extra money for Marriott. That's why they pushed financing on us though we stated we did not want it. In fact, they even suggested a program where Marriott would give points for every month you financed up to 6 months. We did consider financing for just 6 months for the extra points but we decided against it. I am sure there are a lot of people who financed for just the 6 months to get the points, then paid it off.

When we purchased our latest last month, there were 4 couples waiting for the finance person to finish up. I talked with 2 and they both mentioned they weren't financing. Including us that would make 3 out of 4. This is in no way any type of statistical analysis but it's interesting information. Personally, I thought this was a depressed economy but there are still people out there buying.
 
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tombo

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Three years ago approximately 50% of Marriott buyers financed their purchases through Marriott. I'm guessing that the percentage hasn't changed much since then.

I was wrong on that one. I am surprised that half the buyers can pay $25,000 to $50,000 or more to buy a week and pay cash. I assumed that more than half of the buyers were working people who would have to finance.
 

grgs

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I was wrong on that one. I am surprised that half the buyers can pay $25,000 to $50,000 or more to buy a week and pay cash. I assumed that more than half of the buyers were working people who would have to finance.

Just because they didn't finance the purchase with Marriott doesn't mean they didn't finance it at all. I imagine a lot of people use HELOCs for timeshare purchases.

Glorian
 

mickeypops

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I am also considering buying another gold week at the Marbella Beach Resort to add to one we bought from Marriott three years. I would defintely buy it resale. They seem to be going for about half what I paid Marriott for the week we own st the moment.

The main difference between buying direct and resale seems to be the ability to swap for points if bought direct.

I just don't get it at all. Am I missing something or just plain stupid?

The maintenace fees for my 2BR gold week come to about £588 after converting from Euros. I can swap my week for 100,000 points if I pay a $124 fee or £65. So, obtaining these points would cost a total of £653.

I can buy 50,000 points for me, and another 50,000 for my wife from Marriott for a total of $1,250, or about £650. If I trade my week for points, I have derived absolutely zero benefit from investing the initial purchase price.

Another way of looking at it is this. I can redeem my week for 100,000. If I wanted to use points to book my week or similar at another MVC resort, it would cost me 150,000 points. So as well as charging a fee to exchange for points, Marriott then use my week to make a 50,000 points "profit" for themselves. My 100,000 won't quite buy me a week in a category 4 hotel, which is a considerable downgrade from a 2 BR MVC villa.

No -to my mind the benefits of MVC timeshare is all about using my week for a great holiday, either at my home resort - which is what I've always done - or possibly organising an exchange to another resort.

As for the points redemption benefit, it just doesn't add up. It's resale for me - I'd much rather save around £8,000 on the purchase price!
 

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Has anyone purchased an additional week from Marriott after having bought their first week on the resale market?

We currently own a week which we bought resale. If we were to buy another week, but were to purchase it from the Marriott would that enable us to qualify for the "benefits*" of a direct sale (i.e. removes the dreaded "resale" flag in their system), or does anyone know whether Marriott continues to treat the the other property as resale?

I know, I know... who would buy from Marriott after learning of the savings in the second hand market, but I'm just trying two understand ALL the advantages of buying direct or resale on our next purchase.

Jason

Yes, Jason. We did that. With all of our knowledge about resale - we did it anyway. We bought a Marriott Manor Club - platinum - for points. NOT for the dreaded red flag- I don't believe in that.

I would tell you - good deal - 19,500, tons of points (forget how many) including some because they let you refer yourself. BUT - I regret it (even though I did book Hawaii using those points:cheer: ) because the point system with the airlines is a MESS. Points are only worth it if you buy travel packages, and it's so hard to get airline miles. I found the whole experience tiring and frustrating. I settled for premium amount of points for my flight.

I could have bought the tickets with the money I would have saved buying developer.
 

Zac495

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Thanks, Kathy. I figured points wouldn't be available. I guess I was just fishing for any other advantages to having one Marriott purchase in a portfolio of multiple resale purchase.

I guess the only advantage would be is that we could get the $150 voucher each time (which we can't do currently) or perhaps use of the Marriott vacation planner.

Thanks Dioxide. Bingo... that's what I was truly getting at. I was wondering if Marriott will somehow sweeten the pot, or if they have for other Tuggers.

The Vacation planner is a JOKE. Since I am a "real" owner - here's what happens. I call Marriott and it directly rings her line. If she's there, she answers. If she's not, or she's on another line (most of the time), it allows me to leave her a message or wait for the next agent.

I used the next agent for my whole Hawaii trade - she was great - she wasn't "my" planner. It doesn't matter. That's a stupid "perk."
 

Icarus

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Heidi,

There's a lot of ways to fly overseas first class without paying 15k for the tickets. Personally, I'd never pay that much, but I fly in Business and First Class overseas whenever I fly overseas.

If you want to use retail figures to convince yourself that those point options are worth it, so be it. But I don't think you'll really ever be able to convince that many people that it's a value play. But feel free to keep trying. :)

-David
 

KathyPet

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Icarus, I would really like to hear any tips you have on how to fly overseas in business or first class and avoid paying the hefty ticket prices that the airlines want for those tickets. Tips and suggestions please!
 

Latravel

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I agree - please share the tips!

I think we use the points system effectively so we get good value from the system but others may not feel it is worth the extra cost in the purchase price. I still think it's important to show both sides on this issue. Since most people buy directly from Marriott, I don't have to convince anyone of anything. Maybe they know something?:shrug:

Back to the important point - what are your tips?
 

Icarus

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Different methods work for different people.

Depending on the airline, you can buy coach tickets and upgrade them to business class with miles. Or you can buy business class tickets and upgrade them with miles. Not all airlines charge hefty fees for doing that, and typically the mileage is far lower than the award mileage. You have to know the rules for the upgrades in order to use this strategy. Each airline is different, and as I mentioned, some charge hefty fees for international upgrades, and some don't.

Some people also buy tickets from consolidators that can be much cheaper than the retail price charged by the airline.

The other way to do it is to get top tier status in an airline program, and some of them come with system-wide upgrades that can be used on certain discount fares. Depending on the airline and their available promotions, you might be able to attain that status by flying on mileage runs, which will entail some cost to you, but the benefits of the status, the miles earned (including tier bonuses, etc) and the system-wide upgrades may be worth much more than the money it costs to attain status.

Different things work for different people. The first step would be to find the right airline program for you based not only on cost of flying, but on the cost of international upgrades and how they charge taxes and fees for those upgrades and what fare classes can be upgraded, and then concentrate your flying and credit card usage so that all your miles are going into that program, either directly, or indirectly through the use of alliance partners. Doing so will also give you a head start on getting EQMs on that airline towards attaining status with that airline program.

There are several people on TUG that have 1k status on United. Some of us have attained and maintained that status via use of mileage runs. Those are the people that tend to fly overseas in business and first without paying business or first prices. I'm sure you can do it with other mileage programs also, but I'm not as familiar with them as United's program.

Personally, I've been overseas twice this year. I went to Bangkok and Singapore in May in business class at coach prices (using VDB vouchers for most of the fare) and to Singapore in July using miles in First. I also have another trip planned to Thailand using miles.

Both United and American had double EQM promotions this year, which made it very easy to reach 1k for next year. Unfortunately those promotions are over now. You have to keep up to date with the stuff if you're serious about it.

Miles and points can also be purchased, sometimes at a discount. You have to also plan that out and determine if the price/point or mile being charged is worth it for you. Planning comes into play because, as with Marriott, you may be limited to the number of points you can purchase in a given period.

I think the other thing to remember about the value of those promo points from the developer is that most of us would never actually buy a first class ticket to Europe or Asia if we didn't have those promo points. You pay for them one way or the other, and on paper or at the sales presentation, the sales presentation always makes sense, but I don't think they do in a true value proposition.

However, I recognize that my method of looking at these things is not the same as yours. Both of our methods are very subjective. So, if you think it's worth it to buy from the developer at developer prices, who am I to say it isn't worth it for you? What I can say with a very clear conscious is that for most people, the better deal is to buy on the resale market.

-David
 
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Icarus

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Also, there's lots of different ways to earn airline miles in addition to the common methods of flying and using an affiliated credit card. (speaking of which, you can often get multiple sign-up bonuses for affiliated credit cards.)

The most famous method was when a guy dubbed "pudding guy" found a way to collect over 1,000,000 AA miles with a Healthy Choice pudding promo. You can do a google search to read his story. Also, his story was used by Paul Thomas Anderson as a backstory in one of his movies.

Most mileage programs have tie ins with various retailers if you link through to the retailer using the airline programs mileage mall, and many offer promos for every day purchases that can double or triple your miles for things you do everyday. Of course the hard part of that is reconciling the mileage earning power with the actual usefulness of using that program. For example, Delta has a good mileage earning card, however miles on Delta and Skyteam are useless to me.

-David
 
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KathyPet

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David, A few years ago I traveled a lot for my employer and reached platinum plus status on United. Now I am retired and no longer have any status. I think that most of us on this board are strictly leisure travelers so getting enough flights for any type of status is not possible.
I do agree with you about using miles to upgrade from coach to business or first class can work and of course you spend less miles that way. I just made reservations on United to fly to Anchorage next June for a cruise. I paid $1000 per person for the tickets in coach and then applied on line for a upgrade to Business Class using points. I got my upgrade with no trouble but it still is not a small amount of miles required to do this. Also you never can be sure that you will be able to upgrade your flight to business class until after you have booked and paid for your coach tickets. If you don't get your upgrade then y0u are stuck in coach.
You are lucky (I guess considering how bad airline service is these days) to still be working and getting mileage for business travel but you must admit that for most of us that is not possible as we simply do not fly enough to get any of these perks.
 

Icarus

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David, A few years ago I traveled a lot for my employer and reached platinum plus status on United. Now I am retired and no longer have any status. I think that most of us on this board are strictly leisure travelers so getting enough flights for any type of status is not possible.

That's not true. You can do it with mileage runs, especially when the airlines have promotions. There are at least two people on TUG that I know about that have kept their status by doing mileage runs. (I don't use the strict definition of the term mileage run. What I mean is plan extra trips you wouldn't ordinarily take for the purpose of attaining/keeping status.)

I do agree with you about using miles to upgrade from coach to business or first class can work and of course you spend less miles that way. I just made reservations on United to fly to Anchorage next June for a cruise. I paid $1000 per person for the tickets in coach and then applied on line for a upgrade to Business Class using points. I got my upgrade with no trouble but it still is not a small amount of miles required to do this. Also you never can be sure that you will be able to upgrade your flight to business class until after you have booked and paid for your coach tickets. If you don't get your upgrade then y0u are stuck in coach.
You are lucky (I guess considering how bad airline service is these days) to still be working and getting mileage for business travel but you must admit that for most of us that is not possible as we simply do not fly enough to get any of these perks.

I have never flown enough to reach 1k for work. I have to do extra trips spending my own money to attain and keep 1k status. My replies were geared specifically to people that don't fly enough to get and keep status.

It's definitely possible to attain and maintain top tier status without traveling on company business. It all depends on how much work and effort you want to put into it. If you read FT, you will find lots of examples of people that have figured out how to do just that with a minimum spend.

Also, that was not the only method I listed of being able to fly in First and Business without paying full fare.

And yes, upgrades are by no means guaranteed, but if you know how to work the system, you may be able to find flights with either open upgrade seats or those that are likely to have available seats. If you are traveling with a large party, it may be difficult to find upgradeable seats for everybody in the party. Also, the higher your status level, the more chance you give yourself of clearing an upgrade. And at least on United, once you make the lowest level status tier, you are eligible for Economy plus seating if you do end up in coach.

-David
 
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Latravel

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So, basically, you are suggesting that using points/miles is the best way to avoid paying high cost airfare? My point exactly.

My husband is Medallion status on Delta and Premier Plus on United due to his travels with his business. We rarely ever pay for any ticket much less first/business class since he usually gets upgraded for free. I can tell you that without those points, we would not fly as often as we do and definitely not ever business/first class. We know the value of points (as you seem to also), and if someone learns to use/manipulate the system, they can definitely save money. Just like we accumulate Delta Skymile points (through business travel and AmEx card), we collect Marriott points (through timeshares and Visa card).

There's no magic "tip" or any way around the fact that a business/first class ticket is expensive and points are an effective tool to offset that cost, however you like to downplay that fact.
 

KathyPet

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Some comments:
1. Selecting one airline and concentrating all your efforts on gaining status on one airline only works if that airline flies everywhere you might want to go. e.g On our trip to Anchorage for our cruise we are flying United to Seattle but then have to take Continental to Anchorage because United does not fly there.
2. Taking mileage runs to "top off" an account to maintain a certain status on a airline and thus be eligible for "free" upgrades hardly makes sense for individuals who only fly once or twice a year and have virtually no accumulated status or miles with any airline to start with
3. Getting a affinity card with a airline and charging everything you can on it can help but you usually only get one point or mile for normal purchases which means that it can take a very long time to accumulate enough points for any kind of "free" flight. Besides I think a lot of Marriott owners already have the Marriott VISA card that they use to boost their Marriott Reward points in that fashion including triple points for charging their maintenace fees.
4. Buying miles on a airline is fine but then why shouldn't I buy MR points if I need to get some additional points for a trip?

So I am back to my original position. For those of us who are not flying for business and who fly infrequently the Marriott Reward points we get for trading our timeshares are a wonderful perk. It allows us to accumulate a large # of points at once, something it would otherwise take us years to do.
 

Icarus

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There's no magic "tip" or any way around the fact that a business/first class ticket is expensive and points are an effective tool to offset that cost, however you like to downplay that fact.

I don't think I'm downplaying anything, actually.

It's always a cost/benefit thing. All I've been saying is that I don't agree with your position on the cost/benefit of buying from the developer.

You know, it's ok if we disagree.

-David
 

Icarus

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Some comments:
1. Selecting one airline and concentrating all your efforts on gaining status on one airline only works if that airline flies everywhere you might want to go. e.g On our trip to Anchorage for our cruise we are flying United to Seattle but then have to take Continental to Anchorage because United does not fly there.
2. Taking mileage runs to "top off" an account to maintain a certain status on a airline and thus be eligible for "free" upgrades hardly makes sense for individuals who only fly once or twice a year and have virtually no accumulated status or miles with any airline to start with
3. Getting a affinity card with a airline and charging everything you can on it can help but you usually only get one point or mile for normal purchases which means that it can take a very long time to accumulate enough points for any kind of "free" flight. Besides I think a lot of Marriott owners already have the Marriott VISA card that they use to boost their Marriott Reward points in that fashion including triple points for charging their maintenace fees.
4. Buying miles on a airline is fine but then why shouldn't I buy MR points if I need to get some additional points for a trip?

So I am back to my original position. For those of us who are not flying for business and who fly infrequently the Marriott Reward points we get for trading our timeshares are a wonderful perk. It allows us to accumulate a large # of points at once, something it would otherwise take us years to do.

You know, again, it's ok if you don't think it will work for you, without going into details on those points you made, which are not exactly accurate. I listed a combination of techniques which are not the only ones, because you asked.

If it doesn't work for you, that's fine, but there are many other people it does work for, and the methods can all be combined to find the best ones that work for you.

Again, it's ok if we simply agree to disagree that buying from the developer for the points option and the bonus points they give you at purchase time is effective cost/benefit wise or not. I'm happy it works for you, but that doesn't mean it would work for me or anybody else.

BTW, eventually CO and UA will be in the same alliance, but nobody knows exactly when that will happen. But it is happening. I was wondering how you were flying to ANC next year on UA.

-David
 
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KathyPet

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We are flying United from Dulles to Seattle and then taking Continental from Seattle to Anchorage. Returning from Vancouver so United from Vancouver to Chicago to Dulles. We also could have gone United to Las Vegas and then US Air to Anchorage. We chose the Dulles to Seattle route because we cannot use united miles to upgrade to business class on US Air and we wanted to spend as little time as possible in coach so flying Seattle to Anchorage takes less time then Las Vegas to Anchorage. All the United segments were upgraded to business class using United miles that I still have from my business travel days although they are dwindling quickly.
 

icydog

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You know, again, it's ok if you don't think it will work for you, without going into details on those points you made, which are not exactly accurate. I listed a combination of techniques which are not the only ones, because you asked.

If it doesn't work for you, that's fine, but there are many other people it does work for, and the methods can all be combined to find the best ones that work for you.

Again, it's ok if we simply agree to disagree that buying from the developer for the points option and the bonus points they give you at purchase time is effective cost/benefit wise or not. I'm happy it works for you, but that doesn't mean it would work for me or anybody else.

BTW, eventually CO and UA will be in the same alliance, but nobody knows exactly when that will happen. But it is happening. I was wondering how you were flying to ANC next year on UA.

-David


I am elite now on CO. I will not be next year because of the high cost to gain those miles. At the end of the year we will have only 15K miles. Is it worth it to do mileage runs for the other 10K? I really don't see how I can justify the cost of the extra trips with the cost per mile going up so much. I travel only for leisure. Next year we are going to stay closer to home and avoid air travel as much as we can. Will I miss being Elite. Yes, but I will live.
 
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