Buying direct after previously purchasing resale

[Jpollo]

Has anyone purchased an additional week from Marriott after having bought their first week on the resale market?

We currently own a week which we bought resale. If we were to buy another week, but were to purchase it from the Marriott would that enable us to qualify for the "benefits*" of a direct sale (i.e. removes the dreaded "resale" flag in their system), or does anyone know whether Marriott continues to treat the the other property as resale?

I know, I know... who would buy from Marriott after learning of the savings in the second hand market, but I'm just trying two understand ALL the advantages of buying direct or resale on our next purchase.

Jason

 

[KathyPet]

If you are referring to the MR points option that would only apply to the unit you purchased directly from Marriott. they are not going to allow you to have that benefit on your resale purchase.

 

[dioxide45]

You may be able to get Marriott to fold your resale unit in and allow it to trade for points. When talking to the sales rep tell them you won't buy unless they do it. It can and has been done. You will probably have to be buying in a Platinum or higher season at a high end property. Not saying it will happen, but it doesn't hurt to ask.

 

[Jpollo]

Thanks, Kathy. I figured points wouldn't be available. I guess I was just fishing for any other advantages to having one Marriott purchase in a portfolio of multiple resale purchase.

I guess the only advantage would be is that we could get the $150 voucher each time (which we can't do currently) or perhaps use of the Marriott vacation planner.

Thanks Dioxide. Bingo... that's what I was truly getting at. I was wondering if Marriott will somehow sweeten the pot, or if they have for other Tuggers.

 

[Dave M]

I'm not sure what the $150 voucher is that you are referring to. Can you explain? I own multiple weeks purchased directly from Marriott and don't get any such vouchers.

Also, as explained in one of the many FAQ links at the top of the list of topics for this Marriott forum, all Marriott owners (resale and developer purchasers) have access to "Vacation Ownership Advisors" (vacation planners). The only difference is that if you buy from Marriott you are automatically assigned to one. If you buy resale, you can take three minutes to call Owner Services and ask to have one assigned to you.

As it currently stands, the only ownership disadvantage of owning a resale week is not having the option to trade the use of a week for Marriott Rewards points. That's the only current reason for Marriott designating your week as a resale in its computers - so that a rep doesn't make a mistake and issue points if you were to ask to trade. Even with that “R”, sometimes they make mistakes, as has been reported here, and extend points to resale owners.

Whether there will be other differences later on is anyone's guess. However, all of the early info from Marriott (before the higher-ups clammed up) was that existing resale owners as of the date of a change (e.g., a six-month reservation system) would be grandfathered from a disadvantageous change affecting only resale owners.

 

[london]

Direct Buy and Resale

Appears the benefits of a direct purchase, vs a resale would have to be weighed on economic terms.

Let's assume you can save five to ten thousand on a resale unit.

How could the direct purchase of a unit obtain five or ten thousand in additional benefits vs the resale buyer?

 

[Dave M]

Just as we often buy something other than the least expensive car, TV or brand of ice cream, not every timeshare purchase decision has to be evaluated on economic terms. Here, for example, is a post by JimC earlier today with some of the more common reasons for buying directly from Marriott.

And as for economics, Brian ("pwrshift") is one who can expound very well on how the incentive points and points in lieu of use during preconstruction years can easily make up the difference in price - if the points are used wisely for that once-in-a-lifetime business-class air trip to an expensive European (for example) Marriott.

 

[Jpollo]

Dave M, the $150 I mentioned was in reference to the dollars you get for sitting through a presentation. At my resort they offer it only to the owners, although last year they let us slip through and we received our credit vouchers. And thanks for pointing out the FAQ - I've been here for a month or two and was totally blind to them. I think I'll sit back and sift through those tonight.

By the way, one of my non-economic reasons for buying a Marriott TS was simply the service. We stayed at a Marriott resort once and the service and friendliness of the staff was unlike any other vacation we've had. We bought a Marriott TS (resale) and with every stay I'm just amazed at the incredible service.

 

[Dave M]

Ah ha! Those dollars, restaurant or entertainment certificates or Marriott Rewards points (depending on the resort and what you choose) are yours if you sit through a presentation - whether or not you buy from Marriott. Thus, as either a resale owner, a direct-purchase owner or a non-owner, you can generally get such incentives.

 

[Latravel]

Let's assume you can save five to ten thousand on a resale unit.

How could the direct purchase of a unit obtain five or ten thousand in additional benefits vs the resale buyer?

That is easy to answer. When you purchase direct, you get a large number of incentive points. We received enough points for a vacation worth over $15,000. That was over the difference of price between direct and resale alone, immediately when we signed the papers.

 

[tombo]

I can't imagine a vacation to any destination that with air fare and room would cost $15,000. $1000 a night for a room (that will get you a really nice room in Dubai) for 7 nights is $7000 which leaves $8000 in expenses for air fare. That isn't first class, that is a charter jet.

A lot of times here I think people inflate what theses points actually buy to justify their retail purchases. Whatever points used to be worth for airfare, their value has to be dismally lower now and next to impossible to redeem if they are traded for frequent flyer miles. My frequent flyer miles have been drastically reduced in value over the past 6 months and the availability of FF seats on many flights are non-existent.

You can purchase 100,000 points per year per couple from what other owners have said for $1250.00. That is a retail price for points. Using Marriott's retail price, you would have to receive 1.1 million points to equate to a $15,000 higher retail purchase over buying resale for $15,000 less. If they are only giving you 500,000 points to buy direct, then using their own retail dollar value for points you should only pay $6250 over resale prices. This is if you even feel that the 500,000 points are worth $6250.

 

[m61376]

Tombo-
I tend to agree with you. I think people need to consider what they would likely spend for the value; for example, while I agree that business class tickets (or first class even better) would be more enjoyable, and if I had unlimited funds or were in that type of financial situation I might always travel that way, I have been overseas many times and managed in coach seats. Since that would be what I would likely spend on a trip to London, Rome, etc., I think it is only fair that I calculate that into my value. Likewise, I have never stayed in a $1000 a night hotel, and have managed to find reasonably priced places, even though some have been top rated (like my stay in the Hotel D'Artes in Barcelona for $127 per night a few years back). So, while I realize the dollar has dropped, last time I was in London the exchange rate was still 1.92:1, so it wasn't great either and, for me at least, that one week trip doesn't have a $15,000 value, although admittedly for others who might regularly travel that way it might.

 

[Dave M]

... which leaves $8000 in expenses for air fare. That isn't first class, that is a charter jet.

Price such a trip for yourself. I picked St. Louis to Paris in late June to early July next summer - a period roughly matching the approximate time when a lot of people like to vacation.

Business class on any major U.S. airline exceeds $7,000 for two tickets. First class exceeds $15,000! Pick a destination in Asia or Australia / New Zealand for that once-in-a-lifetime trip and the costs are likely to be even higher.

I'll be flying to Australia and back from New Zealand in January-February 2009. There's no way I could afford to pay to fly first class. But with FF miles (part of what comes with Marriott air-hotel packages), I'll be flying first class for that trip. To me, that one-time experience will be priceless.

 

[thinze3]

.... To me, that one-time experience will be priceless.

... and will probably cover the premium expense of TWO developer purchases.

Good for you!


Terry

 

[Latravel]

Tombo, I can't understand your analysis but my point is really quite simple.

If you've ever flown first class, you will know that those tickets are very expensive. We had to pay the 10% taxes on a first class ticket from Los Angeles to Paris. The taxes alone were $810 therefore, the ticket was $8100. So 2 first class tickets were $16,200. Add in 7 nights at a high category hotel in Paris and you'll see I underestimated the cost of the trip.

I used $15,000 because that was the price difference between my direct purchase and resale price. Since the trip was worth more than $15,000, I came out ahead with my Marriott direct purchase. No one has to over inflate information since these are facts that can easily be checked if one spends the time. On the otherhand, some people may not want to know these facts in order to justify a resale purchase.

 

[KathyPet]

Just checked flights on cheap tickets.com for a flight leaving Dulles on 10/3 to Paris returning 10/10. Business class the cheapest ticket was $3139.00 PER PERSON. Economy started at $949.00 per person and went up depending upon whether you selected a non refundable, no changes allowed ticket. Checked the Marriott Paris Verndome. The cheapest room was $539.00 EUR per night. So if you wanted to go business class and stay at the Marriott that trip would retail for over $10,000 depending upon the exchange rate for dollars to Euro's. The folks who insist that our MR points are not worth it must not travel a lot overseas.

 

[taffy19]

Tombo, I can't understand your analysis but my point is really quite simple.

If you've ever flown first class, you will know that those tickets are very expensive. We had to pay the 10% taxes on a first class ticket from Los Angeles to Paris. The taxes alone were $810 therefore, the ticket was $8100. So 2 first class tickets were $16,200. Add in 7 nights at a high category hotel in Paris and you'll see I underestimated the cost of the trip.

I used $15,000 because that was the price difference between my direct purchase and resale price. Since the trip was worth more than $15,000, I came out ahead with my Marriott direct purchase. No one has to over inflate information since these are facts that can easily be checked if one spends the time. On the otherhand, some people may not want to know these facts in order to justify a resale purchase.

I feel like you that people, who buy from the Marriott direct, are often considered ignorant or rather stupid here but some people are not bean counters or penny pinchers with everything. There are some reasons that it may make sense like the luxurious vacations you can take with the MRPs if you know how to do this right. Dave just mentioned it in this thread as well as Brian and some others as they have made some very nice vacation trips too.

We owned two timeshare weeks in Maui already and were looking with a re-sale broker in Maui to buy two additional fixed weeks in an ocean view fixed unit at our resort but it wasn't available for the dates and ocean view unit we wanted.

We went on a Marriott update but never planned to buy a week there as it is a floating system but when they offered us exactly the week we wanted, we thought it over for several days and decided to go ahead with it even though it was expensive for us even with the very generous trade-in we got so we purchased. Since it is a fixed week and a fixed oceanfront unit too with a guaranteed ocean view forever without having to compete for it, it was money well spent for us but we didn't finance it as that would really make it expensive. We have no heirs so why not spend the money? I only hope that the condo and resort will stay as nice as it was this year and that the maintenance fees don't go up faster than the cost of living as flying has gone up so much more already and may never come back down in price again. If we had known that, we wouldn't have given up our timeshare in driving distance but we didn't know so we will fly to Hawaii once a year now and stay longer instead of twice like we used to do.

What I really like is that we have a whole year to look forward to our trip and then enjoy the week and the moment we come home start looking forward again to our week next year plus we can take family and friends with us and they enjoy it too. We have done it many times so have wonderful memories. We treat our fixed timeshares in Maui as our home away from home without all the worries of maintaining the place when we are gone.

 

[Jpollo]

What I really like is that we have a whole year to look forward to our trip and then enjoy the week and the moment we come home start looking forward again to our week next year plus we can take family and friends with us and they enjoy it too. We have done it many times so have wonderful memories. We treat our fixed timeshares in Maui as our home away from home without all the worries of maintaining the place when we are gone.

This perfectly describes the #1 reason we purchased a TS. We've been able to take many family and friend who normally wouldn't have or couldn't have gone to Hawaii. And we too spend the entire year looking forward to returning to that little tropical corner of the world. No planning at all aside from the airfaire... we just get up and go.

When I ran NPV calcs of the TS ownership versus paying for hotels, we couldn't really justify the TS on pure financial terms. With a little research one can get some startling air/hotel deals. Often I read on TUG that the cost of a vacation will X dollars for air plus Y dollars for lodging, but typically the actual cost should be quite a bit less if you package the two.

But we still bought a TS based on the reasons I listed in my first paragraph.

 

[tombo]

Enjoying things personally can bring more value to an item than what it is worth on the open market. However, most people who buy direct from the developer finance the $25000 to $50000 purchase price since they can't afford that kind of outlay. Even worse, most charge the down payment to their credit card meaning that they financed the whole purchase at high interest rates. Does anyone here really believe that it is a good deal to finance an extra $15000 or more over resale prices at 18% interest to get points? Would anyone finance an extra $15000 to get 350,000 points? That means that you in fact have financed the dream week vacation you bought. 10 or 15 years later you are still paying on that dream trip in payments and finance charges. That does not make any sense to me.



Kathy pet said:
"Just checked flights on cheap tickets.com for a flight leaving Dulles on 10/3 to Paris returning 10/10. Business class the cheapest ticket was $3139.00 PER PERSON. Economy started at $949.00 per person ."

I have flown to Hawaii and Europe in both first class seats and coach class. The first class tickets were all w/FF miles (or when I got upgraded) but when I have to pay with my money it is coach. I know some people pay for business class seats, but in the above example I can't imagine paying $6278 for 2 people to fly in the same plane on the same flights that I could fly 2 people for $1898 total. I guess if one doesn't mind spending over 3 times more to fly business over coach, then one wouldn't mind paying 2 or 3 times as much to purchase a timeshare retail as you could buy one resale for. That doesn't make any sense to me either.

 

[KathyPet]

I wouldn't pay for business class either but I would and have used my MR points to get business class tickets.

 

[Latravel]

I agree with you that if you have to finance your purchase, it is not a good deal but you are assuming everyone or most who purchased directly from Marriott financed the purchase. This is not a correct assumption.

Just because someone decided to buy from Marriott, this does not mean that they could not do the simple math you stated. Once again, direct purchaser's are not ignorant or stupid. A lot of people have some extra money and decided to spend it for great trips. It is very obvious that you should only buy what you can afford, not more. That is why there is a market for direct purchases (costs more w/more benefits) and a market for resales (costs less w/less benefits).

 

[tombo]

Marriott points aren't free. You have to buy your week retail at 2 times (or more) higher than the same week could be purchased resale to get the points. If you pay an additional $15,00 to buy the week retail so you can get points, you have paid dearly for that business class flight and "free" lodging. If you swap your week for points, you paid annual MF's of over $1000 to get those points. You can also purchase points from Marriott at the rate of $1250 for 100,000 points. One way or another you have paid for those points and you are using them like money to pay for rooms and airfare. The expensive points you have purchased are used up much faster buying business class tickets than they are when one purchases coach. Points seem like they have no cost. GThat is why casinos use chips instead of cash. People are more conservative when placing cash on the table than they are with chips because the chips don't seem like real money. The chips are real money though because you have to buy those chips just like you have to buy Marriott points.

 

[tombo]

I agree with you that if you have to finance your purchase, it is not a good deal but you are assuming everyone who purchased directly from Marriott financed the purchase. This is not a correct assumption.

I would love to know the per cent of buyers who pay cash for a retail week. All I have ever heard at the "presentation" is that we can charge the down payment to your credit card and we can finance the rest. Then you are assured that they don't have a good finance rate, but that you can refinance it with you local bank at a much better rate when you get home. There have to be a lot of depressed buyers who get home and have their banker inform tham that they will not accept a timeshare as collateral. "But the salesman assured me that it wouldn't be a problem." Well you can take a second mortgage on your home.........

This got me curious. I doubt that marriott releases the information, but does anyone have any idea of the percentage of buyers who finance versus paying cash when buying retail? I would guess that 75% or more finance, but unlike Perry it is only a guess, and I am not proclaiming my 75% figure correct against any available empirical data others present.

 

[davidvel]

Just checked flights on cheap tickets.com for a flight leaving Dulles on 10/3 to Paris returning 10/10. Business class the cheapest ticket was $3139.00 PER PERSON. Economy started at $949.00 per person and went up depending upon whether you selected a non refundable, no changes allowed ticket. Checked the Marriott Paris Verndome. The cheapest room was $539.00 EUR per night. So if you wanted to go business class and stay at the Marriott that trip would retail for over $10,000 depending upon the exchange rate for dollars to Euro's. The folks who insist that our MR points are not worth it must not travel a lot overseas.

I really do love these debates about points and direct purchase, but what I am always looking to see (instead of what one values the vacation) is EXACTLY the number of points they used, and exactly the number of points they received as incentive for their purchase (not for trading in weeks, etc.) Really the latter is the most pertinent in making the direct/resale comparison.

 

[Dave M]

I would love to know the per cent of buyers who pay cash for a retail week.

Three years ago approximately 50% of Marriott buyers financed their purchases through Marriott. I'm guessing that the percentage hasn't changed much since then.