Are you contributing to a timeshare developer lobbying organization [ARDA-ROC] without knowing it? [MERGED]

[artringwald]

American Resort Development Association–Resort Owners’ Coalition (ARDA–ROC) is an organization that does lobbying to benefit timeshare developers. Sometimes their lobbying also benefits timeshare owners, but it's the developers that help fund ARDA–ROC. How do they fund it? Check the statement for your maintenance fees. Most developers add a line item something like "ARDA-ROC Voluntary Contribution" and is usually $5-10. It is voluntary, but you have to opt out if you don't want to contribute. It's not always clear or easy how to opt out, and varies by timeshare company.

If you don't want to contribute, find out how to opt out of paying ARDA–ROC and stop helping the developers change the laws.

 

[DrQ]

I deny the "optional" $5 contribution tacked on my fees each year.

 

[artringwald]

Last year when I paid all my fees except the $7 ARDA–ROC fee, I had to keep calling them over several weeks before they removed the $7 from my balance. This year Hilton Vacation Club removed it less than a week after I paid the rest of my fees. They should know retirees have plenty of time to pester them until they get it right.

 

[dioxide45]

find out how to opt out of paying ARDA–ROC and stop helping the developers change the laws.

While ARDA ROC gets a lot of bad press around here and rightfully so. They do help lobby for some timeshare laws favorable to owners. I recall them fighting back against a proposed plan in Hawaii to change the TSO (Timeshare Occupancy Tax) to be based on 100% of the maintenance fees for the timeshare week instead of the current 50%. This would have doubled the occupancy taxes that timeshare owners have to pay when staying in a timeshare in Hawaii. That said, I don't contribute...

 

[TUGBrian]

ill consider supporting arda/arda-roc when they make ANY effort whatsoever to take a stand against upfront fee resale/exit scams, which IMO is the number one issue facing timeshare owners today.

until then, they are simply another arm of the timeshare industry with an owner friendly name.

 

[artringwald]

I don't like contributing to any organization that camouflages an opt in "voluntary contribution" in a list of other charges, and then makes it difficult to opt out.

 

[vacationtime1]

I don't like contributing to any organization that camouflages an opt in "voluntary contribution" in a list of other charges, and then makes it difficult to opt out.

Nor do I, but the villain here is Marriott, not ARDA. And all other timeshare companies/managers who are doing ARDA's bidding.

The question is why. And what are Marriott and these companies getting in return?

 

[pedro47]

ill consider supporting arda/arda-roc when they make ANY effort whatsoever to take a stand against upfront fee resale/exit scams, which IMO is the number one issue facing timeshare owners today.

until then, they are simply another arm of the timeshare industry with an owner friendly name.

Right on TUGBRIAN. Tell it liked it is.

 

[dioxide45]

Nor do I, but the villain here is Marriott, not ARDA. And all other timeshare companies/managers who are doing ARDA's bidding.

The question is why. And what are Marriott and these companies getting in return?

Marriott is actually better than most. At least with Marriott it is a true opt in. Yes, the contribution is listed but the box contains $0 and the owner has to input a number. Many other systems they have to subtract the amount and then do something else to show paid in full.

 

[vacationtime1]

Marriott is actually better than most. At least with Marriott it is a true opt in. Yes, the contribution is listed but the box contains $0 and the owner has to input a number. Many other systems they have to subtract the amount and then do something else to show paid in full.

You’re right about Marriott; I meant Vistana (unless that changes this year).

 

[rickandcindy23]

Good news is that I just looked at our statements closely, and Vistana, specifically Sheraton Broadway Resort, has the opt-in add-on. That is a big deal to me. I wrote the BBB in Orlando and had a back and forth with Vistana over the fee, which I have paid many times without wanting to pay it. The people over the phone flatly refused to give me a refund, when I paid over my MF's to reserve over a year out.

Thank you @TUGBrian for helping with this. It's a win for TUG as well because Brian stood up against the powers that be and the pressure of that and my letter to the BBB about it seemed to work.

Now the fee is a $10 add-on, and I am sure people pay it without thinking it's a contribution to an organization not looking after our interests as timeshare owners.

 

[vacationtime1]

Good news is that I just looked at our statements closely, and Vistana, specifically Sheraton Broadway Resort, has the opt-in add-on. That is a big deal to me. I wrote the BBB in Orlando and had a back and forth with Vistana over the fee, which I have paid many times without wanting to pay it. The people over the phone flatly refused to give me a refund, when I paid over my MF's to reserve over a year out.

Thank you @TUGBrian for helping with this. It's a win for TUG as well because Brian stood up against the powers that be and the pressure of that and my letter to the BBB about it seemed to work.

Now the fee is a $10 add-on, and I am sure people pay it without thinking it's a contribution to an organization not looking after our interests as timeshare owners.

This is good news. We used to have the same issue as @rickandcindy23 when we owned SBP units and wanted to deposit them into Interval in advance of the use year (i.e. in advance of billing); we were stuck paying $5 x 2 units if we wanted to deposit early in order to get the best trading power.

Thank you to @TUGBrian, @rickandcindy23, and all you others who complained over the years and effectuated change.

 

[TUGBrian]

its still added on by default though? or do you have to select it now?

 

[SueDonJ]

its still added on by default though? or do you have to select it now?

With Marriott it's always been opt-in, the same as every other fee listed on the invoice. There's always been a disclaimer that explains exactly what the fee is, too, that's difficult to overlook. I don't have one in front of me so I don't know exactly what other fees are in the list but on the printed invoice and in the online system you input the amounts for each line and the total. I suppose that just having it in the list is a problem for some but I've always thought that, with Marriott bills anyway, it'd be hard to pay the "voluntary" fee and not know that you're doing so.

And I'll contribute to this yearly discussion the same comments I do every year - the "voluntary" fees are for the Resort Owners' Coalition of the American Resort Development Association political PAC, so ARDA-ROC as compared to ARDA. While it's true that ARDA-ROC is rarely if ever out-of-step with ARDA to the extent that it will register disagreement with ARDA, it does sometimes make the point by withholding support of ARDA's position. And, notably, it can be beneficial for our legislators to know when they're considering ARDA positions whether or not the owners are in agreement with the developers/managers. The website, arda-roc.org, does a good job keeping owners updated with what/where legislation might be in the works, and you don't have to be a member or pay fees to search their site. If you're a timeshare junkie who gets into the minutia, it's a good resource.

I don't disagree at all with Brian's position or anybody else's; I just have a different take. I have contributed to ARDA-ROC when timeshare tax issues have been on the table for my timeshares, but I'm not a regular rubber-stamp contributor. I also don't expect anybody to agree with my thoughts here without doing your own homework. I'm not the boss of you.

If this year it's true that Vistana is finally doing the same opt-in process as Marriott has always done, that's progress I'm very happy to see.

 

[1Kflyerguy]

Its been pretty easy to opt-out with both my HGV and MVC ownerships. Think i just click a box when I pay.

For anyone interested, here is what ARDA-ROC considers their wins for owners:

ROC Wins | Resort Owners' Coalition

ARDA-ROC’s unwavering and strategic support for owners has resulted in an impressive array of legislative and regulatory accomplishments.

www.arda-roc.org

 

[TUGBrian]

With Marriott it's always been opt-in, the same as every other fee listed on the invoice. There's always been a disclaimer that explains exactly what the fee is, too, that's difficult to overlook. I don't have one in front of me so I don't know exactly what other fees are in the list but on the printed invoice and in the online system you input the amounts for each line and the total. I suppose that just having it in the list is a problem for some but I've always thought that, with Marriott bills anyway, it'd be hard to pay the "voluntary" fee and not know that you're doing so.

And I'll contribute to this yearly discussion the same comments I do every year - the "voluntary" fees are for the Resort Owners' Coalition of the American Resort Development Association political PAC, so ARDA-ROC as compared to ARDA. While it's true that ARDA-ROC is rarely if ever out-of-step with ARDA to the extent that it will register disagreement with ARDA, it does sometimes make the point by withholding support of ARDA's position. And, notably, it can be beneficial for our legislators to know when they're considering ARDA positions whether or not the owners are in agreement with the developers/managers. The website, arda-roc.org, does a good job keeping owners updated with what/where legislation might be in the works, and you don't have to be a member or pay fees to search their site. If you're a timeshare junkie who gets into the minutia, it's a good resource.

I don't disagree at all with Brian's position or anybody else's; I just have a different take. I have contributed to ARDA-ROC when timeshare tax issues have been on the table for my timeshares, but I'm not a regular rubber-stamp contributor. I also don't expect anybody to agree with my thoughts here without doing your own homework. I'm not the boss of you.

If this year it's true that Vistana is finally doing the same opt-in process as Marriott has always done, that's progress I'm very happy to see.

im referring to vistana, as well as the other developers where its automatically included as part of the annual fee.

 

[rickandcindy23]

im referring to vistana, as well as the other developers where its automatically included as part of the annual fee.

No longer something I have to subtract. The statement reads like this:


Due Date N/A

Prior Balance Due
View Prior Year Balance Detail $ -1,262.66

Current Year Charges

Maintenance Fee(s) $ 1,262.66

Tax - If Applicable $ 0.00

Membership Fee - If Applicable $ 0.00

Other* $ 0.00

Interest $ 0.00

Late Fees $ 0.00

Sub-Total
Current Year Charges $ 1,262.66
Less Payments*** $ 0.00

Total Due $ 0.00


With voluntary ARDA-ROC or
ARDA-ROC PAC contribution.** $ 10.00

 

[TUGBrian]

nice! im actually quite pleased at that result!

wont go so far as to take credit for it happening, but regardless its a step in the right direction as far as owners are concerned! wonder if some of the others will follow suit!

I did not hear back from the DPBR inspector after speaking with him, did you fill out his complaint form? maybe that was the trigger for all of this!

 

[SueDonJ]

nice! im actually quite pleased at that result!

wont go so far as to take credit for it happening, but regardless its a step in the right direction as far as owners are concerned! wonder if some of the others will follow suit!

I did not hear back from the DPBR inspector after speaking with him, did you fill out his complaint form? maybe that was the trigger for all of this!

You might not be officially credited for it but I'll always believe that yours and @rickandcindy23's dogged determination were a factor in this change. It helps that PAC's are strictly regulated and running afoul of the regulations can be costly, sure, but you two brought it to the direct attention of the people who know why and how things needed to change. Very good job!

 

[rickandcindy23]

I think the complaint to the BBB might have helped, but I think there were others who were complaining about it, not just me. Most people will not take the time to file a complaint with the BBB.

One thing they did say was that they would credit back $5.00 overpayments, but they didn't do that.

I didn't fill out that form, @TUGBrian. I just had a back and forth with BBB and Vistana, BBB as the neutral party. I can only imagine the numbers of complaints the BBB gets for timeshare sales' tactics. I am sure this complaint was more easily solved for Vistana.

 

[vacationtime1]

nice! im actually quite pleased at that result!

wont go so far as to take credit for it happening, but regardless its a step in the right direction as far as owners are concerned! wonder if some of the others will follow suit!

I did not hear back from the DPBR inspector after speaking with him, did you fill out his complaint form? maybe that was the trigger for all of this!

I think the complaint to the BBB might have helped, but I think there were others who were complaining about it, not just me. Most people will not take the time to file a complaint with the BBB.

One thing they did say was that they would credit back $5.00 overpayments, but they didn't do that.

I didn't fill out that form, @TUGBrian. I just had a back and forth with BBB and Vistana, BBB as the neutral party. I can only imagine the numbers of complaints the BBB gets for timeshare sales' tactics. I am sure this complaint was more easily solved for Vistana.

You guys made noise. Things changed. Take a bow.

 

[Carolinian]

I have always owned at member-controlled resorts and never been confronted by these fees, which seem to be common at developer-controlled resorts. I agree that ARDA-ROC is a developer oriented bunch and should not have its fees billed this way.

The state agency that regulates timeshare is usually the state Real Estate Commission, and some of them are very proactive for timeshare members if you contract them. For years, the head of the timeshare section of the NC Real Estate Commission was Blackwell Brogden, and he was not afraid to knock heads with any developer, or exchange company for that matter on behalf of members. When RCI first rolled out RCI Points, Brogden objected to several provisions that he felt were unfair to members and told RCI that unless those for changed for the whole system, he was going make RCI Points register as a timesahre developer instead of a timeshare exchange program. RCI initiated balked, and Brogden started recruiting other state Real Estate Commissions to join his effort. RCI ultimarely cried uncle and agreed to all the changes Brogden demanded.

 

[rog2867]

I have always just not paid the fee. It says voluntary right on the bill. Never had an issue

 

[rickandcindy23]

I have always just not paid the fee. It says voluntary right on the bill. Never had an issue

Well, it was an issue with Vistana. It's also something one has to subtract from the Bluegreen statement. If you don't own Sheraton or Bluegreen, of course there are no issues reported here on TUG of other companies charging this fee. I have to look closely at my Wyndham statements each year.

Marriott has been opt-in for as long as I owned. Vistana required that we subtract the $5.00 from the total, but only on our Sheraton weeks. It was always my complaint with Sheraton/ Vistana.

I guess they increased it to $10 to get more money for ARDA after taking the $5.00 out of the total amount. I wish we could educate every timeshare owner on ARDA.

 

[heitmullerj02]

I always just subtracted it on my Vistana never had an issue with them showing it was still owed. I have not received my bill yet, will Look online. Also I paid my 2024 so I could trade in II, now it seems it’s 166.00 more, thank you Marriott.