ARDA fees seem to be not voluntary on all of my statements. Let's do a letter-writing campaign via email to Vistana about it. Join me, please!

[TUGBrian]

hopefully if we finally get the ear of someone who can investigate this properly, we can present these facts to them to make a much stronger case!

 

[Eric B]

FYI, @TUGBrian, I believe I've found a more egregious failure to disclose the voluntary ARDA-ROC contribution included in maintenance fee billings. I'm going through the transfer for a resale HGVC ownership at The District and the estoppel lists the amount of the 2023 maintenance fees at exactly $5 higher than the reported fees in the 2023 maintenance fee listing here on TUG for the same unit while the 2023 taxes exactly match between the two. As the 2023 usage is my first year of usage, I'm reimbursing the seller for the 2023 maintenance fees and taxes in conjunction with the purchase. The closing is being accomplished by HGVC and they just provided me with the settlement statement indicating I need to provide that amount as part of the process - I've asked that the extra $5 be removed as I don't desire to make the contribution, but haven't heard back yet.

Bottom line is that HGVC appears to be including the $5 "voluntary" ARDA-ROC contribution in their disclosure of maintenance fees without breaking it out separately and identifying it as a voluntary contribution, which is probably inappropriate as it could form the basis for payments by purchasers similarly situated to me.

Update to this particular experience—they have corrected the amount for the MF/tax reimbursement for my closing to take the $5 off as well as club dues that had been lumped in there, too. I knew to look for the difference because of knowledge gained here on TUG. The estoppel form doesn’t provide a breakdown and they don’t provide any evidence of the costs beyond that.

 

[TUGBrian]

bump on this, I filed my official complaint to the Federal Election Commission this week including the signed/notarized/etc affidavit in writing per their requirements.

we shall see what if anything comes of it.

 

[rickandcindy23]

I am fighting again with Vistana. Just talked to Brandon at Vistana to book weeks for next year and he said I still owe $5.00. It's like that on every contract. This is supposed to be voluntary, not mandatory. If they make me pay it, that makes it mandatory. He booked one week for me without the $5.00 payment, but I didn't want to talk to him anymore, so I got off of the phone rather than arguing about it.

I talked to another person who said he would take the $5.00 off of every week we owned. Apparently, he didn't do that.

I paid 2024 ahead. I always pay my maintenance fees ahead, and I did it for a reason this year. I wanted to get the additional 85K certificate on my Bonvoy Brilliant credit card. It is a nice bonus. I paid Marriott ahead as well. I will probably do that again for 2025 fees.

 

[VacationForever]

Cindy, I swear it must have something to do with your SBP ownership. I have never had an issue not paying the ARDA $5 fee on my Vistana weeks.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Cindy, I swear it must have something to do with your SBP ownership. I have never had an issue not paying the ARDA $5 fee on my Vistana weeks.

I pay a year ahead. The fees I pay ahead get applied to the current year fees. Brandon said I shorted the fees by $5.00. I said, "Where do you think that $5.00 went?" I paid the estimated MF's for 2024 ahead.

I know I will get a bill for 2024 fees because it will be higher, so this is not about that.

Our daughter rents these weeks to supplement her income. This has always been an issue.

Current Year Charges

Maintenance Fee(s) $ 1,161.24

Tax - If Applicable $ 0.00

Membership Fee - If Applicable $ 0.00

Other* $ 0.00

Interest $ 0.00

Late Fees $ 0.00

ARDA ROC PAC Contrib.** $ 5.00

Sub-Total
Current Year Charges $ 1,166.24
Less Payments*** $ 0.00

Total Due $ -1,156.24

Projected Fees for Next Year $ 1,161.24

 

[dioxide45]

Cindy, I swear it must have something to do with your SBP ownership. I have never had an issue not paying the ARDA $5 fee on my Vistana weeks.

The problem is that the projected fees are based on what the last paid fees were. So if the last paid fees included the $5, then the projected next year fee will include that also. When you short it by $5, it will show short $5. If you don't pay the $5 fee when paying your MF bill, then the projected amount excludes the $5 ARDA fee.

I wonder if when the fees go up and there is a balance due in January, if those are shorted by the $5 ARDA fee, if it would remove the problem in years forward.

 

[rickandcindy23]

The problem is that the projected fees are based on what the last paid fees were. So if the last paid fees included the $5, then the projected next year fee will include that also. When you short it by $5, it will show short $5. If you don't pay the $5 fee when paying your MF bill, then the projected amount excludes the $5 ARDA fee.

I wonder if when the fees go up and there is a balance due in January, if those are shorted by the $5 ARDA fee, if it would remove the problem in years forward.

But that is not true. The projected fees do not include the ARDA. So when I pay the projected fees, the $5.00 is taken out of 2024 and added to 2023.

 

[VacationForever]

But that is not true. The projected fees do not include the ARDA. So when I pay the projected fees, the $5.00 is taken out of 2024 and added to 2023.

Cindy, I pay projected fees every year without ARDA fee, because I deposit into II a year before. I have never had the problem that you faced.

 

[rickandcindy23]

I talked to Brandon and then Sandra. Sandra hung up on me after she booked the wrong date and charged me the $5.00. I had to pay it. I always have to pay it.

 

[VacationForever]

I talked to Brandon and then Sandra. Sandra hung up on me after she booked the wrong date and charged me the $5.00. I had to pay it. I always have to pay it.

I wonder if at one point in time you shorted payment of $5 on top of the ARDA fee and hence you are always owing that $5?

 

[TUGBrian]

never got any sort of response or feedback from my official complaint either...

 

[rickandcindy23]

I wonder if at one point in time you shorted payment of $5 on top of the ARDA fee and hence you are always owing that $5?

I am not a stupid person.

 

[Ken555]

never got any sort of response or feedback from my official complaint either...

No surprise. Marriott / MVC management is incompetent at anything other than selling new deeds.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[sponger76]

No surprise. Marriott / MVC management is incompetent at anything other than selling new deeds.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

To be fair, this has been an issue with Vistana long before they were purchased by MVC. But by all means, blame all ills of the timeshare world on MVC...

 

[rickandcindy23]

To be fair, this has been an issue with Vistana long before they were purchased by MVC. But by all means, blame all ills of the timeshare world on MVC...

This problem goes back many years. I pay the ARDA fee regularly, albeit not voluntarily. I am forced to pay it, or I cannot book weeks for the next year.

 

[Ken555]

To be fair, this has been an issue with Vistana long before they were purchased by MVC. But by all means, blame all ills of the timeshare world on MVC...

Yes, it’s been an issue. But who cares? Marriott is in charge now and they suck. They bought Vistana, which includes Vistanas failures, and they haven’t fixed it. So yeah, I blame Marriott. Why wouldn’t you? Or are you just going to defend Marriott regardless?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[dioxide45]

I suspect Cindy's issue impacts less than 0.1% of owners, they aren't going to invest much time or resources trying to fix it.

 

[TUGBrian]

No surprise. Marriott / MVC management is incompetent at anything other than selling new deeds.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

oh i got a response from marriott...I believe I posted it earlier in the thread.

just not from the official complaint I filed with the FEC.

 

[TUGBrian]

I suspect Cindy's issue impacts less than 0.1% of owners, they aren't going to invest much time or resources trying to fix it.

the specific issue she has in that 5 dollar charge impacting her ability to make reservations yes, that likely impacts an extremely small % of owners.

However the larger issue impacts 100% of Vistana owners in that something labeled voluntary contribution, is in fact anything but.

 

[VacationForever]

the specific issue she has in that 5 dollar charge impacting her ability to make reservations yes, that likely impacts an extremely small % of owners.

However the larger issue impacts 100% of Vistana owners in that something labeled voluntary contribution, is in fact anything but.

I don't understand the 2nd sentence. I own voluntary Vistana since 1996 and never have had to pay the $5. I just skip it and it does not prevent me to borrow and deposit the week into II.

 

[HudsHut]

Brian means, that when the contribution in included in the total maintenance fees, and is intentionally set up so that the Owner must "opt-out", many owners are going to accidentally pay the $5, not knowing they may opt out. Then it becomes an automatic contribution to ARDA.

As Cindy described early on, she can reserve 24 months in advance for some of her weeks, and that is where the system is not set up to deal with the deduction of the ARDA $5, two years out. Instead, the system shows her owing $5 for the second year, and blocks her from making her reservation.

 

[rickandcindy23]

I don't understand the 2nd sentence. I own voluntary Vistana since 1996 and never have had to pay the $5. I just skip it and it does not prevent me to borrow and deposit the week into II.

Other companies do not put the ARDA fee in the total for owners to subtract it. It's definitely a voluntary fee that you can add into your payment as an additional add-on.

I copied and pasted my actual maintenance fee detail. This doesn't seem to be a problem with my Westin weeks.

Yes, I should stop paying ahead and wait until I know my account balance is $0. That $5.00 will disappear eventually, until you pay the maintenance fee before the $5.00 has been taken off.

@TUGBrian is right that other owners are paying the fee because they don't subtract it, not that they want to pay it. It shows as voluntary, yet it's added in.

Marriott doesn't do that, so Marriott is not at fault here.

I am never going to get my weeks booked, unless I fork over the $5.00. It hangs over my head. Convincing the people at Vistana that there is a problem is difficult because they say the $5.00 fee gets zeroed out at some point. Well, this is getting to be something I don't want to explain to the nice people who answer the phones and are basically unable to help or understand the issue.

Seems that we have people here who do not understand it. If it's added into the total and you have to subtract it, then you pay the next year's fees ahead (I pay ahead because I have the money in summer, as all of my renters have paid).

I also pay ahead to get the 85,000 bonus night from Marriott (Amex Brilliant). Next year, I want to have the 85,000 points available for a hotel night in Italy that costs a ridiculous amount of money.

 

[sponger76]

Yes, it’s been an issue. But who cares? Marriott is in charge now and they suck. They bought Vistana, which includes Vistanas failures, and they haven’t fixed it. So yeah, I blame Marriott. Why wouldn’t you? Or are you just going to defend Marriott regardless?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

No, I don't defend Marriott regardless. But I don't blindly look for reasons to shower hate on them like some people, which seems to now include you.

I've had my issues with MVC, especially how they've handled adding additional resale purchases on the VSN side lately, and I've posted them publicly here. But I am fair enough to give credit and blame where they are due. They may not have fixed Cindy's issue, but they are not the cause of it. It's not like pre-merger Vistana was all perfect sunshine and roses that could do no wrong and then MVC came along and ruined paradise. Overall, I think MVC's IT/website management is horrible, but at the same time I actually like the MVC website's reservation search function MUCH more than Vistana's.

 

[rickandcindy23]

I like Marriott's better too. I can choose what week I want to book and get a calendar and book the week I need. With Vistana, I own enough weeks that I get a timeout because I choose a date to book, and then it times out while searching for a week. Marriott also lets me book before I pay my MF's for the next year.