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Anyone else thinking of dropping out of MVC Destinations program?

There is only a "skim" to weeks owners

I have been a points owner since early 2000 and when Sunterra now Diamond Resorts International (DRI) took over in 2004, I became quite proficient with their use. Marriott has a little twist here and there with the DC program, but it is very similar to DRI.

It's only when you have been in a weeks system that you are concerned with a skim. If you have only bought points from the beginning, the skim means absolutely nothing to you because all you know is that you need a certain amount of points to stay in a particular unit. It is really insignificant in the big scheme of things because as a weeks owner you don't need to use points to stay in your unit anyway for that year's use. So since I own Ko Olina if I reserve it for next year and stay there it's no problem. I reserve it as usual without points. However, if I don't stay there and want to go some place else or I want to use it next year, I would have to go through II. II charges you fees for this. You have to have you II membership and your fee for the exchange. So why is it that everyone makes such a big deal about this "skim" you would have to pay for it one way or another.

One of the beauties of Marriott's program that I don't have with DRI is the renting of points. What is great is that if you do have some extra points left over, is that you can save them and carry them into the new year or rent some additional points to make use of them so you are not leaving anything there. I used the 800 additional points the I was given when I joined the DC program to extend a stay. However, I could have rented just enough points to take advantage of some of the other Marriott DC benefits so as not to use them.

I just think it's very important that people need to understand that the key is the planning of your vacations and to be one step ahead in your plans. Yes, you can waste a lot of points by not knowing what you can and cannot do, but more importantly you can waste points by not having a plan to utilize the points.
 
I'd have to really think about this a bit, but it does sound like the "skim" does actually cost you money. Every time I convert my TS to DC points I'm leaving money on the table. So much for the "savings" over II. It sounds like I'm either paying it to II or Marriott.


So if you have a 2-Bdrm TS, you don't even get a full week worth of points: you didn't pay II but you were skim'd by Marriott. And, although you did'nt have to pay II, you pay'd Marriott thousands up front to join the points system. Plus, you have to pay someone to rent points from them so that you get a full week.

If that 2-Bdrm was a lock-off (L/O), you first lock it off with Marriott and secondly deposit both sides into II. Third, you use both weeks to reserve two TS weeks somewhere (Hawaii?), with a worse case of a studio for a week and a 1-Bdrm for a week. Fourth, you watch II and upgrade each week to two 2-Bdrm's. Did'nt have to dish out thousands to Marriott to join their points system. Did'nt have to pay someone to get points to stay 1-week. Did have to pay II. Did get 2-full-weeks in 2-Bdrm TS's at Ko'olina and WKORV.

Hmmm, less than 1-week vs 2 full weeks in 2-Bdrm TS's.

I'm not picking on you, I just don't get this Marriott point system and never will. I'd like to see Marriott lose enough money so that they revamp the system and go to something more like the HGVC system and open it up to all MVC owners. (I know dream on). In the mean time, I'll keep getting 2-weeks for the price of one MF.


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So if you have a 2-Bdrm TS, you don't even get a full week worth of points: you didn't pay II but you were skim'd by Marriott. And, although you did'nt have to pay II, you pay'd Marriott thousands up front to join the points system. Plus, you have to pay someone to rent points from them so that you get a full week.

If that 2-Bdrm was a lock-off (L/O), you first lock it off with Marriott and secondly deposit both sides into II. Third, you use both weeks to reserve two TS weeks somewhere (Hawaii?), with a worse case of a studio for a week and a 1-Bdrm for a week. Fourth, you watch II and upgrade each week to two 2-Bdrm's. Did'nt have to dish out thousands to Marriott to join their points system. Did'nt have to pay someone to get points to stay 1-week. Did have to pay II. Did get 2-full-weeks in 2-Bdrm TS's at Ko'olina and WKORV.

Hmmm, less than 1-week vs 2 full weeks in 2-Bdrm TS's.

I'm not picking on you, I just don't get this Marriott point system and never will. I'd like to see Marriott lose enough money so that they revamp the system and go to something more like the HGVC system and open it up to all MVC owners. (I know dream on). In the mean time, I'll keep getting 2-weeks for the price of one MF.


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Ron, I am sure you are probably talking off peak times for getting those 2 bedrooms for studios with II. I am also betting that you are not talking about getting those weeks during Christmas, New Year's or Thanksgiving and I know that you are not talking about July or August. I am also sure you are not talking about getting Maui Ocean Club, WkORV, Waohai, or the 2 bedroom South Carolina Marriott timeshares during peak season as well. You will be waiting for a while for your reservation with II to be confirmed while waiting for it to maybe come through you risk booking airline reservations which may need to be altered or you wait and you may need to pay higher fares. With the DC program, I am able to CONFIRM my exchange 13 months out, make my reservations midweek if I would like to ensure the absolute cheapest of fares, extend my stay if I decide, cancel it with no cost and cheaply rent when and if needed to avoid those ever increasing maintenance fees.

Also, since I own in Hawaii, I can get even more time from my one week, since I do get over 4000 points, points paying attention to the size of unit and time I travel. like you did with II except I will have an advantage over you because I will get that exchange over you because I won't be waiting like you will with II.
 
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good morning...

Ron, Carlito


no need for debate here...

The beauty of DC is that is isn't either/or but BOTH. You can play in II, uptrade all day (if open) get 2 weeks for 1 MF and save tons in previous II fees. You can also play in DC (even with skim). For example...to me (fri-sat are meaningless) Thus I can get 8 ski days in 3 bedroom in Tahoe for the price of 7 nights in Orlando. I can mix and match all day long (even cancel) I get exactly the view I rtequest (avoid the II view skim). How do you think Gregt would feel if he traded beloved 6206 and snagged garden view at surf watch???? As Carlito, pointed out..you save real $$$ by adjusting the stay to when the flights are!!!!

DC is just another option for us Legacy folks... MVCD gave us a home run!!!!
 
Gone from DP pgm

I initially bought points but got out of the program this year. My reasons were simple: I did not like the Sunday to Thursday travel (I felt clever when I first began the program but soon realized that I wanted more days but did not want to pay more money for points just to stay weekend days), I became very comfortable with the idea of going to the same resort on a yearly basis, and realize that I can rent points from other members in the event that I want to go to another Marriott location.

I posted before that the DP pgm is similar to a gravitational field: the more mass you have (in this case points) the more pull you'll have in getting what you want. Having only 3k points, I did not have enough to do much "the way I wanted to." The properties that I own are NOT eligible for points since they are post June 2010 purchases.

Marriott TS is a great program when weeks are involved. The points system is simply not a good deal for folks with too few points (<6500 pts would be by position as a minimum to have) but GREAT for those with a lot of points. I can't help but imagine that the math on this program will bare a few facts: if the base of people with too few points (i.e. less than 6500 pts) continues to grow, with the desire to go to a high season place and a very desired spot, and the ability to rent points is not an option, then you will have a lot of folks exiting - like I did.

Therefore, I obviously don't disagree with anyone leaving the DP pgm ... I just feel badly for folks who will be like me in thinking that reservations to desired places can be had.
 
good morning

live4....

I agree 100%...DC points as a stand alone product aren't great. Way pricey, with potential limitations of inventory... I love the program as an adjunct/addition option overlayed on my weeks product....

Weeks , especially resale are a great option as well.... MVCD did make it perfectly clear that poist 2010 weeks would not be DC eligible. They had to, otherwise everyone would have purchased resale weeks as a cheap point entry. I do not limit my DC usage to 5 days... Also have a 7 night stay at 3 bedroom at Kauai Lagoons... also rented some of my points to pay for a week in Greg's 6206....

My next purchase (If I get back in game) will be a resale Mountainside...
 
The dreaded SKIM!

:mad:Not sure how but I would like to start a new post about the skim!

If you think about it who would elect their week for destinations points and then go back to their home resort in their season and pay more points to do so? Nobody!...exactly

I think Marriott did this to force us to reserve our week as we always did in the past!

Think about it how many of us would take the DC points if we could stay at our home resort in our season but now we could check in on Tuesday or Wednesday vs. being forced to check in on weekends when everyone goes and airfare is more expensive or miles are hard to find! How many of you would take advantage of this if it was so? I'm betting a lot. I know I would Aruba is a lot cheaper to fly to during the week. Maybe Marriott doesn't want us to use points to go to our home resort just maybe! :ponder:
 
Skim

Just a brief note about SKIM. When you have purchased Trust points, the skim has already been taken out.....so in effect, when you are billed for the maintenance fee, you are receiving a small benefit in the form of a marginally reduced carrying cost. Perhaps about 7 to 12 %...every year. My 2500 Points in Trust yields the same as having perhaps 2700 that may have remained from a legacy week.
 
:mad:Not sure how but I would like to start a new post about the skim!

If you think about it who would elect their week for destinations points and then go back to their home resort in their season and pay more points to do so? Nobody!...exactly

I think Marriott did this to force us to reserve our week as we always did in the past!

Think about it how many of us would take the DC points if we could stay at our home resort in our season but now we could check in on Tuesday or Wednesday vs. being forced to check in on weekends when everyone goes and airfare is more expensive or miles are hard to find! How many of you would take advantage of this if it was so? I'm betting a lot. I know I would Aruba is a lot cheaper to fly to during the week. Maybe Marriott doesn't want us to use points to go to our home resort just maybe! :ponder:

I used points to stay at my home resort. I did so because I wanted to have an oceanview room instead of the mountain view I own. I usually don't mind the view, but I have friends coming who wanted that experience of an ocean view and I wanted to provide it for them. The DC program makes that easy to do.
 
good morning...

jtdillian....

when you purchased your week, you knew that you were locked into a fri-sun check in with expensive airfares.... MVCD now gives you the option (for a fee/skim) to change your check in to Wednesday. Hypothetically, you are taking a family of 4 for your week in aruba. Let's say you get skimmed 250 pts for a 5000 pts. week. At $0.5o/pt your skim /fee is $125. You now save $100/pp on airfare..saving $400 you win with a savings of $275!!!! Just think of the skim as another exchange fee... every system has an exchange fee...

You have the optiuon of using or not using!!!!
 
:mad:Not sure how but I would like to start a new post about the skim! ...

Oh, please don't! It'd be the worst Christmas present EVER! :D

We've been hashing out The Skim since the day - almost the minute! - the Destination Club was introduced, analyzing it umpteen ways upside-down and backwards. At one point we were threatened that if we talked about it in any unrelated threads then we'd have to be put in time-out. Thankfully that hysteria eventually died down - it's nice to just deal with the residual flareups where/when they happen infrequently.
 
good morning....

wondering if MVCD would have been better off whacking the "skim" and just putting standard exchange/cancellation fees on every DC transaction.... this might have been a more user friendly less regressive tax...The skim really punishes the trader that cashes in one week and tries to get another week with one transaction. It helps me, who cashes in one week pay my skim and make multiple split transactions!!!

Merry Xmas all....
 
What I really want Marriott to do is to relent and let me enroll my post 2010 weeks.

I would jump on that as it would save me a fortune!! :):)

I really don't want some weeks enrolled and not others. The savings on the enrolled weeks are eaten up by the fees for the unenrolled weeks.

Does anyone envision a scenario in which Marriott would relent?
 
Many others like you

What I really want Marriott to do is to relent and let me enroll my post 2010 weeks.

I would jump on that as it would save me a fortune!! :):)

I really don't want some weeks enrolled and not others. The savings on the enrolled weeks are eaten up by the fees for the unenrolled weeks.

Does anyone envision a scenario in which Marriott would relent?

There are many like you who are hoping and praying that their post 2010 weeks will eventually become eligible for the DC program.
 
good morning....

Don't see any such scenario....

Can you imagine the wrath of all the new Trust purchasers when they figure out that they could have entered the program for 1/3 cost???? They had this problem with the old weeks program, but there wasn't much they could do about it. They still can't limit use use of resale weeks as weeks (except for MR trading)..but they can control DC entry....

Every post 201o purchase knew the rules going in....

Only possible scenario is if DC point sales really dry up. They will then require a purchase of new Trust points + a tariff to enroll...
 
I certainly bought into marriott post June 2010(and enjoyed the low,low resale purchase prices too) but that doesn't mean that we can't stop hoping for a holiday season miracle enrollment offer despite the reality that puck correctly notes!
The DC has some great advantages and as someone on the outside looking in, I think the skim is something that can be managed/even avoided with use of all the tools we have available as owners(ie MOD discount for those weekend nights)
Merry Christmas and happy holidays to all!
 
What I really want Marriott to do is to relent and let me enroll my post 2010 weeks.

Does anyone envision a scenario in which Marriott would relent?

Currently, what makes the DC work well accross all MVC resorts is the enrolled weeks that get converted to points and land in the Exchange for all to get at. That's the only way Trust points owners are getting into sold out, or nearly sold out MVC resorts.

The only way I see MVC opening up the window for post 2010 resales to enroll, is if a large quantity of currently enrolled (pre 2010) weeks change hands and therefore become post 2010 resales which cannot again be enrolled without MVC opening up a new window. If the supply of weeks at prime nearly sold out resorts dwindles to a point that it is very difficult to get into those resorts with points, I can see a point that MVC would open up another window. That said, this is also likely why MVC is more agressively snagging weeks via ROFR, so they can control thier own destiny and not get into a situation that they HAVE to open up such a window.

Only time will tell how it will all play out.
 
Ron, I am sure you are probably talking off peak times for getting those 2 bedrooms ...
Except for March/April, true. And I did get a last minute upgrade to a 2-Bdrm from a studio at Ko'olina over spring break (unintentionally booked spring break and won't do it again) this year thru II.

Typically April/May and November/December for Hawaii (Marriott/II, HGVC, and/or RCI Points for HGVC). Although, September is a good time for NYC (HGVC or RCI Points) and Europe (Hotels and/or cruises).
 
Currently, what makes the DC work well accross all MVC resorts is the enrolled weeks that get converted to points and land in the Exchange for all to get at. That's the only way Trust points owners are getting into sold out, or nearly sold out MVC resorts.

The only way I see MVC opening up the window for post 2010 resales to enroll, is if a large quantity of currently enrolled (pre 2010) weeks change hands and therefore become post 2010 resales which cannot again be enrolled without MVC opening up a new window. If the supply of weeks at prime nearly sold out resorts dwindles to a point that it is very difficult to get into those resorts with points, I can see a point that MVC would open up another window. That said, this is also likely why MVC is more agressively snagging weeks via ROFR, so they can control thier own destiny and not get into a situation that they HAVE to open up such a window.

Only time will tell how it will all play out.

The thing is, Marriott doesn't need Weeks to be enrolled in order to fuel the DC Exchange Company engine. All kinds of inventory - not just enrolled Weeks - can be made available to both Trust and Exchange Members through the EC. Probably their biggest source of inventory is Weeks deposited to II (from both unenrolled and enrolled Weeks Owners,) but they can also get their hands on Weeks exchanged for Marriott Rewards Points, un-booked Weeks, Weeks in arrears for MF's, DC Club Dues, mortgages, etc.

I have no idea if/when they'll open up the enrollment option to post-6/20/10 (and post-6/18/12 Euro) resale Weeks but no doubt if it happens, it'll be at a steeper price than what's in effect now. And no doubt either that if it happens, it'll happen the exact same way it did on 6/20/10 with no lead time - "as of today, external resales purchased prior to today may be enrolled …" It wasn't a mistake or something they overlooked when they announced the way they did, it was by design so that people wouldn't raid the eBay coffers to buy up rockbottom-priced inventory that could be enrolled, or, that would be considered instead of a Points purchase.
 
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I simply don't see MVCI opening up enrollment to post 6/20/10 and 6/18/12 weeks, at least not in how you would enroll a pre 6/20 or 6/18 week. The goal of any ability to enroll a week will be to sell new trust points. So I see them going the re-qualifying route kind of like Starwood does. So for a minimum new trust point purchase, you can enroll your week. Or perhaps convert your week to permanent trust points. What that minimum is, who knows. It could be a set price like $20K, or you may have to buy an equal amount of trust points. So if your week is worth 4,000 points, then you buy 4,000 trust points and you can enroll your week.

As others have pointed out, they really don't need the inventory at this time. They have many sources that they can get inventory from and it seems that many people are converting to points.

I am not sure how many people are selling pre 06/20 weeks that are enrolled. I am sure there are many. I for one will do everything and anything I can to not sell our two enrolled weeks. Enrolled weeks to us simply are too valuable.
 
So since I own Ko Olina if I reserve it for next year and stay there it's no problem. I reserve it as usual without points. However, if I don't stay there and want to go some place else or I want to use it next year, I would have to go through II. II charges you fees for this. You have to have you II membership and your fee for the exchange. So why is it that everyone makes such a big deal about this "skim" you would have to pay for it one way or another.

It's true you pay one way or another, but in many cases, the DC fee is MORE costly than II. Let's say I want to trade my Waiohai for a summer 2BR summer week in Maui week. Even with my points for Ocean View, I'd still be 375 pts short to get the lowest view category in Maui, so there is essentially a $187.50 exchange fee if I use DC to get to Maui, and I still have to pay the annual DC fee. If I go through II, Waiohai *will* pull a summer week no problem (and sometimes people luck out with a better view category), and I'd only pay $124, and an annual II fee is much cheaper than the annual DC fee. There are more extreme examples of the DC point exchanges that can result in even higher exchange fees than my example (it's just one that I've paid particular attn to!). Of course, enrolling in the DC & then using II is a different approach that avoids skim because you never convert (and saves $ for people esp with lock-offs, etc), but my example is to address the inherent skim part when using points.

If you as a KoOlina owner want to trade for HI properties, you'll also find yourself short in most cases.

However, as I mentioned in an earlier post, I'll modify how I make travel plans for each week on an individual basis & make the best out of the system. I fall solidly in the anti-skim camp, but since my other week is a lock-off, I joined for II fee savings (which back to OP, I agree w/o a lock-off it's much harder to save) and the occasional time when DC (even with the skim) might give me more than II (esp true if I can't use AC/XYZ).

Also, for those on the outside looking in, don't forget you can still rent points from those already in the system...
 
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If the skim is the exchange fee, why does the amount of skim vary so wildly for different weeks? Some owners are only paying hundred or so points while some others are paying close to a thousand? Is it because they figured people whose weeks garnered more points would break there weeks up more?

The only thing I really don't like about the skim is that there is no transparency. What is MVCI really doing with the points? It doesn't seem like they are renting them out to earn income to cover our housekeeping costs due to the short stays? They are not forthcoming in any way as to what the skim is for, why it exists, or what they are doing with the surplus inventory that comes out of it.
 
It's true you pay one way or another, but in many cases, the DC fee is MORE costly than II. Let's say I want to trade my Waiohai for a summer 2BR summer week in Maui week. Even with my points for Ocean View, I'd still be 375 pts short to get the lowest view category in Maui, so there is essentially a $187.50 exchange fee if I use DC to get to Maui, and I still have to pay the annual DC fee. If I go through II, Waiohai *will* pull a summer week no problem (and sometimes people luck out with a better view category), and I'd only pay $124, and an annual II fee is much cheaper than the annual DC fee. There are more extreme examples of the DC point exchanges that can result in even higher exchange fees than my example (it's just one that I've paid particular attn to!). Of course, enrolling in the DC & then using II is a different approach that avoids skim because you never convert (and saves $ for people esp with lock-offs, etc), but my example is to address the inherent skim part when using points.

If you as a KoOlina owner want to trade for HI properties, you'll also find yourself short in most cases.

However, as I mentioned in an earlier post, I'll modify how I make travel plans for each week on an individual basis & make the best out of the system. I fall solidly in the anti-skim camp, but since my other week is a lock-off, I joined for II fee savings (which back to OP, I agree w/o a lock-off it's much harder to save) and the occasional time when DC (even with the skim) might give me more than II (esp true if I can't use AC/XYZ).

Also, for those on the outside looking in, don't forget you can still rent points from those already in the system...


Being one of those outside looking in, MAY I ask how much you paid to join DC (if that's the correct way to phrase it?) using your Waiohai week? And how much do you pay annually?

When talking about saving money on II fees, the 2 preceding fees must be taken into consideration.

thanks,



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Being one of those outside looking in, MAY I ask how much you paid to join DC (if that's the correct way to phrase it?) using your Waiohai week? And how much do you pay annually?

When talking about saving money on II fees, the 2 preceding fees must be taken into consideration.

thanks,



Sent from my iPad Retina using Tapatalk

The fees to enroll were as follows:

  • Single Week Purchased through Marriott $595
  • Multiple Weeks Purchased through Marriott $695
  • Single Week Purchased Externally $1,495
  • Multiple Weeks Purchased Externally $1,995

If you owned multiple weeks and one was external, you paid $1995. Enrolling came with 800 PlusPoints as an incentive to enroll.

The enrollment fee has increased to $2,395 for any and all weeks. So the price increase in June 2012 was not as bad for resale multiple week purchasers as it was for direct purchasers. Those that enroll now get 3780 PlusPoints as an incentive.

The annual fee is $175 for those with less than 6,500 DC points, $215 for those with 6,500 or more. That went up last year, it used to be $165 and $199 respectively.
 
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When talking about saving money on II fees, the 2 preceding fees must be taken into consideration.

Sent from my iPad Retina using Tapatalk

Ron98GT, trust me, I am not a Marriott apologist, and I understand why you don't like the DC program; I don't see it as all-wonderful, either. I see some pros, but I also see the cons. I agree 100% with what dioxide said; there is no transparency to the skim. I'll believe it helps with housekeeping costs for short-stays when I see a line-item credit on the budgets at our resorts. Until I learn differently, I see the skim as simple profit for Marriott. Since you also have HGVC, I'm envious of how streamlined that system seems in comparison.

If I had only my Waiohai week, I would not have enrolled. I love the Waiohai, but if I want to make alternate plans, I know I can rent it out or arrange a private trade (I've done both thanks to TUG). However, I do have a lock-off, but since I only have one of those, it will take me longer than many to recoup my fees. Considering my usage patterns and counting all annual fees, signup fees, and bonus points, it might take me up to 10 years to break even, which is not great, and because of that, I vacillated for a long time before signing up. What pushed me over to do it? Eventually, I believe I will save. I'll probably take advantage of re-trades more which might lead to some nicer scores, especially with my studio side. It also is ridiculously easy to rent out points (not that renting a week is hard, but points can be even less work).

There are also some transactions that I can make & end up coming out ahead faster, even if I exchange my beloved Waiohai for points and add to Marriott's bottom line. For example, say I want to use my week to stay at a resort that rents for a higher amt than the cost would be in DC points. In those cases, I'm better off converting to points than renting out my week to get the week I want. Yes, I could also accomplish that in II; I'd get the week plus an AC/XYZ. However, in DC, I'd still have leftover DC points that could be rented, and then I'd have cash to use for airfare, etc; that's more useful to me than an AC (it's rare that I can take advantage of one :bawl:). Again, I fully understand Marriott made $ on that transaction, but my own bottom line will turn out better, too. Most lower valued weeks would not be able to pull that off; I know I couldn't with my lock-off - II is the place for it!

Those on this board with many more weeks than I have are the ones who really can recoup their costs in a relatively short time: if someone has 5 weeks of lock-offs, think of how many lock-off & exchange fees they might have (not to mention re-exchange fees). Someone in that situation might break even in a couple of years.
 
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