Aulani Thoughts

[GregT]

Greg

Keep in mind that DVC members are only allowed one transfer in/out per year. So if you were the owner, you can only transfer points once per year. But point transfers can be banked, so in theory you can transfer 2012 points and 2013 points, bank the 2012 points and combine with the 2013 points.

Tom

Tom (and all DVC TUGgers!),

Am I thinking about Usage Year correctly if I do end up buying one of these things?

Let's assume that I want to visit Aulani in June every Odd year, I think I'm best suited to a June/July/August anniversary? Naturally, I bank points from the Even years into the Odd year, but I'll need more via rent or trade.

Since it is very possible I would pursue trades to try and get the points needed, I would probably need a trade that provides points received in March/April of Even year before my anniversary date (which I then bank into the Odd year) and then another trade of points received in the August/September Even year after my anniversary date, so I have the sufficient points I need when Aulani opens up in November at 7 months before the Odd year reservation?

I think that would work, but would appreciate any thoughts.

Thanks very much!

Greg

 

[GregT]

I am still glad that own, too. I know we all pay a premium to have it, but at the end of the day, or at the end of our lives, it's more about how we spent our time and not so much about how much money we have left over.

I agree -- this is how I feel about Maui Ocean Club -- even though I paid a pretty penny for it, I wouldn't hesitate to do it again -- Direct purchase and all. I love that property and the memories and connection is very powerful.

JimF on the Marriott board teases me that I need to put the spreadsheets away and just focus on the vacations, but there is something oddly therapeutic for me in playing with these things like I do.

These timeshares have been wonderful for me and for my family, and I look forward to many many more happy memories in them.

All the best,

Greg

 

[MichaelColey]

Disney over-values its own product by renting the Deluxe Villas for ridiculous prices. This probably helps sales, but to me it is very misleading as to the real value of a DVC unit. $3-4K for a one bedroom for a week rented directly from Disney is ridiculous, and who pays that price, anyway?

People do. And more. For non-Villas, too. Try pricing a Deluxe "resort" (i.e. their hotel units) in a Club/Concierge level. For instance, the rack rate for a standard view for a week in the Yacht Club on the Club level in the middle of October (a fairly slow period) is $4015. Score a 30% discount and add 12.5% taxes, and you're still talking nearly $3200. Add on the dining plan, park tickets and some souvenirs, and you're talking about a $6k vacation. And people pay it. I saw one thread on DIS where people compared their total vacation costs. Most were in the $5k+ range, and many from $8-10k.

 

[presley]

Tom (and all DVC TUGgers!),

Am I thinking about Usage Year correctly if I do end up buying one of these things?

Let's assume that I want to visit Aulani in June every Odd year, I think I'm best suited to a June/July/August anniversary? Naturally, I bank points from the Even years into the Odd year, but I'll need more via rent or trade.

Since it is very possible I would pursue trades to try and get the points needed, I would probably need a trade that provides points received in March/April of Even year before my anniversary date (which I then bank into the Odd year) and then another trade of points received in the August/September Even year after my anniversary date, so I have the sufficient points I need when Aulani opens up in November at 7 months before the Odd year reservation?

I think that would work, but would appreciate any thoughts.

Thanks very much!

Greg

If you want to go in June, your best use year month will be July, if you buy where you want to stay. If you transfer points in from another member, those points will hold their original use year month and resort priority. You would need find a member who has a July use Year Aulani membership in order to book the points at the 11 month mark.

DVC has done quite a bit to make it hard/undesirable for members to transfer points to each other. Additionally, and I know that many people break this rule, compensation is not allowed for transfer of points.

If you buy a 100 point contract and want to travel in June 2013, you would be able to use a total of 300 of your own points. You can bank 2012 to the 2013 year and borrow from 2014 and get your reservation. If you wanted to go again in June 2015, you would only have 200 points available. You couldn't bank the 2014 points because you have already used them. You will have your 2015 and 2016 points to work with.

If that doesn't answer your questions, please let me know.

 

[SueDonJ]

I agree -- this is how I feel about Maui Ocean Club -- even though I paid a pretty penny for it, I wouldn't hesitate to do it again -- Direct purchase and all. I love that property and the memories and connection is very powerful.

JimF on the Marriott board teases me that I need to put the spreadsheets away and just focus on the vacations, but there is something oddly therapeutic for me in playing with these things like I do.

These timeshares have been wonderful for me and for my family, and I look forward to many many more happy memories in them.

All the best,

Greg

I agree with those who say that it's not always about the money or that the experience is sometimes worth more than the money, and that we should put the spreadsheets away and enjoy what we've bought no matter how we bought it. But I also agree with you that there's a certain fascination to the spreadsheets.

In my case I don't regret at all my Marriott developer purchases because for one thing what I bought wasn't available at the time as less-expensive external resales. For another I make pretty good use of the expanded Marriott portfolio for all sorts of stays, and take full advantage of the Marriott Rewards tie-ins to the timeshares. So now that they've proven a willingness to treat direct purchases differently than external with more than just the Marriott Rewards program, I'm glad for whatever protection I'll have going forward. (Understanding, of course, that DC Points purchasers will have the most protection and I'm not one of those.)

But if I was looking for a non-Marriott timeshare like DVC, I wouldn't purchase with anything in mind but being able to make a home resort reservation during certain periods in certain units. An external resale would suit my purpose there perfectly, because I wouldn't be looking for any other usage to be protected. Instead of worrying about whether or not my DVC contract would be able to give me more than that certain home resort usage now and in the future, I'd only have to worry about hedging my contract with a few extra points to combat any re-allocations.

I haven't researched any other timeshare systems but can't imagine that I'll ever want one to replace what I get from Marriott. If ever I am that disillusioned with Marriott, that's when I'll get out in whatever way possible and just put my vacation budget towards single-use rentals.

 

[rhonda]

Let's assume that I want to visit Aulani in June every Odd year, I think I'm best suited to a June/July/August anniversary? Naturally, I bank points from the Even years into the Odd year, but I'll need more via rent or trade.

The general rule of thumb is to buy a use year that is slightly earlier than your normal travel pattern allowing your travel to fall earlier in the use year rather than later. The reasoning relates to how possible cancellations affect your ability to bank points from the canceled reservation. If you cancel a reservation that falls after your banking window you must use the points prior to the end of that UY.

If you expect June travel, look for an April or June UY. The earlier recommendation for a July (not offered) or August UY is not, in my understanding, the better direction.

Edited to add: your UY has no bearing on when you may book your reservations. The booking windows remain 11 months for home resort and 7 months for the other DVC resorts.

 

[glypnirsgirl]

The general rule of thumb is to buy a use year that is slightly earlier than your normal travel pattern allowing your travel to fall earlier in the use year rather than later. The reasoning relates to how possible cancellations affect your ability to bank points from the canceled reservation. If you cancel a reservation that falls after your banking window you must use the points prior to the end of that UY.

If you expect June travel, look for an April or June UY. The earlier recommendation for a July (not offered) or August UY is not, in my understanding, the better direction.

Edited to add: your UY has no bearing on when you may book your reservations. The booking windows remain 11 months for home resort and 7 months for the other DVC resorts.

For the first few years of my DVC ownership, I thought that I had to wait until my points were awarded to make my reservations. I thought WRONG and the above edited explanation is correct. You make your reservations 11 months before the start date of your reservation. You do not wait until the points are deposited in your account.

 

[slum808]

The multiple use year thing does make DVC complicated for transfers, but it addes a lot of flexibility as well. Because Marriott uses a calandar year year there are some owners offing point transfers for 2011 at deeply discounted rates. The problem is I can take advantage of this because there is no availability on short notice.

The multiple use years of DVC let me take advantage of someone elses expiring points. I had already booked a stay at aulani for December on my VGC points. In October I was able to get a point transfer from an SSR owner who had points expiring in January. All I had to do was call member services and swap out my points with the newly transfered points. This let me bank my VGC points I would have used.

Its been a while since I've logged into my account but I think points are already loaded for 2013. I could do Greg's point transfer into my accound today and assuming Party "B" is using 2013 points, it would count against my 2013 transfer. This I just found out recently. I had thought for a long time you had to wait until your use year to do the transfer.

 

[slum808]

If you want to go in June, your best use year month will be July, if you buy where you want to stay. If you transfer points in from another member, those points will hold their original use year month and resort priority. You would need find a member who has a July use Year Aulani membership in order to book the points at the 11 month mark.

It wouldn't need to be the same UY but it would need to an Aulani owner. I'm not sure how easy it will be to find a transfer from someone with Aulani points. Most point transfers offered are for SSR with the remaining for east cost properties. I think in the last 6 months I've only see maybe two VGC point rentals and one Aulani rental.

Greg I think if you really want the 11 month booking you need to consider buying a 150-200 point contract and banking and borrowing. Disney's advertised minimum contract for new owners is currently 160 points, although I've seen post from people who have been offered contracts as low as 100.

 

[GregT]

All,

Thanks for the good comments, I appreciate the insight and assistance. I should be clear that I definitely lean towards a resale at one of the Florida properties, to keep acquisition cost and MFs as modest as possible.

So, let me try the following hypothetical, assuming I want to go to Aulani in June 2015. Assume I've bought 100 SSR points resale, and that I want to book a 2BR OV (490 points) at 7 months prior to check-in.

I believe the following would work, and appreciate corrections:

1) My 100 point SSR has a June anniversary
2) I want to visit Aulani June 13-June 20, 2015 (or thereabouts, to match my week 25 MOC)
3) My 2014 Usage Year points are banked into 2015
4) My 2015 Usage Year points load 6/1/2015. I clearly have 200 SSR points available
5) I could borrow my 2016 points, but I don't because I'll need them for something else

So, how do I come up with the 290 points that I am short? Besides just writing a check for $2,900 and renting them.

1) I offer a prime summer week in a 3BR at Worldmark in Maui for 160 Points (or 10 nights in a 2BR for 200 -- you get the idea).
2) If a DVC owner accepts, they transfer me 160 Points
3) Assume they transfer me 2014 Usage Year Points, the points must be no earlier than July anniverary so I can bank them into 2015 (and use them in June 2015)
4) This first trade should occur in March 2014, so it is still in my 2013 Usage Year and counts as my one permitted 2013 transfer
5) I find someone else who wants the same or similar trade, to close the needed points
6) This second trade must occur after June 2014, so it is the one permitted transfer for the subsequent Usage Year (2014 Usage Year)
7) I now have more than the 490 needed DVC points, and can book the reservation I want in November 2014 when the 7 month reservation window opens. And I used my Worldmark MF basis (approx $1,700) to access the Aulani property.

This is the point where JimF would tell me to step away from the spreadsheet. But, as long as I've been careful with the Usage Years, and making sure they can be banked into 2015, I think I'm good.

I believe this will work, and would appreciate confirmation?

The flaws here, as I see them, are that many DVC owners probably want Maui Ocean Club instead of Worldmark, which is as equally expensive to access as Aulani, and I would be reluctant to use such an enormous quantity of Marriott points. I'm trading longer access to Maui in a B-quality property for shorter access to Aulani, an A-quality property, and trading MOC damages that thesis. Another motivation for me here (besides access to Aulani) is preserving the incredibly valuable Marriott DC points for other usage (most likely rental to cover my MFs).

It appears complicated, but it doesn't feel any more complicated to me than the transactions I've already done -- as long as there is a motivated person on the other end, it's come together nicely.

It's all conjecture obviously at this point -- I won't set foot on Aulani until 2013 (thanks again Steve!) and may not like it -- but I like to think about what is possible to make my best decision.

Please advise on the above and thanks!

 

[heathpack]

Honestly, Greg, I think you are way overestimating how readily available these trades will be.

When I first bought my Hyatt, I encountered a HGVC owner open to trades. I had the impression that I would easily find 20 such individuals. Nay, that is not the case.

You may have good luck trading your Maui Marriott- everyone knows Maui, most people want to go there once, Marriott is a well-know brand, RCI is not strong in Maui. I speculate anything less will be way harder.

I have repeatedly offered Hyatt units up for trade, always an excellent deal for a DVC owner (ie I will give a holiday week but accept a low-season DVC or I will give 7 days in a Hyatt but only ask 5 Sun-Thurs DVC days). In 3 years of doing this, I've only had 1 successful exchange but much, much time has been spent.

For you the scenario get much harder- I am frequently looking for 70-120 point stays, and the chances of a DVC owner having that to spare are way greater. You propose looking for huge point allotments on a regular basis. You need to find willing owners who *also* have enough points *and* have them on the timeframe you need *and* don't think you're a scam artist when you mention world mark *and* who are interested in going to Maui.

If you want to go to DVC annually or EOY, the rule of thumb has always been "buy Disney," and I would have to say that I think that truism holds here. The problem is that Aulani is prohibitively expensive when you run the numbers for the kind of points you are talking. I would suggest that if you love Aulani as much as you expect to that you look to buying a large cheap resale points contract somewhere other than Aulani and take your chances at the 7-month mark. Plan on buying half the points you need and going EOY. On such a large number of points, you will have to run the numbers as to which property makes the most sense when you balance MF and initial purchase cost.

I don't want to discourage from trying your private exchange plan, however- if you can figure out how to reliably crack the nut that is the typical DVC owner, I'd LOVE to learn how to do it. I just think it will be exponentially harder than you are envisioning.

H

All,

Thanks for the good comments, I appreciate the insight and assistance. I should be clear that I definitely lean towards a resale at one of the Florida properties, to keep acquisition cost and MFs as modest as possible.

So, let me try the following hypothetical, assuming I want to go to Aulani in June 2015. Assume I've bought 100 SSR points resale, and that I want to book a 2BR OV (490 points) at 7 months prior to check-in.

I believe the following would work, and appreciate corrections:

1) My 100 point SSR has a June anniversary
2) I want to visit Aulani June 15-June 22 (or thereabouts, to match my week 25 MOC)
3) My 2014 Usage Year points are banked into 2015
4) My 2015 Usage Year points load 6/1/2015. I clearly have 200 SSR points available
5) I could borrow my 2016 points, but I don't because I'll need them for something else

So, how do I come up with the 290 points that I am short? Besides just writing a check for $2,900 and renting them.

1) I offer a prime summer week in a 3BR at Worldmark in Maui for 153 Points
2) If a DVC owner accepts, they transfer me 153 Points -- assume they transfer me 2014 Usage Year Points, they must be no earlier than July anniverary to I can bank them into 2015
3) This first trade occurs in March 2014, so it is in still in my 2013 Usage Year, and counts as my 2013 transfer
4) I find someone else who wants the same trade
5) This second trade must occur after June 2014, so it is for the transfer for the subsequent Usage Year (2014 Usage Year)
6) I now have 506 DVC points, and can book the reservation I want in November 2014 when the 7 month check-in occurs. And I used my Worldmark MF basis to access the Aulani property.

This is the point where JimF would tell me to step away from the spreadsheet. But, as long as I've been careful with the Usage Years, and making sure they can be banked into 2015, I think I'm good.

I believe this will work, and would appreciate confirmation?

The flaws here, as I see them, are that many DVC owners probably want Maui Ocean Club instead of Worldmark, which is as equally expensive to access as Aulani, and I would be reluctant to use some an enormous quantity of Marriott points. It appears complicated, but it doesn't feel any more complicated to me than the transactions I've already done -- as long as there is a motivated person on the other end, it's come together nicely.

It's all conjecture obviously at this point -- I've not yet set foot on Aulani and may not like it -- but I like to think about what is possible to make my best decision.

Please advise on the above and thanks!

 

[rhonda]

It's all conjecture obviously at this point -- I won't set foot on Aulani until 2013 (thanks again Steve!) and may not like it -- but I like to think about what is possible to make my best decision.

I think it is safe to say, "You'll like it!" We spend 8 nights in an Ocean View 1BR in Sept (on our SSR points) and really loved it.

Trying to negotiate direct trades with DVC owners is really tricky. Compared to the general timeshare market, DVC buyers generally purchased their points to use at DVC properties and aren't often inclined to trade out.

I tried for a few years to offer a 2BR Worldmark high-season week (~10k WM) for a 1BR BWV lowest-season week (~200 DVC) as direct exchange. I posted on "all the right boards" at the time and never received a single nibble. Fortunately, we were able to secure the trades I needed through either II or RCI for most years.

If you plan to visit Aulani every-other-year at 490 points ... considering buying 250 DVC points.

 

[Twinkstarr]

I'm probably not a "typical" DVC owner. The majority of our stays include both Fri-Sat nights, so that tends to eat up the points. And we usually go for 4-6 nights. I have enough points to cover our trips.

I think the flexiblility of DVC also works against doing private trades, If I skip a trip I can bank points. If I have extra points I'll just go for a bigger unit(Grand Villa in my case, which I prefer if I'm staying longer than a few nights) or work in a couple of extra days. Plus a lot of DVC owners are always borrowing points so they don't have any available to trade.

I tried to work out private trades with my DVC points, but it usually would require me to back off on a trip and I get out voted by the guys. If we are doing WDW they would prefer to stay on site.

The DVC annual pass discount works into this also got to squeeze out as many trips as possible.

Plus the general "I'm going to get hosed" feeling that's on the DIS boards. I tried to work a transfer deal there, me transfering my DVC points to another owner. Wanted me to email my deed so she could see that I was a real owner.

 

[SueDonJ]

Sometimes reading the disboards I get the sense that a lot of DVC owners don't really consider themselves timeshare owners but something along the lines of Disney family members. Okay, maybe not that extreme but it's a weird mentality. That must have something to do with the overall reluctance of the majority not being open to private exchanges - "Oh no, I just *couldn't* give up my DVC for a lowly timeshare."

It's difficult enough to learn the intricacies of the timeshare system you own; if you're going to exchange with an owner of something else then you really should have a good understanding of that something else. Greg, you know a whole lot of systems inside out! How much time are you willing to devote to teaching others about what you have, so that you can exchange it with them? Especially if they already have an irrational bias against timeshares?

I think Marriott's new point system and DVC have a whole lot in common despite Marriott not having a home resort preference: usage flexibility as far as resorts/unit sizes/lengths of stay, reservation windows based on ownership, Use Years (calendar year for enrolled/converted Weeks, 12-month period based on purchase date for Trust Members,) banking and borrowing allowances and deadlines, vague "commercial activity" renting restrictions, etc... So for example, I'd be pretty comfortable doing a private exchange with a DVC owner. But admittedly, when you all get to talking about WorldMark or other systems that I don't know, it seems like it would be easier for me to just limit my field of possibility to what I do know.

Lots of words to say what most of you are saying already - Greg, I agree that the more convoluted your exchange scenarios get, the more you're limiting your possibilities in what is a small world to begin with (the pool of DVC owners open to the possibility of timeshare exchanges outside of DVC.) Knowing you from TUG, though, I'd work with you and probably trust you more than some stranger to give me good value for what I own. Maybe your solution is to go over to the disboards and start posting like a fiend - let those DVC folks get to know you, too!

 

[rhonda]

Sometimes reading the disboards I get the sense that a lot of DVC owners don't really consider themselves timeshare owners but something along the lines of Disney family members. Okay, maybe not that extreme but it's a weird mentality. That must have something to do with the overall reluctance of the majority not being open to private exchanges - "Oh no, I just *couldn't* give up my DVC for a lowly timeshare."

No kidding! ITA

 

[presley]

The private party trading is very difficult. It works nicely when you feel like you already "know" someone because of the forums. I don't think it will be safe to plan on having regular good trades. I hope that will change, but I wouldn't count on it.

 

[Twinkstarr]

QUOTE=SueDonJ;1195044] Maybe your solution is to go over to the disboards and start posting like a fiend - let those DVC folks get to know you, too! [/QUOTE]

I've been a DISboard member since 2006, with probably as many posts as I have here on TUG(6000+) and there is a bit of of caution by some DVC'ers.

When my one DVC friend started renting she asked if I would be a reference. Don't ask how many PM's I got on that. And she's been a DIS'er longer than me!

 

[heathpack]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought you could not even an offer a non-DVC unit for exchange on the Dis anymore. They changed a bunch of the rules over there a year or two ago and I basically stopped going there. If I recall, I am no longer allowed to post a Hyatt unit for exchange.

H

 

[presley]

QUOTE=SueDonJ;1195044] Maybe your solution is to go over to the disboards and start posting like a fiend - let those DVC folks get to know you, too!

I've been a DISboard member since 2006, with probably as many posts as I have here on TUG(6000+) and there is a bit of of caution by some DVC'ers.

When my one DVC friend started renting she asked if I would be a reference. Don't ask how many PM's I got on that. And she's been a DIS'er longer than me!

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought you could not even an offer a non-DVC unit for exchange on the Dis anymore. They changed a bunch of the rules over there a year or two ago and I basically stopped going there. If I recall, I am no longer allowed to post a Hyatt unit for exchange.

H

I pretty much gave up trading/renting on that site when they removed a thread I made about wanting to learn about the rent/trade process. I found Mouseowners shortly afterward. I prefer Mouseowners because it is a smaller group and it feels like people really want to help each other out.

 

[Twinkstarr]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought you could not even an offer a non-DVC unit for exchange on the Dis anymore. They changed a bunch of the rules over there a year or two ago and I basically stopped going there. If I recall, I am no longer allowed to post a Hyatt unit for exchange.

H

They've changed the rules on the Rent/Trade board so often in the last year or 2, I've lost track of what they are.

 

[tomandrobin]

They've changed the rules on the Rent/Trade board so often in the last year or 2, I've lost track of what they are.

If you post your R/T ad wrong, you'll find out very quickly what the rules are.......:deadhorse:

 

[tomandrobin]

The private party trading is very difficult. It works nicely when you feel like you already "know" someone because of the forums. I don't think it will be safe to plan on having regular good trades. I hope that will change, but I wouldn't count on it.

Depends on what you are trading and what forum you are posting your trade.

The various Disney/DVC forums are very difficult to trade/exchange. At least in my experience. First and foremost, the average DVC owner has more passion to their ownership then most, again....that's just my opinion.

 

[Twinkstarr]

If you post your R/T ad wrong, you'll find out very quickly what the rules are.......:deadhorse:

:hysterical: and you get an extra whack if you are "sarcastic" in your reply to the dreaded PM from a moderator.

 

[GregT]

All,

I came across this on YouTube while looking for videos of Aulani property and rooms. This is the 3BR Grand Villa model (which looks pretty sweet).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ra6Fby8GRJo

A couple of general comments:

1) Very consistent feel with the 3BR at Maui Ocean Club
2) Spectacular view from this unit (but is the sunset from this building blocked by JW Marriott?)
3) My MOC unit doesn't have a bidet
4) Aulani Grand Villa has an extra 400 sq ft versus MOC (but I'm not sure where it went because the living/dining area seems a tiny bit smaller??)
5) The overhead shower heads are very cool, we don't have those either

Looks like a beautiful room and property, I'll see if I can find a video of just a simple 2BR.

Best,

Greg

 

[rhonda]

I didn't watch the video ... but

2) Yes, our view of the sunset was certainly blocked by the JW Marriott.
3) The Toto Washlet is only found in the master bath of Grand Villa Units.
4) The GV unit we toured had a strange, unused hallway leading to a 2nd exit. When we asked, 'Why?' the reply ran along lines re: firecode demands so many exits per occupants. The guide recommended using the strange space for storing luggage. It likely wasn't 400 sq ft -- but it was a huge waste of space.
5) The dual head shower in our 1BR was very nice!