At Oceana Palms: what we've learned

[ngmaui]

We are currently at Oceana Palms, enjoying a trade from the bulk deposit made earlier this year. We had the best luck ever in villa assignment: we got the penthouse OF unit! Earlier in the week, we had strong winds, both on the beach and on our balcony, but now it is just breezy and very pleasant indeed. While on the balcony during the windy period, my sunglasses fell off the table, onto the tile deck, and out into the great unknown. For all I know they landed at Ocean Pointe or in Miami. Lesson learned!

We went to a presentation today, probably our last, ever. For the most part, we heard the same old stuff others have reported; no surprise there. But a couple of things surfaced during the discussions that were “new to us”…they may have been discussed here on the boards, but we missed them. One thing concerned the redemption of weeks for MRPs: when that occurs (and we were told on average 30% of weeks are redeemed for MRPs annually), the weeks go into the trust inventory bucket, not the exchange pool. We were also told that weeks turned over to Marriott for rental go into the trust inventory bucket. Neither of these points seemed right to us, but we’ve got it wrong before.

When we had a minor disagreement with the sales rep about the ability to combine trust and legacy points to make a single reservation, the sales manager was brought in. He said for weeks owners like us, the purchase of a minimum number of trust points would give us an advantage of sorts, once a year, in making a prime-time (i.e., high demand) trust reservation (like President’s week or July 4th). I’m not sure how well I can recount what we were told, but I’ll try by providing a generic example: say we own 2k trust points and have 3500 “legacy” points available. We want to make a trust inventory reservation costing 2700 points, with the nightly rates as follows: Fr/Sa 600 pts each, M-F 300 pts each. We were told they would make the reservation (assuming availability) taking the 2k trust points first, then 700 of our legacy points. We would NOT be able to use X number of legacy points first, then use trust points for the remainder. The manager further advised this approach should be used ONLY on the really hard to get reservations. He also showed us where this was included in the public offering documentation (???, I’m not sure what it was called).

Our take on this, when all was said and done, was that legacy week owners who purchase trust points have direct access to trust inventory beyond the actual point value of their trust ownership on a limited basis…they can use their legacy points to supplement their trust points to directly access purely trust inventory once a year. Did we just miss this in all the earlier TUG discussions?

Now that I think about this, we would never know where the inventory is pulled from, so I'm not sure this is anything but theoretical. There is no accountability.

Anyway, we did not buy, feeling we can achieve what we want with the weeks we have, without spending another $20K plus. We bought where we wanted to go, so even if II dries up at some point (which is what we were told would happen), we will be content to go to our home resorts. Our sales rep was obviously displeased with our decision (remarking that we must not understand what we’d been told or we’d be buying, i.e., what was wrong with us?), and was surprisingly irritated when we knew what the cost would be for 2k points and associated MFs, without outlining them for us. Oh well.

We were there for our "tour" and got the same spiel. I questioned the combining of the 2 buckets and the Manager was brought in. I did not press on getting it directly from him in writing but he mentioned that in the MVCD documention (or he could have been referencing thier IPO docs) it does mention that Marriott "can" do this but I question if they "Have" to do this. I would add a lot of value to Legacy owners but at a minimum cost of $10K or so for 1000 trust points.

 

[kjd]

Saying that everything is ok as long as one gets what they want is a nice platitude. That is, until you can't get what you want. Then it becomes a sad reality.

It's obvious that the reports are that the sales staff is telling legacy owners in these presentations that they better pony up and buy some new trust points if they want to stay in the game. While I've questioned the credibility of sales people that I've met in the past there may be an element of truth to what they are saying. Sales personnel often get their information from higher ups who like throwing out "trial baloons" to get customer reactions. We will see the answer to all of this as it plays out over time. So far, I think that things have worked out well for legacy owners who enrolled in the DC program. Even if you had purchased resale. I'm not as certain about buying trust points. I'm not one to defend Spinco's actions on the basis of their right to make money. They also have an obligation to their customers.

I get nervous when I hear that a corporate strategy of the Spinco is to buy existing properties that are below standard and bring them up to the same standard as we now have. I've personally tried to avoid staying in older properties because they are not likely to be as good as newer construction no matter how much remodeling was done. Sometimes you're better off tearing down an existing structure and starting over. Another way to bring these older properties into the program is to lower the current level of service for everyone. After all, there are people who complain about the cost of maintenance fees. That may be the other shoe that drops.

 

[Superchief]

Villa Request Priority: Trust Points = Homer resort owner

I'm at Oceana Palms now and am a legacy owner at this resort. I was told today that Trust points redeemers will have the same villa location priority as home resort owners, and that other legacy resorts will be moving to this same policy. I plan to confirm this with the resort manager later this week. If this is true, this is another example of MVC flagrantly violating their original sales promises. Has anyone else experienced this issue?

 

[TheTimeTraveler]

I'm at Oceana Palms now and am a legacy owner at this resort. I was told today that Trust points redeemers will have the same villa location priority as home resort owners, and that other legacy resorts will be moving to this same policy. I plan to confirm this with the resort manager later this week. If this is true, this is another example of MVC flagrantly violating their original sales promises. Has anyone else experienced this issue?

Actually, the only thing that anyone is guaranteed at Oceana Palms is Ocean Front Villa location, or Ocean View Villa location (Legacy & Points owners).

As for height location then I would think that would be first come, first served basis.

I don't view height as an issue at that resort since all Villas start on the 10th or 11th floor.




.

 

[dioxide45]

I think the reason for the great availability of inventory in DC points is because of the excess unsold inventory that Marriott has on it's books. This isn't any different than two years ago and the availability of inventory in II and the ability to get reservations.

Legacy owners just don't many other trust owners competing against them for DC point reservations. As the trust points sell down, I think getting those great reservations will be harder.

Evidence is there in II right now where Marriott sold, in a single day, all of the inventory to the trust. The glut of inventory is gone because someone ("DC") is using it, the same will happen when trust owners numbers get higher and they are using their ownership.

 

[dioxide45]

I'm at Oceana Palms now and am a legacy owner at this resort. I was told today that Trust points redeemers will have the same villa location priority as home resort owners, and that other legacy resorts will be moving to this same policy. I plan to confirm this with the resort manager later this week. If this is true, this is another example of MVC flagrantly violating their original sales promises. Has anyone else experienced this issue?

I could see this if trust points were used to book inventory directly out of trust inventory. They are owners using their time in this scenario. However, if it were trust points booking inventory from the exchange company, they shouldn't be considered an owner for villa requests.

The problem is that we are over a year in to DC, and even those resorts with very well defined hierarchy have not published updated "pecking orders" to account for the new Destinations Club.

 

[Superchief]

Actually, the only thing that anyone is guaranteed at Oceana Palms is Ocean Front Villa location, or Ocean View Villa location (Legacy & Points owners).

As for height location then I would think that would be first come, first served basis.

I don't view height as an issue at that resort since all Villas start on the 10th or 11th floor.




.

Although this is less of an issue at Oceana Palms until the new tower is completed (wih much less desirable ocean view villas), it will have much more impact in resorts like Ocean Pointe. I doubt that they will be able to track whether the inventory was from legacy or trust, so there will be a lot of angry home resort owners. As more villas are booked for shorter stays and midweek check-in, there will be fewer available for 'owner priority' on the weekend check-in dates.

 

[tlwmkw]

The trust points owners are owners of everything that is in the trust (even if only a tiny percentage of it) therefore they would have priority as owners at the resort. This will become a problem as more and more trust points are sold and then all the trust owners will be fighting for the best villas/views and all will have priority- it'll be like the Newport Coast Platinum season where no one can get what they want because the season is too long. Eventually no one will have priority except for those that hold the most trust points (plat and premier plat) and I'm sure that is exactly what MVCI wants because then they can talk you into buying more of the points to get a greater priority. Personally I don't care for this system but that's where it's going.

tlwmkw

 

[windje2000]

The trust points owners are owners of everything that is in the trust (even if only a tiny percentage of it) therefore they would have priority as owners at the resort. This will become a problem as more and more trust points are sold and then all the trust owners will be fighting for the best villas/views and all will have priority- it'll be like the Newport Coast Platinum season where no one can get what they want because the season is too long. Eventually no one will have priority except for those that hold the most trust points (plat and premier plat) and I'm sure that is exactly what MVCI wants because then they can talk you into buying more of the points to get a greater priority. Personally I don't care for this system but that's where it's going.

tlwmkw

I would think that would only be true only for occupancy owned by the trust that was reserved by a points owner . . . as opposed to occupancy obtained by a trust point owner from the exchange co.

An open question would be the priority associated with 'mixed' legacy/trust points reservations.

 

[SueDonJ]

I can see more resorts using the rotational system that most South Carolina resorts are using already, because it will allow Trust Members to be integrated into the "owners staying on their Weeks/Points" top priority, and it will satisfy the requirements that Weeks owners and Points users always get the particular unit configuration that they've purchased. The way the system works is, as an owner if you get the "best" of what's available in your purchased view one visit, your next visit you'll be rotated to the "worst." Sure it might mean that at some resorts the folks who have been used to getting the "best" every time around (like multi-week owners at NCV, for example) will have to get used to something else, but I never understood how that type of system was fair to all owners anyway.

FWIW, both of my resorts have published this Priority Placement System for Weeks owners in their newsletters for at least the last four years. So far they haven't sent out a revised edition that integrates Points owners/users.

 

[Bunk]

I would think that would only be true only for occupancy owned by the trust that was reserved by a points owner . . . as opposed to occupancy obtained by a trust point owner from the exchange co.

An open question would be the priority associated with 'mixed' legacy/trust points reservations.

I also suggest that a trust owner should at best have equal priority to a legacy owner if the trust owner reserves a full week and not less than a full week. It seems to me that allowing trust owners to reserve less than a week adversely affects the ability of the legacy owner to reserve a week.

 

[Superchief]

I also suggest that a trust owner should at best have equal priority to a legacy owner if the trust owner reserves a full week

I strongly disagree. A legacy owner purchased their home resort (and pay MF fees) with the intent to use the resort, and Marriott convinced many to buy mutiple weeks to enjoy reservation and villa location preferences. The legacy owner only has villa priority at the resort he/she owns. Are you saying a trust owner should have equal priority at all MVC resorts to legacy owners at each? Ownership should maintain home resort priveleges.

 

[dioxide45]

I strongly disagree. A legacy owner purchased their home resort (and pay MF fees) with the intent to use the resort, and Marriott convinced many to buy mutiple weeks to enjoy reservation and villa location preferences. The legacy owner only has villa priority at the resort he/she owns. Are you saying a trust owner should have equal priority at all MVC resorts to legacy owners at each? Ownership should maintain home resort priveleges.

But trust owners are owners at that resort when staying on a trust inventory booking. Trust owners are not exchanging when booking trust inventory. So they are staying on their owned time.

 

[jimf41]

I think Ocean Pointe has handled this issue nicely. They put multiple week and single week DC point stays right beneath the same owner week stays but before trade, MRP or rental stays.

 

[dioxide45]

I think Ocean Pointe has handled this issue nicely. They put multiple week and single week DC point stays right beneath the same owner week stays but before trade, MRP or rental stays.

If they did, they sure didn't update their hierarchy that they send out via e-mail after you make a villa request online.

This is copied from the e-mail we received.

1. Ocean Pointe multiple-week Owners occupying their ownership weeks. (in season)

2. Ocean Pointe single-week Owners occupying their ownership week. (in season).

3. Ocean Pointe multiple-week Owners exchanging through Interval International.

4. Ocean Pointe single-week Owners exchanging through Interval international.

5. Multiple-week Marriott Owners at other MVCI resorts exchanging into Ocean Pointe through Interval International.

6. Single-week Marriott Owners at other MVCI resort exchanging into Ocean Pointe through Interval International.

7. Ocean Pointe Owners that are renting a guest room or villa.

9. Marriott Reward Members that are renting a guest room or villa.

10. Owners or resorts outside of MVCI exchanging into Ocean Pointe through Interval International

As you see, no mention of DC at all. II is still mentioned.

 

[jimf41]

Dioxide,
I just read it recently but it's late. Tough day at the Kingdom with Mickey. I'll search for it tomorrow.

 

[sandytoes]

All I can say, as a lagacy owner of multiple weeks staying in my home resort of Ocean Point this week and also a DC member . . .if managament had given me the master key of the resort and said . . . pick any building, any floor and room location . . . I could not have picked a better room then the unit we have been assigned . . .one very happy camper at Ocean Point . . . even with the blowing winds and driving rain!

 

[jimf41]

Dioxide,
Just checked with the desk here at Lakeshore. Their room assignment priority is weeks owners at Lakeshore then they give equal priority to those using trust points, legacy points or MVCI owners using II. Still haven't found my reference for OP. I could be mistaken but I really thought I read in the last two or three weeks. I'll check when I get home.

 

[Superchief]

All I can say, as a lagacy owner of multiple weeks staying in my home resort of Ocean Point this week and also a DC member . . .if managament had given me the master key of the resort and said . . . pick any building, any floor and room location . . . I could not have picked a better room then the unit we have been assigned . . .one very happy camper at Ocean Point . . . even with the blowing winds and driving rain!

That's good to hear. I received clarification from the GM at Oceana Palms today. Although trust owners will receive the same location priority as home resort owners, the time when the reservation was made will also be factored into the priority of villa assignment. He said that most home resort owners make their reservations well in advance, while most trust reservations are made closer to the occupancy date. This makes sense to me. I can understand the challenge at Oceana Palms, since only about 30% of the units will be 'weeks' ownership. I think the management got frustrated with all of the complexities of trying to assign a priority hierarchy to accommodate all of the factors. I already made my reservation for 11/3 next year, and the second tower will not be complete at that time so I should still receive a good view.

Sandytoes: The rest of the week's weather is supposed to be ideal, so things are looking up.,