Are you contributing to a timeshare developer lobbying organization [ARDA-ROC] without knowing it? [MERGED]

[DayTraveler]

This came with our new budget for Welk / Hyatt / Marriott. Would it please be ok to ask if you folks know if this group really helps owners or is it just another way for developers to pad their pockets? I felt like the timing was bad to be asking for donations when they are hitting us with an 18% hike.

 

[ScoopKona]

This came with our new budget for Welk / Hyatt / Marriott. Would it please be ok to ask if you folks know if this group really helps owners or is it just another way for developers to pad their pockets? I felt like the timing was bad to be asking for donations when they are hitting us with an 18% hike.

Your question was already answered elsewhere.

 

[Hindsite]

Scoop steered you right when he answered this before.

 

[SueDonJ]

This came with our new budget for Welk / Hyatt / Marriott. Would it please be ok to ask if you folks know if this group really helps owners or is it just another way for developers to pad their pockets? I felt like the timing was bad to be asking for donations when they are hitting us with an 18% hike.

[Moderator Note: I merged your question into the current thread about ARDA-ROC voluntary fees. Scroll up to the first post for TUGgers' opinions. ]

 

[pedro47]

Can ARDA-ROC lobby developers to develop an exit program for timeshare owners ?

 

[TUGBrian]

they have made zero effort to combat upfront fee resale or exit companies in the last 20 years....I wouldnt hold your breath.

 

[dioxide45]

they have made zero effort to combat upfront fee resale or exit companies in the last 20 years....I wouldnt hold your breath.

What is "Responsible Exit"?

 

[DayTraveler]

Your question was already answered elsewhere.

I understand. I shared your response and got some flack: "More accurately it is a lobbying group for the timeshare industry. But the primary beneficiaries are the developers. It has been an optional fee with my Vistana ownership for years". I did some reading and was trying to understand it better. I thought if I shared it as a stand alone question I might get more feedback. I understand how redundant questions are not overly helpful. I guess the point is keep it in the same post. My bad. : )

 

[TUGBrian]

What is "Responsible Exit"?

a website that lists a ton of exit programs, though nearly half of them dont result in meaningful exit options for owners! thats also touted by arda, vs arda-roc...though ill give them a pass on that!

bluegreen - no legitimate exit option for the average owner
capital resorts - no legitimate exit option for the average owner
club wyndham - free exit for paid off owner
diamond resorts - $1200 exit option for retail owner, no exit options for resale owner
hgvc - no exit program for average owner. (though many hgvc ownerships have resale value and thus this doesnt apply)
hicv - $1500 exit option
hyatt vacation club - no exit program for the average owner. (goes for both traditional hyatt and welk)
innseason resorts - not sure on this one, ive heard some owners with success, and others told no. so we'll call it a very selective exit program.
margaritaville - owned by wyndham...so kind of a duplicate
marriot vacation club - average owner can sell or give away, have never heard of an owner being unable to give away or give back a marriott ownership?
shell - owned by wyndham...triplicate
sheraton - vistana has a free deedback program
stoneridge - not sure on this one?
westgate resorts - $1500 VERY selective deedback program
westin - same as vistana
worldmark - owned by wyndham...but ill count this as a separate one. though worldmark almost always has resale value and does not need a deedback program?
windrifter - not familiar with this one?


summary:
Owners can give back for free: 3
Owners can give back for a fee: 3
systems where deedback isnt required: 2
systems with no deedback option for average owner: 5.5
systems with unknown deedback program details: 3


so yea, site is great if you own wyndham/subsidiary, marriott or vistana! also have SOME options if you own HICV, Dri (retail), or select westgates

no legitimate options despite advertising them: bluegreen, capital, hgvc mud ownerships, westgate mud ownerships, also not listed are exploria and sapphire/geo group....neither of which offer deedback programs for owners. and to add insult to injury, the site actively promotes some of the most common upfront fee resale companies in their "resale provider directory"


I was this sites greatest fan when it was released, imagining it as just the start of an industry wide program to provide reasonable exit options for owners....now years later its regressed into near uselessness and id go so far as to say the responsible exit website does more harm than good at this point to the average timeshare owner that may find it.

 

[dioxide45]

I don't know about Marriott Trust Points, but Marriott does take deeded weeks back for free. They do pay for a few that are prime resorts and seasons.

 

[TUGBrian]

yes the average marriott owner should not have a problem getting rid of an unwanted ownership in either deeded week or trust point.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Club Wyndham won't let us deed back our resale contracts. I know that is their policy for "most people."

We had about 15 of them we were wanting to deed back, but the answer was a firm no. I still have about 8 to give away. It seems that Wyndham picks and chooses who can deed back, and I think it's just a punishment specifically for us as mega renters. What's good for others is not good for us because we were bad and rented reservations. We stopped when we were told, but that is not good enough for Wyndham corporate. We need to feel the pain of our actions. It's rather petty. You know they could sell what we have as CWA easily enough.

Many here will defend Wyndham because they cannot believe we would blatantly rent, as the salespeople advertised. Rentals were huge in 2007, when we started. Now it's frowned upon even by TUG, the place where I learned how to go about it.

 

[PcflEZFlng]

a website that lists a ton of exit programs, though nearly half of them dont result in meaningful exit options for owners! thats also touted by arda, vs arda-roc...though ill give them a pass on that!

sheraton - vistana has a free deedback program

summary:
Owners can give back for free: 3

so yea, site is great if you own wyndham/subsidiary, marriott or vistana! also have SOME options if you own HICV, Dri (retail), or select westgates

I wouldn't give Vistana credit as having a completely legitimate feedback program, in the sense that if you approach them, and your contract fits within their description of what they'll take back, then you're in luck. Um, no. They're selective about what they'll take back. They refused to take back mine, even though my contract "qualified". That was my experience a few years ago. Fortunately I was able to give mine away on TUG - and then Vistana ROFR'd it anyway!

 

[dioxide45]

I wouldn't give Vistana credit as having a completely legitimate feedback program, in the sense that if you approach them, and your contract fits within their description of what they'll take back, that they'll automatically do it. Um, no. They're selective about what they'll take back. They refused to take back mine, even though my contract "qualified". That was my experience a few years ago. Fortunately I was able to give mine away on TUG - and then Vistana ROFR'd it anyway!

What resort was it?

 

[PcflEZFlng]

What resort was it?

Mission Hills Villas in Rancho Mirage.

 

[TUGBrian]

that is the first ive heard of a vistana resort being denied a deedback since marriott took over?

the only limitation ive seen relating to vistana are for ownerships outside the US (harborside for instance)

 

[TUGBrian]

Club Wyndham won't let us deed back our resale contracts. I know that is their policy for "most people."

We had about 15 of them we were wanting to deed back, but the answer was a firm no. I still have about 8 to give away. It seems that Wyndham picks and chooses who can deed back, and I think it's just a punishment specifically for us as mega renters. What's good for others is not good for us because we were bad and rented reservations. We stopped when we were told, but that is not good enough for Wyndham corporate. We need to feel the pain of our actions. It's rather petty. You know they could sell what we have as CWA easily enough.

Many here will defend Wyndham because they cannot believe we would blatantly rent, as the salespeople advertised. Rentals were huge in 2007, when we started. Now it's frowned upon even by TUG, the place where I learned how to go about it.

i thought id read you were only trying to give back some of your ownerships, vs all? though id agree it seems silly to not accept them even if that is the case?

its certainly rare to hear a wyndham ownership NOT be accepted back (other than the fiascos regarding the canadian ones) if it was paid off and the owner was in good standing.

My rating standard is fairly easy!

If the average owner is able to give their timeshare back working with the resort...i consider that resort or system having a legitimate exit program.

If the average owner can NOT expect to be able to give their ownership back, then id consider that system to have a very selective if not ineffective exit program

and if the average owner flat out has zero shot at surrendering an ownership back, Id consider that system to have no exit program...and its extremely frustrating to see resorts fall into this category that STILL get promoted on responsible exit.

 

[DayTraveler]

[Moderator Note: I merged your question into the current thread about ARDA-ROC voluntary fees. Scroll up to the first post for TUGgers' opinions. Thank you. : )

 

[DayTraveler]

Your question was already answered elsewhere. Thank you.

 

[LannyPC]

...Hawaii to change the TSO (Timeshare Occupancy Tax) ...

Is that Timeshare Occupancy Tax or Transient Occupancy Tax? IIRC, the tax was (and still is) being charged on hotel/motel rooms because they were transiently occupied, but not on TSs because these were owned by the people staying there. However, the motel/hotel industry thought this was unfair that TSs should be exempt from the tax while hotels and motels had to pay it because as "residents" moved, the furnishings and employees remained, hence making TSs a transient occupancy.

Or are these two different taxes?

 

[dioxide45]

Is that Timeshare Occupancy Tax or Transient Occupancy Tax? IIRC, the tax was (and still is) being charged on hotel/motel rooms because they were transiently occupied, but not on TSs because these were owned by the people staying there. However, the motel/hotel industry thought this was unfair that TSs should be exempt from the tax while hotels and motels had to pay it because as "residents" moved, the furnishings and employees remained, hence making TSs a transient occupancy.

Or are these two different taxes?

They are but they aren't. There are two taxes GET and TAT (Transient Accommodations Tax). When you rent your week out for cash, you are supposed to collect GET and TAT and remit them to the state of Hawaii. Both are based on the rental proceeds (rental cost) of what you are renting out. Perhaps the hotel lobby lobbied for GET and TAT on timeshare rentals too. The big brands collect this if you rent nightly off their website or other travel company. The problem they saw was that timeshare owners weren't paying either tax. GET doesn't apply to a timeshare owner because they aren't paying cash for their stay. So they needed to charge them TAT but there are no rental proceeds to calculate it off of. So they came up with a calculation for Timeshare Occupancy Tax (TSO). TSO replaces TAT for timeshare based stays. A problem I see is that when an owner rents out their week, they are collecting (or should be, or Redweek does) GET and TAT. Then when the guest says, they are paying TSO.

Here is something that explains it.

https://files.hawaii.gov/tax/legal/brochures/TAT_brochure-23.pdf

 

[TheHolleys87]

They are but they aren't. There are two taxes GET and TAT (Transient Accommodations Tax). When you rent your week out for cash, you are supposed to collect GET and TAT and remit them to the state of Hawaii. Both are based on the rental proceeds (rental cost) of what you are renting out. Perhaps the hotel lobby lobbied for GET and TAT on timeshare rentals too. The big brands collect this if you rent nightly off their website or other travel company. The problem they saw was that timeshare owners weren't paying either tax. GET doesn't apply to a timeshare owner because they aren't paying cash for their stay. So they needed to charge them TAT but there are no rental proceeds to calculate it off of. So they came up with a calculation for Timeshare Occupancy Tax (TSO). TSO replaces TAT for timeshare based stays. A problem I see is that when an owner rents out their week, they are collecting (or should be, or Redweek does) GET and TAT. Then when the guest says, they are paying TSO.

Here is something that explains it.

https://files.hawaii.gov/tax/legal/brochures/TAT_brochure-23.pdf

Interesting. DVC owners who book Aulani with DVC points are charged the TAT based on the umber of DVC points used for the stay. DVC publishes the TAT chart each year - https://cdn2.parksmedia.wdprapps.di...-resorts/2023-HI-TAT-Web-Cht-Final-122722.pdf. I wonder if it’s because AUL operates as a TS and a hotel?

 

[dioxide45]

every one on this thread be advised the MF increase this year is a breach of contract and please contact me to find out more

Does your contract stipulate a limit to the amount the annual maintenance fees can increase? You also made a rather overall statement as to it impacting all timeshares, this isn't the case. Each resort will have different rules about maintenance fee increases.

 

[dayooper]

hgvc - no exit program for average owner. (though many hgvc ownerships have resale value and thus this doesnt apply)

I am hopeful this is changing to be more than this. There have been reports HGVC has been taking deeds back. In this thread, there's a couple of forum members that have been able to get HGVC to take back their deeds, even shoulder season at high MF resorts. Hopefully this is just how things will be from now on.

Any recent information about deed back to HGVC? I'm looking for contact information for inside HGVC, not for outside timeshare resale brokers.

We own a deeded one-week timeshare at West 57th by Hilton in NYC. It is paid off and dues are current through the end of 2023. Due to my husband's age and poor health we can't use it any longer. I asked about deed back the last time we used it and was told that someone named "Seth" (no last...

tugbbs.com

 

[TUGBrian]

we always advise owners to try, as it costs nothing to ask!