Are Marriott properties no longer a part of Interval ?

[winger]

Recording without sales' knowledge, care to share a link that lists the states?

 

[dioxide45]

Recording without sales' knowledge, care to share a link that lists the states?

Just Google "two party consent states". It would be perfectly fine to record in states that are not two party consent. CA and FL are two party consent.

 

[rthib]

Just Google "two party consent states". It would be perfectly fine to record in states that are not two party consent. CA and FL are two party consent.

Or simply start the meeting saying, "Is there any issues with me recording so I don't forget anything."

 

[DRH90277]

The last contract I signed with MVC included provisions such that I could only rely on what was in the written contract. Any representations by the salesperson don't matter.

So, record or don't record, does it really matter?

My protection is in reading the documents and in the right of rescission. I've rescinded about 6 times per MVC's notes and I'm still alive.

 

[bnoble]

Recording with permission (in two-party states) or disclosure (one-party) would potentially reduce the worst of the lies, even though verbal representations don't carry contractual weight.

 

[michael49]

The last contract I signed with MVC included provisions such that I could only rely on what was in the written contract. Any representations by the salesperson don't matter.

So, record or don't record, does it really matter?

Our protection is in reading the documents and in the rescission. I've rescinded about 6 times per MVC and I'm still alive.

From a purely legal standpoint that's always been true. But recording the meeting might cause the salesperson to be more honest.

 

[DRH90277]

From a purely legal standpoint that's always been true. But recording the meeting might cause the salesperson to be more honest.

If invited into the lion's cage, would recording the "presentation" matter? Look, it's just like this and we just keep going back.

 

[dioxide45]

The only time a recording would be of any use would be if you purchased and later felt you were lied to. If you don't buy anything, it won't matter.

 

[RookWDW]

The last contract I signed with MVC included provisions such that I could only rely on what was in the written contract. Any representations by the salesperson don't matter.

So, record or don't record, does it really matter?

My protection is in reading the documents and in the right of rescission. I've rescinded about 6 times per MVC's notes and I'm still alive.

The language is called a "merger" or "integration" clause. It acts to waive representations made that were not explicitly written into the agreement. However, you cannot waive or intergrate away a claim for fraudulent inducement and no contract can waive a criminal liability (i.e. criminal fraud).

Fraudulent inducement is more than simply saying something verbally that is not in the agreement. It has to be a known untrue statement made with the intention to induce you into signing the agreement. But, for example if they say that they will waive your annual dues for ten years, and it is not in the contract, that is not necessary fraud. They can simply say that there were negotiations and offers made but at the end the parties agreed on what was in the contract.

But ... if they flat out lie to you and effectively threaten you by saying your existing ownership no longer works (worse if they show a book claiming it as proof when they know it isn't per the OP), that is fraud.

1.The other party made a fraudulent misrepresentation of the facts

2.The misrepresentation must be material to the transaction occurring between the parties

3.The perpetrator of the fraud must know that the misrepresentation was false

4.The perpetrator made the misrepresentation with the intent to persuade the victim into agreeing to the contract or transaction

5.The victim relied on the misrepresentation

6.The victim wouldn’t have agreed to engage in the transaction or contract if he or she would have known the truth

 

[davidvel]

The language is called a "merger" or "integration" clause. It acts to waive representations made that were not explicitly written into the agreement. However, you cannot waive or intergrate away a claim for fraudulent inducement and no contract can waive a criminal liability (i.e. criminal fraud).

Fraudulent inducement is more than simply saying something verbally that is not in the agreement. It has to be a known untrue statement made with the intention to induce you into signing the agreement. But, for example if they say that they will waive your annual dues for ten years, and it is not in the contract, that is not necessary fraud. They can simply say that there were negotiations and offers made but at the end the parties agreed on what was in the contract.

But ... if they flat out lie to you and effectively threaten you by saying your existing ownership no longer works (worse if they show a book claiming it as proof when they know it isn't per the OP), that is fraud.

1.The other party made a fraudulent misrepresentation of the facts

2.The misrepresentation must be material to the transaction occurring between the parties

3.The perpetrator of the fraud must know that the misrepresentation was false

4.The perpetrator made the misrepresentation with the intent to persuade the victim into agreeing to the contract or transaction

5.The victim relied on the misrepresentation

6.The victim wouldn’t have agreed to engage in the transaction or contract if he or she would have known the truth

Yep, you nailed it.

 

[DRH90277]

Good to know. Have you ever heard of anyone prevailing in one of these claims against MVC? Or, even being successful in voiding the contract?

 

[sponger76]

Good to know. Have you ever heard of anyone prevailing in one of these claims against MVC? Or, even being successful in voiding the contract?

One would think that if it were as ironclad as he is suggesting and how prevalent we all know these misleading types of sales tactics are, with our extremely litigious society multiple people would have went to court and won against MVC (and most of the other major industry players, as these types of tactics are common) by now.

 

[RookWDW]

Good to know. Have you ever heard of anyone prevailing in one of these claims against MVC? Or, even being successful in voiding the contract?

Fraud claims on contracts generally are pretty prevalent. However, they rarely result in judicial orders rather parties settle due to the risk of winning or losing. I've been involved in quite a few (not timeshare related), and all have settled before the petitions were filed. It's usually pretty clear if there is a legit claim for fraudulent inducement to a contract. If there is a good claim, the company will eventually back down and no one will really know what happened. If there isn't a good claim, the claim will get struck pretty early on and either other claims will continue or eventually the plaintiff will accept some meager settlement or walk away. There are some rulings where timeshare companies have lost these claims. Usually it's a case by the timeshare company to enforce payment terms on the contract, and the owner uses fraudulent inducement as a defense to void the contract.

 

[RookWDW]

One would think that if it were as ironclad as he is suggesting and how prevalent we all know these misleading types of sales tactics are, with our extremely litigious society multiple people would have went to court and won against MVC (and most of the other major industry players, as these types of tactics are common) by now.

I never said anything was ironclad. Nothing in the law is ironclad, hence why the vast majority of all cases settle, usually before the case is filed in court.

 

[RunCat]

Good to know. Have you ever heard of anyone prevailing in one of these claims against MVC? Or, even being successful in voiding the contract?

Welk lost a lawsuit a few years ago (2020) due to salesperson misrepresentation. Restitution was $5.5M. After that, all contract signings were video-tapped to ensure that the buyers could acknowledge what they were purchasing without a salesperson hovering.

 

[davidvel]

Welk lost a lawsuit a few years ago (2020) due to salesperson misrepresentation. Restitution was $5.5M. After that, all contract signings were video-tapped to ensure that the buyers could acknowledge what they were purchasing without a salesperson hovering.

Of course they video tape the part that they want to hold against the buyer, but don't allow recording of the sales process (the inducement).

 

[DRH90277]

One would think that if it were as ironclad as he is suggesting and how prevalent we all know these misleading types of sales tactics are, with our extremely litigious society multiple people would have went to court and won against MVC (and most of the other major industry players, as these types of tactics are common) by now.

Might be but isn't it more like a single honeybee trying to attack a bear who is raiding its hive.

 

[sponger76]

Might be but isn't it more like a single honeybee trying to attack a bear who is raiding its hive.

A court victory causing the practices to be invalidated would be more like the tree the hive is on falling on the bear, causing it to think twice about similar behavior in the future.

 

[DRH90277]

A court victory causing the practices to be invalidated would be more like the tree the hive is on falling on the bear, causing it to think twice about similar behavior in the future.

First, do you own any MVC resorts or points?

Illegal practices - Show me one or two of these claims involving Marriott that has occurred in the past 5 years with the outcome. What are the "top of the list practices" you are talking about or are you just speculating about perceived injustices? Or, does the absence of these cases being brought to justice mean anything.

Many of us are not totally satisfied with MVC but we learn to use the system to our advantage. We "rescind" quickly, we buy resale, we're careful about buying points, and we work the system to our advantage in a legitimate fashion.

Nonparticipation in timeshare is an option for each of us.

 

[sponger76]

First, do you own any MVC resorts or points?

Illegal practices - Show me one or two of these claims involving Marriott that has occurred in the past 5 years with the outcome. What are the "top of the list practices" you are talking about or are you just speculating about perceived injustices? Or, does the absence of these cases being brought to justice mean anything.

Many of us are not totally satisfied with MVC but we learn to use the system to our advantage. We "rescind" quickly, we buy resale, we're careful about buying points, and we work the system to our advantage in a legitimate fashion.

Nonparticipation in timeshare is an option for each of us.

I do own an MVC week (unenrolled), and have Abound points via Vistana as well. But nice try.

As for claiming illegal practices, I didn't bring that up and make that claim, so it's kind of weird you're trying to pin that on me. I was responding to your post referring to comments made upthread by yet another poster talking about how the no reliance on verbal representations clauses present in timeshare contracts don't pass legal muster when salespeople make false claims. This applies not just to MVC, but pretty much every major timeshare brand, as you see similar complaints about salespeople for them, here on TUG. and elsewhere

 

[DRH90277]

An unenrolled week shows wisdom - to many of us. With those positions, MVC will chase you like choice game in a safari. So many options and good luck.

I think our chances of prevailing are minimal as the timeshare industry is dominant, well-funded, and insulated by good legal advice on the front end. Illegal is probably too strong a term. Aggressive and predatory, in my view, might be better characterizations, and they are smart. Also, complaints are likely scrutinized and negotiated probably quietly and quickly to an acceptable state.

All the best.

 

[WBP]

We've kept one of our Marriott properties strictly for an interval trader. However, today we were informed that beginning in 2024, Marriott, Westin, and Sheraton properties would no longer be included in Interval, so there would be no more Marriott to Marriott trades. We were shown a 2024 Interval directory and there were no Abound properties. Has anyone else been notified of this change?

Rather than rely on TUG members, who are not agents of Marriott Vacation Club, for a non-official response, and who cannot speak on behalf of Marriott Vacation Club, why don't you send a Certified Letter to the President of Marriott Vacation Club, John E. Geller, Jr, pose your very specific question(s) to him, and request/demand an answer, in writing, from him, to your questions. If it were me, I'd copy the Chairman of the Board of Marriott Vacations Worldwide, William J. Shaw, and the Chairman of the Board of Marriott International, David S. Marriott, on that letter (to ensure that they are aware of the shenanigans at Marriott Vacation Club, which you can be sure they are being sheltered of).

I am so over/done with these Marriott Vacation Club leaders, and MVC's lying and deception. I say hold the MVC leaders accountable for the lying, deception and dishonest culture that their corporation embodies.

 

[PaulaC]

Rather than rely on TUG members, who are not agents of Marriott Vacation Club, for a non-official response, and who cannot speak on behalf of Marriott Vacation Club, why don't you send a Certified Letter to the President of Marriott Vacation Club, John E. Geller, Jr, pose your very specific question(s) to him, and request/demand an answer, in writing, from him, to your questions. If it were me, I'd copy the Chairman of the Board of Marriott Vacations Worldwide, William J. Shaw, and the Chairman of the Board of Marriott International, David S. Marriott, on that letter (to ensure that they are aware of the shenanigans at Marriott Vacation Club, which you can be sure they are being sheltered of).

I am so over/done with these Marriott Vacation Club leaders, and MVC's lying and deception. I say hold the MVC leaders accountable for the lying, deception and dishonest culture that their corporation embodies.

I did contact Marriott Vacation Club directly the morning after I posted my original question. I believe the offending sales representative was dealt with as well, since I made sure that I informed everyone of her fraudulent claims.

 

[kozykritter]

Recording with permission (in two-party states) or disclosure (one-party) would potentially reduce the worst of the lies, even though verbal representations don't carry contractual weight.

One thing I learned researching the matter before recording a sale presentation is to legally record in a one-way consent state, you have to be with your recording device the entire time it is actively recording ie. continually giving consent. You can't leave it in the space actively recording and go somewhere else like to the restroom because then you are relying of the consent of any other party present to fulfill the one-way consent requirement and you would have had to have gotten that upfront.