Amex Hilton Changes

[frank808]

can you get a second SUB for the second Aspire?

what she really needs is a daily spend card

No SUB for the second Aspire. But like i mentioned ask Amex. I read somewhere that if youvhave the higher Amex that if you apply for a lower card the SUB will not apply.

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[HuskerATL]

We still have the aspire for our Hilton spend but I just signed up for the Amex platinum card. Thought process is I have the timeshare for my stays and can use the platinum to get miles to pay for some of the flights. What are you guys doing for the flights?

We have the Amex Plat also but don't use it as a spender. It isn't a good spender and the points you get don't help much for flights other than the credit we use it for the other perks and lounge access but don't really spend on it.

If you fly Delta, then the Amex Delta Reserve is better and comes with a free companion ticket.

We use the Amex Blue preferred for our daily spender.

 

[frank808]

You can add the Surpass though, since it is cheaper then the Aspire and gets a FNC for $15k

We will have 4 FNC for next year between two Aspires and a Surpass.

I should have said, if you can use the airline and resort credit benefits, then having Aspire is the better card than Surpass. You do not have to spend 15K a year to get the FNC. I really only use my Aspires for Hilton spend like MF payments and to get the airline credits.

My annual HGVC MF payment is to a resort that qualifies for the $400 resort credit, so the $1600 is easily used. I can easily use the $200 a quarter airline credit so no problem there($800 a year to United. So I make $200 a year ($400 resort credit + $200 airline credit for $550 AF) and get four free FNC annually from the Aspire card for no extra spend. I used to put the $15k spend a year on the Hilton Amex Business card and get another FNC. So for my $30K annual spend and $240 net annual fee payment ($120 a year Hilton Business Amex card), receive 6 FNC.

AMEX now charges $195 AF for the Hilton business card. But you get $60 a quarter for Hilton spend. So I still have it as we still benefit $45 a year per card. Though not having the FNC is making me look to product change this card to the Amex Marriott business one.

From my view, it is still more advantageous to have 4 free FNC from Aspire cards. Than having to spend $30K annually to get the same 4 FNC with two Aspire and two Surpass cards, but YMMV. Having to spend the same $30K and getting 6 FNC was the best but Amex killed the Hilton Business Amex card.

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[HuskerATL]

I should have said, if you can use the airline and resort credit benefits, then having Aspire is the better card than Surpass. You do not have to spend 15K a year to get the FNC. I really only use my Aspires for Hilton spend like MF payments and to get the airline credits.

Yes, we have two Aspire and get two FNCs from them but then also a Surpass, that is a lot cheaper, and the $15k spend since we would spend anyway so that gives us another FNC and then we get a $30k spend FNC on the Aspire and may have another.

 

[letsgobobby]

Think this will be our strategy. Shoot it down if I'm missing something.

His CSR - for Chase lounges and access to 1.5% Chase travel redemption: his daily spend except per below

Her Surpass - for SUB, quarterly Hilton credit: her daily spending except per below, and especially for online spending, up to $15k per year

His Surpass - ditto, so total $30k pa

His/hers Aspire - for all HH/HGVC benefits

Verizon - 4% gas and groceries

his/hers Alaska - BOGO ticket , we also buy all AS tickets for travel benefits except for mine since I am already elite

his/hers Discover - quarterly bonus categories but we find these are less and less useful especially given the rate of return of gas, groceries, restaurants, travel categories especially for the Surpass card up to $15k pa per card for the FNCs

his Citi AA MC Elite - for AS/AA lounge access and AA travel benefits

 

[Monkeyboy]

We have the Amex Plat also but don't use it as a spender. It isn't a good spender and the points you get don't help much for flights other than the credit we use it for the other perks and lounge access but don't really spend on it.

If you fly Delta, then the Amex Delta Reserve is better and comes with a free companion ticket.

We use the Amex Blue preferred for our daily spender.

We are mainly flying Hawaiian and Alaska. We both have the Alaska and Hawaiian cards. We signed up for the Amex platinum 170K bonus if we spend 8K in 6 months. if I am right that will get us 4 RT tickets on Hawaiian. So maybe I should downgrade it or cancel it next year.

 

[WaikikiFirst]

I'm not a CC deep-thinker. For someone who has HGVC MFs to easily get the $400 credit(s) what scenario, what chain of math, would make the Surpass superior to 1 or 2 or heck I guess even 3 Aspires?
(I just realized from this thread that we could get $1600/yr in credit for $1600/yr HGVC MFs. Had never played that out in my head before. Ha. and I'm not sure how many CCs I could juggle without getting lost)
(and in addition to the CREDIT, aren't the # of HH Pts you get on your MFs higher with Aspire than with Surpass?)

did bit of reading; is this it? "6X HH points per $ spent @ U.S. supermarkets & 4X on U.S. online"
did a bit of thinking; if I guesstimate an extra 2 HH pts per $ on $10K/yr, that is worth < $200/yr (maybe about $140/yr?). But Aspire has $400/yr Hilton credit vs only $200 for Surpass. So getting the extra HH pts doesn't compensate for losing $200 of credit, or at best it is a wash. Did I screw that up?
Then I get annual FNC automatically with Aspire, right? But I have to spend $15K/yr to get one with Surpass?
I get Diamond status with Aspire vs only Gold with Surpass, right?

 

[Monkeyboy]

Think this will be our strategy. Shoot it down if I'm missing something.

His CSR - for Chase lounges and access to 1.5% Chase travel redemption: his daily spend except per below

Her Surpass - for SUB, quarterly Hilton credit: her daily spending except per below, and especially for online spending, up to $15k per year

His Surpass - ditto, so total $30k pa

His/hers Aspire - for all HH/HGVC benefits

Verizon - 4% gas and groceries

his/hers Alaska - BOGO ticket , we also buy all AS tickets for travel benefits except for mine since I am already elite

his/hers Discover - quarterly bonus categories but we find these are less and less useful especially given the rate of return of gas, groceries, restaurants, travel categories especially for the Surpass card up to $15k pa per card for the FNCs

his Citi AA MC Elite - for AS/AA lounge access and AA travel benefits

I will look into chase next year. I buy my tickets with either Alaska or Hawaiian cards then do the upgrades with my Amex to get the $50.00 credits.

 

[HuskerATL]

For the overview of the cards:
Surpass:
$150 annual fee
- 12x HH points for Hilton spending
- 6x HH restaurants, gas, supermarkets
- 4x HH online retail purchases
- 3x other stuff
- $200/year Hilton credits
- $15k spend for FNC

Aspire:
$550 annual fee
- 14x HH for Hilton spending
- 7x HH for flights/car rentals
- 3x HH other stuff
- $400/year Hilton credit
- Diamond HH
- Free FNC
- $30k and $60k spend for more FNCs
- $200 flight credit
- $199 Clear credit
- $100 property credit (resorts booked through Amex)
- other little stuff

For us, we have:
He: Aspire and Surpass
Her: Aspire
Joint: Platinum and Preferred Blue
Son: Surpass

What we will get this year:
Annual spend for he/her: $1,150
Annual spend Son: $150

The Amex Plat is $695 annual spend
- 5x on amex travel
- 5x on hotels/flights
- 1x other spending
- Lounge access (centurion, Delta, and PP)
- $200 airline credit
- $240 digital entertainment credit (this pays for our Disney/Hulu/Espn+ bundle and Peacock)
- $199 Clear credit (we use this for our son)
- $200 hotel credit (for higher end hotels booked through amex)
- $100 Saks credit ($50/half year...so wife gets a new pair of underwear each 6 months... )
- Free Walmart + which comes with Paramount +...which we use more than Walmart + but it is free
- $200 uber cash...we typically use this for Uber Eats

Preferred Blue is a $95 annual card but cash back
- 6% at supermarkets
- 6% for streaming services (we use this for a couple of our streaming services that we actually pay for)
- 3% gas stations

Benefits
- $1,200 MF credit
- 4 FNCs (2 free with the Aspires, one $15k earned with the Surpass, one $30k earned with the Aspire..maybe two earned with the Aspire we will see but 4 FNCs for sure)
- Diamond HH but we already have it for being Elite Premier
- $400 flight credits
- Free Clear for the whole family since I have status with Delta, I get a discount on Clear so my Aspire covers myself and one son, my wife's Aspire covers hers, and our Amex Platinum covers our other son
- Bunch of HH points from spending and MFs...the Surpass 6x HH for restaurants and such are better than the Aspire for earning HH
- we use all the Amex Plat benefits but don't use it as a spender
- we use the Amex Preferred Blue as a daily spend and get cash back.

If you go the route of another Aspire, instead of the Surpass,
- yes you get another FNC, but we spend money anyway so getting the $15k with the Surpass is easy.
- We would get an additional $200/year in MF credits
- the additional flight and Clear credits (but we don't need any more clear credits so that doesn't do us any good. We would use the flight credits though)
- So far, it isn't worth the additional $400/year versus spending $15k on the Surpass that we would do anyway.

 

[frank808]

With an Aspire, you get additional $200 in flight credits and $200 more in Hilton Resort credits. Essentially a wash compared to Surpass. Both cards earn $50 annually after subtracting resort and airline credits. The upfront AF doesn't not matter to me as credits has Amex paying me $50 annually. Except Aspire gets FNC without the $15K spend with Surpass.

I can put that 15K spend on another card with 3% cash rebate for dining for $450 back. The only category Surpass gets more HH points than Aspire.

Aspire plus 3% dining rebate card earns $450 vs Surpass earning 45000 more HH points for dining (Surpass earns 6 points vs 3 for Aspire).

I will take the $450 over 45K more HH points. Just my calculation in having 2 Aspires vs 1 Aspire/1 Surpass.

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[frank808]

I'm not a CC deep-thinker. For someone who has HGVC MFs to easily get the $400 credit(s) what scenario, what chain of math, would make the Surpass superior to 1 or 2 or heck I guess even 3 Aspires?
(I just realized from this thread that we could get $1600/yr in credit for $1600/yr HGVC MFs. Had never played that out in my head before. Ha. and I'm not sure how many CCs I could juggle without getting lost)
(and in addition to the CREDIT, aren't the # of HH Pts you get on your MFs higher with Aspire than with Surpass?)

did bit of reading; is this it? "6X HH points per $ spent @ U.S. supermarkets & 4X on U.S. online"
did a bit of thinking; if I guesstimate an extra 2 HH pts per $ on $10K/yr, that is worth &lt; $200/yr (maybe about $140/yr?). But Aspire has $400/yr Hilton credit vs only $200 for Surpass. So getting the extra HH pts doesn't compensate for losing $200 of credit, or at best it is a wash. Did I screw that up?
Then I get annual FNC automatically with Aspire, right? But I have to spend $15K/yr to get one with Surpass?
I get Diamond status with Aspire vs only Gold with Surpass, right?

I am of the same thought in getting 2 Aspires vs 1 Aspire&1 Surpass.

If your HGVC resort MF does not qualify for the rebate, having 4 Aspires is moot. Also if your maintenace fee and resort spend is less than $1600 a year, having 4 Aspires is moot.

I would get 3 Aspires per person if possible. I tried many years ago for a third Aspire but Amex said 2 Aspires is max. So got a Hilton Business Amex instead.

I love getting paid $50 and a Free Night Certificate per Aspire card annually. What other credit card gives you a $50 bill and a free night at a hotel? Whatever Aspire ancillary benefits received is icing on the cake. Hilton Honors Diamond Status, annual Clear credit, etc.

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[WaikikiFirst]

If you go the route of another Aspire, instead of the Surpass,
- yes you get another FNC, but we spend money anyway so getting the $15k with the Surpass is easy

Thanks Frank. Thanks Husker. I seem to be in the ballpark. Devil & details seem to not be hiding much. Here is what I didn't mention:
" we spend money anyway so getting the $15k with the Surpass is easy" ... in recent years, whenever we travel to Asia or Europe, we seem to be able to turn 60K airline miles into a R/T biz-class ticket that might cost $3K. So, my wife would rather put the $15K into airline miles and I can't blame her since it is possible to say that $15K spend gets us $750 in return (15/60 = 25% & 25% of $3K = $750). non-math version Go ahead. Try to take your wife's airline CC away from her. Go ahead.
Too late right now to add an Aspire and have it ready for Q4 MFs I'd say. But by late 2025 we can use another FNC and another 170K or whatever SUB HH pts, so maybe next Sept, I'll prob add another Aspire.

 

[frank808]

Your strategy is what I am doing. There are other cards that provide me a better return on the $15K spend than 45K HH points.

The best strategy before Amex changed the terms was having a Business Hilton Amex card. The prior terms were getting FNC for $15K spend and an annual fee of $95. I valued the FNC more than the $395 ($300 rebate at 2% for general spending+$95 AF) this cost. This gave us a total of 6 FNC a year (wife and I each have 2 Aspires and a Hilton Business Amex) that we would use for minimum $700 a night hotels. Instead of 2 or 3 nights we would use FNC for almost a full week at a luxury property.

Before the FNC were good everyday of the week, FNC were only good Fri to Sunday. We would book Mon-Fri with HH points for the book 4 nights get the 5th night free promo. Then use the FNC for Saturday and Sunday. A whole week at Grand Wailea for under 400K HH points. This let us stay at Grand Wailea for up to 3 weeks a year. These rooms were going for at least $600 plus taxes a night. This was before the Maui Bay Villas was built. Now we just use our HGVC points for Maui.

If you already have an Aspire, you will not get another SUB for getting the second one.

Strategy many years ago was to get a Surpass(or whatever the card was called many years ago) first and receive the SUB. Apply for an Aspire after that to get the Aspire SUB. Then a year later, product change the second tier Surpass Amex card to the top tier Aspire card. That way you get both SUB.


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[HuskerATL]

$15K spend than 45K HH points.

The $15k on the Surpass is for the FNC and the HH is gravy. The $150 Annual fee is covered by the Hilton credits so you get free Waldorf night of your choosing...up to about a $2k/ night room for spending that you would do otherwise.

I agree if you only want 1 card, then the Aspire is the way to go. I am not convinced two Aspires are better than an Aspire and a Surpass though but it depends on the other mix of your cards and the benefits that you would use. A third Aspire doesn't deliver enough usable benefits for us, since I have one and so does my wife.

 

[HuskerATL]

Saw this and thought of our discussion

16 Best Ways To Redeem a Hilton Free Night Certificate

Interested in getting a free night with Hilton or have a free night certificate? Check out this guide for the complete scoop of this perk!

upgradedpoints.com

 

[ljmiii]

I agree if you only want 1 card, then the Aspire is the way to go. I am not convinced two Aspires are better than an Aspire and a Surpass...

Indeed. We only had the Surpass until AMEX/Hilton changed the benefits of both cards to make them more complementary. We've kept the Surpass for the $15K FNC, $50 Hilton credits, 6x bonus on Gas and Groceries, and 4x bonus on web purchases and added the Aspire for the automatic Diamond and FNC, 14x on Hilton spend, and $200 biannual resort credits (which apply to HHV's MFs).

 

[WaikikiFirst]

If you already have an Aspire, you will not get another SUB for getting the second one

a spouse can get the 2nd SUB, right?
bizarre world: our Aspire is in my wife's name. Amex REFUSED me. Wild stuff. I could walk inot a bank and get a loan for, well, lots of money. LOTS. But they refused me on a dinky CC. So my wife got it. I think they refused me b/c I had just cancelled another CC and added another CC, and I blazed my way thru the applctn, saying iirc "I'm retired. I have no income. I don't really spend a huge amount of $$$."
I didn't pay any attention. Who would refuse someone with an 800 score and the amount of assets I have? WHo? Amex. That is who.

 

[HuskerATL]

a spouse can get the 2nd SUB, right?
bizarre world: our Aspire is in my wife's name. Amex REFUSED me. Wild stuff. I could walk inot a bank and get a loan for, well, lots of money. LOTS. But they refused me on a dinky CC. So my wife got it. I think they refused me b/c I had just cancelled another CC and added another CC, and I blazed my way thru the applctn, saying iirc "I'm retired. I have no income. I don't really spend a huge amount of $$$."
I didn't pay any attention. Who would refuse someone with an 800 score and the amount of assets I have? WHo? Amex. That is who.

I don't know the Amex weighting scale for acceptance but they may have a heavier weight on CC transitions... trying to reduce SUB grabs.

 

[frank808]

The $15k on the Surpass is for the FNC and the HH is gravy. The $150 Annual fee is covered by the Hilton credits so you get free Waldorf night of your choosing...up to about a $2k/ night room for spending that you would do otherwise.

Exactly my point. Do not take into account the annual fee. Both Aspire and Surpass you get $50 more a year if you use all the credits available to each card. Making the annual fee irrelevant. Aspire you pay $550 AF and get $600 in credits. Surpass you pay $150 AF and get $200 in credits.

You get a FNC with Aspire without the $15K spend. Spend that $15K with another card that gives you 2% for everyday spend and get FNC plus $300. Versus spending the same $15K on a Surpass card to get FNC and 45K HH points.

Surpass with $15K spend, gets you a FNC and 45K HH points (3 HH points per dollar for everyday purchases).

Aspire gets FNC. Take that same $15K spend and use a card offering 2% back and get $300.

Both cards get you one FNC. But would you rather have 45K HH points(Surpass) or $300 back(Aspire plus citibank double cash card)?

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[frank808]

a spouse can get the 2nd SUB, right?
bizarre world: our Aspire is in my wife's name. Amex REFUSED me. Wild stuff. I could walk inot a bank and get a loan for, well, lots of money. LOTS. But they refused me on a dinky CC. So my wife got it. I think they refused me b/c I had just cancelled another CC and added another CC, and I blazed my way thru the applctn, saying iirc "I'm retired. I have no income. I don't really spend a huge amount of $$$."
I didn't pay any attention. Who would refuse someone with an 800 score and the amount of assets I have? WHo? Amex. That is who.

Yes, if you are not the primary an Aspire, you will qualify for the SUB. If you are the primary of Aspire, you will not qualify for SUB when getting your second Aspire card.

Might want to check Amex rules regarding SUB. If you already have Aspire as primary, I have read that when you apply for Surpass Amex, will not give you the SUB for it. That new rule is maybe a little over a year old. I haven't researched further because I already have two Aspires as primary. One Aspire was product changed from Surpass to get both SUB originally years ago.

Not just Amex. I do not qualify with Barclay's bank or Bank Of America for credit card. They do not like my profile. Also 800+ with excellent credit, low credit utilization, no negative marks on report, good assets, etc. But Amex, Chase, Citi, Wells Fargo, Navy Fed, etc approves credit cards with high enough credit lines to purchase a new Tesla if I want to. Some banks do not like certain credit profiles and i dont know why.

While wife has credit cards from Bank of America and Wells Fargo

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[HuskerATL]

Surpass with $15K spend, gets you a FNC and 45K HH points (3 HH points per dollar for everyday purchases)

Surpass is a higher HH for some items though and would have a bit more HH points:
- 6x HH restaurants, gas, supermarkets
- 4x HH online retail purchases
- 3x other stuff

So better then the Aspire for the 6x items but worse for Hilton 12x versus 14x.... But I get you point.

We use the Amex Preferred blue for our daily spender, except groceries and gas where it is mostly at Kroger and the Kroger card for fuel points.

 

[frank808]

Saw this and thought of our discussion

16 Best Ways To Redeem a Hilton Free Night Certificate

Interested in getting a free night with Hilton or have a free night certificate? Check out this guide for the complete scoop of this perk!

upgradedpoints.com

I am lucky to have used the FNC at Grand Wailea which is a cheap $29 one way flight for me. Love using them for a full 6 day stay. Then moving to Maui Bay Villas or MVC properties on Maui.

Will strive to use FNC at Waldorf Maldives one day.

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[HuskerATL]

We used two of ours at the Waldorf Cabo last summer and will be looking at the Seychelles and Maldives next. We are moving to Addis Ababa and there is a 4 hour direct flight to the Seychelles plus very short flights to Cairo, Dubai, Maldives, Zanzibar, Madagascar, safari trips, and a bit longer flight to Cape Town... So much to explore. The lodging through DEX EU, registry collection, etc. plus Hilton chains will come in handy.

 

[Reddart]

You get a FNC with Aspire without the $15K spend. Spend that $15K with another card that gives you 2% for everyday spend and get FNC plus $300. Versus spending the same $15K on a Surpass card to get FNC and 45K HH points.

Well, depending on the value/pt and what your spend categories are.

I keep track of my HH point earnings and redemptions. Doing some “Hilton” math, since I use the Surpass for online,gas, and groceries, @4.5pt/dollar spend average, I would get 67,500HH points. My actual average $/pt redemption in 2024 was $0.00745, which would be about $500 in hotel stays (based on the cash rate for the rooms). So I got a FNC and $500 worth of hotel stays.

This works if your travel style can take advantage of good redemption values.

 

[HuskerATL]

Well, depending on the value/pt and what your spend categories are.

I keep track of my HH point earnings and redemptions. Doing some “Hilton” math, since I use the Surpass for online,gas, and groceries, @4.5pt/dollar spend average, I would get 67,500HH points. My actual average $/pt redemption in 2024 was $0.00745, which would be about $500 in hotel stays (based on the cash rate for the rooms). So I got a FNC and $500 worth of hotel stays.

This works if your travel style can take advantage of good redemption values.

The Kroger card reduces our grocery/gas use for our Surpass... The Kroger card is great for the cost but they just sent a letter that starting Jan 1, 2026 they will be stopping the 25 cents per gallon discount with the card... The grocery shopping point discount will still be there but losing the 25 cents is a big change.