Anyone else thinking of dropping out of MVC Destinations program?

[Ron98GT]

The fees to enroll were as follows:

• Single Week Purchased through Marriott $595
• Multiple Weeks Purchased through Marriott $695
• Single Week Purchased Externally $1,495
• Multiple Weeks Purchased Externally $1,995

If you owned multiple weeks and one was external, you paid $1995. Enrolling came with 800 PlusPoints as an incentive to enroll.

The enrollment fee has increased to $2,395 for any and all weeks. So the price increase in June 2012 was not as bad for resale multiple week purchasers as it was for direct purchasers. Those that enroll now get 3780 PlusPoints as an incentive.

The annual fee is $175 for those with less than 6,500 DC points, $215 for those with 6,500 or more. That went up last year, it used to be $165 and $199 respectively.

Thanks Dioxide, that's the numbers that I was/am asking/looking for.

$2,395 + ($215 * 10 years) = $4,545 / 10 years = $454.50/year, additional cost.

Now the skim. Lets say your MF is $1200/year/week = $300/day. If Marriott skims off 1-day/year that's a loss of $300/year.

Now you have $454.50 + $300 = $754.50 additional cost/year to use Marriott points each year for 6 days. Naturally, you can subtract the II fee's out that you would pay for the use of 7-days.

What's also missing from the equation is the cost to buy/rent additional points for that missing day that was skimmed. What would the cost be to buy an additional day at MOC or Ko'olina? I've read that the average price/point is $11.96. So, if someone needed 500 points, that would be $11.96 * 500 = $5,980 for 1-nite?? Am I missing something?

Not trying to argue or start an argument, just looking at the numbers and scratching my head in bewilderment.

 

[m61376]

Ron98GT- Another consideration when looking at the time to recoup the costs of joining is the value of the 3780 plus points you get for joining. If you have travel flexibility, they can be parlayed into a nice vacation. If needed, you can rent a few points to add on.

For example, I had actually joined right before the price went up, having deliberated as to whether or not to join. The ease of point rentals and the potential opportunities there was a big factor in my decision. Anyway, when a few days later the rates went up (only $400 for me since I was enrolling resale weeks), but with 3780 pluspoints good for reservations within 60 days versus the prior 800 pluspoints, I was able to switch my enrollment and pay the higher fee, but get the extra points.

Ultimately, I was able to parlay those points into 3 2BR units in Orlando for 6 nights each, taking advantage of the 40% Marriott discount that was being offered last June. Getaways for that time period were 1K each (admittedly for 7 days versus 6). I landed up only needing 2 units, so rented one on the last minute rental board here, so that offset my enrollment cost a little. So my ~$1800 out of pocket cost was offset by having 2 2BR units at Harbour Lake for 6 nights, for the exact dates my daughter and son-in-law were able to make it. Memories of having four generations together, enjoying our 3 year old grandson at Disney and Sea World: priceless!!

Especially if you utilize those Pluspoints for a Sun-Thurs stay, their value can offset the enrollment cost. Perhaps a 5 night ski vacation, or 5-6 nights in Aruba during Jan. or Feb. (in an OV or OS room that Marriott rents for ~$900 per night when you include taxes). Or multiple units elsewhere during off-peak periods, or if you happen to catch a promotion like I did.

While it is still a sizable outlay in real dollars, I feel that the 3780 Pluspoints almost offsets the enrollment cost. At least I like to rationalize that it did :hysterical:

Just one more comment- while I agree that in many cases the point allocations and the skim are egregious, you can still use your weeks as you always did. The DC just gives you options. So you don't need to add in an additional cost for renting the points that were skimmed so you can get your full week at your home resort. The only time you lose relative value is when you elect to use points, insofar as that you are given less points from your home unit than it would cost to book it. I look at that as a fee for the added flexibility if I want to use it. But I can still use my week as always, or rent it for those weeks which have a higher rental value than point allocation value. But membership gives me the option of renting points from others if I want an additional unit or trip,

 

[Ron98GT]

Ron98GT- Another consideration when looking at the time to recoup the costs of joining is the value of the 3780 plus points you get for joining. If you have travel flexibility, they can be parlayed into a nice vacation. If needed, you can rent a few points to add on.

For example, I had actually joined right before the price went up, having deliberated as to whether or not to join. The ease of point rentals and the potential opportunities there was a big factor in my decision. Anyway, when a few days later the rates went up (only $400 for me since I was enrolling resale weeks), but with 3780 pluspoints good for reservations within 60 days versus the prior 800 pluspoints, I was able to switch my enrollment and pay the higher fee, but get the extra points.

Ultimately, I was able to parlay those points into 3 2BR units in Orlando for 6 nights each, taking advantage of the 40% Marriott discount that was being offered last June. Getaways for that time period were 1K each (admittedly for 7 days versus 6). I landed up only needing 2 units, so rented one on the last minute rental board here, so that offset my enrollment cost a little. So my ~$1800 out of pocket cost was offset by having 2 2BR units at Harbour Lake for 6 nights, for the exact dates my daughter and son-in-law were able to make it. Memories of having four generations together, enjoying our 3 year old grandson at Disney and Sea World: priceless!!

Especially if you utilize those Pluspoints for a Sun-Thurs stay, their value can offset the enrollment cost. Perhaps a 5 night ski vacation, or 5-6 nights in Aruba during Jan. or Feb. (in an OV or OS room that Marriott rents for ~$900 per night when you include taxes). Or multiple units elsewhere during off-peak periods, or if you happen to catch a promotion like I did.

While it is still a sizable outlay in real dollars, I feel that the 3780 Pluspoints almost offsets the enrollment cost. At least I like to rationalize that it did :hysterical:

Just one more comment- while I agree that in many cases the point allocations and the skim are egregious, you can still use your weeks as you always did. The DC just gives you options. So you don't need to add in an additional cost for renting the points that were skimmed so you can get your full week at your home resort. The only time you lose relative value is when you elect to use points, insofar as that you are given less points from your home unit than it would cost to book it. I look at that as a fee for the added flexibility if I want to use it. But I can still use my week as always, or rent it for those weeks which have a higher rental value than point allocation value. But membership gives me the option of renting points from others if I want an additional unit or trip,

The big advantage of TS's.

 

[pipet]

$2,395 + ($215 * 10 years) = $4,545 / 10 years = $454.50/year, additional cost.

Now the skim. Lets say your MF is $1200/year/week = $300/day. If Marriott skims off 1-day/year that's a loss of $300/year.

Now you have $454.50 + $300 = $754.50 additional cost/year to use Marriott points each year for 6 days. Naturally, you can subtract the II fee's out that you would pay for the use of 7-days.

What's also missing from the equation is the cost to buy/rent additional points for that missing day that was skimmed. What would the cost be to buy an additional day at MOC or Ko'olina? I've read that the average price/point is $11.96. So, if someone needed 500 points, that would be $11.96 * 500 = $5,980 for 1-nite?? Am I missing something?

Not trying to argue or start an argument, just looking at the numbers and scratching my head in bewilderment.

Most people would adjust your top equation to $215 (or 175) less $89 (annual DC fee vs annual II fee). Still, there is a lot to make up for. Also, the skim for most resorts is 6-10%, so for most weeks it works out to be less than a day (so for your posted example, $120 would be a more likely amount instead of $300), but there are exceptions to that, too, where the skim is much worse (even more than $300 worse - that's back to dioxide's all skim isn't equal point).

The 3780 bonus points are worth something, certainly like a decent getaway on II. Most people would subtract that out of the cost if they can use it/rent it as m61376 pointed out.

The 11.96/pt is to purchase, and yes, 5980 would be crazy to pay for a night! But you can't even buy in 500pt packages (supposedly) so be ready to spring for at least 1000 pts....

However, the point rental price is substantially different. You can rent points for $0.50-0.60/pt, so a 500 point night would cost around $250 or so, and there are occasionally last minute point sales to be had as well. You'll notice most people on TUG advise to rent points if you need them rather than buy them since they are so expensive to buy but relatively cheap to rent.

Like DanCali said earlier, overall points in the system does not equal overall points awarded, and that's just gravy for Marriott. Even though we can nitpick the numbers, your point stands: converting to DC points results in a small to moderate loss to weeks owners. However, despite that, there still is the example of the exchange I priced out; I can actually come out ahead using DC vs renting or II (due to the leftover points I can rent out). Does Marriott still come out ahead? Absolutely. They get the skim the second I convert, but I only can choose the options available to me if I don't choose to use my week: exchange with II, rent my week out & use the cash to book my week, or use the DC. For most weeks' owners, II gives the best values. Some weeks can rent for exorbitantly high rates, thus renting is almost always the best value. And in particular cases, the DC can work out well when DC points needed are less than rental rates.

The fee savings people talk about are by joining the DC but then using II - a lot! For the example I mentioned before (exchanging 5 lockoffs), here's how that would break down: annual II fee (89) + 10 exchange fees (10*124) + 5 lock-off fees (5*80) = $1729 in fees, all of which would be covered by the one time 2395 fee and an 215 annual DC fee, and that doesn't include any uptrade fees or the value of the 3780 pts. In two years you'd spend $2895 with the DC (joining fee + 2 annual fees), whereas if you did that many trades in II, you'd spend $3458. Obviously the money saved is drastically reduced for those with less holdings/less trades, but that is the math that enticed a lot of people.

We have people on the board who love the DC because they like the booking process (no waiting for II to come thru) & frequently book stays that aren't in the 7 day traditional block. Are they paying a good bit to do that? Yup, but it works for what they want.

Santa just finished eating cookies & drinking milk and the reindeer have had some carrot greens, so off to bed. Merry Christmas!

 

[puckmanfl]

good morning...

Merry Xmas to all... Off to the second half of my traditional Xmas eve 2-11 shift, followed by Xmas day 9-6. Actually, usually pleasant shifts! I get Chanukah off!!! (sometimes)...

Just a couple of points...
not sure how $1200/week equals $300 day in MF
not everyonbe paid $1995 to enroll, although this is TUG, some of us did drink koolaid and purchase retail...and olny $695 to enroll
the 800 points I snagged made it a wash...

Just booked 2 3 bedroom 5 night stays in Tahoe late Jan 2015.... skim or no skim...there is just no way to do this with II, XYZ's ertc. For soem of us, the skim is an acceptable fee for convenience, flexibilty, upgrading size/view...

Best of all, If the math doesn't work..I just do what I did before!!!!

 

[dioxide45]

Early on many people did analysis of whether to join or not simply on the fee savings. If someone owned only a single lock off week and purchased retail they figured that they could recoup their enrollment fee in about two years.

Fee to Enroll $595
DC Annual Fee $175x2=$350
II Membership Savings $89x2=$178
Lockoff Fee Savings $80x2=$160
Exchange Fees $124x4=$496

So for a single week owner that paid $945 to enroll and stay enrolled over two years, they saved $843 over that two year period in fees. Sometime in year three they broke even and would be ahead of the fee game from that point on as long as they continue to use their weeks as weeks the "old" way.

For us, as a resale multi week owner, it worked like this. I will use today's numbers instead of prior lower pricing that we paid. We own two lock off weeks. Our time to break even though was longer due to the higher fees. About four to five years. We still have less than 6,500 DC points, so our annual fee is still $175.

Fee to Enroll $2395
DC Annual Fee $175x4=$700
II Membership Savings $89x4=$356
Lockoff Fee Savings $80x8=$640
Exchange Fees $124x16=$1984

So for us a two week lockoff owner (four weeks of use each year), we paid $3095 to enroll and stay enrolled over four years, we would save $2980 over that four year period in fees. Sometime in year five we would brake even and would be ahead of the fee game from that point on.

Now this doesn't take in the ability to do retrades for no additional exchange fees. So it adds a whole new dimension to exchanging in II. In the past we would try to find the unit and size we wanted before confirming an exchange. Since if we booked in to a studio, trading up to a 1BR would cost us another exchange fee. Now if a studio will work, we will confirm it so we can buy airfare. Then we will watch for an uptrade and do a retrade if a larger (even a 2BR) unit shows up. I recently did three retrades at Ocean Pointe to get the exact unit type that I wanted, there is no way I would have paid an extra $372 to do that without being enrolled.

 

[puckmanfl]

good morning...

It's all very simple....

prior to 2010 I had a very good product...Now, I have a great product with more options...

All I know is that I get a big smile from my TS usage. If MVCD makes a profit, good for them. That's how capitalism works. They make me happy and make money too! Maybe they can hire more people and keep the economy moving forward!!!

Merry Xmas all...

 

[SueDonJ]

There is altogether too much math in this thread - it's supposed to be school vacation!

Seriously, I do understand why some break down the financials into so much detail but for me it's far easier to think in terms of comparing the exchange possibilities of our Weeks between our historical II usage and the DC. We come out on top with the DC because our historical exchanges were never like-for-like (not a knock on II, just a fact of owing non-lockoff 3BR's.) Plus, I'll gladly pay for the convenience and immediacy of booking DC stays along with the expanded usage options of any-day check-ins and any-length stays.

Like Puck says, no doubt Marriott is making money off the DC. Good! If they didn't make money our ownerships would be a lot worse off than they are now.

 

[tschwa2]

good morning...

It's all very simple....

prior to 2010 I had a very good product...Now, I have a great product with more options...

All I know is that I get a big smile from my TS usage. If MVCD makes a profit, good for them. That's how capitalism works. They make me happy and make money too! Maybe they can hire more people and keep the economy moving forward!!!

Merry Xmas all...

The only concern is for those who bought resale after 2010 or if you are a pre 2010 legacy owner but now have to sell. Your resale value for at least 50% of the overall legacy value is now very low and like many other TS a lot of the off season weeks have 0 or negative value. Owners who purchase those weeks now have an ok to good product. Problem is with escalating MF's (95% of 2 br weeks are $1000+ per week which I believe is at least $200 more than ARDA's claim the average 2 br is) now ok may not cut it. If those owners continue defaulting and Marriott can't absorb those weeks into the DC and resell them, then fees are going to keep rising as non enrolled owners won't see any value in owning a Marriott week.

Even if Marriott doesn't let post 2010 weeks owners enroll, for all of the owners sake they need to make sure that all owners find some kind of value in owning a week or the system will be in trouble.

 

[puckmanfl]

good morning...


resale value for any legacy week (with exception of a few elite weeks) is always a dicey proposition. I don't think this has anything to do with DC...
resale value was less than 1/3 of retail in 2010 and remains so now...

p.s MVCD could not care less about value of resale weeks... They are happy to scoop these up via ROFR for pennies on the dollar!!! That's how the Trust will be replenished and stocked...

In 25 years , the vast majority of Legacy weeks will be in the hands of the "evil empire"

 

[Fasttr]

The thing is, Marriott doesn't need Weeks to be enrolled in order to fuel the DC Exchange Company engine. All kinds of inventory - not just enrolled Weeks - can be made available to both Trust and Exchange Members through the EC. Probably their biggest source of inventory is Weeks deposited to II (from both unenrolled and enrolled Weeks Owners,)

Sue....perhaps this is a stupid question, but can you or someone explain how MVC gets weeks from II, which were deposited by non-enrolled owners, back into their hands to put into the Exchange.

 

[puckmanfl]

good evening....

Fastr

pretty simple stuff... MVCD is now a preferred trader with II. They deposit inventory and trade for inventory they need to grant DC requests!!! It works like this... I deposit my Koolina week. There is a DC wait list request for this. MVCD gives them an Oceana Palms winter week from trust, they get the Koolina week and give it to the customer on DC wait list. In the old system MVCD was a passive observer, now an active trading partner...

The initial FAQ's on the 6/2010 release identify II inventory as a source of inventory for DC exchange company...

 

[Fasttr]

good evening....

Fastr

pretty simple stuff... MVCD is now a preferred trader with II. They deposit inventory and trade for inventory they need to grant DC requests!!! It works like this... I deposit my Koolina week. There is a DC wait list request for this. MVCD gives them an Oceana Palms winter week from trust, they get the Koolina week and give it to the customer on DC wait list. In the old system MVCD was a passive observer, now an active trading partner...

The initial FAQ's on the 6/2010 release identify II inventory as a source of inventory for DC exchange company...

Thanks Puck....I didn't realize MVC was an active trader like that in and out of II to help fulfill DC ressie requests. Very interesting.

 

[dioxide45]

Thanks Puck....I didn't realize MVC was an active trader like that in and out of II to help fulfill DC ressie requests. Very interesting.

While they may be an active trader, we don't know how active they really are. I beleive some have done some tests with this. Had an active II request and an active DC waitlist for some Aruba inventory. The II exchange came through first. Meaning the DC program wasn't activly snaping up that II inventory to fulfill a DC waitlist. I think they only go to the II pot if they don't think they will be able to fulfill the request with actual DC deposits or some other means.

 

[jimf41]

In a theoretical world skim exists. I understand how some have come to the conclusion that Marriott gives about 6-7% or so less to the weeks owners in points than they require to reserve. So when GREG T says they are giving you 93 cents on the dollar when you use points he is technically correct. Technically. You can choose any resort you want but the logic of skim as I’ll explain it remains the same. There are 20 weeks in the Silver season at Ocean Pointe. For simplicity I’m going to assume that they only have 1 3bdrm and I am one of the 20 owners in that season. Marriott gives out 4225 DC points for each 3bdr in the silver season for a total of 84,500 points. If all of the owners elected DC points to reserve their week Marriott would require 90,800 points. That’s a surcharge, or skim as some like to call it of 7%. That’s why people like to say you are getting skimmed 7% when you use points.

Lets step out of the theoretical world and get back to reality for a moment. Of those 20 silver weeks Marriott could have divided up their reservation requirement equally and required 4540 points for each week. If they had done that I would have had to agree that skim exists and it really is a serious problem. But they didn’t do that. Here is where we put our feet firmly back on earth and get a grip on reality. What Marriott did is they made the point requirement different for each period in the season, some more than 4540 some less. In effect they created a system of mini seasons through out the year. In the case of a 3bdr Silver unit they charged 5900 points for 8 weeks, 4000 points for 8 weeks and 2900 points for 4 weeks. If every owner converted to points to reserve their week Marriott would come out ahead of the game by 6300 points. That’s more than the most expensive week.

But in the real world that doesn’t happen. The weeks owners who want to reserve one of the 8 weeks that Marriott wants 5900 points for are simply not going to convert to points but are just going to reserve it like they always did. If you subtract those weeks from both sides of the equation you are left with a total 50,700 points they’ve given out but they only require 43,600 points required to reserve the remaining weeks. Marriott just lost 7100 points or a reverse skim of 14%.

The same thing happens up the block at Oceana Palms. The only difference is that only 4 of the Gold weeks can be reserved for less than they give out instead of the 12 at Ocean Pointe.

Unless some Tugger can produce a live body that decided it was a good idea to convert to points and then try to reserve a week that requires more points than were given for the conversion, point skim is a myth. It exists only as a theoretical possibility. Some folks are going to say that they can’t reserve any week in their season with the number of points they were given and therefore Marriott skimmed them. To them I say read the first sentence in this paragraph again. Then go reserve your week like you’ve always done and don’t get skimmed.

I did not discuss how skim works in a Marriott to Marriot trade using points. There is a real possibility of getting skimmed when you do this. The factors and multiple permutations involved in this type of point usage are huge and it’s very difficult to figure out if you won or lost on internal trading in many cases. There is also a lot of subjectivity involved. I suspect that this is where Marriott makes its money back though.

 

[GregT]

Unless some Tugger can produce a live body that decided it was a good idea to convert to points and then try to reserve a week that requires more points than were given for the conversion, point skim is a myth. It exists only as a theoretical possibility.

Jim, your argument is an interesting one, and I don't quibble with the gist of your points.

But I think I'm your live body, and that that theoretical point does play out in actual practice. Like for Like isn't possible in a skimmed world (this was debated heavily at release between the Ko Olina/Waiohai crowd, who thought they had comparable properties, but couldn't trade through DC).

But I'm your live body because I can't take my Week 24 3BR, redeem it for points, and then book a Week 26. Intelligent people will point out that my week 24 is fixed, and therefore I pay a price (13.6%) for the freedom to switch weeks from fixed week to fixed week, and trade my 7 days for 6 days -- but I can counterpoint that a fixed week owner is the perfect example of skimming. No one can dispute that I received 93% on the retail dollar (or 86%) when a fixed week is effectively a season unto itself -- as there are no lower point weeks available to a fixed week owner to average against when trying to understand the logic.

Skimming is an exhausting subject. Marriott implemented it because they could -- and they needed to sell points. They gave two tremendous gifts to legacy owners that counterbalance the insult (IMO) of skimming. 1) the ability to enroll at all and 2) the ability to transfer points. I've always felt that #2 is a very powerful feature of the system and a major reason why I enrolled.

It's interesting to read this thread, and I take a little bit of pride when I read that people talk about how easy it is to rent points, and how it has positively affected their view of the Marriott system.

I am very happy about this -- and happy that Marriott appears to be leaving this feature in place. I've made my peace with skimming (which still blows) and glad that the controversy has simmered.

Best to all,

Greg

 

[DanCali]

Some folks are going to say that they can’t reserve any week in their season with the number of points they were given and therefore Marriott skimmed them. To them I say read the first sentence in this paragraph again. Then go reserve your week like you’ve always done and don’t get skimmed.

I'm afraid this misses the entire point.

Skim has nothing to do with reserving a week at my home resort with points. References to home resort point requirements are there for understanding how many points a week should get in order to be able to do "like for like" trades. Then you get 93 cents on the dollar there is no like for like...

There is altogether too much math in this thread - it's supposed to be school vacation!

I'm pretty sure Marriott do there to do their math diligently... Let's not fault others for doing the same and calling them on hiding this egregious hidden fee (skim).

Sure - figuring it out involves some math. When I did it my jaw dropped like the Genie in Disney's Aladdin!

 

[Ron98GT]

I'm afraid this misses the entire point.

Skim has nothing to do with reserving a week at my home resort with points. References to home resort point requirements are there for understanding how many points a week should get in order to be able to do "like for like" trades. Then you get 93 cents on the dollar there is no like for like...




I'm pretty sure Marriott do there to do their math diligently... Let's not fault others for doing the same and calling them on hiding this egregious hidden fee (skim).

Sure - figuring it out involves some math. When I did it my jaw dropped like the Genie in Disney's Aladdin!

But it does, if Marriott doesn't give you enough points to book/stay a full week at your home resort during your purchased season/color. This part of the skim has been discussed in multiple threads, such as:

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=161415&highlight=skim

I like the math. It helps me to understand the system and put it perspective. Like you said, it could be jaw dropping.

 

[GaryDouglas]

... In 25 years , the vast majority of Legacy weeks will be in the hands of the "evil empire"

When they came up with the DC, my concernes were:
How long would it take for most resorts to be trust owned > 50%?
Will the owner's associations be effectively under Marriott's control at that point?
If so, will they make changes that the owners association once could protect legacy owners from?
Will Maui Ocean Club management not be all that concerned with the continuing rise in maintenace fees (I think the highest) because they know that the trust portion of this is spread out across all trust owners?

I continue to be concerned, but "What Me Worry"...

 

[jtdillian]

400k no-skim

"But I'm your live body because I can't take my Week 24 3BR, redeem it for points, and then book a Week 26. Intelligent people will point out that my week 24 is fixed, and therefore I pay a price (13.6%) for the freedom to switch weeks from fixed week to fixed week, and trade my 7 days for 6 days -- but I can counterpoint that a fixed week owner is the perfect example of skimming"

I was told MVCI has over 400,000 owners (not sure how many are enrolled though!) Let's say that all of them had access to the DC. As I discussed before how many of us would elect our week for DC points and then go back to our home resort in our season but now check in on Tuesday or Wednesday. Looks like GregT would if he could get his beloved week 26 for the same amount of DCpoints he gets for his week 24. If just 1/2 of the 400k owners did this what do you think would happen to the points exchange pool? It would be saturated with owners looking to go to their home resorts. I think the skim is there to avoid this. However my cousin who owns a 7 night Newport Coast 4th of July fixed week can get over 17 week nights in the off season with the points this week can be elected for. I don't think this program was meant to be like for like as it is with Interval but if you have enough points I have seen a ton of availability!

 

[Fairwinds]

But it does, if Marriott doesn't give you enough points to book/stay a full week at your home resort during your purchased season/color. This part of the skim has been discussed in multiple threads, such as:

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=161415&highlight=skim

I like the math. It helps me to understand the system and put it perspective. Like you said, it could be jaw dropping.

I like the math too. By archiving the "perspective" we can decide which way is best for each situation. I don't foresee trading for DC points based on my habits but maybe someday the lure of a faster confirmation will suck me in. In the mean time I'm a happy enrolled owner who save a few bucks on splitting, trading and exchanging for reward points. Hey, after all there is skim or cost to every transaction. Perhaps the biggest one is trading for reward points but I still do it occasionally. You get the biggest bang for your timeshare by reserving and occupying.

 

[jimf41]

but I can counterpoint that a fixed week owner is the perfect example of skimming. No one can dispute that I received 93% on the retail dollar (or 86%) when a fixed week is effectively a season unto itself -- as there are no lower point weeks available to a fixed week owner to average against when trying to understand the logic.

Greg

Not quite so perfect. I'm a fixed week owner at MFC with week 7. I can trade it even up for fixed week 51, I'd lose about 1300 points on fixed week 52 and I'd make between 800 and 2575 on the rest of the weeks in the year.

As to your second point I don't really understand what you are trying to say. If you want to use your fixed week 24 then just reserve it. If you want fixed week 26 then why didn't you buy week 26? If you really want week 26 then go to II and trade for it. I don't see how you see this as an example of skimming.

I'm afraid this misses the entire point.

It doesn't miss the point at all. Unless you think that your point is the only point there is. I'm saying that there are other points of view and I have expressed mine. Some people think that the DC system is a pretty nice enhancement to weeks ownership. You don't and that's fine but yours is not the only point of view.

Marriott's system of assigning points to units is not the fairest or most equitable they could have done IMO. But it does work well of for a lot of owners. I own a 2bdr Plat OS at Ocean Pointe. I use that to get a 2bdrm OS (really an OF if you've ever been there). There is no way those units are equal in my opinion. The fact that I have 200 points left over after I make the trade is silly. But what's done is done. If the system doesn't work for you no one forces you to use it. The only person that can skim you is yourself.

 

[curbysplace]

In a theoretical world skim exists. I understand how some have come to the conclusion that Marriott gives about 6-7% or so less to the weeks owners in points than they require to reserve. So when GREG T says they are giving you 93 cents on the dollar when you use points he is technically correct. Technically.

Legacy owners that bought third-party resale prior to the 6/20/2010 cross-over date saved thousands and thousands of dollars versus developer prices. Even with the original $1,995 DC buy-in for multiple resale weeks Legacy owners still are thousands of dollars ahead and have gained all the options available through the DC to boot! In my case that is all very true thanks to TUG and all of you that post on this site.

And make no mistake about it, the skim is not exclusive to Legacy owners. Trust Point owners are subject to the same skim however it is not so apparent. It seems to me that Trust Point owners pay much more dearly for it than we Legacy owners because of their initial cost per DC point and in most cases their maintenance fees exceed the relative deeded week fees and they don't get all the options we Legacy owners have.

Do I like the fact of the skim? Absolutely not. But like it was said earlier, we should be thrilled and embrace the fact that the Marriott Vacation Club is profitable because it only enhances our owned deeded weeks and ensures MCV maintains the high standards we are accustomed to. If they aren't successful . . .

 

[dadtante]

Been considering dropping- received a bill for "2014 PREMIUM DUES" does anyone know what that's all about? $215.00

 

[dioxide45]

Been considering dropping- received a bill for "2014 PREMIUM DUES" does anyone know what that's all about? $215.00

This bill was actually due on December 10th. Based on the amount, $215, it sounds like you are at least a Premier Owner? With at least 6,500 DC points. This is the annual DC membership fee. The new consolidated fee that covers all other fees within the program; cancellations, II exchange fee, II membership fee, trade for Marriott Reward Points fee, etc.