Aulani Thoughts

[GregT]

All,

I originally posted this in a different thread, but am starting a new one because it's a little off the original topic.

As background, I'm going on a Disney cruise in April 2012 and am committed to $10K for the cruise. I called Disney to ask if there was a cruise incentive for buying Aulani direct (the answer was no). I like Hawaii (alot) and I think Aulani is going to be fantastic. I'm visiting Aulani in June 2013 courtesy of a Direct Exchange with another TUGger.

But what was interesting to me (and TUGgers probably already know this) was that Disney couldn't even talk to me because they are not approved to sell in California....and weren't sure when they would be.

Wow....wow....tough break when you open the resort and can't sell to the closest U.S. customers.

The other point of this thread is for those individuals who might buy Disney resale with Aulani as their primary target because they live West Coast (like me).

The Disney system is a very tough nut to crack --- it is very tough to "uptrade" within the Disney system. I like buying systems where there is a property with reasonable MFs and a slug of points -- Disney isn't structured as such.... Even with an SSR, I need 490 points to get the week I would want at Aulani -- I've not found a way around $2,300-$2,500 in MFs....

Interesting stuff....

Best to all,

Greg


Edited: The rep did tell me that he did believed there was not a developer subsidy in the $5.73 MF for Aulani. Not sure if I believe him, but thought I'd pass along the unproven comment. GT

 

[tomandrobin]

Greg

I would only buy Aulani Resort is it was a must have....Like Atlantis was for me.

Give the resort a little bit of time and you will be able to trade into the resort for a fraction of the cost.

Tom

PS - Hopefully you used a TA to maximize your OBC for your April cruise. You'll get a couple hundred $$ in on-board-credits (OBC).

 

[presley]

When you visit Aulani, you will know if it is worth it you to pay to stay there for your desired room/season. I think it is important that if you really want to stay in a certain type of unit in a certain season, that you honor that and don't buy something that you don't want in hopes of being able to trade in for the long term.

Have you looked at buying resale VGC? The MFs are lower than SSR and it is in high enough demand that I suspect it would be easy to trade into Aulani, as other Californians would want to visit both places. I saw a resale contract somewhere (one of the big 4 resellers) for around $90./pp. Also, remember that if you aren't going to visit Aulani each year, you can get by on less points and use the bank/borrow system.

Most important thing I suggest is to think about where you want to visit most often and if you are picky about which type of villa that you stay in. If you buy exactly what you want, you won't have to keep second guessing yourself over the years. And don't get too caught up with the thoughts of how much other points cost. The cost of the other points doesn't matter if you can't use them they way you want to. That is more of a waste of money than buying Aulani.

 

[SueDonJ]

Greg, the reason DVC can't sell you Aulani points is because back in July the Hawaiian regulatory agencies forced them to suspend sales when it was determined that the maintenance fees they'd set would seriously underfund the resort. Three top execs, including Jim Lewis who was President of DVC, were summarily fired because of the mess. In September DVC received approval to sell in Hawaii again, with the MF raised to $5.73 from the original $4.31 per point. They've yet to receive approval to sell again in any other states but they did say that their priorities will be "Florida, California, New York and Illinois, its most-important sales markets." This thread explains it all pretty well; check out the link in Post #22 to the Orlando Sentinel story.

I'd be verrrry cautious about buying at Aulani because of all this. For one thing, Disney didn't give any notice at all that there was a problem to owners who purchased before sales were shut down, and they say they'll be subsidizing those owners throughout the length of those contracts. (I'm sure the sales person you talked to was happy you didn't ask him about the subsidy for those who closed with the original $4.31 MF's. ) For another, Aulani is now among the highest-priced of ANY timeshares, not just Disney, and with the rocky start it doesn't bode well for ongoing owners' costs. It's not going to sell quickly so exchanging in shouldn't be a problem for a while, I would think. Reading the disboards there are a whole lot of non-Aulani owners who are getting reservations with no problems at all.

If I was considering DVC (and I do as a mental exercise just in case Don will ever agree to it ) I'd be looking at a resale of any Disney World-onsite resorts except for Beach Club Villas (because for one thing, we didn't like our stay there, and for another, those are the only WDW contracts on which Disney regularly exercises ROFR.) I'd buy enough that I could finagle with banking and borrowing to get one trip onsite and one trip to Aulani every three-four years. You have to do some thinking because each resort has different per-point prices, different MF's and different point requirements for stays - play around with the Points Charts and current resale listings here to figure out what you'll need for the particular units/dates you might use most often.

You may want to to look more closely at the Disneyland DVC resales (VGC, I think?) than I would because you're on the west coast. With fewer units there the resale inventory is more limited and higher-priced than any of the Florida resorts, but it will be easier for you to exchange out of there into any of the others than it would be for you to buy a WDW-based DVC and exchange into the CA one.

I'm wondering if the rental market for Aulani stays will eventually flesh out so that Aulani owners will be able to charge more for their points than the standard $10-$12 for all others. Sure, Aulani stays require more points than any other DVC resorts for the same units/dates, but Aulani is so much more expensive that I wouldn't be surprised to see a premium even on top of the point premium. Should be interesting to watch.

 

[Twinkstarr]

I agree with Sue, Tom and Judy.

If I was a left coaster like yourself, I'd buy VGC if you were interested in DVC. Small resort, so it would be useful for direct trades or renting or trying to get into Aulani at 7 months. MF's are pretty reasonable for DVC.

I own at DVC VB, which has MF's but we love the area/resort and to get a week in one of the oceanfront Beach Cottages you need the 11 month window.

You are going to Aulani in 2013, why don't you see how you like it first. I don't think they are going to be sold out by then and the resale market might have more options(you would be surprised at how fast some of the new resorts hit the resale market).

 

[Gracey]

Just an FYI, i had no trouble booking an Aulani 2 bedroom for this May at the 7 month window with my OKW points. All the different view categories were available also.

 

[bnoble]

I would wait a few years on Aulani to see (a) if the demand at the 11-month window justifies owning there and (b) to take advantage of the inevitable resales that will be available, at what will almost certainly be a nice discount. In the meantime, I'd rent from or exchange with a DVC owner.

It's too early to know what the long-term demand will be, because so little has been sold vs. what's been declared into the condominium. But, I expect that going forward it will be possible to get many desirable reservations at the 7-month window. The resort is not that small.

 

[GregT]

All,

Thank you -- these are excellent points.

I definitely plan to wait until after the Aulani 2013 trip before making a move -- the only catalyst might have been if there was a desirable cruise incentive (which there isn't).

I too believe that Aulani will be readily available at 7 months out, and that between banking/borrowing, a medium size point package should make it accessible every other, or every third year. My trip would be in mid-June, so I think the competition would be modest.

But there is no getting around the high points chart -- it's stiff -- and very similar to Marriott's new point system and the high points for Maui Ocean Club. You have to really want to go there, and be willing to sacrifice a lot of points. We will see if it's worth it, but I'm looking forward to the 2013 trip!

The comments about VGC are good ones too -- I'm not sure how much of their lower MFs are because they are still enjoying a developer subsidy. That's one of the reasons SSR seemed interesting, I believe it is old enough to have exhausted its developer subsidy, but that may be mistaken.

One of the things that I really like about Disney is the ability to transfer points. I can envision direct exchanges occurring with Disney owners that want to go to Maui or the Big Island, and because of my own timeshare ownership, there may be point trades possible. We will see!

All the best,

Greg

 

[tomandrobin]

SSR has been completely declared and all the units are now part of the Resort, except the 2-3% required by Florida law. DVC pays rent to SSR for use of the office area and preview center, but I do not think there are any subsidies from Disney.

VGC have been sold out since last fall.

I also believe there will be availability at Aulani at the 7 month window. There are still 2 more phases of villas to be completed, so the short term will be more limited. Originally, 50% of the sales were projected to Japanese buyers. The earthquake and economy has really hurt those sales, but I think they will pick up. If the resort does sell 50% to Japanese buyers, that will hurt availability of finding points to rent or exchange.

Like I said earlier, I would only buy Aulani if it was a must have.

 

[BocaBum99]

I think the number of points required to book Aulani makes it not worth it. I'd rather stay at the Hilton Hawaiian Village. It's a far better value.

 

[SueDonJ]

... One of the things that I really like about Disney is the ability to transfer points. I can envision direct exchanges occurring with Disney owners that want to go to Maui or the Big Island, and because of my own timeshare ownership, there may be point trades possible. We will see!

All the best,

Greg

Like you I think direct exchanges of reservations between DVC and other timeshare owners are a good way to exchange without getting into the limitations of II and RCI, etc. But I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here about the ability to transfer DVC points. Disney's system is actually more restrictive than other timeshare systems when it comes to transfers - a few years ago they changed the rules to allow only one transfer per Use Year into or out of an owner's account.

So, for example, you could purchase a VGC contract for however many points you'd need for the stays you expect to book most often, but if you're counting on points transfers to get the additional points you'd need for intermittent Aulani stays, you'd have to find one owner with the total number of points you need. Say you want to splurge and do Aulani right every five years - if it costs 200 more points than what you own, you'd need to find someone with 200 points to rent. Where with Marriott, for example, you could play around with a number of transfers - and take advantage of any distress bargains - with Disney you'd have to pretty much plan well in advance if you need that many points from one source.

*****
Hmmmm. This brings up a question for the DVC owners - with only one transfer allowed per Use Year, is it even possible to bank and borrow three years' worth of points for one trip in the second year? Do they count those transfers in the Use Years that the points originate or in the Use Year that the reservation takes place? If it's the reservation year, doesn't that mean you can EITHER bank one year into the next OR borrow one year into the previous?

[eta] I may have answered my own question here. Is it that banking and borrowing are not considered "transfers" because all of the points are being used by the owner?

 

[GregT]

I think the number of points required to book Aulani makes it not worth it. I'd rather stay at the Hilton Hawaiian Village. It's a far better value.

Agreed -- I really really really liked HHV when we were there a couple weeks ago. It's hard to pay a points premium where there is such a high quality accomodation available so close by. But I'm thinking HHV is perfect for Jonell and me -- and Aulani is more of family trip.

Like you I think direct exchanges of reservations between DVC and other timeshare owners are a good way to exchange without getting into the limitations of II and RCI, etc. But I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here about the ability to transfer DVC points. Disney's system is actually more restrictive than other timeshare systems when it comes to transfers - a few years ago they changed the rules to allow only one transfer per Use Year into or out of an owner's account.

Yes, Disney is moderately more restrictive than Marriott's with only one transfer per Usage Year however, you are allowed to bank points into the following year (even if they were transferred). Either way you look at it, there is a lot of trading/banking/borrowing in order to get the number of points necessary.

Aulani is simply an expensive property to visit -- but I'll be curious to see if it's worth it when I go!

Best,

Greg

 

[slum808]

I think I can expand a little for Greg. The ability to transfer points, although limited, does open up the window for larger trades. For example, Greg wants to go to Aulani in June 2013, he needs 350 points. I want something Greg has, but I can only offer 270 points. Greg still needs 80 points, so he finds exchanger "B" to make a small trade and he will have exchanger "B" transfer the 80 points into my account. Now I have the 350 points Greg needs for his week in Aulani.

Now the confusing part.
The points need to be valid at in June of 2013. For me I have a June Use Year so that will be some banked 2012 points as well as current 2013 points. The use year of the 80 points will depend on Exchanger "B"'s use year.

If its early like a February then they can transfer me 2013 points or if they do it early enough they can transfer me 2012 points and I can bank them into 2013.

If its late like a Dec use year, then the only option is 2012 points. Yes they could have transfered me 2011 points, but I already used my 2011 single transfer. They can't be 2013 Points because you cant transfer borrowed points, and you cant borrow transfered points. Hope I didn't lose anybody, it took me a while to figure it out my self.

 

[MichaelColey]

Like all of the other DVC properties, I have a hard time justifying the cost compared to other nearby alternatives. At 500 points a week for a 2BR, that's about $2500 in MF and $5000 in total cost (if you amortize the upfront costs over 10 years). Most other timeshares in Hawaii have a total cost between $1000 and $2000 and you can exchange in for even less than that.

If you're happy in a Studio, it's quite a bit more reasonable (like other DVC properties). At an average of about 150 points a week, that's $750 or $1500, which is in line with a low-end to moderate hotel (and an Aulani studio is clearly much better than a moderate hotel).

Before we got into timeshares, we used to spend about $100-$150/night for hotels when we went to Hawaii. Since we've got into timeshares (and including our two upcoming Hawaii trips), we've exchanged into very nice 2BR units for an average cost (MFs and prorated upfront costs of exchanged units plus exchange fees) of about $60/night. To spend more like $700/night for the Disney name is unfathomable to me.

When I can start exchange in (at costs comparable to or somewhat higher than what stays costs me now), I look forward to checking it out. But there's no way I'll buy/own to stay there.

 

[GregT]

I think I can expand a little for Greg. The ability to transfer points, although limited, does open up the window for larger trades. For example, Greg wants to go to Aulani in June 2013, he needs 350 points. I want something Greg has, but I can only offer 270 points. Greg still needs 80 points, so he finds exchanger "B" to make a small trade and he will have exchanger "B" transfer the 80 points into my account. Now I have the 350 points Greg needs for his week in Aulani.

Now the confusing part.
The points need to be valid at in June of 2013. For me I have a June Use Year so that will be some banked 2012 points as well as current 2013 points. The use year of the 80 points will depend on Exchanger "B"'s use year.

If its early like a February then they can transfer me 2013 points or if they do it early enough they can transfer me 2012 points and I can bank them into 2013.

If its late like a Dec use year, then the only option is 2012 points. Yes they could have transfered me 2011 points, but I already used my 2011 single transfer. They can't be 2013 Points because you cant transfer borrowed points, and you cant borrow transfered points. Hope I didn't lose anybody, it took me a while to figure it out my self.

All,

Steve has done a very nice job of articulating our actual trade -- and the advantages and disadvantages. It's more complicated when combining points from two trades, which may be necessary due to the limitation of only one transfer per year -- and two trades may be necessary because Aulani needs so many points. I found my second DVC partner from someone who wanted to visit Maui and I traded access to Worldmark in Maui for the additional DVC points needed.

So.....I can envision someday owning a small/medium DVC package (100 points or so) one day and then doing trades like these to acquire the remaining balance needed.

Alternatively, it may be more efficient to simply repeat the type of trade that Steve and I completed, which appears to work well for the both of us.

Steve, thanks for posting this!

Best,

Greg

 

[tomandrobin]

Greg

Keep in mind that DVC members are only allowed one transfer in/out per year. So if you were the owner, you can only transfer points once per year. But point transfers can be banked, so in theory you can transfer 2012 points and 2013 points, bank the 2012 points and combine with the 2013 points.

Tom

 

[heathpack]

Greg

Keep in mind that DVC members are only allowed one transfer in/out per year. So if you were the owner, you can only transfer points once per year. But point transfers can be banked, so in theory you can transfer 2012 points and 2013 points, bank the 2012 points and combine with the 2013 points.

Tom

However, you cannot transfer banked points. This all starts to get very complicated if multiple transfers, banking and borrowing are needed. And the more complicated it is, the less of a chance you'll get the details to work out.

I have found DVCers who are not involved with other types of TS to be a suspicious lot. One would probaly have the most luck with TUG DVC owners.

H

 

[SueDonJ]

I think I can expand a little for Greg. The ability to transfer points, although limited, does open up the window for larger trades. For example, Greg wants to go to Aulani in June 2013, he needs 350 points. I want something Greg has, but I can only offer 270 points. Greg still needs 80 points, so he finds exchanger "B" to make a small trade and he will have exchanger "B" transfer the 80 points into my account. Now I have the 350 points Greg needs for his week in Aulani.

Now the confusing part.
The points need to be valid at in June of 2013. For me I have a June Use Year so that will be some banked 2012 points as well as current 2013 points. The use year of the 80 points will depend on Exchanger "B"'s use year.

If its early like a February then they can transfer me 2013 points or if they do it early enough they can transfer me 2012 points and I can bank them into 2013.

If its late like a Dec use year, then the only option is 2012 points. Yes they could have transfered me 2011 points, but I already used my 2011 single transfer. They can't be 2013 Points because you cant transfer borrowed points, and you cant borrow transfered points. Hope I didn't lose anybody, it took me a while to figure it out my self.

All,

Steve has done a very nice job of articulating our actual trade -- and the advantages and disadvantages. It's more complicated when combining points from two trades, which may be necessary due to the limitation of only one transfer per year -- and two trades may be necessary because Aulani needs so many points. I found my second DVC partner from someone who wanted to visit Maui and I traded access to Worldmark in Maui for the additional DVC points needed.

So.....I can envision someday owning a small/medium DVC package (100 points or so) one day and then doing trades like these to acquire the remaining balance needed.

Alternatively, it may be more efficient to simply repeat the type of trade that Steve and I completed, which appears to work well for the both of us.

Steve, thanks for posting this!

Best,

Greg

I think I understand. Steve has used his one transfer/year to get the 80 additional points he needs to add to his 270 points to get the total 350 needed for the reservation Greg wants, and then you'll exchange reservations with each other once the reservation windows open and you're able to confirm the stays you each want. It's a fairly low-risk exchange where control remains with the owner of the reservation and not the renter.

But if Greg is an owner and wants to keep total control of any reservations, the additional points he needs will have to be transferred in to his account, and what you two are doing now won't work for those purposes because Steve couldn't transfer out of his account the 80 points that were transferred in. That's what I was thinking when I mentioned the necessity of finding one owner who has the total additional points needed to supplement another DVC owner's one stay.

Aulani's high point requirements for stays really aren't conducive to a large amount of point/reservation exchanges between DVC owners, IMO, certainly not the number that take place at the WDW resorts. But for the next few years availability at the 7-mos window shouldn't be an issue which means non-Aulani DVC owners should be able to get what they want, and reservation exchanges between owners and non-owners could be a healthy market.

 

[tomandrobin]

I have found DVCers who are not involved with other types of TS to be a suspicious lot. One would probably have the most luck with TUG DVC owners.

And over-values their DVC points when trying to make a trade.

 

[slum808]

And over-values their DVC points when trying to make a trade.

Is it overvalued if that is what the market is willing to pay? In my case I could have easily rented my points for $2700-3200. That's enough to rent most weeks owners want. That is one of the reasons most dvcers have abandoned using RCI. Again in my particular case its easier to trade with Greg because his points allow him to request a specific date I need, which I might not find on Redweek. Also gets rid of any potential tax issues that most chose to ignore with rentals.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Originally Posted by BocaBum99
I think the number of points required to book Aulani makes it not worth it. I'd rather stay at the Hilton Hawaiian Village. It's a far better value.

You live on Oahu, so maybe that colors your opinion a bit.

We have 500 DVC points available to us right now, half of which we didn't have to reimburse fees, and we can borrow another 250. Needless to say, I am thinking about booking Aulani for about five nights in a 2 bedroom for us to stay with Mom in March. I haven't decided whether to do it or not, but Rick is very interested in staying at Aulani. I could use some Hawaiian print shirts with Mickey on 'em.

 

[tomandrobin]

Is it overvalued if that is what the market is willing to pay? In my case I could have easily rented my points for $2700-3200. That's enough to rent most weeks owners want. That is one of the reasons most dvcers have abandoned using RCI. Again in my particular case its easier to trade with Greg because his points allow him to request a specific date I need, which I might not find on Redweek. Also gets rid of any potential tax issues that most chose to ignore with rentals.

Over valued, in that whenever I have offered my Atlantis week or St John week to a DVC member in exchanged for a comparable DVC unit. They almost always feel they are getting cheated in the exchange.

 

[heathpack]

Over valued, in that whenever I have offered my Atlantis week or St John week to a DVC member in exchanged for a comparable DVC unit. They almost always feel they are getting cheated in the exchange.

Yes, I have offered a Hyatt Grand Aspen studio ski week for a DVC studio. I would accept a DVC reservation in the 120 point range, worth about $1200. The Hyatt week would rent for considerably more than that. Yet I am met with suspicion.

Obviously the thing to do is to rent out the Hyatt week for cash, about $2000, or deposit in II and work the system such that one gets multiple weeks of trades in II, or deposit in SFX and take a 1BR Grand Mayan, or trade privately on TUG for DVC, or just go to DVC some other time (we like to go to WDW maybe once every 4 years) Don't get me wrong- I'll still offer Hyatts up on Disney sites, no skin off my nose. But I will be continued to be amused when someone thinks a May week in a studio at VWL is worth 4 times more than a ski week in Aspen at a luxe resort.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Disney over-values its own product by renting the Deluxe Villas for ridiculous prices. This probably helps sales, but to me it is very misleading as to the real value of a DVC unit. $3-4K for a one bedroom for a week rented directly from Disney is ridiculous, and who pays that price, anyway?

The values DVC gives to their product seems to taint the DVC owners' idea of their worth. If any of these people saw the Marriott Grande Vista or Vistana Villages, they might realize how ridiculous their assumptions are about what an "even trade" is.

Still, so glad we own DVC. :rofl: I just had to do it. Aulani looks wonderful.

 

[presley]

I am still glad that own, too. I know we all pay a premium to have it, but at the end of the day, or at the end of our lives, it's more about how we spent our time and not so much about how much money we have left over.

Trade values... yes, it is hard to come with what is "fair" for both parties. If you trade DVC points to RCI for a 2 bedroom during high season, you trade away 270 points. However, a DVC owner cannot book a 2 bedroom during high season in DVC for 270 points.