Are Marriott properties no longer a part of Interval ?

[dougp26364]

Certainly won’t be the first for outright fraud and won’t be the last. It’s one of the reasons timeshare has such a bad rep

 

[timsi]

We've kept one of our Marriott properties strictly for an interval trader. However, today we were informed that beginning in 2024, Marriott, Westin, and Sheraton properties would no longer be included in Interval, so there would be no more Marriott to Marriott trades. We were shown a 2024 Interval directory and there were no Abound properties. Has anyone else been notified of this change?

You go on social media for information and to sales meetings to collect points and vouchers. Not the other way around.

 

[kozykritter]

It legally isn't fraud if it has a kernel of truth to it, and most of the reported sales pitches here fit that bill just like this one does. It's just not the whole story (i.e. it only affects those booking with points in II, same as it has always been). As frustrating as it might be, there is no legal obligation on their part to disclose all of the facets involved concerning the kernel of truth that has been presented. Tailoring which information to selectively share with a sale prospect is a sales technique as old as time. When I sold Starwood Vacation Ownership back in the day, the motto they told me to remember when selling was "know all you tell, but don't tell all you know". When I asked why, they told me that you risk completely overloading the buyer's brain and then they won't be able to make a decision. Me, I'd still want to know all the details but not everyone is the same.

 

[RookWDW]

That's not correct. If most of what you said was knowingly and intentionally wrong, but a part was true, its still fraud. Intentionally omitting a material fact that results the other parts of what you say to be untrue, is also fraud. Sales people may not get criminally charged for it (I'm not sure how often they may or may not), but there are cases where timeshares sales were voided due to fraudulent inducement. You have to prove it, and there are a number of challenges to prove it, but I looked up cases on it a couple years ago.

 

[kozykritter]

I understand what you are saying. I'm talking about the legal standard of fraud for a successful lawsuit/claim, not the moral code surrounding it. For a company to be convicted they would have to have been egregiously violating the law, likely the case in the few lawsuits that you saw.

People throw the term fraud around on here all the time and I assume that to be opinion, not necessarily a legally provable fact. I was just commenting on that difference by providing the legal perspective as well as perhaps the timeshare sales philosophy involved. If you want to get technical, calling Marriott or its salespeople fraudulent could be considered defamation without legally substantial proof to back it up. Of course I doubt anyone would put the resources into trying to make that defamation claim but same thing as above.

 

[rthib]

It legally isn't fraud if it has a kernel of truth to it, and most of the reported sales pitches here fit that bill just like this one does. It's just not the whole story (i.e. it only affects those booking with points in II, same as it has always been). As frustrating as it might be, there is no legal obligation on their part to disclose all of the facets involved concerning the kernel of truth that has been presented. Tailoring which information to selectively share with a sale prospect is a sales technique as old as time. When I sold Starwood Vacation Ownership back in the day, the motto they told me to remember when selling was "know all you tell, but don't tell all you know". When I asked why, they told me that you risk completely overloading the buyer's brain and then they won't be able to make a decision. Me, I'd still want to know all the details but not everyone is the same.

If what was reported, it went beyond a kernel of truth. Saying you won’t have access is sales puffery. Saying that they will no longer be part of II and then showing the book as proof is a step beyond. I am not suggesting legal action, but this should not be tolerated by the Sales Manager or Marriott corporate.

 

[davidvel]

I understand what you are saying. I'm talking about the legal standard of fraud for a successful lawsuit/claim, not the moral code surrounding it. For a company to be convicted they would have to have been egregiously violating the law, likely the case in the few lawsuits that you saw.

People throw the term fraud around on here all the time and I assume that to be opinion, not necessarily a legally provable fact. I was just commenting on that difference by providing the legal perspective as well as perhaps the timeshare sales philosophy involved. If you want to get technical, calling Marriott or its salespeople fraudulent could be considered defamation without legally substantial proof to back it up. Of course I doubt anyone would put the resources into trying to make that defamation claim but same thing as above.

You are completely and utterly wrong, and should stop trying to be a lawyer. There is no "egregious" requirement as you claim. Adding a "kernel of truth" does not vitiate fraud, and there is a legal obligation to disclose certain facts. "Tailoring which information to selectively share with a sale prospect," and not telling all you know is also likely concealment (see below.)
The facts here (lying about Marriott not being in Interval and showing a book meant for points exchangers and not weeks owners) fulfills all of the elements of fraud, plain and simple.

Concealment is also considered fraud. Parties to a contract are required to disclose material facts that they know or suspect the other party does not know.

Yes, there may or may not be some defenses, and fraud is difficult to prove, but the above is the law in almost every state. And in 39 of those states you can legally record your conversation with the salesperson without their knowledge.

 

[tschwa2]

In our 13 years of points/weeks, we have never used points in Interval, just weeks. And we've always just received one Interval book per year with everything included.

and you will continue to receive the book you always did, or at least will be able to access it online, with Marriots and all. It was a scare tactic to make you buy more points. I doubt whoever was selling you, even knows how II works. They just vaguely heard that you can't use abound points to exchange back into Marriott or westin properties through II. They purposely don't learn the ins and outs of things like II, so when they tell you something that they heard would be a good tactic to sell, they aren't lying, they are just telling it as they heard or understand that it works.

 

[RunCat]

You are completely and utterly wrong, and should stop trying to be a lawyer. There is no "egregious" requirement as you claim. Adding a "kernel of truth" does not vitiate fraud, and there is a legal obligation to disclose certain facts. "Tailoring which information to selectively share with a sale prospect," and not telling all you know is also likely concealment (see below.)
The facts here (lying about Marriott not being in Interval and showing a book meant for points exchangers and not weeks owners) fulfills all of the elements of fraud, plain and simple.

Concealment is also considered fraud. Parties to a contract are required to disclose material facts that they know or suspect the other party does not know.

Yes, there may or may not be some defenses, and fraud is difficult to prove, but the above is the law in almost every state. And in 39 of those states you can legally record your conversation with the salesperson without their knowledge.

That’s why validation officers do what they do during the paperwork signing process. Their job is to state the facts and have purchasers acknowledge their understanding of what they are signing. I‘ve seen some use video cameras to provide proof in case of lawsuit.

 

[tschwa2]

That’s why validation officers do what they do during the paperwork signing process. Their job is to state the facts and have purchasers acknowledge their understanding of what they are signing. I‘ve seen some use video cameras to provide proof in case of lawsuit.

and in no part of that process will they mention that vacation club properties either will or will not be eligible to exchange through II. The sales person is selling points and those cannot be exchanged into Marriott's using II. The verification process will not go over what you are eligible to use your legacy weeks.

 

[gln60]

We've kept one of our Marriott properties strictly for an interval trader. However, today we were informed that beginning in 2024, Marriott, Westin, and Sheraton properties would no longer be included in Interval, so there would be no more Marriott to Marriott trades. We were shown a 2024 Interval directory and there were no Abound properties. Has anyone else been notified of this change?

i have been hearing Marriot Vacation Club properties will no longer be exchanged through interval 10 years ago…9years ago….8years ago….7 years ago..5 years ago and year after year…Marriots ARE NOT going anywhere…rest assured.

 

[dioxide45]

It legally isn't fraud if it has a kernel of truth to it, and most of the reported sales pitches here fit that bill just like this one does. It's just not the whole story (i.e. it only affects those booking with points in II, same as it has always been). As frustrating as it might be, there is no legal obligation on their part to disclose all of the facets involved concerning the kernel of truth that has been presented. Tailoring which information to selectively share with a sale prospect is a sales technique as old as time. When I sold Starwood Vacation Ownership back in the day, the motto they told me to remember when selling was "know all you tell, but don't tell all you know". When I asked why, they told me that you risk completely overloading the buyer's brain and then they won't be able to make a decision. Me, I'd still want to know all the details but not everyone is the same.

But there wasn't a kernel of truth. The salesperson knew the context because the OP owned weeks and based on that they were speaking to weeks based usage. Salespeople will seldom get charged with fraud. On a personal, at most, they would be fired. Nothing more. On a company level, they could possibly get fined. Diamond paid out $700,000 to the state of Arizona for deceptive sales practices. I doubt anything personally happened to a sales person. $700K was really just a cost of doing business.

 

[ilene13]

I assume it is not true as Marriott owns II. In addition, I have not received a print edition of the II book in years- it's strictly online

 

[SueDonJ]

Most of the time, IMO, sales reps get it wrong because they simply don't know the product, don't own it, don't use it.

This isn't one of those times. Over the years there have always been system-specific versions of II's book and the sales reps know that. There's no way that this rep didn't know that the book s/he was showing was specific to Marriott Club Points owners and that there's another version for Marriott Weeks Owners. If this isn't a deliberate misrepresentation made to scare someone into buying points, I don't know what would be.

I'd escalate this to exec level with a snail mail to the corporate office, naming and shaming the sales rep, and addressing three separate copies/envelopes to:

John E. Geller, Jr.; President and Chief Executive Officer
James H. Hunter, IV; Executive VP and General Counsel
Brian E. Miller; President, Vacation Ownership

Marriott Vacations Worldwide
Global Corporate Headquarters
9002 San Marco Ct.
Orlando, FL 32819

They don't like to put anything in writing unless they're forced so it's highly likely that the response will come as a phone call from someone at a high level, but in my experience an inquiry sent this way does not get simply ignored.

 

[Pamplemousse]

My question to a sales person who says MVC is leaving II is what about the thousands of legacy weeks owners who use II to exchange internally?
How do they plan to get away with rescinding of their ability for internal exchange?
Will there be a new internal exchange program?
Will those weeks be automatically enrolled in points?

Doesn‘t make sense when you think about it and so very unlikely to be true.
But TS sales rely on pressure to make snap decisions before you have time to think things through and research.
And that’s why they have a bad reputation.

 

[gln60]

My question to a sales person who says MVC is leaving II is what about the thousands of legacy weeks owners who use II to exchange internally?
How do they plan to get away with rescinding of their ability for internal exchange?
Will there be a new internal exchange program?
Will those weeks be automatically enrolled in points?

Doesn‘t make sense when you think about it and so very unlikely to be true.
But TS sales rely on pressure to make snap decisions before you have time to think things through and research.
And that’s why they have a bad reputation.

Exactly

 

[PaulaC]

It legally isn't fraud if it has a kernel of truth to it, and most of the reported sales pitches here fit that bill just like this one does. It's just not the whole story (i.e. it only affects those booking with points in II, same as it has always been). As frustrating as it might be, there is no legal obligation on their part to disclose all of the facets involved concerning the kernel of truth that has been presented. Tailoring which information to selectively share with a sale prospect is a sales technique as old as time. When I sold Starwood Vacation Ownership back in the day, the motto they told me to remember when selling was "know all you tell, but don't tell all you know". When I asked why, they told me that you risk completely overloading the buyer's brain and then they won't be able to make a decision. Me, I'd still want to know all the details but not everyone is the same.

There wasn't a kernel of truth in the facts that the representative stated. I was a licensed realtor for over 15 years and I can tell you that this was fraud. We've owned Marriott properties since 2001 and are Chairman's Club status, so we aren't new to this program. We were speaking of one property in Florida that was our first purchase and that we use strictly for trading. First, the sales person used the fact that our maintenance fees are out of proportion to the number of points we earn for it. When we stated that we were aware of that (my husband is a CPA, so you know we are cognizant of that kind of information), but the trades we receive make it worth that cost, and we have no intention of making any changes. The sales rep then stated that it would all change beginning in 2024, they were removing all the Marriott properties from Interval. I remarked that it seemed unbelievable that Marriott would do that since they owned Interval. We said we thought it sounded strange and were told she would prove it to us by showing us the 2024 Interval directory (this was on a virtual presentation, so we couldn't actually touch the book). I asked to see several areas where Marriott has properties and there were none to be found. After the presentation, I posted my initial question and shortly thereafter I contacted MVCI corporate to ask the question. I was informed that this was not the case, so I proceeded to contact Marriott's consumer advocacy group, as well as the sales manager for the sales executive to register my complaint. Hopefully, Marriott will take action and fire this person.

 

[Dean]

Hopefully, Marriott will take action and fire this person.

More likely promote them.

 

[The Colorado Kid]

More likely promote them.

100%

 

[rthib]

@PaulaC Thank you for following through like you did.

 

[dioxide45]

Most of the time, IMO, sales reps get it wrong because they simply don't know the product, don't own it, don't use it.

Whart are you saying? Every presentation I have ever been to, the salesperson owned at least some amount of timeshare weeks or points. Are you saying they are lying?

 

[bnoble]

On that note, I ran into a sales agent at Wyndham Smoky not too long ago when I went to borrow a marker to fill in the NP parking pass. He wasn't an owner and was pretty green, and I think I sold him on buying resale.

 

[rickandcindy23]

There are 2 versions of II physical books. The regular one has all the properties. There is another one that excludes Marriott properties. With Abound points, you cannot trade back into Marriott properties. I have both books, although I have not received one lately. You can only trade back to Marriott properties with a Marriott or other weeks.

Wow, I just learned something new today. Thank you for clarifying.

Agree that this salesperson is just trying to sell points, and what a horrible lie it is.

 

[jwalk03]

Whart are you saying? Every presentation I have ever been to, the salesperson owned at least some amount of timeshare weeks or points. Are you saying they are lying?

I think they ALL lie about owning! Maybe a few of them actually do- but I think most of them lie through their teeth about owning.

 

[dougp26364]

I believe most are own something. I also believe they own the least necessary to say the own. Very few actually know how to utilize what they own or how it really works.